I was curious, just how good is RI & Hurley

[Husky68]

As requested, 3pt FG% defense

RI 67th at 32.9

1) Grand Canyon
2) UK
3) Penn
4) S AL
5) SD
6) VA
7) Northeastern
8) Sam Houston
9) Middle TN
10) N KY
11) Green Bay
12) Boise

save for UK and VA, not exactly the type of teams you find at the top of the statistical charts I value most and posted, and URI is not near the top of that stat either

again, FWIW, somebody who thought I was posting "garbage numbers" thought looking at this would be more valuable

Three Pt FG Defense | DI Men's Basketball Statistics - NCAA.com

Sometimes with defensive stats it's as much bad offense as good defense. Would expect that crummier leagues might also have crummier 3 point shooters, that would help your 3 point defensive %. In their league Fordham #347 @ 29.2%, George Washington #328 @ 31.8%, Richmond #321 @ 32%and St. Louis 310 @ 31%; some pretty poor shooting teams. Still 32.9% on defense is pretty good just probably as much reflective of opponents abilities as their defense.
UConn offensive 3 point shooting @ 32.7% which is barely in top 300 (out of 351) but funny to see Rutgers at # 349 @ 28.8%. Guess the Calhoun coaching tree not the best at coaching up 3 point shooting, can't blame Rutgers shooting % on Ollie, or maybe since they took Ollie assistants maybe we can.

 

[Storrs South]

I think he's a good coach,just want a fair comparison.

Here's basically all the coaching candidates and their rankings according to KenPom at the schools where they built their name or are currently building their resume. Just from looking at this graph, Hurley, Crean, and Musselman are the most impressive in my opinion and I guess Mack too for retaining Xavier as an excellent program (not as much from building something).

 

[willie99]

Garbage number means they're bad. As in the team is bad. Take a chill pill

I'm completely relaxed, this stuff can't cause me anxiety (the discussion that is, the bad play bums me out)

I understand UConn's numbers suck too, but nobody is saying "Ollie's teams remind me of Jim Calhoun"

 

[UConnDad]

Here's basically all the coaching candidates and their rankings according to KenPom at the schools where they built their name or are currently building their resume. Just from looking at this graph, Hurley, Crean, and Musselman are the most impressive in my opinion and I guess Mack too for retaining Xavier as an excellent program (not as much from building something).

This is by far the most colorful opinion yet.

 

[WrenchFan69]

The fact is they better be better at guarding the perimeter because they hardly ever have anyone over 6'5" on the court at any time of the game. They are small, faster and should be good at that. So having said that while they guard the 3 really well those garbage numbers point to the fact they can't stop the 2 as well as most because they are too small.

I'm not dissing Hurley I have no idea if he's the answer, I mean he does win. Just hope he doesn't like small ball too much because it may win in the A10 regular season, but it will not win NC's you need bigs and preferably 2 on the court most of the time. I don't know enough about his teams over the years to think he just can't get bigs or prefers to play small, but as I said I would hope he'd change with the need.

Hurley played with bigs when he had bigs. Lost two All-A10 level bigs to graduation. 6 of his best 8 players are guards, he has to go small.

 

[Jaker]

What is RI. Best win this season?

 

[WrenchFan69]

What is RI. Best win this season?

Seton Hall, Providence, or St. Bonaventure. All around about the same level at this point I'd say

 

[Banta55]

The reason Hurley didn't go to Rutgers is because he didn't want to uproot his kids, they go to Bishop Hendrickon...If he took the UConn job he could commute , Tom Moore commutes from Tolland to URI....I think this a big factor..

 

[Whtdmd]

The reason Hurley didn't go to Rutgers is because he didn't want to uproot his kids, they go to Bishop Hendrickon...If he took the UConn job he could commute , Tom Moore commutes from Tolland to URI....I think this a big factor..

The reason he did not go to Rutgers is that they did not offer him the job. Its a myth that Rutgers went out of the way to offer him the position

 

[the Q]

The reason Hurley didn't go to Rutgers is because he didn't want to uproot his kids, they go to Bishop Hendrickon...If he took the UConn job he could commute , Tom Moore commutes from Tolland to URI....I think this a big factor..

That isn’t exactly an easy commute.

 

[intlzncster]

I am not an expert by any means when it comes to modern day statistics, but wouldn't using something like KenPom's efficiency metrics be a better indicator since they account for pace of play, shot diversification (2s v. 3s), and other critical variables that raw FG% and rebounding margins cannot? They obviously are somewhat indicative but don't tell the whole story.

Take for example:

Wagner

• 2009-2010 was KenPom 335 before Hurley joins the program, one of the worst teams in the country
• 2010-2011 -- Hurley's first season with the program, and immediate improvement finishing the season KenPom 230 (Increase by 135 spots)
• 2011-2012 -- Hurley's second and last season with Wagner, another huge jump in improvement finishing KenPom 102 (Increase by 128 spots). He took one of the worst teams in CBB and in 2 years had them playing decent basketball. He is then hired away by Rhode Island after the season
• 2012-13 Hurley has left the program and Wagner falls back to KenPom 184 (decrease by 82 spots)

Overall, in 2 seasons Hurley took Wagner from #335 to #102 that's a 180 degree turnaround.

Rhode Island

• 2011-2012 was KenPom 225 before Hurley joins the program, not as bad as Wagner started in his tenure there but not significantly worse than the nice KenPom 173 Ollie has UConn at currently for those looking for a benchmark
• 2012-2013 -- Hurley's first season with the program, like Wagner there's a jump in rankings up to KenPom 193 (Increase by 32 spots). Not as significant as we saw with Wagner but still improvement
• 2013-2014 -- Hurley's second season with URI, and would you look at they finish the year KenPom 115 (Increase by 78 spots). The same story is starting to take hold again and in both cases the jumps between year 1 & year 2 are quite noticeable on paper.
• 2014-2015 -- Hurley's third season with URI, and don't look now but they finish the year KenPom 60! They make it to the NIT and lose in the 2nd round.
• 2015-2016 -- Hurley's fourth season with URI, they finish the year KenPom 82. The one of the few times in this story where Hurley goes backwards using KenPom as the gold standard for measuring the quality of a team's performance. I think he had a lot of guys graduate and transfer after the previous season but I wont use that as an excuse since I'm tired of hearing it used as an excuse for UConn's current slide from KenPom 26 in 2015-16 to KenPom 96 (decrease by 70) last year to KenPom 173 (decrease by 77) this year. The drop this season was small nevertheless. Anyway back to the story...
• 2016-2017 -- Hurley's fifth season with URI, they finish the season KenPom 34! As we all saw last year they make it to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney and lose a close game almost making it to the 2nd weekend.
• 2017-2018 -- (in progress) Hurley's URI Rams currently sit at KenPom 47 as of this posting.

Overall, he took a team that was KenPom 225 and has them in the NCAA Tournament in back to back seasons by years 5 & 6. Another 180 degree turnaround, the kind UConn could use right about now.

Now to summarize this, it's likely none of us have watched much Wagner or URI basketball from the last decade, but on paper it is evident that the moment Hurley comes to a program it immediately turns around and does so in a hurry. What Hurley accomplished in a short stint at Wagner and in his current role at URI are remarkable when you consider 1) the conference 2) the facilities 3) the non-existent or relatively non-existent fanbases 4) minimal exposure 5) history 6) ability to recruit (which goes back to 1 through 5) and 7) brand

If Hurley does come here, I don't want to set him up for failure or anything but can you imagine what he could do with KenPom 173 UConn when he got these mid-majors to play quality basketball almost immediately. We are basically in the exact spot URI was before Hurley came to Kingston and look where they are now.

There are not many coaches every year that come around with this kind of track record of building programs at institutions where resources are lacking. Even if they lost the 1st game of the NCAA Tourney it wouldn't matter to me. Considering where he had to start from at Wagner & URI I think this is only the beginning of what he can do when given proper resources and quality recruits to be competitive on the national stage.

This is a great post. It perfectly lays out the point I always harp on: it's all about the trend. Wish I had written it. Doesn't make any sense to compare overall stats of a program given different starting points. Nor so for programs being compared directly to each other, given the differences in leagues.

When looking at programs he's taken over, Hurley has improved them steadily, and most recently even had URI nationally ranked, even though they have no business being so.

 

[intlzncster]

Why do you have to call them garbage numbers. Data is data

Annual trend is more important in assessing a guys body of work. Overall doesn't tell much of a story.

And comparing anybody to JC is silly.

 

[intlzncster]

Due to storm was housebound and got to watch URI.
I believe Hurley is a little overrated for the big stage.
1. The 40 beatdown has been discussed enough
2. His team folded after having the game in hand last night.

The loss hinged on a kid who missed the front end of a 1 and 1 twice. He's a mid 80s free throw shooter. I think he had a dumb defensive play too. Kid just had a bad night.

If Hurley has aspirations of coming to Connecticut, go mentor on the bench under Calhoun for a couple of seasons.

Ollie did that. He currently has the program in the worst state it's ever been. Clearly not important.

If the decision is to remove Ollie, we can do better as a program

Who? I hear people say it, but nobody gives satisfactory answers, for coaches who are actually available.

Mack, Marshall, et al aren't leaving their schools. Pikiell isn't better, nor is he leaving. Musselman may or may not be better, but I doubt he'd come, or if he did, he'd be leaving in a few years.

For the record, I want to do a national search. But who do you see as a better candidate?

 

[Huskyforlife]

I’m glad we’re too good for Hurley now. We don’t have to worry about him saying no.

 

[the Q]

The loss hinged on a kid who missed the front end of a 1 and 1 twice. He's a mid 80s free throw shooter. I think he had a dumb defensive play too. Kid just had a bad night.



Ollie did that. He currently has the program in the worst state it's ever been. Clearly not important.



Who? I hear people say it, but nobody gives satisfactory answers, for coaches who are actually available.

Mack, Marshall, et al aren't leaving their schools. Pikiell isn't better, nor is he leaving. Musselman may or may not be better, but I doubt he'd come, or if he did, he'd be leaving in a few years.

For the record, I want to do a national search. But who do you see as a better candidate?

Haven’t heard much talk about the buffalo guy, Ron Sanchez or CB McGrath.

 

[len0322]

The loss hinged on a kid who missed the front end of a 1 and 1 twice. He's a mid 80s free throw shooter. I think he had a dumb defensive play too. Kid just had a bad night.



Ollie did that. He currently has the program in the worst state it's ever been. Clearly not important.

I think hitting the reset button can do more harm than good...out of the numerous candidates I've heard, the one that is most intriguing is Micah Shrewsberry and I'm not sure if

Who? I hear people say it, but nobody gives satisfactory answers, for coaches who are actually available.

Mack, Marshall, et al aren't leaving their schools. Pikiell isn't better, nor is he leaving. Musselman may or may not be better, but I doubt he'd come, or if he did, he'd be leaving in a few years.

For the record, I want to do a national search. But who do you see as a better candidate?

Actually think blowing up could do more harm than good.
Don't like many choices offered.
Saw somewhere that Micah Shrewsberry could be a candidate.
Been under Brad Stevens for 10 yrs with Butler and Celtics.
Not sure if available, but I'd like a candidate like that.

 

[Scrutineer]

I would be happy with Hurley. I wouldn't limit the search (been there, done that), but I feel he would certainly be an improvement.
I would not be happy with Hobbs or Miller. Some here have made them out to be great coaches. I don't think any of Calhoun's assistants have proven anything except maybe Steve. I wish them all success, but, collectively, they have not fared well.

Maybe not as head coaches, but look at Rutgers' defense and compare it to UConn right now. They looked really tough in the Big 10 tournament. Could it be the defense at UConn has been so weak the past two years is because Hobbs has been at Rutgers the past two years?
Or is it we don't have the shot blockers we had every year since Okafor arrived? Lots of layups this year, maybe because the guards are cheating to guard the outside shot and no big to stop the drives after they beat our guards.
Of course, if you are cheating outside to guard the three how can you be so bad guarding the three?

 

[willie99]

Now, since we like to compare the last two seasons, I have to go the speculation route.

Some people continue to bash Ollie and consider him a lessor coach because of more recent results, which begs this question if you really want to have a fair discussion.

What if Hurley's best player unexpectedly declared for the NBA draft before the 16/17 season?
And then, a big recruit gets hurt in August of 2016 and misses the 16/17 season. And then 2 of his three best remaining players go down for the season in November of 2016.
I wonder how good RI would have been last year.

Then his best recruit for 17/18 decommits because the coach who recruited him was fired. And then his mostly higher regarded recruit goes down for the season again, And then his team's second leading scorer fractures his nasal canal while still recovering from his torn ACL and essentially sucks down the stretch.

I wonder how good RI would be. If RI had all those injuries, and CT had none of them, who do you think would look like the better coach?

Again, I'm not bashing Hurley, I'm really not, I just think a little balance goes a long way

Our program has been absolutely devastated by injuries the last two seasons, and other stuff didn't help either. Now I do think the team should have competed more even with the injuries, but let's not pretend they didn't happen and they weren't significant.

If that's some sort of "agenda" of mine, so be it, it's legit.

 

[willie99]

Maybe not as head coaches, but look at Rutgers' defense and compare it to UConn right now. They looked really tough in the Big 10 tournament. Could it be the defense at UConn has been so weak the past two years is because Hobbs has been at Rutgers the past two years?
Or is it we don't have the shot blockers we had every year since Okafor arrived? Lots of layups this year, maybe because the guards are cheating to guard the outside shot and no big to stop the drives after they beat our guards.
Of course, if you are cheating outside to guard the three how can you be so bad guarding the three?

Because we have all inexperienced kids in the paint. I think one of our strengths going forward will be our interior play, especially when the current freshmen become juniors and seniors. Upperclassmen, that's what helping programs like URI and Wichita St a lot this year. When you're not landing top ten classes, it's all about the experience.

 

[intlzncster]

Saw somewhere that Micah Shrewsberry could be a candidate.
Been under Brad Stevens for 10 yrs with Butler and Celtics.
Not sure if available, but I'd like a candidate like that.

Why would anyone want a candidate like that? He has no head coaching experience once so ever. We've been down that path and it's a huge gamble.

Without HC experience, it's a non starter. The 'mentor' thing is overrated, in all sports.

Haven’t heard much talk about the buffalo guy, Ron Sanchez or CB McGrath.

Sanchez - No HC experience. Not a viable candidate.
Mcgrath - 2 years HC experience. 10–20 (.333) at UNCW. What makes him appealing?

Nate Oats (Buffalo) is someone to look at, though very green. Three years HC with a 60-38 record. Also coached Romulus HS for 11 years with a 222-52 record.

 

[intlzncster]

Also with Tom Moore as Head Coach URI next year with their current returning nucleus plus recruiting class...should put them in the Top 3 in the A10 next year and competing for a bid. So with Hurley those expectations wouldn't change.

If Hurley were to come, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Tom Moore follow, if only because of the history involved.

 

[len0322]

Why would anyone want a candidate like that? He has no head coaching experience once so ever. We've been down that path and it's a huge gamble.

Without HC experience, it's a non starter. The 'mentor' thing is overrated, in all sports.



Sanchez - No HC experience. Not a viable candidate.
Mcgrath - 2 years HC experience. 10–20 (.333) at UNCW. What makes him appealing?

Nate Oats (Buffalo) is someone to look at, though very green. Three years HC with a 60-38 record. Also coached Romulus HS for 11 years with a 222-52 record.

Who is your candidate?

 

[intlzncster]

Who is your candidate?

I don't claim to be any expert. But there are definite bare minimums. So it's pretty easy to eliminate candidates and determine who would be worse than someone like Hurley.

You claimed we can do better. I just wondered who you think is better, or on the same level, and why.

Hurley is vastly superior to any of the guys listed before so he's definitely on the list. He's got a large number of pluses in his column.

I've also heard Becker and Skerry bandied about. Both have some appeal for different reasons. Musselman looks good, but for a variety of reasons, I don't think it would work.

 

[len0322]

The best thing probably for both of us is we don’t have the pressure deciding minimums, if Ollie should go, or who Will be the coach next year will be.

All I want is for this program to be relevant again and be in a position to be playing in early April. I’d also like to see us come out and play Houston tough tomorrow.

 

[Whtdmd]

Tom Crean is miles ahead of Hurley.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Actually watched Buffalo play the other night against Bowling Green. Most impressed with how hard Oats gets the team to play. And they blew out BG impressively.

But I didn’t see much structure on offense or on defense. TBH, the offense looks a lot like ours, but with better and more numerous three point shooters and a solid post player with touch around the hoop.

 

[intlzncster]

Actually watched Buffalo play the other night against Bowling Green. Most impressed with how hard Oats gets the team to play. And they blew out BG impressively.

But I didn’t see much structure on offense or on defense. TBH, the offense looks a lot like ours, but with better and more numerous three point shooters and a solid post player with touch around the hoop.

Problem for me when discussing is I've never really seen any of these guys teams outside of URI (seen 3-4 games). I can only look at records, trends, recruits etc.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Haven’t heard much talk about the buffalo guy, Ron Sanchez or CB McGrath.

Didn't Rick Majerus once say, "I'm not a big buffalo guy"?

 

[Chief00]

Hurley has URI at 23-6 and 44th in the country in scoring margin and 76th in assists per game. URI is 67th in the nation in 3 pt fg defense.

UConn is 14-16 with a losing record for the 2nd straight year and is 293rd in scoring margin and 342nd in assists per game. UConn is 260th in the nation in 3 point fg defense.

I can cite dozens of statistics that track similarly. You are what your record says you are. Anything else is just spin with an agenda.

URI will be playing in the NCAA tourney for the 2nd straight season, while UConn will likely have no post season for the 2nd year in a row. I enjoy the big dance a lot more when my team paricipates. Hurley's URI teams play hard, play as a team, and make the tourney. Those are the most important similarities.

At the end of the day it’s about winning.

 

[len0322]

The funny thing is I think our style would have looked like what hurley is doing at uri is doing if ag didn’t go down. Unfortunately, he did go down and the team never put it together. Crappy couple of seasons.