OT: Is LeBron Still the Best?

[superjohn]

Kobe was a lifer for 20 years who, after Shaq was pushed out by Kobe lol, went on to win two more championships. Beat Boston for one of them, too

I get the lifer thing but Shaq was the dominant force for those 3 LA championships they were together. Kobe was awesome and an all-time scorer but nobody has him over Magic and Kareem as a player.

 

[superjohn]

Why does that matter? You could say the same thing about Russell or most bigs?
How good would LeBron be if he was in Chris Paul's body? Are you gonna account for his advantage that way?

I've not problem putting Oscar Robertson in my top 10, and I've only seen tape. But he couldn't guard the 4 or the 5 that's for sure.

Yeah that seems like a really weird argument, like the argument that all this guy does is dunk. Good, I want a player who dunks every single trip, it's by far the easiest and most effective shot in the sport.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I get the lifer thing but Shaq was the dominant force for those 3 LA championships they were together. Kobe was awesome and an all-time scorer but nobody has him over Magic and Kareem as a player.

You’re talking like Lakers fans are rational

 

[intlzncster]

Multi-quoting sucks on this site lol
I made that point in that mini MJ-LeBron tangent. Shaq wasn’t part of that argument at all

I've no idea how I did that. Hopefully it made some sense.

So I guess you have no prerogative to evaluate the greatness of Ted Williams

I'm not saying it's everything, but I wouldn't dismiss what people are saying about watching MJ live. People who haven't sneer about the MJ 'Myth'. But it is/was a 'myth' because he was that good. If you watched Pele, or prime Tiger, you'd say the same thing. You can see it with your eyes.

The most amazing part of MJ's game was the mental aspect. And that can't be measured. It can't be put on a stat sheet. Which is why people today scoff. It's also the thing that separates players at the highest level, where everyone is preternaturally skilled.

MJ's without a doubt, in my mind, the most mentally dominant team sport athlete I've ever personally witnessed. But you can't measure it. I watch LeBron, and I don't see that same thing. (and yes, I'm talking about the probably 2nd best player to ever live so that's not scorn).

Vis a vis Ted Williams: Look, there's always problems when you are trying to evaluate between eras. All sports. I get that. But I do think baseball is unique with regards to statistics and player evaluation. In baseball, you are your stats. It's almost like 9 guys playing an individual game, but together. You can evaluate standalone easier that way (against each other in their era). The stats 'fit' if you will.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Yeah that seems like a really weird argument, like the argument that all this guy does is dunk. Good, I want a player who dunks every single trip, it's by far the easiest and most effective shot in the sport.

I guess when you’re down to the top 10, for me, it matters to discuss completeness of your game; your ability to flourish in multiple aspects of the game; the different ways by which you can be a weapon for your team and affect the outcomes of games.

Maybe it’s not a great argument. Like I said, unquestionably top 15

 

[intlzncster]

You give me peak Shaq and you take peak Kobe, and then we draft above average players. I slaughter your team ever time.

But I want peak Shaq...

 

[intlzncster]

Russell is the wrong example. He was a 6'9" athletic freak who could a number of positions if need be.

But he's the exception, hardly the rule.

I just picked one of the few centers on the list. Shoulda gone with Duncan. I think he'd struggle to D PGs with consistency.

 

[intlzncster]

I guess when you’re down to the top 10, for me, it matters to discuss completeness of your game; your ability to flourish in multiple aspects of the game; the different ways by which you can be a weapon for your team and affect the outcomes of games.

Maybe it’s not a great argument. Like I said, unquestionably top 15

Then you should love Hakeem Olajuwon!

 

[tzznandrew]

But I want peak Shaq...

Then you should have come up with the hypothetical.

 

[JimHurley]

Easily the best. He has nothing to work with and his morale is down.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I know I'm asking for it, but the this threads comments about Kobe are really surprising. Why the hate? Seriously. I hear these comments and I seriously want to know what was it about Kobe's game and career that invalidates top 10 status.

Kobe was a great two-way player, dominant in many ways like Jordan, and unlike many star NBA two guards, he cared about the defensive side of the ball. Lebron is better, but that does not negate Kobe's greatness.

Kobe was far too inefficient to be top 10. His greatest attribute was scoring, but he shot less than 45%. MJ, LbJ, Bird, Dr. J, hell Durant all shot close to 50%. That is even worse when you consider he drew single coverage during the years he played behind Shaq. The mark of great players is making those around you better. No one ever accused Kobe of that. He was a top 5 talent, but maybe the most selfish ever.