Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[NotreDameJoe]

I have been saying this for a while now. Even though the Michigan/Big 10 slights were a while back, ND people will never forget them and will dislike the Big Ten forever.

If the anti-ACC animus of UConn fans is deep and real (and I believe it is), then UConn fans should understand the deep dislike by ND of the Big Ten.

Factor that in whenever you hear someone say "ND is a natural fit in the Big Ten". That conference is the last choice and worst case scenario for ND. It doesn't matter if "local rivals" are there, or reduced travel costs or even a lot more TV money were available there.

I say that even if full membership in the ACC or Big Ten were the only choices. I strongly believe that ND would choose the ACC, even for less cash. Not many ND fans, alumni or administrators want ND to join the Big Ten, no matter what.

ND turned down the Big Ten in 1999 and rejected Jim Delany's "overtures" after 2010 (full court press or alleged "checkmate"---read the sports "journalists" then anointing Jim Delany as the "smartest man in sports" because they thought he had "checkmated" ND into joining because of the BTN revenues).

ND has completely cast its lot with the ACC, including the exit fee, GOR and the contract that requires ND to join the ACC if it decides to join a football conference before 2027.

That was a complete, total and hopefully final rejection by ND of the Big Ten. I think the latter finally got the message and has since moved on, hopefully.

ND is not going to join the Big Ten.
.

You should spoiler tag this. I actually like the fan fic that puts us in the BUG

 

[Yawkey Way]

if the ACC now asked us to join, I would be very cautious, I would want to know why up front. Therefore UConn would have to spin this in a very positive way for their fans. ..

if the ACC senses that Uconn football is going to put the ACC thru an inquisition as to why it is inviting them, and the school is going to be under the heat of its fans to explain why it should leave the AAC for the ACC, then this will present Uconn the school some problems on deciding how to proceed if they get the invite. Why would an ACC invite need convincing if the payout in 22 -25 million, and right now the AAC payout is 2 mlliion ? If you had a company that wants to up your current income that your current employer is paying you by 10 fold, do you need " convincing to spin this in a very positive way for you " " as to why you should give up your current employer ? Say you are making 100,000 per year, and a another company wants to pay you 1 million per year, how " cautious " are you really going to be ? Are you going to tell them... " let me think about it ?

 

[Stray_Dog]

if the ACC senses that Uconn football is going to put the ACC thru an inquisition as to why it is inviting them, and the school is going to be under the heat of its fans to explain why it should leave the AAC for the ACC, then this will present Uconn the school some problems on deciding how to proceed if they get the invite. Why would an ACC invite need convincing if the payout in 22 -25 million, and right now the AAC payout is 2 mlliion ? If you had a company that wants to up your current income that your current employer is paying you by 10 fold, do you need " convincing to spin this in a very positive way for you " " as to why you should give up your current employer ? Say you are making 100,000 per year, and a another company wants to pay you 1 million per year, how " cautious " are you really going to be ? Are you going to tell them... " let me think about it ?

It doesn't but if we don't ask them, why are you inviting us now when we were rejected several times before, then how would we know what it is that is now working and making us so attractive? How would we know what to do to continue to make ourselves attractive not only to the ACC but to a P5. My cautious attitude comes from the stability of Big East 2.0 - meaning the ACC not the C-7! ...And they don't need to convince us to join, that is pretty simple, the invite alone will do that - but certainly we would want to know why we are attractive to them now??? I don't think this would be bad, in fact it lets them know that we are not going to let our guard down, our productive nature slip, or our competitive nature go by the way side. However, we would want to concentrate our efforts on what made us look good so we can make ourselves even more attractive to their conference and other P5 conferences in the future. Being in, staying in, but being the most appealing university within their collection of schools is what UConn I suspect would want to drive to!

To clarify, they rejected us and suddenly we get an invite. Why would we not ask, why now? And do the asking in a constructive way like you were on a job interview. In the meantime, they should certainly have volunteered for your information why you are attractive to them. You listen to their reasons and hope it aligns with any relevant changes to your resume since the last time you interviewed. If you cannot find the synergies, then you need to be tactful on how you can glean this information from them. When they ask if you have any additional questions, you might want to raise the point of things you heard. I.E. is the ACC looking to get its own network from a network such as ESPN? Would tier three rights be affected? Knowing all this you may now have an answer as to why you were attractive? ...and it could be something else?

Please take the following with tongue and cheek
Don't assume that as a Fan speaking on a Blog, that I wouldn't know tact? Come on, Man! I am a fan, and as such I can say whatever I want but sure, if my speech was suddenly going to have an impact on the ACC inviting UConn, I would use a lot more decorum and would not be visiting this message board. Do you see SG or WM or KV or GA visiting here? If I thought my voice was the voice that got us in or out of the ACC, one - I would be crazy, two - I would an Arrogant SOB, and three - I would be blocked from board!

 

[BlueMAB]

If I thought my voice was the voice that got us in or out of the ACC, one - I would be crazy, two - I would an Arrogant SOB, and three - I would be blocked from board!

Two out of three isn't bad. Nelson has never been blocked.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I

To clarify, they rejected us and suddenly we get an invite. Why would we not ask, why now?
!

I suppose it would be the timing. Nobody can go back in time. The question being posed here is a forward thinking question as to whether or not Uconn should need " convincing " should it get a future invite to move from the AAC to the ACC. I think going from a league with a current 2 million dollar payout to one with 22-25 million is sufficient reason alone not to ask to be " convinced " to go to the ACC instead of remaining in the AAC . If the future invite comes, it seems to me that it will be football related and because Uconn will have won the AAC ( or got to the Title game there ), and then it won't need any more " convincing " by the ACC to UConn 's fan base that it needs to be " cautious " as the poster stated above and require" further convincing" that leaving the AAC for the ACC is much better than staying in the AAC and waiting for a better opportunity in another P5 Conference that may or may not materialize later for Uconn.

 

[itgoeslike]

I think the Big Ten is the best solution in terms of stability and where UConn wants to go as a university. But, I certainly wouldn't advocate turning down any P5 offer. I will say this, accepting an ACC offer would ratchet up our rivalries with both old and new foes, because I would relish kicking the crap out of some of these schools based upon what has transpired over the past two years. . .

Edit: Payback's a be-atch.

 

[4BostonEagle]

Maybe BC fades into " obscurity". in football in the future, and then again, maybe it won't. BC went to a Bowl Game last year while it was in transition under its its new 1st year head football coach.. and was even with eventual football National Champion FSU into the 4th quarter before FSU ultimately prevailed., and had its RB make the Heisman Finalist selection round for the national TV telecast Awards in NYC... and its 2013 football recruiting from all reports is up over anything seen from its last 5 years. So I'm quite not sure how you arrive at your assessment that BC football is " fading into obscurity". Thats an overblown assessment that has your hate clouding your thinking perhaps ,... but then again, everyone of course is entitled to their own assessments on what they observe as well.

Agree - BC will be fine long term. The AD looks to be very solid and the new football coach has assembled a staff that can clearly win and recruit. It's funny to hear UCONN fans with their revenge fantasy scenarios especially after their football season last year.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I certainly wouldn't advocate turning down any P5 offer.

quote]
Yes, I can't understand Uconn ( or any P5 fanbase for that matter ) needing to be " cautious " or " need convincing " if the ACC provides an invite to them. If I was unmarried, and some wealthy and beautiful young women finds me " attractive ". I don't need to ask " why ", nor need to have anyc ompelling need to ask "why ". I immediately say : " take me.. I'm all yours ".

 

[Yawkey Way]

Agree - BC will be fine long term. The AD looks to be very solid and the new football coach has assembled a staff that can clearly win and recruit. It's funny to hear UCONN fans with their revenge fantasy scenarios especially after their football season last year.

Ease up Man.. they are in transition in football too.
Although a case could be made that Hathaway's hiring of Syracuse retread Pasqualoni did more damage to UConn football than anything ND, BC, Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse did to UConn football and its chances to get to a P5 Conference. What the hell was Uconn thinking hiring a guy that was already way over the hill and had already been canned by Syracuse ? PP was even worse as a hire than BC moving Spaziani up from Def. Coord. to Head Coach a couple of years back.

 

[itgoeslike]

Just because I wouldn't turn down a P5 offer, doesn't mean there wouldn't be some level of trepidation. It's like having someone want to be your "buddy" after they've been bad mouthing you behind your back for the last couple of years.

 

[SouthronCross]

not really SC Nebraska only lost it(AAU) after being in the B1G about 11 monthes IIR? UMich voted with 1 or 2 other B1G schools nay on UN even though they were now conference brothers i think?

Yes really, Nicky. The B1G knew Nebraska was losing its AAU status before they would be joining the league, and, they still voted them in.

If memory serves, it was Michigan and Wisconsin who were most against them being admitted once the news that they were losing their AAU status came out.

 

[SouthronCross]

Before Nebraska was added to the B1G, Michigan and Nebraska were at work rigging their ouster from the AAU.

I believe it was Michigan and Wisconsin who wanted to boot Nebraska for losing their AAU status.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I believe it was Michigan and Wisconsin who wanted to boot Nebraska for losing their AAU status.

While it has been widely speculated on the Interwebs that Michigan and Wisconsin played a part, I don't think we have any hard information regarding Nebraska's AAU membership and who was against it. That said, it does seem to be quite plausible that Michigan and Wisconsin favored the enforcement of stricter criteria.

In any case, to then say that Michigan and Wisconsin wanted Nebraska out of the Big Ten... I think that's a bridge too far. I would like to see any hard (or soft) evidence of that.

 

[SouthronCross]

While it has been widely speculated on the Interwebs that Michigan and Wisconsin played a part, I don't think we have any hard information regarding Nebraska's AAU membership and who was against it. That said, it does seem to be quite plausible that Michigan and Wisconsin favored the enforcement of stricter criteria.

In any case, to then say that Michigan and Wisconsin wanted Nebraska out of the Big Ten... I think that's a bridge too far. I would like to see any hard (or soft) evidence of that.

You are correct, and, I had my stories crossed. Actually, it was UM and Wiscy who voted to oust Nebraska from the AAU, not the B1G.

http://journalstar.com/news/local/e...cle_19188dda-afe7-57c8-aa2c-c1939ec5acb4.html

 

[upstater]

While it has been widely speculated on the Interwebs that Michigan and Wisconsin played a part, I don't think we have any hard information regarding Nebraska's AAU membership and who was against it. That said, it does seem to be quite plausible that Michigan and Wisconsin favored the enforcement of stricter criteria.

In any case, to then say that Michigan and Wisconsin wanted Nebraska out of the Big Ten... I think that's a bridge too far. I would like to see any hard (or soft) evidence of that.

The ex-PSU president Graham Spanier wrote emails about the AAU strategy to the Nebraska Pres. long before Nebraska was added. As the ex-Pres. of Nebraska himself, Spanier was a critic of the moves Michigan and Wisky were making. Spanier had backup from the Northwestern Pres.

The emails, recovered through a FOIA request, showed that a committee with Michigan chairing it and Wisky as the second ranking member convened to toss out Nebraska and two others, but when Michigan realized it didn't have the votes to do so, it then dissolved the committee and then worked to reconstitute it in 9 months with enough members to oust Nebraska. And that's what happened, but this occurred shortly after Nebraska was added. If Michigan allowed the vote to be taken in the prior year, Nebraska would not have been ousted from the AAU.

The old Pres. of Wisky (now Pres. of Amherst College) was interviewed about the addition of Nebraska to the B1G, and though she said glowing things about them, she also stated that the membership of Nebraska in the AAU didn't come up once for consideration when admitting NU into the B1G (which makes sense, when you think about it).

 

[btstimpy]

okay but its pretty tough to get UCLA ooc.

Happy Easter Huskies.

UCLA comes to Charlottesville on August 30. Unfortunately, I'm worried that we don't have a team to stay on the field with them and will embarrass ourselves again just like with Oregon last season. Our AD needs to make sure we have a football team to compete before scheduling opponents like this. And we are not supposed to be in the PAC 12 Conference. It is driving UVA fans crazy.

 

[btstimpy]

There are certainly parallels. You've asserted that the Big Ten took action to shut out ND and undermine its growth in terms of stature and revenue. Many view ACC past actions as well as the P5 power grab as having the same impact.

I don't see anyone in the ACC trying to organize boycotting of UConn in scheduling like what happened to Notre Dame in the midwest. I think UVA and UConn have an upcoming football series. Don't create conspiracies that aren't real. There have been reports and posts here about Syracuse and Boston College wanting a recruiting advantage, but the ACC has 15 members, not just 2. There is no conspiracy against UConn.

 

[itgoeslike]

I don't see anyone in the ACC trying to organize boycotting of UConn in scheduling like what happened to Notre Dame in the midwest. I think UVA and UConn have an upcoming football series. Don't create conspiracies that aren't real. There have been reports and posts here about Syracuse and Boston College wanting a recruiting advantage, but the ACC has 15 members, not just 2. There is no conspiracy against UConn.

Historical specifics aside, one only has to look at comments from BC's former athletic director that detailed his efforts to lobby against UConn to know tangible actions have taken place. Your example of the UConn/UVA series, which was in the works prior to the latest round of CR and P5 efforts to separate, doesn't hold water. It's the only P5 game on UConn's schedule through 2016. Real enough? In any event, the main point flew right over your head, unless you think being shut out of P5 revenue, bowls and scheduling is an advantage. Based upon your response, it's possible you just might.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I don't see anyone in the ACC trying to organize boycotting of UConn in scheduling like what happened to Notre Dame in the midwest.

No general boycott ever happened.

If we're talking about Michigan, Michigan also quit the Big Ten for 10 years. Somehow that never got conveniently categorized as a "boycott".

 

[Seaa Blue]

Don't create conspiracies that aren't real.

What you said

 

[btstimpy]

No general boycott ever happened.

If we're talking about Michigan, Michigan also quit the Big Ten for 10 years. Somehow that never got conveniently categorized as a "boycott".

I'm talking about Fielding Yost. He was the coach at Michigan. He played ND in football in 1909 and lost. He then dropped Notre Dame from the Michigan schedule, and after that he organized the rest of the Western Conference to also drop Notre Dame. It was not until 1917 that ND could get anyone in the Western Conference to play ND until Indiana and Purdue relented and ended the boycott. Fielding Yost never scheduled Notre Dame again, and he was at Michigan until 1940. From 1910 to 1977 Michigan and Notre Dame played exactly 2 football games.

To me this is a boycott. It may not be seen that way to some, but it sure looks like it to me.

 

[btstimpy]

Historical specifics aside, one only has to look at comments from BC's former athletic director that detailed his efforts to lobby against UConn to know tangible actions have taken place. Your example of the UConn/UVA series, which was in the works prior to the latest round of CR and P5 efforts to separate, doesn't hold water. It's the only P5 game on UConn's schedule through 2016. Real enough? In any event, the main point flew right over your head, unless you think being shut out of P5 revenue, bowls and scheduling is an advantage. Based upon your response, it's possible you just might.

I don't think P5 schools are intentially not scheduling UConn. UConn played Michigan recently, and UVA will be. The UConn AD needs to work on adding some more if he wants to play more. The bowl thing is real. The traditional bowls want teams from the P5 that have a history of filling up bowl stadiums. But I see where several new bowls have been added to accomodate the growth in FBS level teams in the MAC, AAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA. New bowls are not a bad thing. The one in Charlotte is relatively young, and it's a fun one to go to.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I'm talking about Fielding Yost. He was the coach at Michigan. He played ND in football in 1909 and lost. He then dropped Notre Dame from the Michigan schedule, and after that he organized the rest of the Western Conference to also drop Notre Dame.

He dropped them because back in the Wild West days he thought that Rockne imported some of his "student/athletes" from the south side of Chicago. So, yes, Yost and Rockne were probably not the best of pals.

Back to your point and my point, Michigan was not in the Big Ten from 1908-1916. So all that "organizing" going on after the 1909 loss... Michigan wasn't back in the conference until 1917. So I don't know how much "organizing" he realistically was likely doing given that he was mad at the conference about new scheduling rules, and the conference was likewise probably not very happy with him.

 

[itgoeslike]

I don't think P5 schools are intentially not scheduling UConn. UConn played Michigan recently, and UVA will be. The UConn AD needs to work on adding some more if he wants to play more. The bowl thing is real. The traditional bowls want teams from the P5 that have a history of filling up bowl stadiums. But I see where several new bowls have been added to accomodate the growth in FBS level teams in the MAC, AAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA. New bowls are not a bad thing. The one in Charlotte is relatively young, and it's a fun one to go to.

UConn will likely leverage recent success and add more P5 schools to the schedule, and may have added Illinois even though not formally on the schedule as of yet. I'll be sure pass along your recommendations to WM, especially the part about "needs to work on adding some more." But, you're missing the main point. What the ACC has done, and what the P5 conferences are attempting to do, has the potential to substantially disadvantage UConn. Considering our numerous championships, budgets, and academic trajectory, it's natural for some fans to harbor a level of resentment. You should have picked up on this by now.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Just because I wouldn't turn down a P5 offer, doesn't mean there wouldn't be some level of trepidation. It's like having someone want to be your "buddy" after they've been bad mouthing you behind your back for the last couple of years.

While this is a pretty good analogy, to add more realism to the analogy, the people that surround you now as your new " buddies " ( in the AAC )may just as quickly in time be as bad, or even much much worse. You might find that, in general, the ACC football fans might have a higher regard for Uconn football right now than do the other football fans among the other schools in your new AAC football league. I don't knjow this for a fact, but just as something to consider thats all,, once the Cincy, Houston, SMU, Central Florida, South Florida, etc football fans start popping up to tell you what they think of Uconn football compared to themselves and whatnot. Under such a scenario, most Uconn football fans might not have to be " convinced " at all to take an ACC invite should it materialize, and won't give them any " trepidation " re. the invite at all. But who knows. Maybe Uconn football fans as you stated above will need lots of " convincing " on whether to accept an ACC, or stay in the AAC with their other new " buddies " and wait for a better offer in one of the other P5 Conferences. I don't think its the concern however for Uconn football fans that you think it will be, should an invite come.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

The bigot Fielding Yost didn't have a problem playing the Catholics until we won a game. THEN he cancelled the game the night before the game and started the boycott.

Crisler tried to get the other BUG teams not to play ND either. The ban only ended because Michigan dropped off in importance as WW2 became smaller in the rear view mirror.

UCLA comes to Charlottesville on August 30. Unfortunately, I'm worried that we don't have a team to stay on the field with them and will embarrass ourselves again just like with Oregon last season. Our AD needs to make sure we have a football team to compete before scheduling opponents like this. And we are not supposed to be in the PAC 12 Conference. It is driving UVA fans crazy.

Didn't you just get some #1 position recruits? UVa football could become good at any moment. I think you will get some good press with ESPN pimping the ACC.

 

[itgoeslike]

While this is a pretty good analogy, to add more realism to the analogy, the people that surround you now as your new " buddies " ( in the AAC )may just as quickly in time be as bad, or even much much worse. You might find that, in general, the ACC football fans might have a higher regard for Uconn football right now than do the other football fans among the other schools in your new AAC football league. I don't knjow this for a fact, but just as something to consider thats all,, once the Cincy, Houston, SMU, Central Florida, South Florida, etc football fans start popping up to tell you what they think of Uconn football compared to themselves and whatnot. Under such a scenario, most Uconn football fans might not have to be " convinced " at all to take an ACC invite should it materialize, and won't give them any " trepidation " re. the invite at all. But who knows. Maybe Uconn football fans as you stated above will need lots of " convincing " on whether to accept an ACC, or stay in the AAC with their other new " buddies " and wait for a better offer in one of the other P5 Conferences. I don't think its the concern for Uconn football fans that you think it will be, should an invite come.

I made it pretty clear when I said: "I certainly wouldn't advocate turning down any P5 offer."

I'm not sure what you're talking about above. From my perspective, and in the absence of options, it is purely financial-driven (not buddy driven). I used the analogy to illustrate why some fans would still have some level of residual disdain for the ACC. However, virtually all fans recognize the advantages of being in a P5 conference and wouldn't need convincing. Once there, UConn will take care of the rest.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I made it pretty clear when I said: "I certainly wouldn't advocate turning down any P5 offer."
.

I understand this, and never said that you'd support turning down a P5 Conference invite. I merely responded to the assessment you made above that ( your quote ) you'd " need convincing " to take the ACC invite should it ever come. I just don't think any convincing would be needed at all by Uconn football fans ( well, 95% anyway ). They'd take the ACC invite in a hesrtbeaat. More importantly as to how decisions are made, Uconn football officials wouldn't need " convincing ". They'd take the ACC invite before the ink was dry.... and who could possibly blame them for not needing to think about it or need any " convincing " and any of that silliness ?

 

[Yawkey Way]

If UConn gets an invite to the ACC them I will be an ACC fan. Until then, screw 'em. .

This makes sense too. As CSNY song says:... " if you can't be, with the one you love, love the one you're with " ( and these old men now certainly practiced this policy over and over again when they were touring as young muscians in their Band )

 

[itgoeslike]

I understand this, and never said that you'd support turning down a P5 Conference invite. I merely responded to the assessment you made above that ( your quote ) you'd " need convincing " to take the ACC invite should it ever come. I just don't think any convincing would be needed at all by Uconn football fans ( well, 95% anyway ). They'd take the ACC invite in a hesrtbeaat. More importantly as to how decisions are made, Uconn football officials wouldn't need " convincing ". They'd take the ACC invite before the ink was dry.... and who could possibly blame them for not needing to think about it or need any " convincing " and any of that silliness ?

OK, but again, I'm not sure how my post implied that I would need convincing, especially in the absence of other options. I was trying to impart that after getting snubbed several times, it's not unusual that there would be some residual resentment. Although, moving forward there would be 20-28 million reasons to work through it.