Iowa 76 - Michigan St 73

[triaddukefan]

Must have been a heck of shot cause i got an alert on my phone. Hope the teams meet again in East Lansing. I kinda vaguely remember there was some controversy when these two teams squared off last season.

The chippiest game (both teams) that Iowa played last year in conference play was at Michigan State. Clark got an intentional foul late in overtime that nearly cost Iowa the game. So no one from the Iowa side was sleeping on Sparty, and MSU had a score to settle.

MSU is also a really tough matchup for Iowa. Sparty is more athletic than Iowa, with more scoring options. In Clark’s 3-4 minutes on the bench, Iowa was minus 6.

I guess i need to watch what i say about Sparty

 

[Plebe]

 

[TheFarmFan]

Yes, last night my AppleTV also interrupted my TV show to alert me that MSU was on "upset watch" late in the fourth.

Whatever else anyone thinks, it's hard to argue that Caitlin Clark hasn't become the best "brand ambassador" for women's college basketball in a long, long time. She's probably singlehandedly responsible for at least 1/4 of the growth in eyeballs on the sport over the past two seasons. There's simply no way an early January Iowa-MSU WBB game is making breaking news and Sports Center first-segment highlights without her.

 

[cancontent]

Must have been a heck of shot cause i got an alert on my phone. Hope the teams meet again in East Lansing. I kinda vaguely remember there was some controversy when these two teams squared off last season.


I guess i need to watch what i say about Sparty

Sorry to disappoint, but this isn't a home and home series this year.

 

[Vowelguy]

Not only that, but her "give the official the game ball" implies that the bad call decided the game. .

And that Iowa didn’t legitimately win.

 

[hoopsfan22]

Wow that was an amazing shot by Clark. So many of her shots are from ridiculous range. I can see why she gets so much attention as she's probably the most entertaining player in the game right now.

 

[BobbyJ]

Just saw the game winning 3 point shot. I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the “James Harden” 3 steps she’s allowed to get those step-backs off. Those left-right-left jump steps are very clear on the replay. Has the travel rule been changed for the college game too?

 

[Brewski]

All these "Dunning-Kruger" types who continue their baseless criticisms of Clark are simply drawing even more attention to Clark's superb basketball accumen. Like many others, I am drawn to Clark's greatness and I'm having a hell of a good time watching her play the game she loves.

 

[visitingcock]

Haha I see that the "I Hate Caitlin" voodoo doll is getting lots of work tonight.

As I noted elsewhere, Michigan State is no cupcake. Number 26 in Massey and #14 in the NET. Knowledgeable WBB fans were aware that this team can surprise some folks. Anyone who actually watched the game came away with respect for the opponent rather than disdain for the victor.

It amazes me how much attention people give to AP/Coaches polls. NET is what matters. Mich State is a Quad One team even when you play them on your home floor. Good win for Iowa.

 

[IArick]

We've had some discussion about it in the weekly thread:

Week 9 - Jan 1 to 7

Happy new year BY! Here are upcoming games for top 25 teams, along with a few "friends", per the usual:

the-boneyard.com

Late in 4Q, Iowa player shot-faked from 3 and got the MSU defender in the air, then went to dribble and was fouled as defender crashed into her. Clearly NOT in the act of shooting, was called a shooting foul, hit 2 of 3 free throws.

Dawn is right about the bad call but I agree it's highly inappropriate, albeit par for the course.

Then Dawn started blocking all Iowa related twitter handles, including those that have never engaged with her.

 

[The deacon]

Just saw the game winning 3 point shot. I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the “James Harden” 3 steps she’s allowed to get those step-backs off. Those left-right-left jump steps are very clear on the replay. Has the travel rule been changed for the college game too?

.... and in high school and pro ball, too, BobbyJ. Curry and many others regularly travel, and I think if you'd go back and watch Azzi on many of her threes, she has employed that quick three-step, too. And then you have Harden's occasional 4- or 5-step routine.

Basketball long ago gave up on following its own rules. Pretty much everybody carries the ball when dribbling down the court, and travelling is rampant. Caitlin does it with some of her threes, the most egregious that killer at the buzzer vs. Indiana last March.

 

[Plebe]

Then Dawn started blocking all Iowa related twitter handles, including those that have never engaged with her.

Lol typical. She loves to mouth off but no one else is allowed to.

 

[IArick]

And there were other situations that also impacted the final score. As I noted in the weekly thread, the unsportsmanlike conduct foul on Tate for Mich State also had impact. Free throws with the clocked stopped and an extra possession to Iowa in the fourth? Not a good thing if you ask me.

Tate should have been T’d up in the first half when she went after the ref when she vehemently disagreed with a call. Argued all the way down the court. Tate also came with intent on that arm swing.

 

[Plebe]

Tate should have been T’d up in the first half when she went after the ref when she vehemently disagreed with a call. Argued all the way down the court. Tate also came with intent on that arm swing.

I don't agree there was "intent" other than being overly demonstrative. If she'd wanted to hit her opponent she would've swung behind her and not to the side where nobody was standing.

Commentators said the intentional foul was called for the contact as she stepped away with the other defender who'd fallen in front of her.

As for arguing with with the officials while running down the court, Tate must have learned that from Clark

 

[hoopsnloops32]

It amazes me how much attention people give to AP/Coaches polls. NET is what matters. Mich State is a Quad One team even when you play them on your home floor. Good win for Iowa.

But NET isn't a good tool for evaluation. Its like RPI, it just tells the the quality of wins and losses but there are ways to game that system. Massey to me is a much better tool for evaluation which has Michigan St around 25 - 30 range

 

[Plebe]

Just saw the game winning 3 point shot. I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the “James Harden” 3 steps she’s allowed to get those step-backs off. Those left-right-left jump steps are very clear on the replay. Has the travel rule been changed for the college game too?

It's no different than the standard hop-step into the shot that is technically a travel but virtually never gets called, including against the UConn players who do it.

 

[cohenzone]

Haven't seen it online, but it's in reference to a foul where Molly Davis got to shoot 3 free throws. She looked like she was about to dribble after faking out Hagemann who fouled her.

It was a call a rec league ref would get right. No way was she still in the act of shooting. But refs don’t affect a game.

Clark is a great player who hit a great shot at the end, but taking almost a shot a minute is, let’s say, different. .

 

[triaddukefan]

Imagine if Clark had gone to Notre Dame. There would have had to have a new separate sub-forum just for those threads

 

[cancontent]

Tate should have been T’d up in the first half when she went after the ref when she vehemently disagreed with a call. Argued all the way down the court. Tate also came with intent on that arm swing.

I don't agree there was "intent" other than being overly demonstrative. If she'd wanted to hit her opponent she would've swung behind her and not to the side where nobody was standing.

Commentators said the intentional foul was called for the contact as she stepped away with the other defender who'd fallen in front of her.

As for arguing with with the officials while running down the court, Tate must have learned that from Clark

1). I agree with @Plebe's point about Clark. She's known for arguing for calls in a similar fashion and it seems to be tolerated. Tate does have a challenge with composure but to make it seem she was the only one from both teams being guilty of it isn't a fair statement.

2). The arm swing looked to be in reaction to Davis pulling on her arm while trying to tie her up for a jump ball. Could it be to make a point to the ref to make a call? Don't know, but it wasn't intentional as you perceive it to be. The refs got the leg kick/push call right in my opinion and she was assessed accordingly.

 

[newfrontier]

Dawn Staley has a point. The refs practically handed the win to Iowa (or at least made things more favorable for Iowa and more stressful and difficult for MSU at the end of the game) when, with around 30 seconds left to play and MSU and Iowa tied at 71-71, a phantom "in the act of shooting" foul was called against Hagemann of MSU. Replay CLEARLY showed that the Iowa player, Molly Davis, was in the act of dribbling, not shooting, yet Davis was awarded 3 foul shots for a foul type that was never committed. Davis promptly made 2 of her 3 foul shots. Hagemann, did foul Davis, but it should have been a nonshooting foul. If the correct call had been made by the refs, there would have been no free-throws for Iowa because it would have been only MSU's 4th foul of the quarter. Iowa would have had to successfully execute a tricky inbound pass from the left sideline. Instead, it is MSU which is tested by having to inbound the ball under pressure after the Iowa free throws. Also, the bad call by the refs probably saved Iowa from having to call and use up one of its timeouts at this juncture, with the score now having them ahead 73-71, rather than tied at 71-71. (note - Iowa may have still had 3 of its 4 alloted timeouts still available at this point). However, the stoppage was never-the-less like a free timeout for Iowa. Besides, to be able to score more points (in this case 2 points from 2 free throws) with the clock stopped is a great advantage for Iowa. (ie. this is exactly what Iowa wanted...score points and retake the lead with the clock stopped!) Now MSU goes full court and Hagemann ties the game again, this time at 73-73...then Clark comes back with her game winning 3 point dagger. The bottom line is, change the foul made by MSU on Davis from a shooting foul to a non-shooting foul and it is easy enough to imagine different scenerios where MSU wins or MSU and Iowa tie and go into overtime.For example, without the 2 made free throws by Davis, maybe Hagemann still makes a 2 point basket which puts MSU up by 2 points instead of tied. Iowa would then be down 71 to 73 and under more pressure to make the last shot. Or, maybe MSU steals the ball if Iowa tries to and has to inbound it after a non-shooting foul (instead of the phantom shooting foul), or......or....

 

[BobbyJ]

It's no different than the standard hop-step into the shot that is technically a travel but virtually never gets called, including against the UConn players who do it.

Great. So why are they still wasting time calling the armbar/pushoff and illegal/moving screens since everybody wants to use them?

 

[Plebe]

Imagine if Clark had gone to Notre Dame. There would have had to have a new separate sub-forum just for those threads

I actually wonder if Clark gets more attention from UConn fans than from Iowa fans

 

[The deacon]

Imagine if Clark had gone to Notre Dame. There would have had to have a new separate sub-forum just for those threads

Or maybe even to Duke, Triad. Of course, that old venom from UConn fans (and many others) toward your school basically was regarding the Blue Devils' men's teams, or rather just a few individuals.

 

[The deacon]

I actually wonder if Clark gets more attention from UConn fans than from Iowa fans

Could be, Plebe. It seems to stem from envy because Caitlin has gotten to enjoy four seasons, while the Huskies' similarly gifted icon, Paige, has missed so much court time.

To me, as I've said many times here, let's just celebrate we have both players to admire and cheer for...

 

[The deacon]

Dawn Staley has a point. The refs practically handed the win to Iowa (or at least made things more favorable for Iowa and more stressful and difficult for MSU at the end of the game) when, with around 30 seconds left to play and MSU and Iowa tied at 71-71, a phantom "in the act of shooting" foul was called against Hagemann of MSU. Replay CLEARLY showed that the Iowa player, Molly Davis, was in the act of dribbling, not shooting, yet Davis was awarded 3 foul shots for a foul type that was never committed. Davis promptly made 2 of her 3 foul shots. Hagemann, did foul Davis, but it should have been a nonshooting foul. If the correct call had been made by the refs, there would have been no free-throws for Iowa because it would have been only MSU's 4th foul of the quarter. Iowa would have had to successfully execute a tricky inbound pass from the left sideline. Instead, it is MSU which is tested by having to inbound the ball under pressure after the Iowa free throws. Also, the bad call by the refs probably saved Iowa from having to call and use up one of its timeouts at this juncture, with the score now having them ahead 73-71, rather than tied at 71-71. (note - Iowa may have still had 3 of its 4 alloted timeouts still available at this point). However, the stoppage was never-the-less like a free timeout for Iowa. Besides, to be able to score more points (in this case 2 points from 2 free throws) with the clock stopped is a great advantage for Iowa. (ie. this is exactly what Iowa wanted...score points and retake the lead with the clock stopped!) Now MSU goes full court and Hagemann ties the game again, this time at 73-73...then Clark comes back with her game winning 3 point dagger. The bottom line is, change the foul made by MSU on Davis from a shooting foul to a non-shooting foul and it is easy enough to imagine different scenerios where MSU wins or MSU and Iowa tie and go into overtime.For example, without the 2 made free throws by Davis, maybe Hagemann still makes a 2 point basket which puts MSU up by 2 points instead of tied. Iowa would then be down 71 to 73 and under more pressure to make the last shot. Or, maybe MSU steals the ball if Iowa tries to and has to inbound it after a non-shooting foul (instead of the phantom shooting foul), or......or....

Wore me out with this one, newfrontier... a good summation, however.

 

[newfrontier]

Not only that, but her "give the official the game ball" implies that the bad call decided the game. It came at a critical time, yes, but MSU tied the game after that. A correct call of a foul "on the floor" would have awarded Iowa a possession and who knows, maybe Iowa would have hit a 3 instead of only making 2 free throws. Lots of things could've happened differently.

Dawn's call-out of the bad call and her token lip service to "heckuva shot but..." (without naming the shooter) hints at a leftover taste of sour grapes from April. Her name is Caitlin Clark, Dawn.

Without the bad call against MSU the game could have been decided in favor of MSU within a reasonable set of possibilities. We will never know what the outcome would have been, but I can easily imagine several realistic, possible scenerios where MSU wins or the game goes into overtime if the foul shots by Davis never take place. To me, the bottom line is MSU deserved a better (and by better I mean fairer) opportunity to win than the one forced upon it by the bad call.

 

[Plebe]

Without the bad call against MSU the game could have been decided in favor of MSU within a reasonable set of possibilities. We will never know what the outcome would have been, bug I can easily imagine several realistic, possible scenerios where MSU wins or the game goes into overtime if the foul shots by Davis never take place. To me, the bottom line is MSU deserved a better (and by better I mean fairer) opportunity to win than the one forced upon it by the bad call.

Or it might have played to Iowa's benefit. We'll never know. Iowa might have hit a 3-pointer on the ensuing possession rather than just making 2 free throws. Or might have missed the 3-pointer but gotten the offensive rebound and then ... All sorts of things could have happened differently. There's no way to know how it would have played out and to whose benefit.

 

[cancontent]

Regardless of the final calls, Mich State did show a lot of mettle and composure to stay in this game in Iowa where it's tough to play. With several players out due to injuries, including a couple gone for the season, they've managed to adjust and compete.

They don't have a true post and have 2 guards, Ozment and Aryault, handling the 5 position majority of the time. Thought Iowa would try to take advantage of that but they didn't to the extent I thought they would. Also thought Iowa would have a rebounding advantage between Stuelke and Goodman which didn't happen.

 

[Plebe]

Regardless of the final calls, Mich State did show a lot of mettle and composure to stay in this game in Iowa where it's tough to play. With several players out due to injuries, including a couple gone for the season, they've managed to adjust and compete.

Are Alexander and Elliott gone for the season?

 

[HuskyNan]

Imagine if Clark had gone to Notre Dame. There would have had to have a new separate sub-forum just for those threads

Shhh. I finally got people to stop complaining about Skylar