Indiana & other top teams go down (merged thread)

[Pharos]

The question is Tony...
Do we really play and look like a Final-4 team?
Forget (for a second) about the other guys.

We were certainly better today...
Perhaps by default...Who knows?

Look at the shooting percentages. Number of shots taken pretty good. TOs pretty good. OBs also good

 

[SLY63]

I can't believe I am saying this, but I will give Charlie the benefit of the doubt for now. He still has UConn on the 3 line as the #9 overall seed. But if we march through the BE tourney with a healthy roster of 10, I cannot imagine we would be below #5 overall

 

[broooce]

Good question. I know there have been coaches in both mens and womens hoops who don't like conference tourneys and would rather do away with them.

But I'm sure they make money for the conferences, and the tv networks, and Vegas has to love having a bunch of people rolling into town since they host at least 4 conference tourneys now. I guess that's the best answer as to why have them, because they generate money (and drama and interest too).

As far as giving the auto bid to the tourney winner rather than the regular season champ, that's a decision the conferences make. For P5 conferences they probably look at it as a way to maybe get one more bid for their conference. For mid majors, maybe they get one more bid, or maybe they risk their best team not getting to go to the Tourney. There are some leagues that are just always gonna be only 1 bid, so you could have a terrible team get hot for 3 days and get into the Dance.

I think the Ivy League was one of the last to add a conference tournament, which they did in 2017. Only the top 4 of the 8 teams qualify, so at least the season stands for something. This season the league could send two teams to the NCAA tournament, Columbia and Princeton, which I believe is the first time they will have done that for either women or men (Creme's bracketology). IMO the Ivy tournament adds the same kind of excitement and possibility to teams in the league to make the NCAA tournament and in so doing help with overall league recruiting, quality of teams, competitiveness and ultimately some success in the tournament. Last year Princeton upset Kentucky in the first round and lost to Indiana by only one.

The only thing I don't like is that the Ivies decided on a court rotation system for the tournament, that is, over eight years each school will get to host the tournament. To me that's ridiculous and antithetical to a goal of increasing the league's prominence in either the men's or women's game. Really, what is the benefit of having a tournament in a college gym in Hanover, NH, Ithaca, NY, Princeton, NJ or even Providence, RI when you could be playing in a NYC/Philly/Boston area arena? Or at least have a venue like Mohegan Sun or the XL Center? "A rising tide lifts all boats" and the Ivy League can do better and help themselves to build upon their current success. Especially since it seems that their long-standing policy of not offering athletic scholarships could soon change. Like Stanford, many academically strong young women who also happen to be very good athletes might find the Ivies a compelling place to play and get a degree.

 

[UConnCat]

Creme just posted and then deleted a tweet saying:
'Well really, we had TN properly ranked back in the preseason, so a #4 v #5 match up can really go either way and LSU should not be penalized for being on the losing end. I said all along that TN should be a top 10 team and at worst a 4 seed.'

I would hope he'd delete that. He had Tenn preseason #4, as in a 1 seed, not "at worst a 4 seed." He had LSU as #14 or a 4 seed. His favorite phrase is "I was right all along." Not this time.

 

[mbr33ct]

Big 10 is a tough conference. You can make an argument that Big 10 was the best Women's Conference this year. An argument could be made for the PAC 12 as well. Big 10 and PAC 12 were the best Women's Conferences this year.

I can't make an argument the Big10 conference was the best Women's Conference this year, not by a long shot. By all available rankings (these from WarrenNolan) the Big 10 Conf is #5 in RPI, #5 in NET and #5 in ELO...the lowest of the so called P5 conferences, one notch above the Big East. Unless you also call the Big East a tough conference then I'm with you on the Big 10.

...and agree on the PAC-12 as the #1 Conference.

 

[CTinLA]

Creme just posted and then deleted a tweet saying:
'Well really, we had TN properly ranked back in the preseason, so a #4 v #5 match up can really go either way and LSU should not be penalized for being on the losing end. I said all along that TN should be a top 10 team and at worst a 4 seed.'

Seriously? He’s ignoring the entire regular season and reaching back to preseason rankings to justify this garbage. Unbelievable!

 

[Zarathustra]

Disagree. They’re 7th in SOS while LSU is 82nd, they have 10 ranked wins to LSU’s one. Not even close.

Nice clarification, Much appreciated,

 

[Bone Dog]

The conference tournaments seem a little overblown. I’m not sure they’re really necessary.

But since they all have them, from the point of view of the NCAA tournament, it’s one more bit of info on how teams are playing at the right time of year. February games matter more than January games and January matters more than December, etc. March games have to matter at least as much as February games, especially as the give a sort of forecast of how teams will handle the pressure of single elimination.

 

[Bigboote]

Here's my hot take: WAY too much importance is placed on a few days at the beginning of March. Why does one game take more precedence than a 16-20 game conference schedule? I've never liked how worked up everybody gets over conference tourneys. It's been proven that there is little correlation between how teams do in conference tourneys and how they do in the NCAA Tourney, so there is absolutely no reason why it should be treated as some kind of litmus test.

I'd say maybe a little too much importance is given to the Conference tourneys. (If any importance is given to the NET, then I'd say way too much importance is given to the NET.)

Thing is, I think the panel should give more weight to recent games, the "what have you done for me lately" thing. And the conference tourney is what the teams have done lately. Early exits may reveal some flaws in teams that lose to low-quality opponents, and the later rounds can shed light on how some teams (LSU) play against higher-quality opponents. If Ohio State beats Michigan, Indiana, and Iowa three consecutive nights, I don't care whether it's the tournament or not, that should really polish up their resume. Same thing if Washington State wins out against Utah, Colorado, and UCLA. Virginia Tech, OTOH, will only meet one ranked team in the ACC tourney, so I'm not sure if that's enough to get them to a one seed even winning the tournament.

 

[hoopsfan22]

The conference tournaments seem a little overblown. I’m not sure they’re really necessary.

True for all sports really. When you play enough games, you don't need a tournament or post-season to determine the best team. After playing all the teams twice over the course of 2 months, is there anyone that doubts UConn is the best team in the conference?

 

[ME Husky Fan]

Angel was ok until she extended her arm

I think that was. Our old friend Dee Kantner making the call

 

[Tonyc]

Those top team losses will allow a team who is not ranked to get a chance to make the NCAAs. That means some bubble teams may get knocked out. The top teams will still get a bid to the NCAAs. A team who may not have made it now have a chance to make it.

 

[Carnac]

At least Kim didn't go out on the court like she did in last year's Tournament walking out half way to yell at the ref. She should have been T'd up on it.

No. She just cried and whined on the sidelines in disbelief. The game was too close for her to put her team further in the hole by getting a technical foul. Kim is a lot of things, but she's not stupid.

IMO Kim is a very good coach. Many of the top players coming from high school want to play for her. She knows how to use the portal to her advantage. Look at what she did at Baylor, and look at what she's done at LSU in only 2 years. She took an LSU team that was on life support previously coached by Nikki Fargas, and turn it into a top 4 nationaly ranked program. Mulkey has 3 national championships (2005, 2012, 2019) hanging from her belt.

 

[browns]

No. She just cried and whined on the sidelines in disbelief. The game was too close for her to put her team further in the hole by getting a technical foul. Kim is a lot of things, but she's not stupid.

IMO Kim is a very good coach, and many of the top players coming from high school want to play for her. Look at what she did at Baylor, and look at what she's done at LSU in only 2 years. She took an LSU team that Nikki Fargas had steered into oblivion to a top 4 ranked program. Mulkey has 3 national championships (2005, 2012, 2019) hanging from her belt.

View attachment 84701

I agree that Mulkey is a very good coach.the only knock on her was winning just 1 Naty with Griner for four years and O.Sims on the team for 3 of those years

 

[Bone Dog]

Thing is, I think the panel should give more weight to recent games, the "what have you done for me lately" thing. And the conference tourney is what the teams have done lately.

I agree. But oddly, the NET is a measure of “what have you done for me lately.” Early in the season it’s wildly inaccurate, because teams haven’t done much of anything at all. But by the end of February, it has verged on a pretty good reading of what teams are right now. Not a perfect reading, but a pretty good one.

 

[Carnac]

I agree that Mulkey is a very good coach.the only knock on her was winning just 1 Naty with Griner for four years and O.Sims on the team for 3 of those years

Agreed. I remind you that "CRAP HAPPENS." If I remember correctly, Louisville knocked them out of a semi-final championship game by 2 points in 2013 by shooting close to 65% from the field led by Shoni Schimmel. Things don't always go as planned or forecast.

 

[MSGRET]

I think that was. Our old friend Dee Kantner making the call

Wow, she finally had a correct call in a Tournament game.

 

[Jokerman619]

Did I not call LSU and Maryland going down. Now Iowa takes out Ohio state, Louisville takes out Virginia tech. And calling Tennessee over SC. So that puts the Huskies in the driver seat and control of

 

[Jokerman619]

Did I not call LSU and Maryland going down. Now Iowa takes out Ohio state, Louisville takes out Virginia tech. And calling Tennessee over SC. So that puts the Huskies in the driver seat and control of

Of thier on destiny.

 

[Jokerman619]

I saw UConn was ranked 9th. Well that all changes now with Caroline and Azzi back and a 30 pt blowout. This UConn team isnt the team that lost 5 games. This is a different team and I think the next 2 games will show that. We must stay healthy. We have the shooters/scorers we were missing, we have the bench we were missing, we will have alot less TO's now and we have the power to score alot of points. It may take a couple of games for our walking wounded to get going. Remember we are playing in CT this weekend and next weekend which will give us time to rest and practice with a full squad. We are gonna be a very tuff team to play against. Really Tuff.

You are so right.

 

[Linart]

Conference tourneys where a "lucky" winner gets an AQ are good for the sport. Fans LOVE a Cinderella story. As a matter of fact, the knock against the women's game was that there were no cinderellas. It was always the same teams at the top. In the men's tournament, we have teams every year who come out of nowhere and have some success. UConn versus Butler for the national championship comes to mind.

 

[Jokerman619]

Conference tourneys where a "lucky" winner gets an AQ are good for the sport. Fans LOVE a Cinderella story. As a matter of fact, the knock against the women's game was that there were no cinderellas. It was always the same teams at the top. In the men's tournament, we have teams every year who come out of nowhere and have some success. UConn versus Butler for the national championship comes to mind.

So we punish those teams who work thier butts off. I love to see all teams have a chance. But I will not stop supporting my Huskies.

 

[JellyBean]

The Beauty of March. Some great basketball yesterday with some upsets. This time of year, with a long regular season, I am impressed when teams run the table from wire to wire and when teams, you never thought that they would make it to the finals of their respective conference, make it. Pretty awesome.

 

[HuskyNan]

Did I not call LSU and Maryland going down. Now Iowa takes out Ohio state, Louisville takes out Virginia tech. And calling Tennessee over SC. So that puts the Huskies in the driver seat and control of

Even if South Carolina loses, it will still be the overall #1. There is no one that deserves to be ahead of them

 

[Bone Dog]

Yup. An SC loss in the conference finals isn’t enough to make them not the top overall seed. It is enough to give the other contenders some hope though.

 

[MSGRET]

Yesterday evening on one of the local channel's they had one of the Sports Book guru's spouting about the Women's tournament games and they were asked about who he considers to be a good bet besides SC to make the final four. After today's games he stated UConn is the only team that he would say is a good bet to be in the final four. With the way they played for the first three quarters, UConn could have scored another 15 to 20 points more if they had played their starters the full game. They will not be a dark horse if they stay healthy for the rest of the BET and NCAA's.

 

[Bone Dog]

I got to watch the tOSU game and was reminded how much fun it is to watch Jacy Sheldon play. She's like a water bug skittering across the court at top speed, creating havoc wherever she goes. I'm so glad she's back!

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well there you go. St. Louis with their 17-17 record is going to the Dance, won the A-10 tourney. Clearly a team who doesn't deserve a bid, they are going to take one away from a better team somewhere.

 

[Jds]

I doubt the committee thinks this way, but in my view you generally shouldn't be a number 1 seed unless you at least make the tournament finals in a strong conference, because it means at least two teams in your conference are playing better than you are (going into the NCAA tournament). Obviously a team as (mostly) dominant as South Carolina is an exception (or powerhouses like Connecticut and Tennessee in previous years): South Carolina could have lost their first SEC tournament game and wouldn't even have been pushed out of the #1 overall seed. And you need to have a strong enough resume up to that point (so forget Tennessee or Washington State).

The candidates still standing for 1 seeds in my opinion should be South Carolina (obvious), Iowa, Virginia Tech, Connecticut, Ohio State (injury issues there too in some of their losses); maybe even Texas, Oklahoma, and UCLA. To be honest the string of upsets opened the door wide open.

I think you are right. If you are a highly ranked team with multiple losses and lose before you conference tournament final that should hurt your seeding. It's another case if you have only lost once or not at all. In the case of LSU sos shold hurt them.

 

[Bone Dog]

I doubt the committee thinks this way, but in my view you generally shouldn't be a number 1 seed unless you at least make the tournament finals in a strong conference, because it means at least two teams in your conference are playing better than you are (going into the NCAA tournament).

I think this is exactly how the committee thinks. You’ve hit the nail on the head.

The candidates still standing for 1 seeds in my opinion should be South Carolina (obvious), Iowa, Virginia Tech, Connecticut, Ohio State (injury issues there too in some of their losses)

I’m with you here too. tOSU is currently getting a serious beat down from Iowa, which should confirm them as a 3 seed or lower. As for the overall seeding, SC is obviously the top seed. But since we beat Iowa decisively without Dorka, and did it by Nika and Aubrey taking Clark out of the equation for much of the game we should be ahead of them. She’s their claim to a 1 seed, and we showed we could contain her. This tells me we should be at least the #3 overall seed.

And since Va Tech is #10 in the NET, it’s hard to see how they could be ranked ahead of the #2 NET ranked team. The committee will move teams up or down from their NET rank, but not that far, especially since only UConn and Stanford have shown they can play SC close. I’d be really surprised if Iowa or Va Tech gets to the NC game and if they do, SC will blow either of them out. I suspect the result the committee would prefer to see is a competitive NC game.