Is Joe Williams still suspended? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Is Joe Williams still suspended?

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FAIRTIDES said:
Years back, at the time when FSU = "Free Sneakers University," two players were involved in situation that had a friendly Dept Store Clerk ring-up fewer items than would leave the store with the players. Timing was awful because of an upcoming Bowl which included FSU and national champ implications.

One player was a super-star, All American. The other player was a a sometimes starter, fastest player on the team type that had a domestic violence entry on his record. The star played in the Bowl Game. The lessor player was suspended and never played another game at FSU.

The "star" was drafted in the first round.

The other guy was also drafted, in the third round. As one would expect, given the record of domestic violence, the NFL team received a steady ration of press heat But the team had done its homework. It had hired an ex-NYC senior cop to investigate the kid, pre-draft. The ex-cop quickly found the incident in question described as the player keeping his very large stepmother from attacking his much smaller biological mother. It was sort of a hold-off, push down, sit-on type of thing. With this type of thing, a wait for the real facts is an absolute requirement.
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For as many stories like this that there are, there are the opposite, where a player was put on the field, that had no business being there due to their off-field behavior. This is where things like sports media, and local culture, and values and things factor in. If the media is on top of the situation, and makes a stink about something? Or if they choose not to?

The point, I believe - is that there needs to be some kind of middle ground, sliding scale, wiggle room with the facts of a situation, as it plays out and how disciplinary action is determined and enforced.

Whether or not Joe Williams theft issue - which I believe is a pretty serious crime as crimes are rated because it involved a credit card, state lines, etc.....could be wrong, I'm not a lawyer - but in legalese - stealing a credit card - I do believe is a more serious crime as classified legally in the courts - than misdemeanor breach of peace. Lawyers of the world correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway - I have no idea what the facts are of William's case - but somebody does - and the point I just made above, is independent of any specific case.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Jimmy, you're being a pain in the now.

Nobody is defending Pasqualoni for what he did with McCOmbs, and we all were pretty clear that Edsall would have handled McCombs a lot differently than Pasqualoni did, and that Pasqualoni was way too lenient.

The point whaler, I, and fairtides and others are making, is that there needs to be some middle ground in disciplinary actions regarding suspensions from practice and play for scholarship athletes when there are transgressions with the law, and/or, other "violations of team rules".

You can do it, and put players on the field, that have legal actions, disciplinary actions, pending or in process against them, or keep them off the field, on a sliding scale, and do it ethically, morally, and legally. Is it a slippery slope? Sure - it can be. If there aren't checks and balances - talking to you media people. But it's also the opposite, and shoots yourself in the foot, for what may be something quite minor, if you are too strict with the black and white application of discipline.
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I'll bite - why only scholarship athletes (unless you didn't mean to segregate them out from other university athletes)?
 
huskymedic said:
I'll bite - why only scholarship athletes (unless you didn't mean to segregate them out from other university athletes)?
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Astute. Scholarship athletes are being paid to play. Are they not?
 
huskymedic said:
I'll bite - why only scholarship athletes (unless you didn't mean to segregate them out from other university athletes)?
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Carl Spackler said:
Astute. Scholarship athletes are being paid to play. Are they not?
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Agreed but that allows that they should be treated differently from non-scholarship players? The crime is a crime whether they have a full-ride, partial ride or no ride. Not arguing that each incident needs to be evaluated separately.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Jimmy, you're being a pain in the now.

Nobody is defending Pasqualoni for what he did with McCOmbs, and we all were pretty clear that Edsall would have handled McCombs a lot differently than Pasqualoni did, and that Pasqualoni was way too lenient.

The point whaler, I, and fairtides and others are making, is that there needs to be some middle ground in disciplinary actions regarding suspensions from practice and play for scholarship athletes when there are transgressions with the law, and/or, other "violations of team rules".

You can do it, and put players on the field, that have legal actions, disciplinary actions, pending or in process against them, or keep them off the field, on a sliding scale, and do it ethically, morally, and legally. Is it a slippery slope? Sure - it can be. If there aren't checks and balances - talking to you media people. But it's also the opposite, and shoots yourself in the foot, for what may be something quite minor, if you are too strict with the black and white application of discipline.
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As usual.....clear, concise, and to the point.

I'm on your side. I think Williams should've been back weeks ago.

People are claiming McCombs either didn't shove a woman down or maybe did so with a very very very good reason. And I called bullspit.
 
huskymedic said:
Agreed but that allows that they should be treated differently from non-scholarship player? The crime is a crime whether they have a full-ride, partial ride or no ride. Not arguing that each incident needs to be evaluated separately.
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Should an athlete be held to different standards in the public eye than a general student body non-athlete? regardless of scholarship?


The crime is indeed the crime. BTW: I don't think that scholarships and non-scholarship players should be treated differently regarding actual discipline. I do think that scholarship athletes need to have their situations very closely examined though, as the university is investing a lot of money in them - to play a sport in return for the cost of an education. So yes, I think a lot more investigation of the facts of a "crime" be done with scholarship players. It's really up to the university administration and coaching staff, how much and what kind of decision making processes go into these things.

I think it's clearly something that we need to evaluate among all the other things we need to do, to ensure the success of this program now and into the future.
 
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I never quite understood the McCombs thing really. Pasqualoni really wasn't know ever as a lax disciplinarian in terms of that type of thing and wasn't really lax in other situations either. Even in his Syracuse days he didn't have that rep. I've always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that he checked with the PD as well as the athletic director and they all concluded that this was a pretty minor matter. I don't even remember there being much of a report of the case going to court. Again I could be wrong, and maybe there was something there and something was reported. I would have liked to have seen McCombs benched fo rthe game at least, personally. But given P's history and his reputation as being pretty solid on these types of issues throughout his career, I was inclined to give him a pass on that one, assuming he had much better information that I did.
 
Well since this won't die - as with the domestic dispute that was described in the FSU situation, perhaps there is alternate angle to the mutual spitting incident.

maybe one partner in the relationship happened to walk in on the other engaged in activities with a third party. Perhaps there were multiple parties involved with both partners, and a relationship was in the process of ending, or beginning.

We will never know. I do think that Pasqualoni was too lenient with what was out in the media and his proportional punishment. If the punishment did fit the crime, it should have been made clear in the media, that's for sure. And if it didn't, the media should have pushed back on it.

The media and college football - always go together. The media and NFL football too. The media and football, have always gone together hand in hand. They go together.
 
Devland said:
The value of what was stolen should equal the value of the available credit on the card. Shouldn't it? Let's say he stole a card that had $5000 of credit available on it and had charged $175.00. Wouldn't that be the same as stealing $5000 of cash and spending $175.00 of it? Who was to say he was going to stop charging at $175.00? Plus stealing a fellow students or teammates credit card is lot more personal than shoplifting.
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How is that the same thing? I have no idea if he was stopped from spending more but it didn't get spent so unless there is evidence that additional charges were rejected I'm not seeing how it's stealing more than the value that was actually spent.

Unless it's somewhere and I missed it we haven't seen it was a student or teammate?
 
The academic requirements aren't any different for non-scholarship athletes, and the behavioral requirements shouldn't be any different either. I can't understand how anyone would argue otherwise. Should men and women that volunteer to coach HS AAU teams be held to different standards with their players than the paid HS coaches? Crazy.
 
WingU-Conn said:
That's your right. I'd be demanding the coach ignore you because that's a ridiculous punishment for a misdemeanor crime.

Apparently on this board it's worse to steal than to hit a woman. That's unbelievable.




Fights don't just "happen". Someone makes the decision to throw the first punch. Not every athlete involved in a fight was simply defending themselves.





People make bad decisions all the time. It's called "petty theft" for a reason. Personally I think petty theft is less egregious than assaulting a woman.
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Until they're able to get away with it once, maybe even twice and who knows what they may try to pull next. As others have said there's got to be something we don't know if it's taking this long. The kid should definitely learn a lesson after this is all said and done.
 
Jimmy Serrano said:
I don't understand your point here? McCombs also spit on his girlfriend. The decision to sit him for a quarter was a disgrace.
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By the way. If you remember LM sat out the next game due to an injury. Let me just say he wasn't injured. Pretty easy to figure out who stepped in. Please (anybody) don't ask for details. Figured since PP's gone it should be known.
 
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huskymedic said:
No winning this argument because each person believes what they do based on their internal belief system, but just as a point of reference, LM wasn't charged w/ assault, just breach of peace.
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How can anyone be comparing two legal offenses without knowing the particulars of either of them?
 
WingU-Conn said:
The academic requirements aren't any different for non-scholarship athletes, and the behavioral requirements shouldn't be any different either. I can't understand how anyone would argue otherwise. Should men and women that volunteer to coach HS AAU teams be held to different standards with their players than the paid HS coaches? Crazy.
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Should an academic scholarship student under investigation, or charged with a crime and going through court proceedings be prevented from going to classes?

A good friend of mine back in the day got kicked off campus for having a keg in his dorm room and was charged with some kind of crimeby the UConn cops for serving alcohol to minors, that was eventually dropped. Should he have been prevented from going to classes as it was played out?

(I am posing questions for thought only. The point is that there needs to be some common sense, and proportionality to disciplinary actions.) I honestly have no idea what Williams situation is. I'm sure it's not something that a little investigative reporting wouldn't be able to uncover.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Should an academic scholarship student under investigation, or charged with a crime and going through court proceedings be prevented from going to classes?

A good friend of mine back in the day got kicked off campus for having a keg in his dorm room and was charged with some kind of crimeby the UConn cops for serving alcohol to minors, that was eventually dropped. Should he have been prevented from going to classes as it was played out?

(I am posing questions for thought only. The point is that there needs to be some common sense, and proportionality to disciplinary actions.) I honestly have no idea what Williams situation is. I'm sure it's not something that a little investigative reporting wouldn't be able to uncover.
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The court of public opinion should be just that, OPINION!
Social media has made innocent until proven guilty null and void.
How can people read a news report and make an assumption of guilt or innocence.
Much less punish an individual before due process has even started.
That's really "WING"ing it!
 
Quick question is Joe Williams suspended from practice as well? From what we heard about the reasons he did not play much last year, unless things have changed and as long as he is still practicing this suspension might not be as bad as it appears. I mean if he isn't going to play anyway it wouldn't really matter if he is suspended or not.

In addition this could be seen as a second strike for Joe. The first being him not learning playbook or getting the job done in practice last year. The police don't have to be involved for a player to be in trouble with the coaching staff.
 
Jimmy Serrano said:
I don't understand your point here? McCombs also spit on his girlfriend. The decision to sit him for a quarter was a disgrace.
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Sorry, It was a little long. The point is that each of these types of situations require time to play out. We outsiders typically don't get the info necessary to form an opinion and terms like "domestic battery," "harassment," and, lately, "bullying" are thrown around by the media and Law Enforcement without regard to the perception they create. I guess the point is Remember Duke Lacrosse.
 
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Carl Spackler said:
Should an academic scholarship student under investigation, or charged with a crime and going through court proceedings be prevented from going to classes?

A good friend of mine back in the day got kicked off campus for having a keg in his dorm room and was charged with some kind of crimeby the UConn cops for serving alcohol to minors, that was eventually dropped. Should he have been prevented from going to classes as it was played out?

(I am posing questions for thought only. The point is that there needs to be some common sense, and proportionality to disciplinary actions.) I honestly have no idea what Williams situation is. I'm sure it's not something that a little investigative reporting wouldn't be able to uncover.
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Neither of those have anything to do with your last point that scholarship athletes should be treated different than non-scholarship athletes, only because they are scholarship athletes.

That first question is so stupid for a multitude of reasons that aren't worth my time getting into. I don't know why you think it's thought provoking, it's not.

Put simply, you don't need to be an athlete to be a student at a university; however, you do need to be a student to be an athlete at a university. Not surprisingly, you don't need to live on campus to remain a student.

Take away the ability to go to class and you might as well just expel the student.

Of course there should be some common sense. I hope there's more to the story, because if all he did was charge up less than $200 on a stolen credit card, he should be back playing by now.
 
FAIRTIDES said:
Sorry, It was a little long. The point is that each of these types of situations require time to play out. We outsiders typically don't get the info necessary to form an opinion and terms like "domestic battery," "harassment," and, lately, "bullying" are thrown around by the media and Law Enforcement without regard to the perception they create. I guess the point is Remember Duke Lacrosse.
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If McCombs is worried about his reputation he should keep his name out of the papers for anything that doesn't involve success on the field or in the classroom. If you think I'm the one tarnishing his reputation you're being naive.
 
Joe stole a credit card, made a purchase and had it delivered to his house.

You gotta be pretty dumb to do that, sorry Joe, so maybe its best he doesn't play.
 
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