IMO Saniya Chong is playing just fine.....criticism unfair... | Page 2 | The Boneyard

IMO Saniya Chong is playing just fine.....criticism unfair...

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Facts are that she has hit a rough spot in her offensive game and Geno has let her know about it.
That I will certainly agree with you on, but we should also keep in perspective that Saniya's "rough patch" still has pretty smooth parts to the road even when compared against some of the top players in the country.
 
Yeah, you've absolutely convinced me that Saniya's been odorizing the joint in the last 5 games she's played in. Absolutely and darn tootin', an no doubt about it. Certainly can't score or rebound, which all freshman guards at UConn are expected to do in buckets or they probably should be tossed. 8 points and 5 rebounds in the 74 minutes she's played in those games wouldn't cut it, as if you split the minutes into 2 games of 37 minutes each, that's 4.0 ppg and 2.5 rebounds a game. The extremely hot MoJeff has been averaging 9.1 ppg and 3.0 rpg a game over that span of games, and that's where Saniya has to be in order not to be tossed.

But still I was wondering if the Saniya of recent games games and horrible stats can be redeemed, because she is known for dishing an assist and getting a steal once in a while. Her minutes per assist in her last 5 games is 8.2, and minutes per steal is 10.5, with obviously the lower the number the better. Seemed like it might be interesting to check her stats there against the season's average of the 6 non-UConn guards who were mentioned as the top candidates for AA honors this year. The stat comparison versus Chong's (8.2) (10.5) is:

Player\Team...(mpa) (mps)
Mitchell \ USC: (8.5) ... (12.9)
Bias \ OK State: (5.4)....(16.9)
Sims \ Baylor: (6.8).....(16.4)
McBride \ ND: (8.1).....(25.3)
Schimmel \ LVil: (7.9)...(25.1)
Lucas \ (PSU): (16.3)...(18.1)

So bad as Chong has been in her last 5 games, it's comforting to know that her steals rate recently is better than all six of the top non UConn guards in the country and her assists rate is right in the pack. I agree that Chong should not be letting a Sims or McBride dish the ball better than any UConn player even if she is a freshman, but hey, this is just her bad span of games, right, especially when we all have such self-righteous high expectations? When she gets back to form, she'll leave Odyssey in the dust. As for the scoring and rebounding, I'm not sure that's her main job on the team, but Geno will let her know if she should be bombing the 3s.

Opinions and blather are cheap; facts and context are priceless.
Great stuff Dobbs. Chong would look even better if you took her very low TOs (3 in 74 minutes during this stretch) into account.
 
Im not going to make comparisons between players. Saniya is not at this point in the season where Geno expects her to be. I would like to see her take it to the hoop more I saw her do it in hs and she was terrific. I think a lot of it has to do with her being a freshman on this talented team and giving way to her elders on the floor. When she decides to start scoring she will make Geno happy. I for one would like to see her look for her shot more. We do need more production out of BB and Chong. I will give them they've been sick and injured. I think we will see them produce over the next couple of games.
 
Im not going to make comparisons between players. Saniya is not at this point in the season where Geno expects her to be. I would like to see her take it to the hoop more I saw her do it in hs and she was terrific. I think a lot of it has to do with her being a freshman on this talented team and giving way to her elders on the floor. When she decides to start scoring she will make Geno happy. I for one would like to see her look for her shot more. We do need more production out of BB and Chong. I will give them they've been sick and injured. I think we will see them produce over the next couple of games.
I also think it is the same thing pretty much every freshman goes through when they get to Uconn. A learning curve. You start the season knowing very little of the nuances of the Uconn system and 'winging it'. You are often in the wrong position running the wrong direction but you are playing on instinct and when all else fails you head to the hoop or you shoot your J. Then as you learn more you start thinking more and are more often in the right position and running in the right direction, but now, because of the thinking, you may be just a half beat slow, and that gets you thinking even more. And then at some point late in the season or even over the summer it all sort of clicks and the instinctive part of the game comes back but now you are in the right spot by instinct and running the right direction naturally. It certainly happened with Stewart and Jefferson and Tuck last season and surprise surprise it is happening for Chong this season. She isn't playing badly, she is still getting steals and assists, still playing pretty well on defense, and the team doesn't need more right now, so she has time to get that instinctive action back into her game.
Players have often commented about the flow of a season and how the coaches work - regular season is for heavy coaching and breaking down of their games - and it can get ugly, and they are often the very worst post/guard/wing in the whole country. But the post season is about winning and the coaching changes - now they are brilliant, and everything they do is great, and their game is put back together. Their instincts are always right are given free range and they have emerged from a grueling season as the best post/wing/guard Geno has ever coached. (Until the next preseason where they have forgotten everything he has ever told them and can't even put their socks on the right way and once again are the worst post/wing/guard he has ever had to coach.)
 
Great stuff Dobbs. Chong would look even better if you took her very low TOs (3 in 74 minutes during this stretch) into account.
Sorry, can't do that, it would show up the elite guards of WCBB too much and put Saniya on a pedestal of superstardom.

Let's just let her enjoy her freshman year a bit and develop her talents more fully before demanding that she move right into the Husky pantheon of the legendary players of yore.
 
I also think it is the same thing pretty much every freshman goes through when they get to Uconn. A learning curve. You start the season knowing very little of the nuances of the Uconn system and 'winging it'. You are often in the wrong position running the wrong direction but you are playing on instinct and when all else fails you head to the hoop or you shoot your J. Then as you learn more you start thinking more and are more often in the right position and running in the right direction, but now, because of the thinking, you may be just a half beat slow, and that gets you thinking even more.
I think you put the finger on the "freshman phenomenon" that is torqued to an extremely high level at UConn. A freshman begins learning the UConn system from the start but it's a long process and no one is expected to get everything at the beginning. So they can wing it on instinct, and certain things like taking a 3 too early in the possession are forgiven more because the player is young and learning. But by this time of year with tourney action approaching, the coaches are expecting the freshmen to know the major basics of how to operate in the UConn system, and along with the strains of travel and a longer season the player is also beginning to feel the pressure of being closely judged and having always to make the right move. And that's tough and can indeed lead to freeze ups.

The key for the freshmen is to find what things they can comfortably within the system and the role that best fits their current talent level. If they can find that status, they can get some extended minutes in tourney play; if they can't, not. Maybe Saniya can spot up for 3 a bit more often, and maybe she can cut inside for a feed to a big more a little more often. But anyone who thinks a player who is averaging 5.6 ppg and 2.0 rpg is suddenly going to start putting up 10-15 ppg or crashing the boards for a half dozen rebounds is going to be disappointed. She is no longer playing against HSers. The total of 25 points she put up against Boston U, and UC Davis is not going to happen in the big games. As noted from the stats, she's still spot on with some of her stats and a big key for UConn is she rarely makes big mistakes. Her level of play so far should earn her better epithets than "weak" and "underperformer" or whatever. I know good is never good enough at UConn, but we still need to keep a little grip on reality.
 
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Bottom line if you play well enough Geno will find playing time for you no matter what. The reason that Chong didn't get a lot of minutes in those games is because she is not playing to her full potential. You don't think Geno would like to give his starters rest In every game?


I agree here. There's a reason why he made the comment - he wants her to play better. It's that simple.

With this said, Geno's view on things is that of a coach to strive for excellence. As a fan, we don't have to be that way. For me, my perception of Saniya is fine because I never believed she was "the number 1 recruit." PARADE MAGAZINE- I can remember one year they had a pg listed as number 1 over pretty much consensus number 1 Candace Parker. And I never believed that early season discussion Saniya should overtake Mo Jeff.

IMO - this thread -a lot comes down to what the coach wants vs each individual fan's perception of a player- in this case Chong. IMO you and I agree she doesn't deserve the minutes. I don't know about you - but for me I don't think she is playing bad. I just happen to think he is trying to motiviate her to play at a higher level so she isn't such a drop off to Mo Jeff and Bria whom I happen to believe are playing outstanding all-amercian caliber. And Geno's using "playing time" as his motivation tool.

For me in the long run, I'm hopeful Banks can elevate her game. I think with Saniya this year we'll get the big-swing up-and-downs which at the worst hopefully the ups are in when needed.
 
Actually for 74 minutes 6 steals is quite good. (How many freshman guards do you think are averaging more than that per minute? Not many) And for a 2 guard 9 assists in 74 minutes with only 3 TOs is more than respectable. It's only the shooting that's an issue. All in all this 5 game stretch is much better than Breanna's worst stretch last year.

But by bringing up Stewie- she wasn't playing well at the time. You are comparing someone that wasn't playing well vs. another that is playing "okay" and then using that as a comparsion that Saniya "must be playing well."

Just listen to post game finals comments from Louisville coach about Stewie. To paraphrase he said "That's the way we thought she'd be playing duirng the year." Thus Stewie's play during a stretch during the year was disappointing. So much so Geno benched her. She rose above it. Maybe so can Chong. Because as of right now, Geno's perception of how Saniya is playing isn't that great, is it? And are her assists mostly that of plays she has created or is it a function of having multiple all-amercians on the court? Maybe Geno is taking that into account?
 
Wow, did I just her those comments by Saniya on the game broadcast right? I could have sworn she said herself what I posted here but I was challenged by many saying I didn't know what I was talking about.
 
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sawxfan23 said:
Wow, did I just her those comments by Saniya on the game broadcast right? I could have sworn she said herself
what I posted here but I was challenged by many sying I didn't know what I was talking about.

What was she saying?
 
She said (according to the announcers) she was thinking too much and it kind of paralyzed her.
 
What was she saying?

She said that she was so afraid of turning the ball over that she started thinking about every little thing she did instead of just reacting and playing with confidence. Basically she had a case of "paralysis by analysis".
 
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But by bringing up Stewie- she wasn't playing well at the time. You are comparing someone that wasn't playing well vs. another that is playing "okay" and then using that as a comparsion that Saniya "must be playing well."

Just listen to post game finals comments from Louisville coach about Stewie. To paraphrase he said "That's the way we thought she'd be playing duirng the year." Thus Stewie's play during a stretch during the year was disappointing. So much so Geno benched her. She rose above it. Maybe so can Chong. Because as of right now, Geno's perception of how Saniya is playing isn't that great, is it? And are her assists mostly that of plays she has created or is it a function of having multiple all-amercians on the court? Maybe Geno is taking that into account?
No, just saying that as rough patches go it ain't all that bad. Or should I say wasn't, after today ...
 
Seethe Geno comments: http://blog.ctnews.com/elliott/2014/02/01/chong-shines-in-reserve-in-win-over-cincinnati/

I do not know what he is saying when he says: "if she is not concentrating on it all the time it just goes away." Can anyone interpret that for me.
It follows on "she wants to do all those things," which is likely referring to all the parts of the game she knows she can contribute in, the assists, nail some 3s, an occasional block, a steal (though none yesterday), and basically solid defense and learning how to switch off.

But midway through freshman year, Saniya has not built up a big history of big games yet nor is she ensconced as a top scoring option in the UConn offense. So it's tough to get into a real groove and then the concentration might waver a bit, though her numbers rank with top freshman guards in the country in most areas. Even after a game yesterday where she goes 4-6 on 3s and dishes 4 assists, Geno's remarks on her progress were not exactly glowing, saying she was "better" and that her play has been spotty and that "She's not there yet." So anyone who was under the delusion that Geno would be lauding Saniya to the skies after a performance that most fans would consider pretty great, well, they didn't get their expectations. And like Kara said and Geno knows, great 3-pt shooting can fade in a moment as the better teams get out and guard you and your focus is a little off.

But better than plaudits, Geno gave Saniya the highest praise he can give by talking about her at length. That is the sign that he is really excited about a player and is expecting big things. If he basically ignores you, you know you're not in a good place. So after the Temple game he said he wanted more from her, and after the Cinci game he's telling her she has to get "there." He'll never be satisfied and he'll be pushing her to the end, but the important point is that she's good enough to be out there and getting pushed.
 
CDobbs I am interested to hear your thoughts on the comments that Saniya herself made that basically mirrored the comments of "moaners" like me. Its ok to have an opinion on things but when other posters see it differently, then the head coach sees it differently, and finally the player herself sees it differently I have to think your probably wrong and you should just give it up.
 
Seethe Geno comments: http://blog.ctnews.com/elliott/2014/02/01/chong-shines-in-reserve-in-win-over-cincinnati/

I do not know what he is saying when he says: "if she is not concentrating on it all the time it just goes away." Can anyone interpret that for me.


IMO her speaks of her "entire game" gets away from her if she isn't concentrating at her fullest. IMO read the next sentence Geno says "It's spotty." IMO the "it" is her game and it relates to the quote you mentioned above.
 
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So Sawx, now you're saying that Saniya's comments that she needs to improve are proof that she's been an underperformer, that the fact that the coach's less than fulsome appraisal of her performance following the game still somehow means she had a huge leap yesterday when she hit 4 basically unguarded three-pointers against a very weak team?

You were also crying about her supposedly horrible 1.2 steals average during the 5 games you were anguished about. Yesterday Saniya, had 0 against a Cinci team that was basically begging the Huskies to take the ball from them. So, I guess Saniya must have been really lousy there yesterday. And only 1 rebound in 23 minutes. That's half her average for the year, so we must be seeing a serious slide for her.

As posters have repeatedly noted, there are many different aspects to a player's performance, and on most of them Saniya has been pretty steady throughout the year, though she knows now still more is expected of her. I am thrilled that Saniya hit 4 three-pters yesterday, though I doubt she would have hit them or even tried to take them with a defender in her face. And that's why Geno was saying, "She hasn't got there yet" yesterday about her, and that there are many other facets to work on, one's she has been working on all year.

But you are free to make cream soup over the open threes. We were all thrilled that she got the extra minutes and produced more in some areas, but really, she needs to start grabbing some rebounds and getting some steals because yesterday's performance left something to be desired there. But she'll do better, even if she doesn't hit four threes in the next game.
 
You need to look up the word CONTEXT in the dictionary. Listen lets just agree to disagree because there is nothing getting solved here.
 
Sure, absolutely nothing when you decide that their is no difference between stats garnered against very different quality of opponents. And the context of posts never matters when a poster decides to only focus on convenient stats for his latest version of spiel and ignores the inconvenient ones.

But whatever, as you say, nothing is "solved" under these conditions, though most posters don't think they can "solve" anything on the BY. That's for the players and coaches to do, and they will.
 
She said that she was so afraid of turning the ball over that she started thinking about every little thing she did instead of just reacting and playing with confidence. Basically she had a case of "paralysis by analysis".

Gotcha - I did hear her talk about those things. Similar to what Mo has said about some of her freshman year experiences, overthinking, etc., minus the part about looking over at the bench every 10 seconds ;)
 
May the Freshman Wall crumble and fall. Saniya has great promise. She sits on a team bench made up of staggeringly talented and accomplished athletes. I look forward to her contributions to the UConn juggernaut.
 
Geno sent a message and it was received. I am looking forward to both BB and Saniya to keep 'getting good fast.'
 
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Actually for 74 minutes 6 steals is quite good. (How many freshman guards do you think are averaging more than that per minute? Not many) And for a 2 guard 9 assists in 74 minutes with only 3 TOs is more than respectable. It's only the shooting that's an issue. All in all this 5 game stretch is much better than Breanna's worst stretch last year.
I'm venting at previous posts and so don't take this as a response to this particular remark. You can't just take statistics out of context and apply them to suit your point. When did they happen and under what circumstances. Who was out on the court. If it's the end of the game and the game is already decided, maybe a certain player is playing against bench warmers who haven't played but a moment or two all year and prone to making mistakes. You could take a few minutes here and a few minutes there and make someone Michael Jordan or Larry Bird and conversely you can make a superior player to be a scrub based on those moments when they make a bonehead play which happens at some point to everyone. Geno has a pretty good handle on what he wants and EXPECTS from certain players, based on what their ABILITIES are. If you are a walk on he probably has a little less expectation but even those kids might get an earful under certain circumstances. Welcome to the real world.
 
1. She has played 396 minutes, an average of almost 19 per game. That really doesn't allow for someone who was playing high school ball last year to adjust to the college game. Especially as played by UConn.

As an aside...

High school games are generally (in most states) 32 minutes long. 19 minutes per game is a good percentage of what she was playing in high school.

Second, 19 minutes per game is a LOT for a freshman, especially at a top program. That is more than enough time to adjust to the college game, especially when some of her minutes are in blowouts (i.e., less pressure in a blowout than in a tied game with one minute left).

Without commenting on the other points issues, I wanted to mention this one, as the comment just "stuck out" to me.

As another aside, Mercedes Russell, the top recruit in 2013, is getting approximately 19.9 minutes per game for Tennessee.
 
As an aside...

High school games are generally (in most states) 32 minutes long. 19 minutes per game is a good percentage of what she was playing in high school.

Second, 19 minutes per game is a LOT for a freshman, especially at a top program. That is more than enough time to adjust to the college game, especially when some of her minutes are in blowouts (i.e., less pressure in a blowout than in a tied game with one minute left).

Without commenting on the other points issues, I wanted to mention this one, as the comment just "stuck out" to me.

As another aside, Mercedes Russell, the top recruit in 2013, is getting approximately 19.9 minutes per game for Tennessee.
Not sure that Russell is the best example of a player who has had enough minutes to adjust to college play capably, although the Vol posters here seem to have a rosier view of her season so far. And as David said, "Especially as played by UConn." 19 minutes a game is a solid chunk of time, but a lot more is expected of UConn players than your average college team, and Husky freshmen not named Diana Taurasi and Maya Moore have generally struggled t0 pull together a basic core of skills to perform well on offense and defense. In a lot of ways, it's not so much the amount of minutes involved as the fact that it takes more than 4 or 5 months for the required instincts and energy level to kick in, at least well enough to satisfy Geno that the freshman is really getting it.
 
As an aside...

High school games are generally (in most states) 32 minutes long. 19 minutes per game is a good percentage of what she was playing in high school.

Second, 19 minutes per game is a LOT for a freshman, especially at a top program. That is more than enough time to adjust to the college game, especially when some of her minutes are in blowouts (i.e., less pressure in a blowout than in a tied game with one minute left).

Without commenting on the other points issues, I wanted to mention this one, as the comment just "stuck out" to me.

As another aside, Mercedes Russell, the top recruit in 2013, is getting approximately 19.9 minutes per game for Tennessee.

Cam....IMO there is no way the minutes she has played at UConn compare in any way to the minutes she played in high school. Not in the number of them, the opponents she was playing or the role she was asked to play by the coach. Opponents in college are faster, bigger, tougher, etc... The game is faster, more athletic... She is adjusting, but it will take more time. I felt, due to injuries, she was asked to play more than she might have w/ everyone healthy. I also think she has done a "fine" job. Not great or spectacular, but good enough considering she is a freshman. Her role at UConn is very different than it was at Ossining, where she did everything but sell programs. We disagree, but no worries, plenty of good basketball ahead for both Saniya and UConn. :)
 
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Cam....IMO there is no way the minutes she has played at UConn compare in any way to the minutes she played in high school. Not in the number of them, the opponents she was playing or the role she was asked to play by the coach. Opponents in college are faster, bigger, tougher, etc... The game is faster, more athletic... She is adjusting, but it will take more time. I felt, due to injuries, she was asked to play more than she might have w/ everyone healthy. I also think she has done a "fine" job. Not great or spectacular, but good enough considering she is a freshman. Her role at UConn is very different than it was at Ossining, where she did everything but sell programs. We disagree, but no worries, plenty of good basketball ahead for both Saniya and UConn. :)

Except 19.5 minutes per game is half of the entire collegiate game and many more minutes than other freshman are getting. I used the Russell comparison as an example that even the #1 player in the country is getting the same amount of minutes.
 
I thought Saniya played very well again last night against SMU. Very little for th coaching staff to be upset about, I would think !
 
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