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I'm a bit confused

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SubbaBub said:
It's not the slam dunk call you think it is. 9 minutes is plenty of time to get a 2-3 more possessions. If you pin them in side the 5, maybe you get a safety and likely get good field position after a 3 and out.

Miss a 4th and 13 (you betting we have made it?) and you flip the field making two long drives necessary to win.

An aggressive coach might go for it there, but BD has been pretty consistent in not being aggressive with this offense, based on their results.

If I had any confidence in the line allowing the time for CW to take a 7 step drop, I'd say go for it. But, what have we done to inspire that as the percentage play?
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I understand your rationale but humbly disagree. 9 minutes is plenty of time for most offenses. That said, we are no "normal" offense. We will likely need 2+ games to score 10 points. 9 minutes for our offense is the equivalent of 9 seconds for other teams. We just don't have the OL to protect long enough to generate big plays. Our big play hope relies solely on a screen pass that breaks (ex - Newsome vs Temple) or a run that breaks loose. Our OL simply can't provide the time required for our WRs to get more than 10 yards down the field to get quick hitting big plays to score quickly. In this particular instance, given the score, clock and opponent, ball possession was the most important factor. We simply can't give the ball away when we have it because it takes so goddam long for our offense to move it down the field.

That said, we likely weren't going to convert 4th and 13 anyway. For the same reasons I already said in the first paragraph, our OL would not be able to give our skill positions the necessary time to get down field. The play call likely would have been a quick pass play and then hope like heck that we can break a few tackles. Or, better yet, hope for a defensive pass interference call or a penalty that would result in a 1st down. But even then, throwing up a jump ball to Davis and hope for a flag is still a better decision than freely punting the football away.
 
Diaco is in a bad place right now. His schtick won't resonate with the fans until they start seeing results. Saying they are petting the rock, or whatever he has been saying, doesn't work when there is no actual improvement on the field. Diaco hasn't done this before...and he, like Newsome, is fumbling his way through this. The punt that has been mentioned in this thread is an example of him not being able to adjust to what was going on in the field. It was obvious they had to go for it based on the flow of the game. Instead he followed his pre-game script. Like high school players adjusting to the speed of the college game, head coaches need to make the adjustment from coordinator to head coach. He isn't there yet.

I don't think he is experienced enough in fan/media relations to say anything right now to help how we think about him and the team. I do think that this is the time for Warde to step up and be honest with the fans and lay out a strategy that provides hope.

I have faith (maybe it's hope) that Diaco will get there...but in the meantime I think the AD has to take some heat off the team/coach and give the fans a reason to be optimistic there is a vision.
 
If you can't move the ball you can't punt from the 39. It doesn't matter that you probably won't convert. It's still better than losing time, stopping them and moving the ball back to the 39.
 
What makes the decision to punt even worse is burning 2 timeouts on CONSECUTIVE plays there in the 4th. I said in the in-game thread and I'll say it again: that sequence made Pasqualoni look like a Clock Management Jedi.
 
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SubbaBub said:
It's not the slam dunk call you think it is. 9 minutes is plenty of time to get a 2-3 more possessions. If you pin them in side the 5, maybe you get a safety and likely get good field position after a 3 and out.

Miss a 4th and 13 (you betting we have made it?) and you flip the field making two long drives necessary to win.

An aggressive coach might go for it there, but BD has been pretty consistent in not being aggressive with this offense, based on their results.

If I had any confidence in the line allowing the time for CW to take a 7 step drop, I'd say go for it. But, what have we done to inspire that as the percentage play?
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Given the flow of the game, it was an absolute slam dunk. 100% no brainer. I'm not saying the odds were great that we'd make it, but at that point in the game, the way both teams were playing on both sides of the ball, it made absolutely no sense to punt.
 
whaler11 said:
I'm actually the voice of reason much of the time. People just don't want to admit it because they don't like what I'm saying.
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You present ideas that merit consideration, but you rarely present them reasonably. Confidence, self assuredness, are wonderful traits. But confident and self assured people present things without the need to draw attention to themselves or to be validated. Understand the distinction.

If you have an idea, put it out there. If you believe it's important to debate something than debate it. But the value of debating something is to evaluate if the idea we present has merit and has been completely vetted. If we don't employ this, if we start out with conceit as opposed to confidence, than a conversation ends up being less about the topic discussed and more about ourselves. We turn and twist points to fill our needs as opposed to coming up with the best possible solution or solutions.
 
whaler11 said:
Just for the record I was joking.
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Didn't see this. I'll keep my post, because I think it's applicable to most of the controversial arguments. I apologize if I offended you!
 
fleudslipcon said:
You present ideas that merit consideration, but you rarely present them reasonably. Confidence, self assuredness, are wonderful traits. But confident and self assured people present things without the need to draw attention to themselves or to be validated. Understand the distinction.

If you have an idea, put it out there. If you believe it's important to debate something than debate it. But the value of debating something is to evaluate if the idea we present has merit and has been completely vetted. If we don't employ this, if we start out with conceit as opposed to confidence, than a conversation ends up being less about the topic discussed and more about ourselves. We turn and twist points to fill our needs as opposed to coming up with the best possible solution or solutions.
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What do I owe you for the session doc?
 
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whaler11 said:
What do I owe you for the session doc?
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It was strong and I regret taking you to task specifically when most of us are guilty of doing things I accused you of doing.
 
If anything im concerned about the Offensive Line... they're terrible. That's what led to the Saftey, that's why our QB(s) didn't have any time all night. Secondly, the offensive play calling is questionable. I know Mike Cummings is playing with the cards he was dealt and knows the limitations of what he has. But scoring 3 points and expecting to win a game in FBS college football is redculous. We have the worst offense in the entire nation.

Our Defense played pretty well, minus a few key completed passes deep into our secondary. Byron Jones isn't playing up to his potential and hasn't all season long. He's so talented and hasn't been able to capture it.

At the end of the day, its time to cut our losses with Chandler Whitmer and just start Tim Boyle, get him some reps with the first team offsense the rest of the year, and pray our O-line improves somehow so he doesn't get injured.

Bob Diaco is not the issue here. He's a smart, young, energetic coach with big plans and big expectations out of these young men, this program, our state, and yes- even us fans.

As horrible as it is to sit through these games and see the bottom of the barrel, we need to all keep supporting this team, because next year, and the year after it will be better, and we will have a program to be proud about again. Its a process. I believe in Diaco and where he's taking this thing.
 
Jimmy Serrano said:
Just so you know the situation: Down 12-3 with about 9 change left in the game. 4th & 13 at the Tulane 39. Punt.

That is not a lesson I expect any football professional to have to "learn on the job".
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I'm glad I wasn't watching.
 
SubbaBub said:
It's not the slam dunk call you think it is. 9 minutes is plenty of time to get a 2-3 more possessions. If you pin them in side the 5, maybe you get a safety and likely get good field position after a 3 and out.

Miss a 4th and 13 (you betting we have made it?) and you flip the field making two long drives necessary to win.

An aggressive coach might go for it there, but BD has been pretty consistent in not being aggressive with this offense, based on their results.

If I had any confidence in the line allowing the time for CW to take a 7 step drop, I'd say go for it. But, what have we done to inspire that as the percentage play?
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Got to say I agree with this. It's the conservative choice.

You know your offense is anemic so you go with your good punter and a good defense and you try to pin Tulane's weak offense down deep.

Nine plus minutes left and down nine points is not desperation time.
 
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whaler11 said:
It's an absolute no brainer to go for it. From the 39 it's almost always an absolute no brainer at any point in the game.

If you are going to punt there you may as well just wave a white flag and head back to the locker room.
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4th and 13? 4th and 5, yes.
 
UConn76 said:
How does HCBD preach to a new recruit that there is a light at the end of the tunnel? 1-11 only speaks of the possibility of some playing time...Nothing else.. and in the interim, we'll have less than 25,000 on hand for the UCF and balance of the year games..
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Immediate playing time and the facilities is all I can come up.
 
I don't have a problem with the punt, especially with the outcome of the punt pinning them at the 3 yard line.

I have a problem with us not understanding that it is "four-down territory" on our third down play calling. That's where I have the problem. On third down, you have to pick up a chunk of the 13 yards, but you don't necessarily have to pick it all up. That's the issue that I had...
 
fleudslipcon said:
It was strong and I regret taking you to task specifically when most of us are guilty of doing things I accused you of doing.
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Don't worry about it. It's mostly right.

We are typing on phones about a 1-5 team while doing a dozen other things. That some nuance is lost isn't surprising.
 
SubbaBub said:
4th and 13? 4th and 5, yes.
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4th and goal from the 39.

Unless you are up one score late in the game there really is never much of a reason to punt from the 39.
 
UConnDan97 said:
I don't have a problem with the punt, especially with the outcome of the punt pinning them at the 3 yard line.

I have a problem with us not understanding that it is "four-down territory" on our third down play calling. That's where I have the problem. On third down, you have to pick up a chunk of the 13 yards, but you don't necessarily have to pick it all up. That's the issue that I had...
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Pinning them at the 3 yard line really worked out well for us. If we went for it there and don't make it we probably lose 12-3.
 
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whaler11 said:
4th and goal from the 39.

Unless you are up one score late in the game there really is never much of a reason to punt from the 39.
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There is a good argument to be made that you shouldn't punt on 4th from that 35-40 yard out range any time in a game.
 
The psychological component of coaching a team, and leading a team, is what is lost when you punt like that, in a situation like that. Bill Stewart, RIP, did something similar against us back in 2010, in a similar situation, tight game, late - punted from inside the 40. We were a strong enough team, to take that psychological momentum swing and get the game to OT, and win. That game started our run to the Fiesta Bowl. Bill Stewart never recovered from it.
 
Carl Spackler said:
There is a good argument to be made that you shouldn't punt on 4th from that 35-40 yard out range any time in a game.
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The math of course supports that. The other thing you see when coach's are being aggressive their players respond.

Every week you can see this - ECU and SMU perfect example:

Down 21-0 SMU goes for it three times on a drive starting at midfield.

They get back in the game because they are like 5-6 on fourth down.

Down 14... they tighten up and kick a field goal and never theatened again.

When you have nothing to lose, you'll have more success if you act like it.

If you can't score the last thing you want to do is give up a rare opportunity.
 
whaler11 said:
The math of course supports that. The other thing you see when coach's are being aggressive their players respond.

Every week you can see this - ECU and SMU perfect example:

Down 21-0 SMU goes for it three times on a drive starting at midfield.

They get back in the game because they are like 5-6 on fourth down.

Down 14... they tighten up and kick a field goal and never theatened again.

When you have nothing to lose, you'll have more success if you act like it.

If you can't score the last thing you want to do is give up a rare opportunity.
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The last line is what nails it. You can't give up the rare opportunity to actually generate a scoring chance when your offense is this bad. It's that simple.
 
UConn76 said:
Don't disagree with anything said here...but the problem is that the perception of the program by the talking heads in the media and by UConn fans is that the program has gone down the tubes. Several of the performances haven't been even close to D1 standards. How does HCBD preach to a new recruit that there is a light at the end of the tunnel? 1-11 only speaks of the possibility of some playing time...Nothing else.. and in the interim, we'll have less than 25,000 on hand for the UCF and balance of the year games..
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the media declares every program dead that isn't living up to standards. Texas, Michigan, are and Auburn a few years back was 'dead'. they all have the same issues of a down season. Baylor was dead way back when they had that shooting.
when it comes to media, especially when dealing with college football, its what have you done lately to the extreme.
 
Marty Jackson said:
the media declares every program dead that isn't living up to standards. Texas, Michigan, are and Auburn a few years back was 'dead'. they all have the same issues of a down season. Baylor was dead way back when they had that shooting.
when it comes to media, especially when dealing with college football, its what have you done lately to the extreme.
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Agree. It also has consequences. Recruits see the media hype. I don't know what percentage are influenced by the hype and what percentage ignore it.
 
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