Is Iowa at Indiana Threadworthy?

[Dillon77]

I have this prejudice when thinking about Big Ten sports that comes from old Woody Hayes football and Bobby Knight MBB. Hard, closely played defensive battles.

WBB in the Big 10 is more free wheeling and an offensive show as led by Maryland for years and epitomized by Caitlin Clark Utah offense this year

But still when the name Big Ten hits my brain . . .

Funny, my initial reflex is to juxtapose your home conference with the B1G:

• SEC WBB is a physical, intense affair (while football is increasingly run, pass and gun)
• B1G is kind of a mismash of teams. Iowa, Maryland and Ohio State (when on) like to push pace, while Indiana who used to slow pace down, is moving a little faster this year. Michigan fluctuates it's pace based on who is leading the offense.

Hard to get those lingering images/feelings out of the place in the mental closet!

 

[BRS24]

Might have missed something however why does Caitlin’s jersey say Keogh?

 

[victor64]

Might have missed something however why does Caitlin’s jersey say Keogh?

Recognizing cancer victims

 

[The deacon]

Recognizing cancer victims

Couldn't see the game but kind of followed it on ESPN's play by play... credit to the Hoosiers for holding serve at home. Looking at the box score, it seems it was a matter of Indiana having two standout players and Iowa just one. MacKenzie Holmes apparently shut down Monika Czinano, or the Hoosiers as a team did.

 

[Bigboote]

Well, that was really worth the price of admission. The result was what I expected, but the halves were reversed. I'd expected Indiana to get to halftime up a few baskets and Iowa to make a couple of runs in the second half.

I can't believe how quickly Berger came back from being out a month. 16 points in her first game back, and 2-3 weeks later, a clinic in spin moves and toughness in this game. If it weren't for Clark, Holmes would be the B1G player of the year.

Clark's bellyaching really gets to me. She hit someone in the face with an extended (in front of her) arm and could have been teed up with her reaction.

 

[victor64]

I thought Chloe McNeil did a great job on Clark. Clark was 12/28 from the field

 

[bballnut90]

Fun game to watch. I thought Berger was the best player on the court. She was brilliant, especially in the second half. Really good in the midrange and bullying Iowa's guards inside. Holmes also badly outplayed Czinano. That match up was the biggest difference between the 2 teams. Indiana had 2 legit stars, Iowa had 1 who played well but was burdened by the weight of doing it all. Side note--Czinano can't be more than 6-0 or 6-1...Holmes towered over her when they were matched up.

Iowa definitely had their chances this game. I was rooting for them but thought they got a LOT of favorable calls. Maybe it was the crowd influence but a lot of tick tack fouls called against Indiana and I thought Iowa got away with several no calls. At any rate, Iowa missed a lot 3s and there was not enough support for Clark. It rarely seemed like they were in rhythm. Clark played okay for Clark standards. Not her best game, too many TOs (8) but had some great plays and still finished with 35/10 assists which would be a career night for anyone else in the country. I thought Moore-Mcneil did a really good job defending her.

Stuelke is a nice presence inside, but going 0-8 from FT was extremely costly. Even if she hits half of those it's a drastically different game down the stretch. Aside from that I thought she played great in a big time match up. Fun game, great crowd. The rematch is already sold out.

 

[GoChips20]

Fun game to watch. I thought Berger was the best player on the court. She was brilliant, especially in the second half. Really good in the midrange and bullying Iowa's guards inside. Holmes also badly outplayed Czinano. That match up was the biggest difference between the 2 teams. Indiana had 2 legit stars, Iowa had 1 who played well but was burdened by the weight of doing it all. Side note--Czinano can't be more than 6-0 or 6-1...Holmes towered over her when they were matched up.

Iowa definitely had their chances this game. I was rooting for them but thought they got a LOT of favorable calls. Maybe it was the crowd influence but a lot of tick tack fouls called against Indiana and I thought Iowa got away with several no calls. At any rate, Iowa missed a lot 3s and there was enough support for Clark. It rarely seemed like they were in rhythm. Clark played okay for Clark standards. Not her best game, too many TOs (8) but had some great plays and still finished with 35/10 assists which would be a career night for anyone else in the country. I thought Moore-Mcneil did a really good job defending her.

Stuelke is a nice presence inside, but going 0-8 from FT was extremely costly. Even if she hits half of those it's a drastically different game down the stretch. Aside from that I thought she played great in a big time match up. Fun game, great crowd. The rematch is already sold out.

It’s a testament to the player Clark is that we’re calling 35/10 “a really good job defending” (and to be clear I don’t disagree with you).

 

[Dillon77]

These games are made for Berger to assert herself at key moments. I love her slow, steady back in and then the deft, fadeaway jumper

I can't believe how quickly Berger came back from being out a month. 16 points in her first game back, and 2-3 weeks later, a clinic in spin moves and toughness in this game.

Fun game to watch. I thought Berger was the best player on the court. She was brilliant, especially in the second half. Really good in the midrange and bullying Iowa's guards inside.

A Trifecta of +++'s for Berger. When IU needed a bucket, she just got to her spot for her shot ... and nailed it. She and Maine's finest - McKenzie Holmes -- were just spectacular. Can't wait for the rematch at Iowa.

 

[BRS24]

A while back, some posters mentioned that Clark needs support from Czinano, and I think it showed last night when she had to leave the game due to fouls, and only had 6 pts.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

A while back, some posters mentioned that Clark needs support from Czinano, and I think it showed last night when she had to leave the game due to fouls, and only had 6 pts.

Iowa is hard to watch for me. Too much Clark with capable scorers around her. She took like 20 more shots than the next Iowa player. That's a gift to the defense. Iowa needs more balance. She had 10 assists. Sounds impressive, but she is their PG and she has the ball in her hand ...A LOT. Indiana looked really good.

 

[BRS24]

Iowa is hard to watch for me. Too much Clark with capable scorers around her. She took like 20 more shots than the next Iowa player. That's a gift to the defense. Iowa needs more balance. She had 10 assists. Sounds impressive, but she is their PG and she has the ball in her hand ...A LOT. Indiana looked really good.

And similar to the scope creep of the Heisman pretty much now becoming a QB award, I want my PG award to go to someone that facilitates the offense, with scoring 2nd or 3rd options. But we'll see.

 

[cancontent]

A Trifecta of +++'s for Berger. When IU needed a bucket, she just got to her spot for her shot ... and nailed it. She and Maine's finest - McKenzie Holmes -- were just spectacular. Can't wait for the rematch at Iowa.

This is why I was surprised not much was being said about how her play would impact the game. Not taking anything away from Holmes but Berger is a really special player who seems to have been taken for granted. It's just expected that she'll perform the way she does.

 

[Dillon77]

This is why I was surprised not much was being said about how her play would impact the game. Not taking anything away from Holmes but Berger is a really special player who seems to have been taken for granted. It's just expected that she'll perform the way she does.

Not by me, our Canadian friend/correspondent! Berger is made for these games: she started taking them over from Patberg halfway through her sophomore year.

A buddy I play hoop with -- who refs the AAU circuit -- saw her during her HS freshman year or soph spring break. He told me "Write McGraw about this kid....no mistakes. Confident." I watched all the "tape" I could (Berger is from Kentucky) and sent a note. Too late: she committed super early to Moren and is now the poster child for the IU program as we know it. Fire and Ice in one package.

 

[cancontent]

Not by me, our Canadian friend/correspondent! Berger is made for these games: she started taking them over from Patberg halfway through her sophomore year.

A buddy I play hoop with refs the AAU circuit saw her during her HS freshman year or soph spring break. He told me "Write McGraw about this kid....no mistakes. Confident." I watched all the "tape" I could (Berger is from Kentucky) and sent a note. Too late: she committed super early to Moren and is now the poster child for the IU program as we know it. Fire and Ice in one package.

100% my friend. Really was impressed with her when I saw her play with USA basketball during the Americas tournament prior to the Tokyo Olympics. I think she took her game to another level after that experience.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Just a general comment that I've gleaned from reading about Clark's career for the past few years on this board.

There seem to be a lot of posters here who don't seem to care for volume shooters, which Clark is. The fact she has so many assists doesn't seem to phase those who believe she takes too many shots for Iowa. I recall the same things being said about Kelsey Mitchell when she was at OSU, and definitely was said about Arike at ND.

Like many people I too prefer basketball games that are balanced, crisp, with lots of passes and getting people the ball in the right spot. However, over the years I've also seen teams where if the alpha player didn't take a lot of shots, they had no chance of winning. It may not be ideal but it's reality.

This isn't is a criticism of any specific person or their views, just an observation combined with my two cents. From all accounts Clark is an exceptional player and has given Iowa a breath of fresh air in basketball.

 

[The deacon]

Just a general comment that I've gleaned from reading about Clark's career for the past few years on this board.

There seem to be a lot of posters here who don't seem to care for volume shooters, which Clark is. The fact she has so many assists doesn't seem to phase those who believe she takes too many shots for Iowa. I recall the same things being said about Kelsey Mitchell when she was at OSU, and definitely was said about Arike at ND.

Like many people I too prefer basketball games that are balanced, crisp, with lots of passes and getting people the ball in the right spot. However, over the years I've also seen teams where if the alpha player didn't take a lot of shots, they had no chance of winning. It may not be ideal but it's reality.

This isn't is a criticism of any specific person or their views, just an observation combined with my two cents. From all accounts Clark is an exceptional player and has given Iowa a breath of fresh air in basketball.

Interesting thoughts, MSSportsGuy, and there's validity to it all except, please, please, please don't compare Caitlin Clark to Arike... yikes!

Iowa is hard to watch for me. Too much Clark with capable scorers around her. She took like 20 more shots than the next Iowa player. That's a gift to the defense. Iowa needs more balance. She had 10 assists. Sounds impressive, but she is their PG and she has the ball in her hand ...A LOT. Indiana looked really good.

Yes, Caitlin took 20 more shots than her teammates last night, but that disparity was not the norm.

Note the Hawkeyes are shooting 50 percent from the floor for the season, 52 percent without Caitlin's shots, and Clark is shooting 46 percent. It's not like her shooting is dragging Iowa off a cliff. And a high percentage of shots by her teammates are layups she sets up or wide open threes because she's so closely guarded.

Even last night, she shot 43 percent on what was a below-average night for her, likely due to the reality that Indiana plays better defense than most other teams. By the way, Clark is averaging 19 shots per game, not an extraordinary number considering the team's reliance on her.

 

[visitingcock]

Just a general comment that I've gleaned from reading about Clark's career for the past few years on this board.

There seem to be a lot of posters here who don't seem to care for volume shooters, which Clark is. The fact she has so many assists doesn't seem to phase those who believe she takes too many shots for Iowa. I recall the same things being said about Kelsey Mitchell when she was at OSU, and definitely was said about Arike at ND.

Like many people I too prefer basketball games that are balanced, crisp, with lots of passes and getting people the ball in the right spot. However, over the years I've also seen teams where if the alpha player didn't take a lot of shots, they had no chance of winning. It may not be ideal but it's reality.

This isn't is a criticism of any specific person or their views, just an observation combined with my two cents. From all accounts Clark is an exceptional player and has given Iowa a breath of fresh air in basketball.

I will confess that I have a prejudice against high volume shooters as being "ballhogs." Goes back to my childhood when "ballhogs" and "hot dogs" were generally dislike in favor of "team players." I'll never shake that prejudice. Too ingrained.

However, The high assist number by Clark and the number of triple doubles she has posted, makes be realize that her performance warrants an exception. She is a GREAT offensive player!

 

[Bone Dog]

I agree that Clark isn’t really pg, though she plays one on TV. She’s really a shooting guard with excellent handles. She’s a good passer to be sure, but she’s too important as a shooter to this team. Can Marshall really not play the point for Iowa? I wonder if Bluder isn’t making a mistake here.

I love Berger and Holmes — actually a better version of Clark and Czinano because they know how to involve the rest of the team better.

I had better hopes for Iowa after they lost to UConn. They threatened in the 2nd and 3rd quarters until collapsing in the 4th. Their scoring was more evenly distributed, with Marshall and Martin and Warnock having bigger roles. IU beat them too, but it was a close game, closer than I expected. They played a lot like Iowa. As a result, I expect UConn will beat IU if it comes to it and everyone’s healthy. I hope we see that game.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Interesting thoughts, MSSportsGuy, and there's validity to it all except, please, please, please don't compare Caitlin Clark to Arike... yikes!

Point taken lol. Arike, while I think she's a very good player, never met a shot she didn't like. That being said ND doesn't win a NC or finish runner up the next year if she wasn't fearless, which I believe she managed to be without crossing the line to wreckless most of the time .

Given how message boards tend to attract generally old school posters I get we mostly prefer a certain style of basketball. UConn's style also tends to spoil us as well. I still believe that sometimes posters who mention the number of shots a player takes need to take a step back and think that maybe the player has been told to do that in order to increase the likelihood of winning. I'm also talking to myself here.

 

[The deacon]

I will confess that I have a prejudice against high volume shooters as being "ballhogs." Goes back to my childhood when "ballhogs" and "hot dogs" were generally dislike in favor of "team players." I'll never shake that prejudice. Too ingrained.

However, The high assist number by Clark and the number of triple doubles she has posted, makes be realize that her performance warrants an exception. She is a GREAT offensive player!

A GREAT offensive player....

Well said, visitingcock. Somewhere along the line, it might be once Caitlin's in the WNBA and/or playing for the US in the Olympics, you'll notice she's a GREAT player. For the moment, we're cool.

 

[The deacon]

Point taken lol. Arike, while I think she's a very good player, never met a shot she didn't like. That being said ND doesn't win a NC or finish runner up the next year if she wasn't fearless, which I believe she managed to be without crossing the line to wreckless most of the time .

Given how message boards tend to attract generally old school posters I get we mostly prefer a certain style of basketball. UConn's style also tends to spoil us as well. I still believe that sometimes posters who mention the number of shots a player takes need to take a step back and think that maybe the player has been told to do that in order to increase the likelihood of winning. I'm also talking to myself here.

Agreed re Arike, although it bears mentioning that those Notre Dame teams were stocked with really good players and, although I'd better whisper it here on the BY, a fairly good coach. Her role on the Irish was not as crucial as Caitlin's on Iowa, even in games in which Clark doesn't shoot 'volumes' of shots.

 

[cancontent]

I agree that Clark isn’t really pg, though she plays one on TV. She’s really a shooting guard with excellent handles. She’s a good passer to be sure, but she’s too important as a shooter to this team. Can Marshall really not play the point for Iowa? I wonder if Bluder isn’t making a mistake here.

I love Berger and Holmes — actually a better version of Clark and Czinano because they know how to involve the rest of the team better.

I had better hopes for Iowa after they lost to UConn. They threatened in the 2nd and 3rd quarters until collapsing in the 4th. Their scoring was more evenly distributed, with Marshall and Martin and Warnock having bigger roles. IU beat them too, but it was a close game, closer than I expected. They played a lot like Iowa. As a result, I expect UConn will beat IU if it comes to it and everyone’s healthy. I hope we see that game.

What you saw last night is how they've been playing all season and last season, if you ask me. Only exception with last season was that Gube (sic) was another reliable inside presence where they're relying a lot more on Holmes this season.

 

[Bjbod]

There seem to be a lot of posters here who don't seem to care for volume shooters, which Clark is. The fact she has so many assists doesn't seem to phase those who believe she takes too many shots for Iowa.

I've had this feeling for awhile, but I wanted to check the stats to see if I was right. Clark averages 24.8 shots/game in Iowa's losses, but only 17.8 in their wins. Last year: 23.4 vs 18.6. Probably several reasons to blame, but primarily this reflects on her surrounding cast: usually shorter and less athletic than the opposition. This makes it harder for them to score and even to get off shots, so Caitlin has to take over. She truly does enjoy seeing her teammates doing well (scoring) and loves to dish, but ultimately she wants to win. This has played out many times the past two years.

Last night's game was fun; first time I've seen Indiana this year and they are good. Plenty of height but not super athletic either. Great job of defense by them, especially on Czinano. They could go far in the tourney. Rematch on February 26th should be equally entertaining.

 

[The deacon]

I agree that Clark isn’t really pg, though she plays one on TV. She’s really a shooting guard with excellent handles. She’s a good passer to be sure, but she’s too important as a shooter to this team. Can Marshall really not play the point for Iowa? I wonder if Bluder isn’t making a mistake here.

I love Berger and Holmes — actually a better version of Clark and Czinano because they know how to involve the rest of the team better.

I had better hopes for Iowa after they lost to UConn. They threatened in the 2nd and 3rd quarters until collapsing in the 4th. Their scoring was more evenly distributed, with Marshall and Martin and Warnock having bigger roles. IU beat them too, but it was a close game, closer than I expected. They played a lot like Iowa. As a result, I expect UConn will beat IU if it comes to it and everyone’s healthy. I hope we see that game.

Clark and Czinano know well how to involve the rest of the team. Fact of the matter is that Indiana's 'rest of the team' is better than Iowa's.

As for Gabbie Marshall, she's playing because she's a good defensive player. She is not a point guard. When Caitlin's not at the point, it's transfer Molly Davis. Warnock is a solid contributor, and Martin plays hard, but that 6 of 6 from three vs. UConn was her Warholian 15 minutes.

As for UConn beating Indiana in the tournament, I surely hope so, but I also do believe it'll take Caroline and/or Azzi to play significant minutes.