Is Courtney Vandersloot the Greatest Point Guard of All Time?

[MilfordHusky]

This thread is so depressing. Only one person here actually believes the answer to the thread's titular question could possibly be yes.

So it just serves as an opportunity for people to be negative about a great player.

I like Sloot. She's an exciting player and an excellent passer. Her individual highs may be comparable to Sue's, and she passes Sue in assists per game for a season or two, but she needs to be excellent for another 6-8 years to have a comparable career.

 

[UConnCat]

That's a very nice mix of individual AND team accomplishments. The 11 All-Star selections are a record. Sloot has 2.

In addition, Sue is the most decorated player in USA Basketball and FIBA history. (Her lanky teammate in Seattle is on pace to match or surpass Sue's FIBA totals, but she is more than a decade behind.)

That last item--freaking Bronze medal--still motivates Sue. Sue does not like Bronze!

After Seattle won its 2nd WNBA title in 2010 Sue Bird said: "I judge myself as a player based on winning. That's how I judge myself." Against that metric, she's pretty good.

Agler coached her. "Sue is one of the best players in the world," Seattle coach Brian Agler said. "She has this ability to rise up in big moments. When the team really needs big plays, she's extremely skilled. But her biggest attribute is her ability to make her team better. Every season, she just keeps amazing me with how smart she is and the decisions that she makes."

Sue hasn't only played with other great players. She has led those teams and made her teams better.

 

[MilfordHusky]

After Seattle won its 2nd WNBA title in 2010 Sue Bird said: "I judge myself as a player based on winning. That's how I judge myself." Against that metric, she's pretty good.

Agler coached her. "Sue is one of the best players in the world," Seattle coach Brian Agler said. "She has this ability to rise up in big moments. When the team really needs big plays, she's extremely skilled. But her biggest attribute is her ability to make her team better. Every season, she just keeps amazing me with how smart she is and the decisions that she makes."

Sue hasn't only played with other great players. She has led those teams and made her teams better.

I believe she called out MVP Lauren Jackson for not running the play that was called. Sue is the E.F. Hutton of the WNBA.

 

[MilfordHusky]

 

[MilfordHusky]

Funny how this could be posed after Sue Bird's heroics last year.

When you are playing against the GOAT, who is at the top of her game and has never lost a winner-take-all game, you have to be really good.

 

[bballnut90]

Sloot is a better passer than Bird IMO but in terms of greatness Sue is far ahead. People point out that Sloot hasnt had the same caliber of teammates (Sue has won all titles alongside DT, Lauren Jackson and Breanna Stewart) but at the end of the day winning counts for a lot and Vandersloot hasn't won any major championships. I dont put much credence in World Championships or Olympic Golds since the USA is so far ahead of anyone else and it honestly comes down to if a player makes a team or not (which a lot of times comes down to politics), but Bird is far ahead in the WNBA and NCAA title department.

At the end of the day Sue usually wins games and elevates her game in the clutch. She always knows when to step up and take over. We've seen that many times throughout her career. We really havent seen that from Courtney. If a game is on the line and you have one possession left, which one do you want making the decision on what to do on the last play? I'd pick Sue every time over Sloot.

 

[mbr33ct]

2019 WNBA.com GM Survey: Best Players and Coaches

Who is the best point guard in the WNBA?
1. Sue Bird, Seattle Storm – 67%
T-2. Diana Taurasi, Phoenix Mercury; Courtney Vandersloot, Chicago Sky – 17%

Which player is the best passer?
1. Courtney Vandersloot, Chicago Sky – 42%
2. Sue Bird, Seattle Storm – 33%
3. Chelsea Gray, Los Angeles Sparks – 17%
4. Candace Parker, Los Angeles Sparks – 8%

Which player is the best leader?
1. Sue Bird, Seattle Storm – 83%
2. Nneka Ogwumike, Los Angeles Sparks – 17%

Which player has the highest basketball I.Q.?
1. Sue Bird, Seattle Storm – 67%
2. Diana Taurasi, Phoenix Mercury – 17%
T-3. Candace Parker, Los Angeles Sparks; Elizabeth Williams, Atlanta Dream – 8%

Which player is the best at making her teammates better?
1. Sue Bird, Seattle Storm – 83%
T-2. Nneka Ogwumike, Los Angeles Sparks; Breanna Stewart, Seattle Storm – 8%


2019 WNBA.com GM Survey: Best Players and Coaches - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

 

[bbsamjj]

I agree that this is kind of a silly thread, on a UConn board no less. However, I'm sure Dawn Staley would LOVE to have Courtney Vandersloot as an option at PG right now for team USA. Vandersloot, who is 7-8 years younger than Bird and Whalen, kind of got stuck behind them in a USA basketball sense, and then decided to become a Hungarian citizen to have a chance at becoming an Olympian. She is not the first great WNBA player (see: Becky Hammon, Kristi Toliver) to make this move, as USA basketball, for whatever reason, sometimes just misses on players who are very worthy of at least having tryouts (Katie Douglas and Vicki Johnson appear top of mind).

 

[UConnCat]

I agree that this is kind of a silly thread, on a UConn board no less. However, I'm sure Dawn Staley would LOVE to have Courtney Vandersloot as an option at PG right now for team USA. Vandersloot, who is 7-8 years younger than Bird and Whalen, kind of got stuck behind them in a USA basketball sense, and then decided to become a Hungarian citizen to have a chance at becoming an Olympian. She is not the first great WNBA player (see: Becky Hammon, Kristi Toliver) to make this move, as USA basketball, for whatever reason, sometimes just misses on players who are very worthy of at least having tryouts (Katie Douglas and Vicki Johnson appear top of mind).

Vandersloot did not become a Hungarian citizen so she could become an Olympian. Hungary's chances of making the Olympics is pretty close to zero with or without Sloot. Her decision was about making more money on her club team. I said at the time that I hoped she sat down with Carol Callan and USA Basketball before making that decision but I don't know if that ever happened.

 

[FedupFred]

Not after yesterday's game.
Stink
Stank
Stunk

 

[bbsamjj]

Vandersloot did not become a Hungarian citizen so she could become an Olympian. Hungary's chances of making the Olympics is pretty close to zero with or without Sloot. Her decision was about making more money on her club team. I said at the time that I hoped she sat down with Carol Callan and USA Basketball before making that decision but I don't know if that ever happened.

Ah, my bad on the facts then. either way, she's been on USA basketball's orbit, just never enough to make the push past bird or whalen.

 

[UConnCat]

Ah, my bad on the facts then. either way, she's been on USA basketball's orbit, just never enough to make the push past bird or whalen.

True, though as I mentioned above, Whalen didn't make her first WNT until she was 28 years old. I sat watching Plum and Clarendon struggle in Tenerife last year and wondered if VanderSloot mght have been on the World Cup team had she remained in USA BB's orbit. Oh well.

 

[WiseOne]

Short answer: NO
Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Her team lost last night in the playoffs. She missed 7 of ten shots taken. Otherwise, 4 rebounds, a steal and 12 assists.

BTW, Vandersloot is listed as the all-time WNBA leader in assists per game in playoff games.

All Time Leaders

The all time official leaders for the NBA.

stats.wnba.com

So I'll let this go now. Sue is tremendous. Just wonder whether we'll see Vandersloot greatness acknowledged in the future.

We'll see.....

 

[Vowelguy]

So I'll let this go now. Sue is tremendous. Just wonder whether we'll see Vandersloot greatness acknowledged in the future.

We'll see.....

If you wanted to have a thoughtful discussion, you would've phrased the subject as "Will CV _become_ the greatest ever." But to go the more aggressive route and argue that a player with no titles, no Olympics, and 2 W all-star appearances in 9 years is already the greatest was bound to inflame.
Why do I think you already knew that?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

If you wanted to have a thoughtful discussion, you would've phrased the subject as "Will CV _become_ the greatest ever." But to go the more aggressive route and argue that a player with no titles, no Olympics, and some good stats is already the greatest was bound to inflame.
Why do I think you already knew that?

Sorry, but a player who after nine years is the leading point guard in assists per game, registered the three highest seasons with average assists per game, and leads the WNBA in assists per game in playoff games, deserves a discussion as to whether she's the best point guard.

Last year, Jacob de Grom won the Cy Young award, while winning just nine games with the lowly New York Mets. One has to look at individual metrics of greatness, and not just whether one has been excellent on great teams.

I was being "thoughtful," not "aggressive", and had no intention to "inflame." Indeed, I believe that comment is out of bounds.

 

[Justavisitor]

Bird is more offensive minded. She's much better at calling her own number and she's a much better scorer. It's been a rare occurrence for Sloot to even average double digits in scoring.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Just checking. Scoring average was totally overrated in the ROY debate, but in this comparison it's important, is that correct? Just want to make sure. FTR their career scoring averages aren't that far apart, 12.1 ppg compared to 9.7 ppg. I think "much better scorer" is stretching it. Difference of 2.4 ppg? Maybe getting Sloot confused w/ Penicheiro, who averaged 6.1 ppg.

 

[CTBballfan243]

She is already ranked 6th in total assists, and first in assists per game. She's recorded 6.2 assists per game, compared with 5.6 by Sue Bird. She's getting better with age, having put up 9.1 assists/game this past season, her best ever. Indeed, each of the past three years, she's set a new personal record. She's about to move up from sixth all-time to fifth all-time, as she only 23 assists behind the great Becky Hammon.

All Time Leaders

The all time official leaders for the NBA.

stats.wnba.com

Is she better than Sue Bird was? I know it sounds like heresy to pose the question. But the numbers she's been putting up are astounding. Is she that good?

Simple answer......,,, NO!!!!!

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Bird is more offensive minded. She's much better at calling her own number and she's a much better scorer. It's been a rare occurrence for Sloot to even average double digits in scoring.

But V averages just under 10 points per game, while Sue's career average is just over 12 ppg. Not a huge difference there.

 

[Waquoit]

I'm as big a fan of UConn as anyone, but just wonder whether V and Sue might be closer than we emotionally want to admit.

That is just silly. Before today, I never once heard or read anyone of note posit that this player was better than Sue Bird.

 

[Waquoit]

Come on now, she had no chance of making any Olympic teams w/ Bird and Whalen firmly entrenched throughout her entire career.

Doesn't that support the no answer? How can one claim she's the best all-time today when she couldn't beat out an old lady just a few years ago?

 

[mbr33ct]

Just checking. Scoring average was totally overrated in the ROY debate, but in this comparison it's important, is that correct? Just want to make sure. FTR their career scoring averages aren't that far apart, 12.1 ppg compared to 9.7 ppg. I think "much better scorer" is stretching it. Difference of 2.4 ppg? Maybe getting Sloot confused w/ Penicheiro, who averaged 6.1 ppg.

Not correct. In the end, IMO the ROY award had nothing to do with "average scoring" and had everything to do with being more than a "one dimensional player"...as is the case with this other topic.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Of course the title of this thread on a UConn board makes me LOL, because of course it's meant to stir the pot. I haven't watched much WNBA over the years but did watch some of the Sky-Aces game Sunday. Sloot looked excellent and there is little argument she was the best PG in the league this year. Her figures have improved with age and she likely still has some great years left.

Bird is to me the all time best point guard but I can't deny playing with Lauren Jackson and Breanna Stewart helped get her those titles. If EDD and or Fowles elected to remain in Chicago perhaps the Sky would have been more successful. As far as the Olympics, Sloot got caught behind Bird and Whalen. Hammon (and to an extent Parker in 16) found themselves on the outside of an organization that has the luxury of a deep talent base and seems to be highly political. I hope Bird and Taurasi are able to make a go of it in 2020 and stay healthy. Sloot would have probably been on the World Team last year with all the injuries and no shows for lack of a better word.

There is no reason to tear down either woman in order to proclaim one is "the best".

 

[Carnac]

I believe she called out MVP Lauren Jackson for not running the play that was called. Sue is the E.F. Hutton of the WNBA.

She did. That video has been featured by a poster here in the yard.