Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[kibblesnbits]

Are you certain you are not a WVU fan?

Absolutely sure. I just find it annoying that an ND fan would go on a UConn site and announce that UConn belongs in the ACC, but has rightfully been kept out, as if anyone on this end could do anything about its alleged shortcomings (short of creating the artificial history that you apparently didn't find amusing). Go sell it to your peers in the league because that's where the opposition came from that kept it from happening already. In the meantime, don't be shocked when UConn fans are fed up with the ACC's antics and praying for a better option.

Edit: BTW, Does anyone think that Louisville was ever in the ACC's plans before they panicked because the general collapse of their football prowess league-wide threatened to drive away the two remaining upper level teams? Why would anyone count on their being much of a strategy behind the league's expansion process?

 

[Fishy]

Are you certain you are not a WVU fan?

Now, you're being a .

Stay or go - either way, knock it off.

 

[btstimpy]

Of course, UConn would absolutely take an ACC offer if one came (and the Big 10 wasn't willing to counter). That doesn't mean it wouldn't make me happy beyond measure to see the Big 10 make a play thereby cutting off the ACC's northern tier (BC, Syracuse and Pitt) into isolated outposts that truly show how misguided their expansion moves have been.

As for Swofford having UConn (with the support of the league's old guard) in his vision only to be over-ruled by power plays from a few schools, if true that just confirms that the league's realignment "strategy" has been driven by politics and short-term considerations (i.e. panic and desperation) rather than a real plan.

Don't make the assumption that that ACC's old guard reluctantly invited Louisville or was deperate. Louisville sold themselves very well during that week after Maryland left, and the ACC expansion committee had already vetted many schools. I don't expect Louisville's athletic department to come into the ACC and bomb. I think they will do much better in the ACC than Rutgers and Maryland will do where they're going. That's just my personal opinion.

I would very much like to see UConn invited, and I do think the vision is to go past 15 to 16 members and perhaps beyond. I don't think that the Big Ten cut anything off either. The ACC has had Boston College in the Northeast all alone for a decade. Now they have some friends.

 

[Stray_Dog]

Over the long run, the Big 10 is a much more stable conference than the ACC. The Big 10 is made up primarily of state flagship universities. The ACC is made up of everything from state flagship universities, religious schools, private schools, second fiddle state universities, and a hybrid member. That is not a recipe for long stability! Eventually, the goals and ambitions of the schools in the ACC will diverge, similar to what happened to the Big East.

What do you mean, not long...It has ND. ND is good for stability...how soon we forget about the original Big East!!!

 

[rocky rococo]

No, it is an explanation for why UConn is not now in the ACC. There are valid reasons, all football related, that UConn has not already been invited into the ACC. UConn fans need to face those reasons. Your AD certainly has too, because neither the ACC nor the BUG will make an offer, ever, if your AD remains bitter and refuses to see how UConn failed to do what it should have early enough to position itself for realignment.

My guess is that your AD has already done that.

Again, I don't see how that answers, or even addresses, my question about your prior comment.

 

[sdhusky]

(Edit - I flipped through the media guide looking for the game we played at Virginia - it was just a mess of a game. UConn was up 29 in the first half and it ended 77-36.)

I remeber that game because that was the first time I saw Ray Allen play. And was blown away by his shooting. Everything was net.

 

[Stray_Dog]

That's garbage and anybody with sense knows it. In the ACC, your basketball with Syracuse would burn brighter than ever. Your games with Duke and North Carolina would quickly become almost as hot. Your games with us would intensify.

And then there is BC in all sports. The only New England rivalry would get red hot. It would matter down in your bones.

Yeah but in women's Basketball we are nothing but bullies...according to your coach. With ND, this is how it starts, our support will erode with ND women's basketball and soon after your men's basketball will have issue with us, and then your football team which is currently 0-1 against UConn. So, and I don't mean to be blunt, but I question ND's support for UConn both short term and certainly long term. We already know they will look out for themselves and when UConn tries to do the same thing....we are blackballed.

I also view ND as the Judas of college football! If you can change my perspective you might be able to win over some others...Turning UConn blue as I hold my breath in anticipation!

 

[kibblesnbits]

Don't make the assumption that that ACC's old guard reluctantly invited Louisville or was deperate. Louisville sold themselves very well during that week after Maryland left, and the ACC expansion committee had already vetted many schools. I don't expect Louisville's athletic department to come into the ACC and bomb. I think they will do much better in the ACC than Rutgers and Maryland will do where they're going. That's just my personal opinion.

I would very much like to see UConn invited, and I do think the vision is to go past 15 to 16 members and perhaps beyond. I don't think that the Big Ten cut anything off either. The ACC has had Boston College in the Northeast all alone for a decade. Now they have some friends.

UConn's football history may be brief, but Louisville has absolutely no history as an academic institution on the level the ACC used to claim for its members. There's no way that UVa, Duke, GT, etc. consider UL to be one of their academic peers. The league sold one of its distinctions down the river because it panicked over its football standing.

Edit: As for BC now having friends, they are 300+ miles from each other in a densely populated part of the country. It's an issue of mindshare density. Two private schools and a non-flagship public won't bring the continuous chain of interest required. I grew up in Albany, and while Syracuse does have a small fan base there, the combination of BC and Syracuse (each about 150 miles away) does little to create an ACC-centric following in that area. Similarly BC-Pitt and Pitt-Syracuse don't give you the type of 1+1=5 mindshare required to build great media ratings.

 

[Stray_Dog]

I hope you are kidding. ND has history with the BUG that goes back to before WWI, history in which the BUG has done a great deal to try to harm ND. We do not not trust the BUG, at all.

....and now you know how we feel about the ACC...Michigan is to the Big Ten is to ND as BC is to the ACC is to UConn

 

[Stray_Dog]

I think most of the long-time fans on this board are basketball fans. We would have loved nothing more than an invite to the ACC along with our conference rivals - Cuse/Pitt and certainly Lville. We dreamed about playing Duke and UNC on a regular basis and how awesome it would be to be part of an ACC tourney in NYC. For a variety of reasons, it didn't come to pass.

As this conference realignment process has dragged out, I think UConn fans have increasingly begun to consider the idea (hopefully) of an invite to the B1G. It's not the same from a basketball standpoint, but there seems to be less animosity and more mutual respect for our accomplishments and what we as a University can bring to the table. We all know that UConn's resume isn't perfect. We lack the football history/tradition, we don't have a Harvard-sized endowment, and we are not AAU (yet). However, we are a University on the rise both athletically and academically - we are investing where it matters and we are committed to the value of sports. In addition, games (football/basketball) against Michigan, MSU, Indiana, OSU, etc are beginning to sound pretty cool -- especially as we start to build rivalries and history like the Elite 8 game.

At the end of the day, we want nothing more than to sit at one of the big boy tables -- and I think we believe we have a tremendous amount to offer to the ACC and the B1G today and into the future. We are scared to death about our long term fate, but the more we perform on and off the court the stronger case we can make when/if the next round occurs.

I think we all feel a little better when outsiders come to the board and tell us that they'd love us in the conference and can't believe we weren't selected because it gives us hope that others see what we do. However, we know in our heart of hearts that no one really knows what a conference commissioner and a bunch of collegiate presidents will ultimately do. So we wait and we build and we hope.

Dude, I wish could like that post a thousand times!!!

 

[Stray_Dog]

How is this a good thing????

Because it makes ND look better in the Northeast....

 

[Yawkey Way]

UConn's football history may be brief, but Louisville has absolutely no history as an academic institution on the level the ACC used to claim for its members. There's no way that UVa, Duke, GT, etc. consider UL to be one of their academic peers. The league sold one of its distinctions down the river because it panicked over its football standing.

.

I always chuckled when the BC's, Syracuse, ND's of the world talked about the importance of aligning with " similar academic insitutions ". This was coming afterall from schools that willingly alligned in the BE, with West Virginia.

As for the ACC, I don't think " they panicked " . I think they were caught offguard by Maryland bolting to the Big. So they looked around for a replacement, and they chose Louisville over Cincy and Uconn... and I don't think the ACC cared a wit about the " academics " at Louisville. As always, the decision was made by the ACC that in in their assessment Louisville football brought a bit more to the table football revenue wise than Uconn football revenue wise at the present time. I can't say if that decision was the right one or not re. football revenues to be generated, only that it appears that was the majority thinking of the schools in the ACC right now it would appear.

 

[BCINGYA]

I think most of the long-time fans on this board are basketball fans. We would have loved nothing more than an invite to the ACC along with our conference rivals - Cuse/Pitt and certainly Lville. We dreamed about playing Duke and UNC on a regular basis and how awesome it would be to be part of an ACC tourney in NYC. For a variety of reasons, it didn't come to pass.

As this conference realignment process has dragged out, I think UConn fans have increasingly begun to consider the idea (hopefully) of an invite to the B1G. It's not the same from a basketball standpoint, but there seems to be less animosity and more mutual respect for our accomplishments and what we as a University can bring to the table. We all know that UConn's resume isn't perfect. We lack the football history/tradition, we don't have a Harvard-sized endowment, and we are not AAU (yet). However, we are a University on the rise both athletically and academically - we are investing where it matters and we are committed to the value of sports. In addition, games (football/basketball) against Michigan, MSU, Indiana, OSU, etc are beginning to sound pretty cool -- especially as we start to build rivalries and history like the Elite 8 game.

At the end of the day, we want nothing more than to sit at one of the big boy tables -- and I think we believe we have a tremendous amount to offer to the ACC and the B1G today and into the future. We are scared to death about our long term fate, but the more we perform on and off the court the stronger case we can make when/if the next round occurs.

I think we all feel a little better when outsiders come to the board and tell us that they'd love us in the conference and can't believe we weren't selected because it gives us hope that others see what we do. However, we know in our heart of hearts that no one really knows what a conference commissioner and a bunch of collegiate presidents will ultimately do. So we wait and we build and we hope.

Well written and classy. Great to see someone write with such passion and clarity. Sharing your thoughts and opinion without tearing down other schools. Good job, of rightfully extolling the virtues of U Conn and what the school has to offer. Your view of the C.R. situation and how it has affected the U Conn fan base is clear, concise, and honestly raw. Impressive stuff.

 

[btstimpy]

UConn's football history may be brief, but Louisville has absolutely no history as an academic institution on the level the ACC used to claim for its members. There's no way that UVa, Duke, GT, etc. consider UL to be one of their academic peers. The league sold one of its distinctions down the river because it panicked over its football standing.

Edit: As for BC now having friends, they are 300+ miles from each other in a densely populated part of the country. It's an issue of mindshare density. Two private schools and a non-flagship public won't bring the continuous chain of interest required. I grew up in Albany, and while Syracuse does have a small fan base there, the combination of BC and Syracuse (each about 150 miles away) does little to create an ACC-centric following in that area. Similarly BC-Pitt and Pitt-Syracuse don't give you the type of 1+1=5 mindshare required to build great media ratings.

Academically there wasn't a top 50 institution available to replace Maryland other than Tulane or Rice, and Maryland isn't top 50 itself. I would have preferred UConn though, but Louisville did a hard sell. Louisville's current President has doubled the graduation rate at his school since he's been there, and he convinced the ACC Presidents that the academic initiatives he is implementing will move Louisville up the chart. Then Tom Jurich really did a good job of selling the athletic plans and successes that he plans for the school as well as his academic initiatives for student athletes. You are correct in that Duke and UVA don't consider Louisville an academic peer. But weighing all factors and listening to the things all 14 other members were considering important, they selected Louisville this time.

All I know about the media ratings is that the past 2 most recent Syracuse-Duke basketball games were the highest rated regular season games in ESPN history. The ACC is starting off well in the ratings department for basketball. On the college football side, there are only really 2 schools that get traction in the northeast on TV (Penn State and Notre Dame). The ACC will now be getting some traction with Notre Dame. It would be more if they joined fully, but the ACC will be getting some with the 5 games per year.

 

[pj]

Edit: As for BC now having friends, they are 300+ miles from each other in a densely populated part of the country. It's an issue of mindshare density. Two private schools and a non-flagship public won't bring the continuous chain of interest required. I grew up in Albany, and while Syracuse does have a small fan base there, the combination of BC and Syracuse (each about 150 miles away) does little to create an ACC-centric following in that area. Similarly BC-Pitt and Pitt-Syracuse don't give you the type of 1+1=5 mindshare required to build great media ratings.

BC is 263 miles from Syracuse, 483 miles from Pitt, 493 miles from Charlottesville, 538 miles from Blacksburg, 618 miles from Chapel Hill, 825 miles from Louisville. That's as the crow flies, not by road. I don't think their island has gotten much less isolated. College Park was 387 miles from BC, and more readily reachable by air than Syracuse. The ACC is arguably no farther ahead in penetrating the northeast than it was before the Syracuse/Pitt/Louisville additions and Maryland subtraction.

 

[btstimpy]

BC is 263 miles from Syracuse, 483 miles from Pitt, 493 miles from Charlottesville, 538 miles from Blacksburg, 618 miles from Chapel Hill, 825 miles from Louisville. That's as the crow flies, not by road. I don't think their island has gotten much less isolated. College Park was 387 miles from BC, and more readily reachable by air than Syracuse. The ACC is arguably no farther ahead in penetrating the northeast than it was before the Syracuse/Pitt/Louisville additions and Maryland subtraction.

The northeast likes college basketball as much as it likes college football. That's why the Big East and Atlantic 10 thrived. The Syracuse addition has helped the ACC penetrate the Northeast some particularly with regular games with UNC and Duke. I think UConn would add a lot to that. I don't think BC and Pitt get a ton of Northeast mindshare. The Northeast is a Pro Sport area. In college football, the Notre Dame addition albeit partial did more for ACC penetration in the Northeast than anything else. Penn State is the only other school that fills big stadiums and is dominant in the region.

You are probably correct in that the ACC isn't much further ahead in penetrating the northeast with Pitt/Syracuse/Louisville especially for football. But I think the ACC has to some degree with basketball.

 

[kibblesnbits]

Academically there wasn't a top 50 institution available to replace Maryland other than Tulane or Rice, and Maryland isn't top 50 itself. I would have preferred UConn though, but Louisville did a hard sell. Louisville's current President has doubled the graduation rate at his school since he's been there, and he convinced the ACC Presidents that the academic initiatives he is implementing will move Louisville up the chart. Then Tom Jurich really did a good job of selling the athletic plans and successes that he plans for the school as well as his academic initiatives for student athletes. You are correct in that Duke and UVA don't consider Louisville an academic peer. But weighing all factors and listening to the things all 14 other members were considering important, they selected Louisville this time.

All I know about the media ratings is that the past 2 most recent Syracuse-Duke basketball games were the highest rated regular season games in ESPN history. The ACC is starting off well in the ratings department for basketball. On the college football side, there are only really 2 schools that get traction in the northeast on TV (Penn State and Notre Dame). The ACC will now be getting some traction with Notre Dame. It would be more if they joined fully, but the ACC will be getting some with the 5 games per year.

If the ACC presidents were stupid enough to fall for that then they really have no right to question anyone's academics. Improvement rates don't mean much unless you know the baseline. Since Louisville's most recent CDS lists their 4 year graduation rate as about 26% and the 6 year rate as 54% (versus 67% and 82% respectively for UConn) things must have been at sub-Boise State levels before Ramsey's arrival 12 years ago. I'm sure some of it is due to economics, but that's still abysmal.

I have no problem with any league deciding that academic standards are not relevant to membership, but I don't ever want to hear another lecture from anyone in the ACC about the superior quality of their schools.

 

[upstater]

Academically there wasn't a top 50 institution available to replace Maryland other than Tulane or Rice, and Maryland isn't top 50 itself. I would have preferred UConn though, but Louisville did a hard sell. Louisville's current President has doubled the graduation rate at his school since he's been there, and he convinced the ACC Presidents that the academic initiatives he is implementing will move Louisville up the chart. Then Tom Jurich really did a good job of selling the athletic plans and successes that he plans for the school as well as his academic initiatives for student athletes. You are correct in that Duke and UVA don't consider Louisville an academic peer. But weighing all factors and listening to the things all 14 other members were considering important, they selected Louisville this time.

All I know about the media ratings is that the past 2 most recent Syracuse-Duke basketball games were the highest rated regular season games in ESPN history. The ACC is starting off well in the ratings department for basketball. On the college football side, there are only really 2 schools that get traction in the northeast on TV (Penn State and Notre Dame). The ACC will now be getting some traction with Notre Dame. It would be more if they joined fully, but the ACC will be getting some with the 5 games per year.

Do you really believe that the President convinced the Presidents at Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech that he was improving the academics at Louisville? I mean, it really is central to their job to know the lay of the land.

 

[Ldandy]

If there weren't enough reasons to hate Pitt already, now we know they conspired with The ACC and ND to keep UCONN out of a P5 Conference. Sounds plausible to me.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I could have agreed with you had the ACC taken a strategic approach to realignment. They didn't. They bounced from opportunity to opportunity like a kid running the aisles of Toys R Us.

The idea that UConn was ignored because we would always be available was ludicrously short-sighted. You know who was always going to be there? Miami, that's who. Syracuse, that's who. The thing that scares me about the ACC is they lack vision, they lack leadership, and they will likely fail to be anything more than an afterthought.

Say what you want about the ACC's expansion strategy or lack therof. But at least they got a Notre Dame Football commitment in writing and did not have to invent one after the fact from press releases.

Now I was adamant that no conference should ever get more than 4 games from us a year, but the presence of Pitt and BC allowed me to rationalize it on the grounds that we would be playing them anyway. In fact BC was technically a loser because they are the only team that is getting fewer ND games as a result of the ACC deal. OF course they caught lightening in a bottle getting into the ACC in the first place.

 

[btstimpy]

Do you really believe that the President convinced the Presidents at Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech that he was improving the academics at Louisville? I mean, it really is central to their job to know the lay of the land.

Louisville made that pitch. I have not personally spoken with the Presidents at Duke, UVA , and GT about it, but all three gave the green light for Louisville's invite. There was also some talk of inviting Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn. Something slowed that down, and only Louisville was added to replace Maryland. That's when John Swofford called Mike Aresco and said that there would only be one.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Warde Manuel has gone back and created an artificial football history for UConn in the 50s, 60s and 70s? I'll bet we have a few fake Heisman winners mixed in their too. The old timers remember when they built the first ever dome over Memorial Stadium and expanded capacity to 60,000. Those were the days.

You keep saying that UConn's lack of history is the problem that UConn must address (How precisely does one address a lack of history short of waiting another 30 years?) but that is apparently no longer the case because we are now apparently perfect for the ACC. Was it the history making wins in the last three games of the 2013 season that changed things?

Lastly, I loved learning about the wrongs Michigan did to ND in the early to mid 20th century.....and I thought BC really knew how to hold a grudge for a long time. They are amateurs compared to ND.

Ask Bama, A&M, and Michigan for ideas on how to improve your college football history. The key is fictitious titles Or,

http://www.theonion.com/articles/notre-dame-football-announces-improvements-to-its,1824/

Some guy on the internet said that FSU picked Louisville. It fits so I believe it. It also helped that the Papa Johns guy backs UL with big $$$, just as Okie Lite became competitive because TBone Pickens bankrolled them. Does UConn have a Godfather and will he do it for football?

I wish it was just early to mid 20th century, but the nepotism at scUM makes it a permanent objective in their program: destroy Notre Dame. They've blatantly rigged football games with their BUG refs and used their influence to limit our scheduling and bowl access. oh and their Athletic Dept taunted us at the Out House . And before someone mentions that we 'chickened out' by replacing them with Texas, know that David Brandon had been telling people he was going to cancel the series, just as Michigan had already cancelled it thrice already.

 

[btstimpy]

Say what you want about the ACC's expansion strategy or lack therof. But at least they got a Notre Dame Football commitment in writing and did not have to invent one after the fact from press releases.

Now I was adamant that no conference should ever get more than 4 games from us a year, but the presence of Pitt and BC allowed me to rationalize it on the grounds that we would be playing them anyway. In fact BC was technically a loser because they are the only team that is getting fewer ND games as a result of the ACC deal. OF course they caught lightening in a bottle getting into the ACC in the first place.

A lot of people discount this as the ACC caving, and the ACC did cave on its policy to some extent. But this is a big deal to have Notre Dame give up part of its football schedule to a conference to manage. This is unprecedented.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

A lot of people discount this as the ACC caving, and the ACC did cave on its policy to some extent. But this is a big deal to have Notre Dame give up part of its football schedule to a conference to manage. This is unprecedented.

Yeah our tea leaf readers said that our independence was effectively over and Jenkins would try to sneak us into the ACC later. Maryland's spot opening was just too soon.

And back on topic, there is nothing keeping UConn out of the ACC except politics and lawyers. The latter is because P5 conferences won't expand until the unionization and O'Bannon lawsuits play out.

 

[Adios]

Louisville made that pitch. I have not personally spoken with the Presidents at Duke, UVA , and GT about it, but all three gave the green light for Louisville's invite. There was also some talk of inviting Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn. Something slowed that down, and only Louisville was added to replace Maryland. That's when John Swofford called Mike Aresco and said that there would only be one.

As much as people think conferences completely despise each other, I tend to think UConn and Cincinnati were left behind to help the other AAC schools get some stronger credibility. I don't get into the BS drama, really. But at this point, the B1G East looks far better on paper.

 

[Adios]

Yeah our tea leaf readers said that our independence was effectively over and Jenkins would try to sneak us into the ACC later. Maryland's spot opening was just too soon.

And back on topic, there is nothing keeping UConn out of the ACC except politics and lawyers. The latter is because P5 conferences won't expand until the unionization and O'Bannon lawsuits play out.

If ND DOES become a full member, I can see the ACC being quick to take up UConn. Better hurry up.

 

[upstater]

Louisville made that pitch. I have not personally spoken with the Presidents at Duke, UVA , and GT about it, but all three gave the green light for Louisville's invite. There was also some talk of inviting Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn. Something slowed that down, and only Louisville was added to replace Maryland. That's when John Swofford called Mike Aresco and said that there would only be one.

I'm talking about the academic part.

 

[upstater]

Yeah our tea leaf readers said that our independence was effectively over and Jenkins would try to sneak us into the ACC later. Maryland's spot opening was just too soon.

And back on topic, there is nothing keeping UConn out of the ACC except politics and lawyers. The latter is because P5 conferences won't expand until the unionization and O'Bannon lawsuits play out.

There will be more lawsuits soon enough. There is no way some of those P5 rules are going to go over the likes of the AAC and MWC and such without a lawsuit.

 

[Seaa Blue]

A lot of people discount this as the ACC caving, and the ACC did cave on its policy to some extent. But this is a big deal to have Notre Dame give up part of its football schedule to a conference to manage. This is unprecedented.

"Unprecedented" for ND is first selling your soul to a conference and then as a result trading easy access to New York City, DC and Michigan for territory occupied or bordered by the SEC.

 

[btstimpy]

"Unprecedented" for ND is first selling your soul to a conference and then as a result trading New York City, DC and Michigan for territory occupied by the SEC.

ND still has New York City. They have 2 games there against Syracuse in the next 3 years. And if they want to play in DC, Navy will do it any time they want. Notre Dame did give up Michigan. This is true.