If Shabazz DOES go pro this year...

[Sportsman5]

I thought originally a player had to get his degree to make the list. Does anyone know if this was once true?

Shabazz would be close. A championship is definitely a good thing. I think if we could have played in 3-5 post season games this year and he did well in them/ continued to climb up the all time lists of points, assists, and steals, than that would help his case some.

 

[Jerry1714]

Did Rudy really do that much worse than Caron?

Freshman year: 2001 vs 2005:

Caron: 15.3 Pts, 7.6 Reb, 3.1 Ast, 20-12 (8-8)
Rudy: 11.8 Pts, 5.4 Reb, 1.5 Ast, 23-8 (13-3)
Rudy went to the NCAAT and went to the second round and won a BE regular season trophy

Sophomore year: 2002 vs 2006:

Caron: 20.3 Pts, 7.5 Reb, 3.0 Ast, 27-7 (13-3)
Rudy: 15.2 Pts, 6.4 Reb, 2.1 Ast, 30-4 (14-2)
Both went to the Elite Eight, both won a BE regular season trophy. Caron's team also won the BET.

Rudy's individual stats were lower, but his team's accomplishments are pretty close to Caron's. Butler has a BET trophy, but Rudy went to the NCAAT twice and picked up an additional BE regular season trophy.

Yes, Caron took over more than Rudy did, but it's not like Rudy's teams actually accomplished less.

Until Kemba I have never seen a UConn player carry a team more then Caron did in 2002. That team had no business getting the E8.

 

[Waquoit]

For me, the Huskies of Honor list is meaningless until they add Khalid El-Amin. He is the guy that put UConn over the hump. JC made UConn a top program, but one that could never make it to the FF. KEA inserted a degree of leadership and competitiveness that was lacking from other honorees that came before. He took over the program on his recruiting visit for crying out loud. It's a shame he turned an ankle the year after the NC. The team would have made a nother nice run. Folks forget he gave Gilbert Arenas a basketball lesson earlier that year.

 

[Waquoit]

Did Rudy really do that much worse than Caron?....

Yes, Caron took over more than Rudy did, but it's not like Rudy's teams actually accomplished less.

The problem with your analysis is calling it "Rudy's team". No team was ever Rudy's team. Caron led, Rudy followed.

 

[caw]

Until Kemba I have never seen a UConn player carry a team more then Caron did in 2002. That team had no business getting the E8.

I agree that Caron did carry the team, but my point was that both players got their teams to the same spot. Rudy filled the role he needed to on that team with a lot of upperclassmen with rings. Caron filled the role of a leader on a team filled with underclassmen.

 

[caw]

The problem with your analysis is calling it "Rudy's team". No team was ever Rudy's team. Caron led, Rudy followed.

The hate for Rudy is amazing.

 

[Dove]

The problem with your analysis is calling it "Rudy's team". No team was ever Rudy's team. Caron led, Rudy followed.

I didn't want to look up the media guide but didn't think Rudy was ever the star of his team.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Bazz belongs. He's done more for UConn than Rudy Gay did. He was a crucial piece of a national championship team and he's carried two very limited teams since. If he doesn't make AA lists, it's an oversight by the national media, not Bazz's fault.

Not to bash the kid, but...
1) Yes, he was a crucial piece of the NC team, but he was no more than the 4th best player on that team behind Walker, Lamb, and Oriakhi.
2) He did not carry last year's team, and if he did, what did he carry them to exactly? Shabazz had a very up-and-down sophomore year. He had some great games, and he had some absolutely awful games. We can't give him credit for being part of an overachieving team this year without acknowledging that he was also part of an underachieving team last year.
3) He has unquestionably had an outstanding junior season. But as great as it's been, is it really on par with the final years that some of the other Huskies of Honor had? Kemba, Emeka, Rip, etc.?

 

[caw]

I didn't want to look up the media guide but didn't think Rudy was ever the star of his team.

The POY and All-American voters disagreed.

 

[Vuce]

Until Kemba I have never seen a UConn player carry a team more then Caron did in 2002. .

This. At the time Uconn was eliminated from the NCAA Tourney that year you could have made the case that Caron was performing better than any player in the country. This is something that stats alone will not show you. If you saw them both play in their last year at Uconn you know what I am talking about. To be fair, if Rudy came back for his junior year he may very well have reached that level.

 

[businesslawyer]

Did Rudy really do that much worse than Caron?

Freshman year: 2001 vs 2005:

Caron: 15.3 Pts, 7.6 Reb, 3.1 Ast, 20-12 (8-8)
Rudy: 11.8 Pts, 5.4 Reb, 1.5 Ast, 23-8 (13-3)
Rudy went to the NCAAT and went to the second round and won a BE regular season trophy

Sophomore year: 2002 vs 2006:

Caron: 20.3 Pts, 7.5 Reb, 3.0 Ast, 27-7 (13-3)
Rudy: 15.2 Pts, 6.4 Reb, 2.1 Ast, 30-4 (14-2)
Both went to the Elite Eight, both won a BE regular season trophy. Caron's team also won the BET.

Rudy's individual stats were lower, but his team's accomplishments are pretty close to Caron's. Butler has a BET trophy, but Rudy went to the NCAAT twice and picked up an additional BE regular season trophy.

Yes, Caron took over more than Rudy did, but it's not like Rudy's teams actually accomplished less.

That is why numbers are of such limited use. Caron and rudy had similar numbers, on similar teams. But that is where the comparison ended. Caron was the friggin team. In '06, Rudy played with Marcus, Rashad, Denham, Hilton, Boone, Nelson and Adrien. You can easily make a case that the team would have been better if Rudy wasn't there and Rashad and Denham could have had more minutes in crunch time.

 

[businesslawyer]

The POY and All-American voters disagreed.

Yes. But they know far less about UConn basketball teams than many on this board.

 

[businesslawyer]

Bazz belongs. He's done more for UConn than Rudy Gay did. He was a crucial piece of a national championship team and he's carried two very limited teams since. If he doesn't make AA lists, it's an oversight by the national media, not Bazz's fault.

I don't agree with this. Bazz has huge balls, and plays in crunch time with guts and passion. But he does not play hard, on both sides of the ball, for 40 minutes a game night in and night out. Not like Caron did. Not like Kemba did.

 

[businesslawyer]

100% agree. You can also put AJ Price in that discussion.

You are correct. AJ, over career, probably slightly ahead of KO. And El-Amin would/should be on that list as well.

 

[Hugo]

I'd loosely group Bazz along with KEA and AJ as exceptionally good Huskies, but a notch behind those two. If the selection criteria and process says KEA and AJ aren't included, then neither should Bazz. Any perceived "watering down" of this honor neeeds to be understood and the definition of "great" must be consistent, hence some questions re: Rudy vs Caron and Ben.

 

[msgordon]

If Rudy is up there because of objective criteria, so be it. But, as good a pro as he is, Rudy accomplished doodly squat here compared to Ben, Caron and frankly many others (Boone, Thabeet, Adrien, and you can make a case for KO). His numbers were good, and his potential for the NBA was enormous, but in terms of making the team better and leading it to new heights -- you can't even make a case for Rudy.

2005 Big East Freshman of the Year
2005 Sporting News National Freshman of the Year
2006 Big East 1st team
2006 One of four Wooden Award Finalists
2006 NABC 1st team All-American, AP 2nd team All-American

2 Big East regular season championships (our last two)
53-12 overall record, 27-5 Big East record

yes, we lost to George Mason. he played very well in that game. get over it.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I'd loosely group Bazz along with KEA and AJ as exceptionally good Huskies, but a notch behind those two. If the selection criteria and process says KEA and AJ aren't included, then neither should Bazz. Any perceived "watering down" of this honor neeeds to be understood and the definition of "great" must be consistent, hence some questions re: Rudy vs Caron and Ben.

I agree with this. Bazz has to come back and lead us to a top-10 caliber season (BE contenders, noise in the BET, E8 or better) to be considered.

Also, my 2 cents on the Rudy/Caron question: Rudy was the best player on that 2006 team, but he was not its leader (that was MW). Caron was both, and their teams had similar accomplishments in their sophomore/final seasons. Caron deserves it as much as Rudy does, if not more.

 

[businesslawyer]

2005 Big East Freshman of the Year
2005 Sporting News National Freshman of the Year
2006 Big East 1st team
2006 One of four Wooden Award Finalists
2006 NABC 1st team All-American, AP 2nd team All-American

2 Big East regular season championships (our last two)
53-12 overall record, 27-5 Big East record

yes, we lost to George Mason. he played very well in that game. get over it.

Rudy was a good player, who if he stayed another year would have been an All American. I was a seasonticket holder his two years. He was nowhere near one of the fifteen or twenty most important players in the country. He just wasn't. The impact of him not being on the team either of those years would have been very little.

That's not knocking him (not like he needs me to justify his career). but it is true.

 

[pj]

I don't agree with this. Bazz has huge balls, and plays in crunch time with guts and passion. But he does not play hard, on both sides of the ball, for 40 minutes a game night in and night out. Not like Caron did. Not like Kemba did.

I think you're severely underestimating the degree to which Bazz has subordinated his game to the development of team chemistry and of the other players. He is Kevin Ollie's right hand and is helping to develop the team for next year. The fact that he can routinely turn it on in crunch time shows you what he could be doing statistically if he were out for his own stats and accolades.

Personally, every time I watch I see him playing hard. But he defers to other players in the first 35 minutes. Other great players at UConn did more to conserve their energy, including Ray Allen. That kind of strategic play should not be counted too severely against a great player. The key is to win the game, not to dominate every minute of play. Players like Ray won a disproportionate share of games, and so does Bazz. You can't look at the interior players this team has and say it has any business having the record it has. That success is all due to Bazz.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think you're severely underestimating the degree to which Bazz has subordinated his game to the development of team chemistry and of the other players. He is Kevin Ollie's right hand and is helping to develop the team for next year. The fact that he can routinely turn it on in crunch time shows you what he could be doing statistically if he were out for his own stats and accolades.

Personally, every time I watch I see him playing hard. But he defers to other players in the first 35 minutes. Other great players at UConn did more to conserve their energy, including Ray Allen. That kind of strategic play should not be counted too severely against a great player. The key is to win the game, not to dominate every minute of play. Players like Ray won a disproportionate share of games, and so does Bazz. You can't look at the interior players this team has and say it has any business having the record it has. That success is all due to Bazz.

I could listen to that if you explain how he's developing his teammates for next year by not keeping his man in front of him consistently on defense.

 

[upstater]

It is true that Kemba took plays off and kind of drifted during games. He had to. He would have keeled over had he not. Shabaz really has no one else who can take over for him the way Bazz took the reins for Kemba. RJ is really the only one.

 

[pj]

I could listen to that if you explain how he's developing his teammates for next year by not keeping his man in front of him consistently on defense.

Obviously, he's trying to give them more opportunities to practice their help defense.

 

[sparky]

He is a very good player, but not Great. I am not sure he would be in the GREAT category even if he stays. I hope he stays and proves me wrong.

 

[upstater]

He is a very good player, but not Great. I am not sure he would be in the GREAT category even if he stays. I hope he stays and proves me wrong.

He may finish better than AJ Price, and the fact he made it through this key transition will be bigger than what Price gave the school, so in that respect, I'd be all for Napier getting it after playing as a senior.

 

[CL82]

No, and its not close in my opinion.

Oh I don't know about that I'd say he's only one more national championship away.

 

[CL82]

I think you're severely underestimating the degree to which Bazz has subordinated his game to the development of team chemistry and of the other players. He is Kevin Ollie's right hand and is helping to develop the team for next year. The fact that he can routinely turn it on in crunch time shows you what he could be doing statistically if he were out for his own stats and accolades.

Personally, every time I watch I see him playing hard. But he defers to other players in the first 35 minutes. Other great players at UConn did more to conserve their energy, including Ray Allen. That kind of strategic play should not be counted too severely against a great player. The key is to win the game, not to dominate every minute of play. Players like Ray won a disproportionate share of games, and so does Bazz. You can't look at the interior players this team has and say it has any business having the record it has. That success is all due to Bazz.

I've noticed this as well but hadn't thought it through as much as you have. So you are saying that he's saving gas for what El Amin referred to as "winning time?" Interesting observation.

 

[ktuck911]

I'm going to say that he falls short if he leaves after this year.

Ur nuts... This kid won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshman... Hit two FTs to ice the game at that. On the biggest stage of college basketball as a true frosh... AND, he's running the show.. He's a proven leader, with NOTHING up front... NOTHING... Boatwright needs to prove more than he does, most definitely... but Bazz has shown he's a Husky of Honor.. Period, end of story...

That sense of 'what have you done for me lately' fan mentality only jives at the pro level, NOT here...

 

[Huskybass]

He is a very good player, but not Great. I am not sure he would be in the GREAT category even if he stays. I hope he stays and proves me wrong.

How many non-great players score 28 and 27 points in consecutive Big East games? Bazz has absolutely carried this team.

 

[dtrumpet]

This. At the time Uconn was eliminated from the NCAA Tourney that year you could have made the case that Caron was performing better than any player in the country. This is something that stats alone will not show you. If you saw them both play in their last year at Uconn you know what I am talking about. To be fair, if Rudy came back for his junior year he may very well have reached that level.

And it took a huge game by Juan Dixon to knock that team out. Butler and Dixon essentially putting both teams on their backs in the second half, going at it possession after possession, made for an absolutely great tournament game. What Caron was to that team, Rudy was not for his, maybe because he didn't have to be, but he wasn't.
And Shabazz? He doesn't belong there yet, if he comes back and builds on this year, and takes a deep run in the NCAA, then maybe, because he will be seen as a pivotal player at a pivotal time, maybe the most important to sustaining the program. But if he leaves after this year, that job is not yet done.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Ur nuts... This kid won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshman... Hit two FTs to ice the game at that. On the biggest stage of college basketball as a true frosh... AND, he's running the show.. He's a proven leader, with NOTHING up front... NOTHING... Boatwright needs to prove more than he does, most definitely... but Bazz has shown he's a Husky of Honor.. Period, end of story...

That sense of 'what have you done for me lately' fan mentality only jives at the pro level, NOT here...

So what exactly in your little rant qualifies Shabazz for an honor that Ben Gordon and Caron Butler haven't even received yet? He's not the only freshman to win a championship at Uconn. He's not the only "proven leader" we've ever had. I'm not sure that "being better than Ryan Boatright" is a qualification either. You gotta do better than that.