Is John Scheyer the worst coach in college basketball?

[nelsonmuntz]

College coaches don't really "recruit" any more than a pro franchise "recruits" players by paying them more money than other franchises.

 

[Scottzer]

College coaches don't really "recruit" any more than a pro franchise "recruits" players by paying them more money than other franchises.

I disagree - if I’m a 4 or 5 star, I take less $ to play for Hurley or Sampson, unless I’m undersized for the NBA and need now money.

 

[jibsey]

He can recruit but obviously can't coach. Reminds me of Steve Lavin.

“he” meaning Duke University can recruit. He’s at Harvard of the South and Coach K’s coattails are still working well. Lavin did not have any of that working for him.

 

[Kolumbo]

I hate to say it because he's a UConn giy but Pikiell really is not a good head coach. He'd be much better as a top AHC with a defensive niche

I think it's the situation more than Steve Pikiell's ability. He had a great run during his 11 years at Stony Brook. Coaching at Rutgers of all places in the Big Ten is an entirely different beast. I think he be very successful either in a different conference or at a school which isn't a dumpster fire.

 

[superjohn]

I hate to say it because he's a UConn giy but Pikiell really is not a good head coach. He'd be much better as a top AHC with a defensive niche

I love the guy but he's a bad head coach, one of the worst offensive coaches in the country.

 

[HooperScooper]

“he” meaning Duke University can recruit. He’s at Harvard of the South and Coach K’s coattails are still working well. Lavin did not have any of that working for him.

Vanderbilt would be pissed to hear someone call Duke the Harvard of the South.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Im sure he will have a great career as Duke Head Coach, with at least a ring or two. They still command the best talent, they always will.

We dont need to be jealous of them anymore. We've had the better program this century. We can drop the "Puke" narrative or at least tone it down. Ive always been in this camp though

 

[mauconnfan]

It’s just way too early to say. Yes, he’s getting top talent, but it’ll take 10 years to really answer this question.
Calhoun was a seasoned coach and we didn’t make a FF with Donyell and Ray on the same team. Different era, and we played older teams back then, but still - we had a lot of talent before ever cutting down the nets.
On the flip side, when Calhoun was much older, we saw the Kemba run. And, I can’t possibly see Scheyer cutting down the nets with that team. Now, that team had an on paper number 23 recruiting class if memory serves), but during the first week of practice Calhoun said (paraphrase) “you don’t really know what you have until you have them in the gym, and the first week, i said these guys are really good.”

Long story short, some of the lack of Duke’s player development issues is on Scheyer. Some of it is missed evaluations - and these are overvaluations that many more than just Scheyer made. I’m not going to fault him for some of those any more than I’ll fault Danny for bringing over the St Mary’s kid. I still trust Danny and crew to make an evaluation.
I’m curious to see how Duke’s defense fairs arfter losing Lucas.

He’s a good coach, not great yet, but he fits the program and will have more time to grow. We shall see.

Well Calhoun didn’t take over a program which Coach K built and handed over so mentioning a lot of talent before cutting down the nets is a little unfair. But agree with everything else!

 

[Ha Who]

Duke’s mistake is taking the Calirpari approach

 

[StllH8L8ner]

F Duke

 

[REB1094]

 

[Glenn]

Hubert Davis of UNC is definitely worse. Same blue blood blood recruiting assets, but does not recruit as well, doesn't develop his players, tournament record getting worse year by year.

 

[Husky68]

Best team out of 68 teams is still hard to win unless you have a Kareem or Walton and you still might get beat by a NCST or Villanova on any particular night. Scheyer did not learn from the earlier losses that giving Flagg the ball late for one on one move is not high percentage play. Especially as he looked tired/beat up.

Also was bad luck as Duke's big center had good rebounding position but Flagg missed by so much that the rebound came out quick and far so he couldn't get a put back. So see some bad coaching play pick and also some bad luck. Flagg's shot was to me ok, just too tired/unclutch to make it, or even get a close miss.

 

[Lafayette]

Best team out of 68 teams is still hard to win unless you have a Kareem or Walton and you still might get beat by a NCST or Villanova on any particular night. Scheyer did not learn from the earlier losses that giving Flagg the ball late for one on one move is not high percentage play. Especially as he looked tired/beat up.

Also was bad luck as Duke's big center had good rebounding position but Flagg missed by so much that the rebound came out quick and far so he couldn't get a put back. So see some bad coaching play pick and also some bad luck. Flagg's shot was to me ok, just too tired/unclutch to make it, or even get a close miss.

Kareem nor Walton never played close to 68 teams but that is way beside the point.

 

[Ha Who]

Best team out of 68 teams is still hard to win unless you have a Kareem or Walton and you still might get beat by a NCST or Villanova on any particular night. Scheyer did not learn from the earlier losses that giving Flagg the ball late for one on one move is not high percentage play. Especially as he looked tired/beat up.

Also was bad luck as Duke's big center had good rebounding position but Flagg missed by so much that the rebound came out quick and far so he couldn't get a put back. So see some bad coaching play pick and also some bad luck. Flagg's shot was to me ok, just too tired/unclutch to make it, or even get a close miss.

No, one and done doesn’t win

 

[Windham4th]

Duke had little to do with their spots. they likely would have been picked in the top 10 regardless of where they went. Even Northwest Bumbleduck Community College.

 

[huskyblooz]

they had a bad 5-minute stretch against a real good team.

 

[freescooter]

“he” meaning Duke University can recruit. He’s at Harvard of the South and Coach K’s coattails are still working well. Lavin did not have any of that working for him.

As Geno say, that of the South is a pretty big qualifier!

 

[DogMania]

Some coaches do more with less. Jim Calhoun was a great example of that. While Scheyer is a coach that does less with more. That Cooper led team should have at least made it to the final game with all that 5-Star talent.

I've posted this many times. If anyone has a lot of time on their hands, it will be interesting to compare some of the most prominent coaches, taking the cumulative ranking of their players in each season, their NCAA Tournament seeding and apply that to how far they went in the NCAA Tournament.

Both JC and Hurley would usually land at most 1 MD Burger Boy and mostly 4-Star recruits while the coaches at Dook, UNC and Kansas would pull in a haul of 5-Stsr recruits.

My guess is JC would land on the #1 spot and Izzo #2, while even with all the success of these coaches, K, Dean and Self should have won a lot more considering the talent and seeding they would get year after year.

When UConn's coaches get their teams to the F4, they are close to flawless, taking home the Championship hardware. Imagine how many more championships our coaches would have if we had that talent and favorable seeding, like playing in New England year after year, like Dook and UNC has had in the state of NC.

Scheyer is doing even less with more than the coaches that had or have similar talent. He has been a heck of a recruiter, but how much of a factor is the Dook label?

 

[amishboy]

I know he's retired, but in his prime, I'd have matched Jim Boeheim up against any other coach in the country. The model of a great recruiter (consider the challenge of recruiting players to Syracuse, compared to Duke!) and a horrible coach.

Just a reminder: his 1987 Syracuse team included Rony Seikaly (11 years in the NBA), Derrick Coleman (overall #1 pick, rookie of the year, twice All-NBA Third Team, 15 years), and Sherman Douglas (12 years); they lost the championship to Indiana, which featured the less-than-immortal Steve Alford (4 years), Keith Smart (2 GAMES!), and Dean Garrett (6 years).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I know he's retired, but in his prime, I'd have matched Jim Boeheim up against any other coach in the country. The model of a great recruiter (consider the challenge of recruiting players to Syracuse, compared to Duke!) and a horrible coach.

Just a reminder: his 1987 Syracuse team included Rony Seikaly (11 years in the NBA), Derrick Coleman (overall #1 pick, rookie of the year, twice All-NBA Third Team, 15 years), and Sherman Douglas (12 years); they lost the championship to Indiana, which featured the less-than-immortal Steve Alford (4 years), Keith Smart (2 GAMES!), and Dean Garrett (6 years).

Boeheim’s Syracuse played the 2-3 really well. There were no holes in that zone and they got their hands on a lot of passes.

I will agree that on offense, it looked like pickup basketball.

 

[JLW]

Is Scheyer a good or great recruiter or is everyone enamored with Duke?

 

[gtcam]

I know he's retired, but in his prime, I'd have matched Jim Boeheim up against any other coach in the country. The model of a great recruiter (consider the challenge of recruiting players to Syracuse, compared to Duke!) and a horrible coach.

Just a reminder: his 1987 Syracuse team included Rony Seikaly (11 years in the NBA), Derrick Coleman (overall #1 pick, rookie of the year, twice All-NBA Third Team, 15 years), and Sherman Douglas (12 years); they lost the championship to Indiana, which featured the less-than-immortal Steve Alford (4 years), Keith Smart (2 GAMES!), and Dean Garrett (6 years).

And who was the opposing coach at Indiana?
As I remember it was someone who had a much higher basketball IQ than The Picker

 

[huskyblooz]

has anyone won less with more talent, than The Squid?

 

[controlfade]

Is Scheyer a good or great recruiter or is everyone enamored with Duke?

He’s a great recruiter, he is credited with getting guys like Tatum and Zion (for example) committing to Duke while an assistant

 

[TheHorde]

He wouldn’t even be the worst in the Big 10 with the bozo at Illinois that had his players keep driving at Clingan lmao

 

[HooperScooper]

He’s a great recruiter, he is credited with getting guys like Tatum and Zion (for example) committing to Duke while an assistant

I don't understand why he's perceived as a great recruiter. Every time I hear him speak he sounds dull and unenthusiastic. He's at Duke. Which is pretty easy to recruit to. He had Coach K and Duke when he recruited those players you mentioned. You and I probably could have landed those players if we were in the same situation.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

I don't understand why. Every time I hear him speak he sounds dull and unenthusiastic. He did have Coach K and Duke when he recruited those players. You and I probably could have landed those players if we were in the same situation.

Some 5* guys will go to Duke whether it’s Jon Scheyer or John Stamos at the helm (or in Zion’s case, you get a free house for your parents as the NCAA looks the other way). They’ve had a Top 3-5 recruiting class every year but haven’t won a title in, what, 10 years? They’ll always be very good good simply bc of talent, but the coaches are mostly babysitters for a few months until the draft. Quick look at Duke’s Wiki page and with all of the All-American awards and credentials that many former players have gone on to professionally, you’d think they’d be up near UCLA in terms of titles but they’re nowhere close. I don’t think Scheyer’s a bad coach but you could plug in almost anyone and win 20+ games there esp now that the ACC stinks.

 

[Iluvsuebird]

You beat me to it. It seems weird to start this thread and ignore a team that had to come back from a 12 point deficit to beat Albany in the first round.

3 of the top 10, including the consensus top player and the best center on the draft. Not a good look for the Duke HC.

 

[NewBlood]

Not the worst, but not top 10 (Danny, Few, Pitino, Izzo, Pearl, Painter, Golden, Samson, Oats, even Calipari before Scheyer). And this "he's an amazing recruiter" nonsense, he sells the brand.

An amazing recruiter gets top talent to play in a place with no brand. A good coach takes good talent and makes it great, average talent and makes it good.

This is Calhoun