Indiana/Big Ten Counting UCONN as P5

[Kolumbo]

Having been based out of here for almost 8 years now, i don't believe the Cincy fan base would want them in the big10 either,regardless. In southern ohio there is a lot of osu hate, and in general the big10 football is seen as boring, run based and dominated by basically one or two teams. I think since i've been here they have had purdue and illinois play here and beat them both at home. Osu has it's fans in the south which are primarily graduates who came down here to work. That said, with the fragmentation that is becoming broadcast network tv, the days are numbered that any conference leader will sway providers. It's headed to a game by game choice.

Did you just say there is a lot of OSU hate in southern Ohio? Blaspheme!

 

[Fairfield_1st]

I'll rank them from a Big Ten perspective since I'm a Big Ten guy. Other Conferences may have other priorities.

1.) Connecticut
2.) Connecticut
3.) Connecticut
4.) Connecticut
5.) Connecticut
6.) Connecticut
7.) Connecticut
8.) Connecticut
9.) Connecticut
10.) Connecticut

UConn would end up being a gold mine in the Big Ten.
.
.
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BuffaloLion

Buffalo Lion just leaped Flugs on my love meter. Where can I read more from this clearly insightful person? I might finally go to Twitter if I know he has an account.

 

[Durks07]

Stumbled upon a post from our old pal "BuffaloLion" (or someone impersonating him) on the Virginia Tech Sideline CR board. He had this to say about this post's subject:

This has FOX & 2017 TV contract written all over it.
FOX wants the B1G to load up on as many BYU, Notre Dame, and Academy games as they can so as to be able to include them in both their new Tier One TV schedule and BTN TV schedule. All 5 teams have National, more so than regional, appeal.
And FOX and Delany are firing a shot across the bow of ESPN, Swofford, and the ACC and telling them if you want to add Notre Dame as your 15th team and start up a competing ACC Network, feel free. But you will have to find team 16 from somewhere other than Connecticut or Ohio.

Mind linking this? I would like to read that thread. I took one look at their front page and gave up. Thank god for the BY's formatting.

 

[SubbaBub]

He meant Cincy does nothing for the ACC or it's network because OSU and the B1G own Ohio. That's all he was saying.

 

[CTGoonie]

Mind linking this? I would like to read that thread. I took one look at their front page and gave up. Thank god for the BY's formatting.

Here is the link . I agree that their board makes me appreciate the Boneyard that much more.

 

[jostar1]

Mind linking this? I would like to read that thread. I took one look at their front page and gave up. Thank god for the BY's formatting.

http://chat.virginiatech.sportswar.com/message_board/vtrealignment/2015/October/11/6811578.php

Click on Previous or Next to navigate within the thread.

 

[Slasher]

I interpreted him to mean:
1. The B1G TV negotiations are heading towards a stronger Fox-B1G alliance with ESPN focusing on the SEC and ACC and not prepared to spend big on the B1G.
2. As a result, the B1G has a growing incentive to help Fox in its competition with ESPN (and BTN vs SECN/ACCN).
3. Capturing UConn for the B1G/BTN and getting Cincy into the B12 (50% Fox owned) keeps ACC out of Ohio and Connecticut, and leaves them without a good #16 to pair with ND should ND become willing to join a conference. ACC would have to raid the B12, triple down in Florida, or take a weak team like Temple or Navy. By counting Navy as a P5 opponent and giving it B1G games, even Navy may be induced to stay out of the ACC.
4. If ACC can't grow its footprint with state flagships in northeast or Ohio, an ACCN would be a weak competitor to the BTN, especially in B1G footprint states.
5. If an ACCN can't form or can't generate money, there is little incentive for ND to join the ACC.

I think your point 3 makes a ton of sense in context with the original post on the matter. I don't think the B1G cares at all what the B12 does since they do not see them as a direct threat, so grabbing UConn and with Cincinnati being the logical B12 option it does keep the ACC out of Connecticut and Ohio (because there isn't another remotely viable team in Ohio outside of Cincy.)

 

[Durks07]

Here is the link . I agree that their board makes me appreciate the Boneyard that much more.

Its a mess, but I made it through. Thanks for posting as well @jostar1

 

[jostar1]

Buffalo Lion just leaped Flugs on my love meter. Where can I read more from this clearly insightful person? I might finally go to Twitter if I know he has an account.

He was posting on the WVU Realignment board a lot back in 2013. Here is another one of his posts:


April 25, 2013
Delany has had a man crush on Rutgers and the New York City Metro for years. He said a couple of years ago that he wanted to control New York City, lock, stock, and barrel. Rutgers would have been number 12 three years ago if Nebraska wouldn't have fallen in his lap. They graded out better in their overall metrics than any other school he was looking at at the time.

If it wasn't for the AAU issue, UConn would be a member right now. Their metrics are off the charts. Even at that, the Big Ten is VERY impressed with the support they are getting from their state government and state representitives in their efforts to obtain AAU status.

Make no mistake, Delany wants to control the New York City Metro and Rutgers was the most important piece of that puzzle. UConn is the second most important piece, and it wouldn't suprise me at all to see him pull the trigger on them if it can get by the Big Ten Presidents.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Mind linking this? I would like to read that thread. I took one look at their front page and gave up. Thank god for the BY's formatting.

Once do you get onto their page, do a search for buffalo. It's the first one to pop up and the 2nd message in the string. That's all I did. Here's the link anyway.
http://chat.virginiatech.sportswar.com/message_board/vtrealignment/2015/October/11/6811578.php

 

[Rewster]

It would be interesting to see how the ACC and the B1G would react if the B-12 took Cincinnati as Flueg predicts.
Would one invite us to prevent the other from getting us?
Could accelerate the process!

 

[huskypantz]

He's always been pro-UConn to the B1G, right? Does he claim to have his own Big Ten Man or is he just a fan giving his own personal beliefs..

Yep, BuffaloLion is our buddy. He's been consistent for at least a couple of years.

 

[dayooper]

It would be interesting to see how the ACC and the B1G would react if the B-12 took Cincinnati as Flueg predicts.
Would one invite us to prevent the other from getting us?
Could accelerate the process!

No, I think it's expected that Cinci goes to the Big12, if they expand. I think that ESPN gets part of the Big10'contract. The Midwest is still home to some of the biggest population bases in the country. They don't want to lose that. It may not be a big cut, but I think it will be a cut. Big10 fanbases are pretty loyal and are some of the largest alumni bases out there. Losing that chunk is a pretty big hit.

I know the only reason I have ESPN is for college sports, mostly Big10. I get my Red Wings, Pistons (when I watch them) and Tigers on Fox Sports Detroit. The Lions are always on network TV unless they are the Monday night game. I could care less about SEC or ACC sports, but will watch a Big10 game if it's on. I understand that someone from the South or West feels the same way Big10 sports, but ESPN already has those areas. The MAC contract won't do anything to keep ESPN viewers.

 

[Adios]

No, I think it's expected that Cinci goes to the Big12, if they expand. I think that ESPN gets part of the Big10'contract. The Midwest is still home to some of the biggest population bases in the country. They don't want to lose that. It may not be a big cut, but I think it will be a cut. Big10 fanbases are pretty loyal and are some of the largest alumni bases out there. Losing that chunk is a pretty big hit.

I know the only reason I have ESPN is for college sports, mostly Big10. I get my Red Wings, Pistons (when I watch them) and Tigers on Fox Sports Detroit. The Lions are always on network TV unless they are the Monday night game. I could care less about SEC or ACC sports, but will watch a Big10 game if it's on. I understand that someone from the South or West feels the same way Big10 sports, but ESPN already has those areas. The MAC contract won't do anything to keep ESPN viewers.

Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, Cincinnati, Memphis, etc. This is going to become the Little Brother conference. So will the ACC if the Big Ten and SEC expand and raid the ACC.

Pitt/Temple should be an interesting rivalry.

 

[kobe]

I know the theory and general concensus is that Cincy doesn't make sense for the B1G. But then again Ohio is the 5th largest recruiting state with only 1 P5 member. I mean, if Indiana, Washington, Arizona, Kansas, can have two schools, certainly Ohio should have two. Not looking to start a debate here, I personally just would not be surprised if Cincy being a worthy school got an invite to the B1G. It would be a shocker for CR for sure. Plus it is a member of NSA Cyber Operations Centers of Academic Excellence. $1.2 billion endowment.

Ohio State will never let Cincinnati into the Big 10. I mean it would make sense as Michigan, Indiana and Illinois all have 2 teams in the conference, yet Ohio only has 1. UC is close to AAU membership which probably increases our chances from 0.1% to 1%.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Yep, BuffaloLion is our buddy. He's been consistent for at least a couple of years.

If anyone has any doubts, see how he goes to bat for UConn on a Michigan board (back in 2013):

UConn's football potential looking 10 to 20 years out blows Boston College and Syracuse off the map. They just started playing Division One football about 10 years ago and went to a BCS Bowl as recently as January 2012.

They have easy access to their stadium from all over New England. They have roughly 12 million more people living within a 150 mile radius of Storrs than Boston College has living within 150 miles of their campus. Penn State's campus has nothing but woods and mountains for 150 miles until you hit Pittsburgh or Philadelphia, yet we have a 110,000 seat stadium.

UConn is the state flagship University of Connecticut with basically NO competition for University loyalties within their own state (except maybe to a very small degree, Yale).

Boston College is a private University competing for attention within their own CITY from Harvard, Boston University, Tufts, Northeastern, and, within their own state, UMass. In fact, geographically, more of Massachusetts is closer to UConn's campus than BC's campus. UConn's campus is only 19 miles further from Boston than East Lansing is from Ann Arbor. NO ONE in Boston cares about BC football unless they are playing Notre Dame. In fact, truth be known, UConn and BC have about the same following in the Boston Metro.

New York state doesn't have a state "Flagship University". Their state University system is split up into so many loyalities that rooting interests are all over the map.

I live in Western New York, and absolutely NOBODY cares one whit about Syracuse. The Big Ten Network suprisingly has made Big Ten teams the most followed football teams in Western New York. Penn State is the most followed team followed by Notre Dame, Ohio State, West Virginia, Pitt, Michigan, etc. Then people have their own schools they root for like the University of Buffalo.

In basketball season, people in western New York follow St. Bonaventure, Canisius, Niagara, Notre Dame and the Big Ten schools. Syracuse is hardly talked about unless they are playing a Big Ten school like Michigan or Ohio State.

Neither Syracuse or Boston College have any room for expansion of their campuses or facilities. UConn has unlimited room for growth. And they have the full backing of their state government to improve and increase their research assets and facilities. Unlike the other two schools, UConn is dead serious about gaining AAU status, and, as I said, has the complete backing of their state government to achieve that goal.

In short, UConn reminds me a LOT of Penn State in the late 1960s. In the late 60s, we didn't have NEARLY the research assets and athletic facilities we have now, but since our entrance into the Big Ten and CIC, our growth has been beyond phenomenal. That can happen at UConn too. And they have one HUGE advantage over Penn State.

Whereas our state Government has been literally trying to destroy Penn State as a major research University since our current Governor took office soley to reduce our political lobbying ability in Harrisburg, UConn has the full support and financial backing from their state government and Governor.

Since that study Delany did, UConn has opened up a LOOOT of eyes in the Big Ten offices. They still probably won't get into the Big Ten on this round. But if they do, they will be a MAJOR asset to the Big Ten looking 10 years out.

Of course the Big Ten would take Florida State first. That's why this rumor is just that. A rumor.Syracuse is a complete no-go.

The reason the ACC took Syracuse instead of UConn is because Boston College didn't want them. There is a TON of bad blood between the two schools because of the issues involved in the first ACC raid of the Big East, and BC blacked them. UConn utterly and totally destroys every other New York City area school in their New York City Metro men's basketball television ratings. Ann Arbor is closer to Chicago than Syracuse is to New York City.

That's only one of the things that opened up a lot of eyes in the Big Ten offices. Among numerous other things, UConn's research assets and state government backing also has made people in the Big Ten offices take notice. Their research expenditures are over 1.5 times the total research expenditures of Boston College and Syracuse combined.

Heck, UConn even has Division 1 Men's Hockey. Syracuse doesn't. With the new Big Ten Hockey Conference starting next year, UConn can get the Big Ten into some prime New England recruiting grounds.

I don't know what Syracuse was like in Western New York when you were a kid, but I was transferred up here in 1977. The next time I hear Syracuse being talked about on a Buffalo sports talk station in a positive way for more than 1 minute will be the first time. What really cracked me up was whenever people kept calling in WGR sports radio wondering who the heck Doug Marrone was when the Bills hired him. Some had never heard of him.

At the gym and at the office, all we talk about is Big Ten teams, local area teams, and Notre Dame. The only time Syracuse is mentioned is whenever they are playing a Big Team team or a local team like St. Bonaventure.

The four teams you will see added will be Virginia, Georgia Tech, Florida State, and, as it's trending right now, probably Missouri. The Big Ten isn't going to waste their time on a dud like Syracuse.

Jim Calhoun "walked through the door" and took them to 3 national titles competing in the toughest basketball Conference in the Country.

And UConn might not be good recruiting territory for football, but, combined with a Rutgers, it's off the charts for basketball, and it ain't too bad in hockey either.

In football, if you're talking recruiting, New York is absolutely HORRIBLE. I played high school football in Pennsylvania. It's like professional football compared to the quality, intensity, and the numbers they get up here. FAR more kids up here seem to go out for soccer in the fall than football and it shows. The BEST high school football team up here would get absolutely, positively slaughtered by an average Pittsburgh or Philadelphia area team. I try to go to some of the local high school games, and it's like watching a Junior High game. LOTS of teams up here are stuck with playing freshmen on their Varsity because of numbers.

see you edited your post I replied to. That's good, because I was wondering what in the heck you were talking about.

What's funny about our conversation is that none of these three teams will have a sniff of the Big Ten in this next round of expansion. But it's still fun to talk about. And let me also say that I always enjoy reading these expansion "rumors", so I'm glad you started this thread. If you hear anything else, please feel free to post it, because it makes for good conversation.

I'm not picking at you because you started the thread or told us what you heard. I enjoyed reading it and thank you for posting it. What I'm correcting you about is that you are sooooo off base in the comparison of the three schools. Your post that you edited showed me that not only were you way off in your geography, but you were even way off in what Conference Boston College is affiliated with.

Boston College absolutely, positively DOES NOT WANT UConn in the ACC unless it is an absolute last resort. If the ACC gets picked apart on this next round of expansion, BC will have no choice but to give the ACC the green light. But on the LAST round, you had two different lobbies at work in the ACC. You had the tobacco road lobby of North Carolina, Duke, NCState, Wake Forest, etc. that wanted UConn in the worst way against the Florida State/BC/Clemson lobby that wanted Louisville. The SMALLER lobby won as a compromise with Louisville because tobacco road knew that Florida State and Clemson almost bolted to the Big 12 last year partially over the admittance of Pitt and Syracuse.

Jim Delany had a study done recently specifically comparing Syracuse, Boston College, and UConn, and I'm telling you, BC and Syracuse got utterly and absolutely destroyed in almost every metric possible.

BC is a stagnant, private school with almost no growth potential in an area that is littered with college loyalties. The CIC wants public state Flagship Universities that have good lobbies in their state capitals and with their federal representatives. BC doesn't have that. People in Boston just don't care, and people throughout the rest of the state have loyalties to either UConn or UMass.

Syracuse is out on an island, 250 miles from New York City, with a stadium that is EXPONENTIALLY harder to get to from the New York City and Boston Metros than Rentschler Field is in East Hartford. In fact, because of UConn's centralized location with easy access, the Big Ten thinks that it could not only deliver the New York City Metro (in combination with Rutgers), and to a MUCH smaller degree the Boston Metro, but all of New England. Portland, Maine is about the same distance to Rentschler Field as Philadelphia is to Beaver Stadium. Heck. Even Albany New York is 140 miles closer to Rentschler Field than it is to the Carrier Dome.

Syracuse is also a private school with limited lobbying ability. The SUNY System is New York's State's Public University system which carries FAAAAR more political lobbying ability than Syracuse does. The University of Buffalo would be a FAAAAR greater asset to the CIC than a private school like Syracuse would be. The University of Buffalo is an AAU research University that absolutely dwarfs Syracuse in research expenditures.

UConn is the public flagship State University of Connecticut and has VERY friendly federal and state politicians in their government structure. The CIC has been BEYOND impressed with the support they have gotten. The CIC would find UConn an outstanding asset when it comes to lobbying in joint research endeavors.

Some posters talk about Calhoun leaving. What about when Boeheim leaves. UConn is in a FAR richer recruiting area for high school basketball talent than Syracuse is. And some posters have said that UConn is a stepping stone job for football coaches. Well what do you think Syracuse is? Doug Marrone only stayed 4 years.

And as far as football pedigree goes, Syracuse hasn't done crap with it over the last 10 years. They are 51-82 over that period of time with a MINUS (-705) point differential. UConn, a team that didn't become a full-fledged member of Division 1-A until 2002, has a 75-60 record over the last 10 years playing in the EXACT SAME CONFERENCE as Syracuse with a PLUS 601 point differential and a BCS Bowl appearance just 2 years ago.

There is just SOOO much more when comparing the three schools, but the bottom line is that if the Big Ten DOES decide to go with one of the three schools (BC, CUSE, or UConn - all highly unlikely), Uconn wins the battle hands down.

see you edited your post I replied to. That's good, because I was wondering what in the heck you were talking about.

What's funny about our conversation is that none of these three teams will have a sniff of the Big Ten in this next round of expansion. But it's still fun to talk about. And let me also say that I always enjoy reading these expansion "rumors", so I'm glad you started this thread. If you hear anything else, please feel free to post it, because it makes for good conversation.

I'm not picking at you because you started the thread or told us what you heard. I enjoyed reading it and thank you for posting it. What I'm correcting you about is that you are sooooo off base in the comparison of the three schools. Your post that you edited showed me that not only were you way off in your geography, but you were even way off in what Conference Boston College is affiliated with.

Boston College absolutely, positively DOES NOT WANT UConn in the ACC unless it is an absolute last resort. If the ACC gets picked apart on this next round of expansion, BC will have no choice but to give the ACC the green light. But on the LAST round, you had two different lobbies at work in the ACC. You had the tobacco road lobby of North Carolina, Duke, NCState, Wake Forest, etc. that wanted UConn in the worst way against the Florida State/BC/Clemson lobby that wanted Louisville. The SMALLER lobby won as a compromise with Louisville because tobacco road knew that Florida State and Clemson almost bolted to the Big 12 last year partially over the admittance of Pitt and Syracuse.

Jim Delany had a study done recently specifically comparing Syracuse, Boston College, and UConn, and I'm telling you, BC and Syracuse got utterly and absolutely destroyed in almost every metric possible.

BC is a stagnant, private school with almost no growth potential in an area that is littered with college loyalties. The CIC wants public state Flagship Universities that have good lobbies in their state capitals and with their federal representatives. BC doesn't have that. People in Boston just don't care, and people throughout the rest of the state have loyalties to either UConn or UMass.

Syracuse is out on an island, 250 miles from New York City, with a stadium that is EXPONENTIALLY harder to get to from the New York City and Boston Metros than Rentschler Field is in East Hartford. In fact, because of UConn's centralized location with easy access, the Big Ten thinks that it could not only deliver the New York City Metro (in combination with Rutgers), and to a MUCH smaller degree the Boston Metro, but all of New England. Portland, Maine is about the same distance to Rentschler Field as Philadelphia is to Beaver Stadium. Heck. Even Albany New York is 140 miles closer to Rentschler Field than it is to the Carrier Dome.

Syracuse is also a private school with limited lobbying ability. The SUNY System is New York's State's Public University system which carries FAAAAR more political lobbying ability than Syracuse does. The University of Buffalo would be a FAAAAR greater asset to the CIC than a private school like Syracuse would be. The University of Buffalo is an AAU research University that absolutely dwarfs Syracuse in research expenditures.

UConn is the public flagship State University of Connecticut and has VERY friendly federal and state politicians in their government structure. The CIC has been BEYOND impressed with the support they have gotten. The CIC would find UConn an outstanding asset when it comes to lobbying in joint research endeavors.

Some posters talk about Calhoun leaving. What about when Boeheim leaves. UConn is in a FAR richer recruiting area for high school basketball talent than Syracuse is. And some posters have said that UConn is a stepping stone job for football coaches. Well what do you think Syracuse is? Doug Marrone only stayed 4 years.

And as far as football pedigree goes, Syracuse hasn't done crap with it over the last 10 years. They are 51-82 over that period of time with a MINUS (-705) point differential. UConn, a team that didn't become a full-fledged member of Division 1-A until 2002, has a 75-60 record over the last 10 years playing in the EXACT SAME CONFERENCE as Syracuse with a PLUS 601 point differential and a BCS Bowl appearance just 2 years ago.

There is just SOOO much more when comparing the three schools, but the bottom line is that if the Big Ten DOES decide to go with one of the three schools (BC, CUSE, or UConn - all highly unlikely), Uconn wins the battle hands down.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Yeah, that's a duplicated final quote. Couldn't link to it, then I was a little distracted and ran out of time to remove the duplicate.

 

[NickyNewark]

Yeah, that's a duplicated final quote. Couldn't link to it, then I was a little distracted and ran out of time to remove the duplicate.

yes i've read all this before...BL makes great sense..i think it was on Frank the Tanks blog..

 

[kyleslamb]

Ohio State will never let Cincinnati into the Big 10. I mean it would make sense as Michigan, Indiana and Illinois all have 2 teams in the conference, yet Ohio only has 1. UC is close to AAU membership which probably increases our chances from 0.1% to 1%.

It would never come down to Ohio State giving consent. Cincinnati would not have a single vote of support by any league member. They're not even under consideration. I'm not saying this to be disparaging, but just being bluntly honest.

Fact is, UC adds no new media markets to the league. They've only sold out Nippert stadium a handful of times in the past 10 years, and attendance has continued to dwindle year over year since Bob Huggins was fired. There just aren't any compelling reasons for any league member to champion them, regardless of whether Ohio State would ever go for it.

As far as the academic side, UC definitely has vastly improved its' R&D expenditures over the years and has become a formidable institution in that regard. However, the whole 'close to AAU membership' thing has been uttered by UC fans/supporters for 10 years (literally). After saying something is close for 10 years and still hasn't happened, I think it's time to stop saying it's close and consider perhaps it really isn't.

Me personally? I'd love to see an annual game in basketball and football with UC and OSU. But I don't think UC has the credentials to be a Big Ten member.

 

[Kolumbo]

One theme I find is potential vs. current status. We talk about UCONN's potential if it were invited to a P5, yet tend to downplay other programs' current status. Bottom line, any and every program improves by multiples if it gets invited to the P5. Does anyone think Nippert or The Rent wouldn't sell out every single B1G game?
I do like BuffaloLion's analysis of UCONN's vast potential.

 

[kobe]

It would never come down to Ohio State giving consent. Cincinnati would not have a single vote of support by any league member. They're not even under consideration. I'm not saying this to be disparaging, but just being bluntly honest.

Fact is, UC adds no new media markets to the league. They've only sold out Nippert stadium a handful of times in the past 10 years, and attendance has continued to dwindle year over year since Bob Huggins was fired. There just aren't any compelling reasons for any league member to champion them, regardless of whether Ohio State would ever go for it.

As far as the academic side, UC definitely has vastly improved its' R&D expenditures over the years and has become a formidable institution in that regard. However, the whole 'close to AAU membership' thing has been uttered by UC fans/supporters for 10 years (literally). After saying something is close for 10 years and still hasn't happened, I think it's time to stop saying it's close and consider perhaps it really isn't.

Me personally? I'd love to see an annual game in basketball and football with UC and OSU. But I don't think UC has the credentials to be a Big Ten member.

OSU will never play us annually in any sport. I know Urban is upset that Cincinnati is the only Ohio city that isn't an OSU stronghold (hence scheduling a spring game here a few years ago). The OSU AD wants every fan of Cincinnati (Xavier and Dayton too in basketball) to also root for OSU, so they simply don't schedule them to not create a conflict.