I'm More Convinced Than Ever: UConn & UVA to the B1G

[noeynox]

What do you mean "Those people?" -Tropic Thunder.

 

[Dooley]

What do you mean "Those people?" -Tropic Thunder.

Great movie. What do YOU mean "those people"?

 

[whaler11]

Cable boxes??? To watch what? Keep in mind that he stated that conference realignment has nothing to do with athletics. So what is it? Closed circuit, study from home classes? Pay per view chemistry 101? Hey wait, could it possibly be athletics or is the BTN going to buy the Home Shopping Network?

that's my point

Clearly he meant athletic success.

 

[huskyrob1]

He said realignment has nothing to do with Athletic Performance, performance being the key word!

Clearly he meant athletic success.

Either athletics or athletics success/performance, he's wrong either way. Conference realignment has everything to do with a schools success in athletics. I mean why on earth did the Big East try to invite a school from the state of Idaho at the last minute to shore things up. Was that school a flagship institution? Or did it just have an awesome football program? Everyone has said that the B1G taking Rutgers was a dumb stupid move, I mean all those cable boxes are going to be tuned into Rutgers bball team playing Maryland at MSG????? Or everyone from Maine to southern New Jersey will tune in to watch Rutgers FB team get blown out by Wisconsin or Michigan State by 40 points? Give me a break. Conference realignment has everything to do with TV ratings, and TV ratings in college sports or the pros has everything to do with athletic success and performance. No one likes to watch a loser, just ask Cleveland, the Marlins, Kansas City, or Paul Pasqualoni.

read.....


http://thebiglead.com/2014/05/06/5-...-added-that-were-better-options-than-rutgers/

 

[Samoo]

I doubt you'll see NC turn blue, unless ILLEGALS moved into the state and get amnesty. Of course, with AMNESTY for ILLEGALS, the US will be blue...because of those people.

Since I can't dislike with a button, I'll do it here.

 

[whaler11]

Either athletics or athletics success/performance, he's wrong either way. Conference realignment has everything to do with a schools success in athletics. Everyone has said that the B1G taking Rutgers was a dumb stupid move, I mean all those cable boxes are going to be tuned into Rutgers ball team playing Maryland at MSG????? Or everyone from Maine to southern New Jersey will tune in to watch Rutgers FB team get blown out by Wisconsin or Michigan State by 40 points? Give me a break. Conference realignment has everything to do with TV ratings, and TV ratings in sports has everything to do with athletic success and performance.

read.....


http://thebiglead.com/2014/05/06/5-...-added-that-were-better-options-than-rutgers/

Your posts are becoming less and less lucid lately on these topics.

Either you are attempting performance art with this beauty or you are cracking.

 

[TerryD]

But it took how long for "TRUSTS" to become illegal??? I do not know if they will be legal or illegal in 10 yrs, but my point to you was, what may be legal today may become illegal tomorrow. Think of it this way, currently Major League Baseball is an operating monopoly that the U.S. government currently allows. But if fans or the population was to suddenly for whatever reason to be against MLB, congress would step in as they have in the past and threaten to take away this "legal" monopoly until they changed their ways. (For the record no one believes it will ever be taken away but if MLB pushed on an issue that our U.S. congress was against - well who knows how that would play out).

I can't believe you are using the music industry as your example, I don't know of a more corrupt business other than the MOB. Sure the music industry is operating under "legal" pretense but lets not have out educational institutions aspire to such a shrewd, crafty, winner takes ALL and more business model that makes us think of high pressure tactics when we are now talking about the welfare of student athletes. I think the GOR as others have stated has yet to be challenged which is why no one knows for sure how this will play out. But with respect to the GOR, what does the student athlete get for signing with a team that allows a GOR to exist? Afterall, whose name is on the back of the jersey and worse whose body is taking the "punches" on the field. So please, and ND is going to talk about a GOR - please did ND sign the GOR? and if so, did it include football? So when this is all about football, please don't talk to me about the justification of a GOR citing of all things the music industry. ND, obviously is not going to have their football program subjected to it. And once again, ND is helping to defend or craft rules that they themselves will not be required to live by? When in the Old Big East, how many times did ND vote for something that was counter to the growth of the conference but served their own needs? Sure good shrewd business sense and now there are the GOR's, thanks ND, you helped destroy what was likely the best regional basketball conference in the U.S. and certainly the only one that ever captured NYC on a regular basis. Note to be clear I said Helped - I do not blame the Judas University solely but they definitely had a much bigger hand in it than they should have been allowed. Maybe the ACC, NBE, or the BIG will do this but they will never have been first and so they will always be compared - ALWAYS!!!

As a UConn fan, I do not plan on counting on the concept of a GOR being challenged as our only hope. Sure it could get things really moving, but I think conference realignment has a few more after-shocks before it settles. I think UConn will be involved in one of them and that is all I care about. A GOR being challenged and failing would be off the Richter Scale and the tectonic shift would be massive - so I think this will be avoided but I cannot assume it will never be challenged and if it is, what the outcome would be.

I don't know what to make of your reply. GOR's have been tested in court and upheld. Period.

My being an ND fan has nothing to do with it. ND signed a GOR that carved out football and NBC, sure. ND acts in its own best interests, just like every other school in the college athletics universe.

What does that have to do with the GOR's signed by the other ACC schools, all Big 12 schools and all Big Ten schools?

I wish UConn the best and hope that they end up in the ACC, but pretending the GOR is not an impediment to the ACC and Big 12 breaking apart is just wishful thinking.

 

[TerryD]

They've existed in the music industry, though, under the premise that publishers must pay for the rights they're granted by the publishee.

If we accepted that same premise for college athletics, then we actually should not accept the ACC and Big 12 will continue as is because frankly if schools are paid for their rights, the new conferences could still take them and work around that compensation out of its league distribution.

Fact is, though, the ACC and Big 12 knows that it can't continue paying for the rights because that alone would not stop realignment from happening, so they will attempt to withhold payment altogether for the rights, which makes it nothing like the music industry which has been required to actually continue payment in exchange for rights. Thus, the only way to try to head off realignment and the leagues continuing as is would be if they breach the Grant of Rights. Though not specifically stated, it's highly unlikely that an attorney could argue that college programs have received anything BUT monetary compensation as the consideration they've been given for media rights all these years.

Good. Grab Texas for the Big Ten, then. I will grab the popcorn and watch the show.

I am one who has argued that the old conference has to pay the departing school for their rights. The new conference gets nothing, though, for the new school's home game TV rights.

Texas would likely get paid by the Big 12 but the Big Ten would not have more Texas welfare TV money from Texas home games to spread around to the likes of Purdue and Illinois.

So, how much money will be allocated for legal fees to fight the GOR signed by Texas?

That would be fun to watch. How long will this court case take? Five years or so at the trial and appellate levels?

 

[Durks07]

I don't know what to make of your reply. GOR's have been tested in court and upheld. Period.

My being an ND fan has nothing to do with it. ND signed a GOR that carved out football and NBC, sure. ND acts in its own best interests, just like every other school in the college athletics universe.

What does that have to do with the GOR's signed by the other ACC schools, all Big 12 schools and all Big Ten schools?

I wish UConn the best and hope that they end up in the ACC, but pretending the GOR is not an impediment to the ACC and Big 12 breaking apart is just wishful thinking.

Out of curiosity, are the GORs upheld in the music industry contracts between the musician and the record label or media company only, or do those GORs protect a third party? I'm not confident that it would be a decisive distinction, but the GORs that we're seeing in college athletics are between the conference and the university designed to "protect" the interests of the company giving the media rights deal (in this case ESPN). I'm not sure the parallel is perfect, considering the different dynamics, but I know very little about this field of contract law, so whatever you can tell me would be appreciated.

 

[mavblues]

I don't think that people realize how tough it will be to dissolve a GOR. Nor do I think that people understand that GOR's are not new legal concepts and are not likely to be worth the effort to try to break or nullify one in court.

I don't think you understand what we understand.

Understand?

 

[husky10]

Texas would likely get paid by the Big 12 but the Big Ten would not have more Texas welfare TV money from Texas home games to spread around to the likes of Purdue and Illinois.

So, how much money will be allocated for legal fees to fight the GOR signed by Texas?

Hypothetically the new conference would have leverage with a GOR negotiation. In your scenario the B1G controls the rights to most of Texas's away games and Texas's conference schedule. In a year the Big 10 could gain Texas at Michigan, Texas at Ohio State, Texas at Nebraska, while the Big 12 gets northwestern at Texas, Texas state at Texas and Rutgers at Texas. Networks usually have a chance to renegotiate when a conference changes membership do you think Fox is going to want to pay the conference as much for those games as they are paying the big12 now?

While at the same time the Big 10 is adding valuable games that likely add to its media contract. Basically you have the Big 12 continuing to pay Texas for its media rights with a reduced media contract while Texas likely gets some sort of payment from the B1G for the increase in their media contract.

To be clear I don't think a season like this would EVER be played, just the team leaving has some leverage and therefore the GOR can be negotiated out of.

That being said I think the best defense for a GOR imsho is that each school has signed it willingly and therefore most likely isn't looking to move conferences in the immediate future.

 

[CTMike]

I don't know what to make of your reply. GOR's have been tested in court and upheld. Period.

My being an ND fan has nothing to do with it. ND signed a GOR that carved out football and NBC, sure. ND acts in its own best interests, just like every other school in the college athletics universe.

What does that have to do with the GOR's signed by the other ACC schools, all Big 12 schools and all Big Ten schools?

I wish UConn the best and hope that they end up in the ACC, but pretending the GOR is not an impediment to the ACC and Big 12 breaking apart is just wishful thinking.

I think the key difference is that no money has exchanged hands in the CR GOR scenario.

The games haven't been played, and the teams haven't been paid for their performances. The GOR is trying to say : play your games and we still might not pay you. I don't think that's legitimate. The school has not been compensated for their rights.

 

[nomar]

We'll need some mushrooms and maybe just a touch of bourbon.

Then, we wait.

Call Chapwilvaug, he's got some lying around I think.

 

[The Funster]

Re: the Big 12, IIRC the GOR was an addendum to the new TV contract. Presumably, once the TV contract is altered or rewritten the GOR becomes null and void until it too is rewritten as an addendum to any new TV agreement

 

[Drimple]

Either athletics or athletics success/performance, he's wrong either way. Conference realignment has everything to do with a schools success in athletics. I mean why on earth did the Big East try to invite a school from the state of Idaho at the last minute to shore things up. Was that school a flagship institution? Or did it just have an awesome football program? Everyone has said that the B1G taking Rutgers was a dumb stupid move, I mean all those cable boxes are going to be tuned into Rutgers bball team playing Maryland at MSG????? Or everyone from Maine to southern New Jersey will tune in to watch Rutgers FB team get blown out by Wisconsin or Michigan State by 40 points? Give me a break. Conference realignment has everything to do with TV ratings, and TV ratings in college sports or the pros has everything to do with athletic success and performance. No one likes to watch a loser, just ask Cleveland, the Marlins, Kansas City, or Paul Pasqualoni.

read.....


http://thebiglead.com/2014/05/06/5-...-added-that-were-better-options-than-rutgers/

Dude, you are spinning like a top.

The fact that Rutgers got in the Big Ten with lousy athletics disproves your entire point (or at least what I think your point might be). Of course, you seem to be simultaneously making two contradictory points without realizing it so what do I know?

 

[SubbaBub]

I think the key difference is that no money has exchanged hands in the CR GOR scenario.

The games haven't been played, and the teams haven't been paid for their performances. The GOR is trying to say : play your games and we still might not pay you. I don't think that's legitimate. The school has not been compensated for their rights.

I'm not so sure about this. You could contractually separate TV license fees from membership. You agree to transfer broadcast rights to the conference, period. The conference will disperse media revenue to all members in good standing, period. The two may not necessarily be tied together, lawyers?

What I haven't heard much about is the extent of these rights. Are they conference games if you are not in the conference? I've always assumed the TV deals apply to home games and the conference deals to conference home games.

So say UVA leaves for the B1G. How many UVa FB games can the ACC sell to ESPN? My guess is 4 or 5 plus OOC home games at the most. It would not be too difficult to minimize the effect. Close neutral site road games, marquee conference games on the road for the duration of the GOR, etc.

 

[NickyNewark]

Call Chapwilvaug, he's got some lying around I think.

Nothing finer than some organic mesc and a taste of a fine whiskey.lol.

 

[NickyNewark]

Dude, you are spinning like a top.

The fact that Rutgers got in the Big Ten with lousy athletics disproves your entire point (or at least what I think your point might be). Of course, you seem to be simultaneously making two contradictory points without realizing it so what do I know?

You're right....what he's saying is the B1G should've contracted and paid him rather than bother with the proffesional research firm and their 2 year long intense study!?! What? And btw RU has been scheduling B1G 10 teams for years and have held there own. The only difference will be the steady diet but outside the cream RU is every bit a middle of the pack type team there already with only the usual 3 or 4 suspects seemingly unattainable to expect to beat on a regular basis! Heck I remember when Wiscky stunk pre Alvarez and RU has 10 times there potential!!

 

[uconndogs]

Heck I remember when Wiscky stunk pre Alvarez and RU has 10 times there potential!!

You know...........oh never mind. Your statement speaks for itself.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I'm not so sure about this. You could contractually separate TV license fees from membership. You agree to transfer broadcast rights to the conference, period. The conference will disperse media revenue to all members in good standing, period. The two may not necessarily be tied together, lawyers?

What I haven't heard much about is the extent of these rights. Are they conference games if you are not in the conference? I've always assumed the TV deals apply to home games and the conference deals to conference home games.

So say UVA leaves for the B1G. How many UVa FB games can the ACC sell to ESPN? My guess is 4 or 5 plus OOC home games at the most. It would not be too difficult to minimize the effect. Close neutral site road games, marquee conference games on the road for the duration of the GOR, etc.

The circumstance you've raised is an excellent example of why I don't overly concern myself with things like GORs. Impediments haunt every project. When Kennedy said we were going to the moon, I'm sure the impediments to such a project could have filled the Library of Congress. I imagine what we didn't know about how to accomplish the objective far exceeded what we knew. Having to figure stuff out as you go is part of the deal.

Delany is beyond forming the objective: it's the Northeast. He's executed on the first two parts of the strategy: Rutgers and Maryland. He knows UConn is up next and that's as good as a done deal. So is UVA except they don't realize it yet. Sooner or later, Don Corleone will make Charlottesville an offer they can't refuse.

 

[NickyNewark]

You know......oh never mind. i Your statement speaks for itself.

Looks like we found the guy who thinks hes smarter than the B1G's research firm's findings??And yeah the lets keep bashing another school to make our case guy too!! Maybe that will work? No...I see dogs wasn't the original commenter but thats OK he obviously has issues of his own...I'm to much a gentlemen to name the OP.

 

[Cleanface]

Delaney would invite UNC before they even finished asking. There are only five traditional Bluebloods in college bball, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, and UNC (UConn is as close as you can get without being one). You have to take them. The academic issue will blow over, eventually and you get the flagship school of a very fast growing state being packed with many Big10 alumni. That's not even including the academics and research they would add to The CiC. No matter what happened with the academics of the athletes, they still are a top notch school. These are 50 year decisions, remember. The scandal will have run its course in a couple years, at most.

There are six; Indiana is a blue blood. IU has more Natty's than KU or Duke, and is tied with UNC. They's definitely been down for years, but they're still a BB. UCONN right behind those six, IMO. I hate em, but facts are facts.

As has already been mentioned, B1G would take UNC in a nanosecond, and Delany would mos def ride naked thru the Canyon of Heroes.


BTW - why is the Domer commenting on the ACC GOR?? Did they even sign?? I also like how he says that UNC would bolt for the SEC rather than the B1G. Uh-huh, sure. Domer anti-B1G butthurt cry is gonna go thru the roof when we pwn their NYC/NE home away from home, and they're left with a conference full of middling nobodies (after we welcome UNC/UVA) whilst fading further into the abyss of irrelevance.

 

[upstater]

There are six; Indiana is a blue blood. IU has more Natty's than KU or Duke, and is tied with UNC. They's definitely been down for years, but they're still a BB. UCONN right behind those six, IMO. I hate em, but facts are facts.

As has already been mentioned, B1G would take UNC in a nanosecond, and Delany would mos def ride naked thru the Canyon of Heroes.


BTW - why is the Domer commenting on the ACC GOR?? Did they even sign?? I also like how he says that UNC would bolt for the SEC rather than the B1G. Uh-huh, sure. Domer anti-B1G butthurt cry is gonna go thru the roof when we pwn their NYC/NE home away from home, and they're left with a conference full of middling nobodies (after we welcome UNC/UVA) whilst fading further into the abyss of irrelevance.

By now, UConn has passed Indiana. I mean 1987? In 2 seasons, we'll be coming upon the 30th anniversary of that championship. 30 years!!!

The first two Indy championships are back from the NIT era when San Francisco and CCNY were relevant.

A very long time has passed since Indiana was competing at the highest level. I think they've fallen behind UConn.

For me, the rankings go like this:

1. Kentucky
2. UNC
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas
5a. UConn
7. Indiana
8. Louisville
9. Michigan St.
10. Irrelevant but if forced Arizona or Syracuse

 

[Cleanface]

Well, according to (((many))) Hoosier fans, Brad Stevens is about to return home to Indiana and replace Crean, so the glory years of the 1980's are just on the horizon!!

Those same Hoosier fans are Domers in the fall, BTW. Barf.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Well, according to (((many))) Hoosier fans, Brad Stevens is about to return home to Indiana.

They don't have enough cash to buy out Crean and the Celtics and bring on Stevens.