I was curious, just how good is RI & Hurley

[intlzncster]

Also with Tom Moore as Head Coach URI next year with their current returning nucleus plus recruiting class...should put them in the Top 3 in the A10 next year and competing for a bid. So with Hurley those expectations wouldn't change.

If Hurley were to come, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Tom Moore follow, if only because of the history involved.

 

[len0322]

Why would anyone want a candidate like that? He has no head coaching experience once so ever. We've been down that path and it's a huge gamble.

Without HC experience, it's a non starter. The 'mentor' thing is overrated, in all sports.



Sanchez - No HC experience. Not a viable candidate.
Mcgrath - 2 years HC experience. 10–20 (.333) at UNCW. What makes him appealing?

Nate Oats (Buffalo) is someone to look at, though very green. Three years HC with a 60-38 record. Also coached Romulus HS for 11 years with a 222-52 record.

Who is your candidate?

 

[intlzncster]

Who is your candidate?

I don't claim to be any expert. But there are definite bare minimums. So it's pretty easy to eliminate candidates and determine who would be worse than someone like Hurley.

You claimed we can do better. I just wondered who you think is better, or on the same level, and why.

Hurley is vastly superior to any of the guys listed before so he's definitely on the list. He's got a large number of pluses in his column.

I've also heard Becker and Skerry bandied about. Both have some appeal for different reasons. Musselman looks good, but for a variety of reasons, I don't think it would work.

 

[len0322]

The best thing probably for both of us is we don’t have the pressure deciding minimums, if Ollie should go, or who Will be the coach next year will be.

All I want is for this program to be relevant again and be in a position to be playing in early April. I’d also like to see us come out and play Houston tough tomorrow.

 

[Whtdmd]

Tom Crean is miles ahead of Hurley.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Actually watched Buffalo play the other night against Bowling Green. Most impressed with how hard Oats gets the team to play. And they blew out BG impressively.

But I didn’t see much structure on offense or on defense. TBH, the offense looks a lot like ours, but with better and more numerous three point shooters and a solid post player with touch around the hoop.

 

[intlzncster]

Actually watched Buffalo play the other night against Bowling Green. Most impressed with how hard Oats gets the team to play. And they blew out BG impressively.

But I didn’t see much structure on offense or on defense. TBH, the offense looks a lot like ours, but with better and more numerous three point shooters and a solid post player with touch around the hoop.

Problem for me when discussing is I've never really seen any of these guys teams outside of URI (seen 3-4 games). I can only look at records, trends, recruits etc.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Haven’t heard much talk about the buffalo guy, Ron Sanchez or CB McGrath.

Didn't Rick Majerus once say, "I'm not a big buffalo guy"?

 

[Chief00]

Hurley has URI at 23-6 and 44th in the country in scoring margin and 76th in assists per game. URI is 67th in the nation in 3 pt fg defense.

UConn is 14-16 with a losing record for the 2nd straight year and is 293rd in scoring margin and 342nd in assists per game. UConn is 260th in the nation in 3 point fg defense.

I can cite dozens of statistics that track similarly. You are what your record says you are. Anything else is just spin with an agenda.

URI will be playing in the NCAA tourney for the 2nd straight season, while UConn will likely have no post season for the 2nd year in a row. I enjoy the big dance a lot more when my team paricipates. Hurley's URI teams play hard, play as a team, and make the tourney. Those are the most important similarities.

At the end of the day it’s about winning.

 

[len0322]

The funny thing is I think our style would have looked like what hurley is doing at uri is doing if ag didn’t go down. Unfortunately, he did go down and the team never put it together. Crappy couple of seasons.

 

[freescooter]

This is all nonsense. You know what statistics matters at the end of the day? Wins and Losses. There are multiple ways to win. And multiple ways to lose.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This is all nonsense. You know what statistics matters at the end of the day? Wins and Losses. There are multiple ways to win. And multiple ways to lose.

It’s remarkable that nobody bothered to mention offense. Isn’t that where we most need improvement? I suspect that URI’s defense is limited by its personnel. They guy is winning. I want a coach that is flexible and adaptable, and doesn’t insist on playing a certain way even when he doesn’t have the players to do so.

 

[Captbluefin]

The Grass is not always greener!!!

You think any of these name are going to convince our better players or ones with potential to stay here ??? LOL

We need a big upgrade not a slight upgrade or even trade.. I don’t like any of the names.
We will be having same convo in 2-3 years..

 

[intlzncster]

The Grass is not always greener!!!

You think any of these name are going to convince our better players or ones with potential to stay here ??? LOL

We need a big upgrade not a slight upgrade or even trade.. I don’t like any of the names.
We will be having same convo in 2-3 years..

Coach K ain't walking through that door.

The guy who will convince players to stay is not the best name, but the best salesman.

And I'm not so sure an exodus doesn't occur if Ollie stays.

 

[UCDaveD]

And I'm not so sure an exodus doesn't occur if Ollie stays.

By all indications that is exactly what would happen.

 

[kobe]

Hurley is a worse version of Mick Cronin imo

 

[Mots010]

The Grass is not always greener!!!

You think any of these name are going to convince our better players or ones with potential to stay here ??? LOL

We need a big upgrade not a slight upgrade or even trade.. I don’t like any of the names.
We will be having same convo in 2-3 years..

Ollie has lit the grass on fire. Give him some more time and he’ll salt the earth.

 

[Paesano]

Hurley is a worse version of Mick Cronin imo

You are scared to death of him coming to UConn, aren't you?

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Hurley is a worse version of Mick Cronin imo

 

[Storrs South]

Now, since we like to compare the last two seasons, I have to go the speculation route.

Some people continue to bash Ollie and consider him a lessor coach because of more recent results, which begs this question if you really want to have a fair discussion.

What if Hurley's best player unexpectedly declared for the NBA draft before the 16/17 season?
And then, a big recruit gets hurt in August of 2016 and misses the 16/17 season. And then 2 of his three best remaining players go down for the season in November of 2016.
I wonder how good RI would have been last year.

Then his best recruit for 17/18 decommits because the coach who recruited him was fired. And then his mostly higher regarded recruit goes down for the season again, And then his team's second leading scorer fractures his nasal canal while still recovering from his torn ACL and essentially sucks down the stretch.

I wonder how good RI would be. If RI had all those injuries, and CT had none of them, who do you think would look like the better coach?

Again, I'm not bashing Hurley, I'm really not, I just think a little balance goes a long way

Our program has been absolutely devastated by injuries the last two seasons, and other stuff didn't help either. Now I do think the team should have competed more even with the injuries, but let's not pretend they didn't happen and they weren't significant.

If that's some sort of "agenda" of mine, so be it, it's legit.

Ollie lost to Wagner & Northeastern with a completely healthy roster and nearly lost to Loyola Marymount the next game with Alterique only missing the 2nd half. Then proceeded to lose to ECU & Tulsa later that season, should I also mention that a team that had Ryan Boatright, Daniel Hamilton, & Rodney Purvis failed to score 50 points v. Yale and lost? Ollie has not beaten Tulsa since February 2016. Required OT to beat Monmouth & Columbia.

Would Hurley's teams be as good as we have witnessed the last two seasons applying the circumstances highlighted above? No, of course not. Would teams play below their talent level so consistently? I would bet not.

For the 2,014th time, we would not be having this discussion today if Ollie had not lost Wagner/Northeastern/ECU/Tulsa last season, which would have put them at a 20 win season. All 4 games UConn should never lose considering how much more talent was and is on the UConn roster. We would not be having this conversation today if Ollie's team could pick off 1 quality win here and there. UConn has not beaten a ranked opponent since February 2016.

There best win this season is Oregon who will not be dancing this year like UConn that has now missed 3 of the last 4. College basketball is a volatile game in terms of outcomes. Think about all the upsets you see on a week in/week out basis. Now think about how many quality teams UConn played this season. I'll list them out:

• Michigan State
• Arkansas
• Arizona
• Auburn
• Wichita State (x2)
• Villanova
• Cincinnati (x2)

That's all 9 games UConn played against tournament teams and they went 0-9. And even worse, they didn't even compete: average margin of loss was 19.9 points/game. Once Alterique went down, I think we all understood we weren't dancing this year, but Ollie's job was to hold the line, play respectable basketball, beat the less talented teams, and maybe pick off a good opponent here and there, get to the NIT, show team growth. I personally have seen none of these things, not even close.

We were surprised to see UConn beat Temple, #83 KenPom Temple, who will not be dancing. That's how far the program has fallen and that should be alarming. I would like someone at the helm who has a history of fixing messes not creating them.

 

[pj]

Here's basically all the coaching candidates and their rankings according to KenPom at the schools where they built their name or are currently building their resume. Just from looking at this graph, Hurley, Crean, and Musselman are the most impressive in my opinion and I guess Mack too for retaining Xavier as an excellent program (not as much from building something).

Just from that graph, none of the coaches are obviously better than Ollie. It's reasonable to suppose that Ollie's skill is a coach is accurately represented by the average Kenpom rating of his years to date -- you could argue that the first few years benefited from Calhoun's support and players, while the last few were hurt by injuries, I think they balance out -- and we have to assume he has been learning how to coach and his trend will be up from here. And if he stays, having Gilbert, Jalen, Akinjo, Sid Wilson, Matthews, Kisunas added to a further year of growth for the returning players suggests next year Ollie should be back to an NCAA tourney bid.

Danny Hurley's results have been impressive but not more impressive than Ollie's national championship. There are still questions about his ability to recruit at a high level and win in March. Obviously he's a good coach. But can he ever be a national championship winning coach?

Ollie has the potential to be that again. If he rebuilds his reputation for competence and player development, then with his NBA experience and a national championship on his resume, he has a real chance to become the nation's top black coach, and top point guard coach. That would be a difference maker in recruiting for some players. If the FBI actually helps clean the cheating out of the sport, then he might become an elite recruiter.

The big difference in the graph between those coaches is not average results, but that some coaches are on uptrends and Ollie on a downtrend. But all coaches will have ups and downs, so there is a risk that the ups and downs are partly statistical fluctuations and luck. We may be overly focused on Ollie's weaknesses that we've seen on the court, and missing his strengths which shone through in 2014. Maybe with the help of good assistant coaches, the weaknesses can be fixed. Ollie's ceiling may be higher than Hurley's, even as his floor is lower.

 

[pj]

Ollie lost to Wagner & Northeastern with a completely healthy roster and nearly lost to Loyola Marymount the next game with Alterique only missing the 2nd half. Then proceeded to lose to ECU & Tulsa later that season, should I also mention that a team that had Ryan Boatright, Daniel Hamilton, & Rodney Purvis failed to score 50 points v. Yale and lost? Ollie has not beaten Tulsa since February 2016. Required OT to beat Monmouth & Columbia.

Would Hurley's teams be as good as we have witnessed the last two seasons applying the circumstances highlighted above? No, of course not. Would teams play below their talent level so consistently? I would bet not.

For the 2,014th time, we would not be having this discussion today if Ollie had not lost Wagner/Northeastern/ECU/Tulsa last season, which would have put them at a 20 win season. All 4 games UConn should never lose considering how much more talent was and is on the UConn roster. We would not be having this conversation today if Ollie's team could pick off 1 quality win here and there. UConn has not beaten a ranked opponent since February 2016.

There best win this season is Oregon who will not be dancing this year like UConn that has now missed 3 of the last 4. College basketball is a volatile game in terms of outcomes. Think about all the upsets you see on a week in/week out basis. Now think about how many quality teams UConn played this season. I'll list them out:

• Michigan State
• Arkansas
• Arizona
• Auburn
• Wichita State (x2)
• Villanova
• Cincinnati (x2)

That's all 9 games UConn played against tournament teams and they went 0-9. And even worse, they didn't even compete: average margin of loss was 19.9 points/game. Once Alterique went down, I think we all understood we weren't dancing this year, but Ollie's job was to hold the line, play respectable basketball, beat the less talented teams, and maybe pick off a good opponent here and there, get to the NIT, show team growth. I personally have seen none of these things, not even close.

We were surprised to see UConn beat Temple, #83 KenPom Temple, who will not be dancing. That's how far the program has fallen and that should be alarming. I would like someone at the helm who has a history of fixing messes not creating them.

This is the right Ollie critique. We've all seen the inexplicable playing time allocations, the lack of consistency in lineups leading to slow buildup of chemistry, the failure to teach or inspire quality defense or rebounding, and the deficits in roster construction (this year, lack of a point guard, lack of 3 pt shooters, lack of rim protection). There was no excuse for losing the two Tulsa games this season and if he wins those we're 9-8 in league and tied for fourth, not to mention other winnable conference games. There are many signs that he's missing key elements of a good head coach.

The pro-Ollie argument is this. He's kept his kids working (see Temple). He's been able to recruit (Akinjo, Matthews, Kisunas, Wilson is a good class). He's been able to motivate (see 2014). He's been able to improve his staff (I'll count Chill as an improvement). Above all, his deficits as a head coach seem readily fixable, especially if he can improve the quality of his staff -- they seem to reflect a certain lack of intelligence, but being a slow learner doesn't mean he can't learn. If he cares enough and is invested enough and works hard enough, he may be able to improve to become an excellent coach.

Then, we are on the hook for $10 mn in future salary, and if we have to pay similarly to the next coach, we save $10 mn by sticking with Ollie. He might get another year to prove himself, this time with a complete roster. With Gilbert/Akinjo/Adams/Vital/Matthews/Polley/Wilson/Williams/Diarra/Carlton/Whaley/Kisunas and maybe Cobb if he's back, he has a complete roster with some depth, and no excuses for not performing.

 

[the Q]

Ollie lost to Wagner & Northeastern with a completely healthy roster and nearly lost to Loyola Marymount the next game with Alterique only missing the 2nd half. Then proceeded to lose to ECU & Tulsa later that season, should I also mention that a team that had Ryan Boatright, Daniel Hamilton, & Rodney Purvis failed to score 50 points v. Yale and lost? Ollie has not beaten Tulsa since February 2016. Required OT to beat Monmouth & Columbia.

Would Hurley's teams be as good as we have witnessed the last two seasons applying the circumstances highlighted above? No, of course not. Would teams play below their talent level so consistently? I would bet not.

For the 2,014th time, we would not be having this discussion today if Ollie had not lost Wagner/Northeastern/ECU/Tulsa last season, which would have put them at a 20 win season. All 4 games UConn should never lose considering how much more talent was and is on the UConn roster. We would not be having this conversation today if Ollie's team could pick off 1 quality win here and there. UConn has not beaten a ranked opponent since February 2016.

There best win this season is Oregon who will not be dancing this year like UConn that has now missed 3 of the last 4. College basketball is a volatile game in terms of outcomes. Think about all the upsets you see on a week in/week out basis. Now think about how many quality teams UConn played this season. I'll list them out:

• Michigan State
• Arkansas
• Arizona
• Auburn
• Wichita State (x2)
• Villanova
• Cincinnati (x2)

That's all 9 games UConn played against tournament teams and they went 0-9. And even worse, they didn't even compete: average margin of loss was 19.9 points/game. Once Alterique went down, I think we all understood we weren't dancing this year, but Ollie's job was to hold the line, play respectable basketball, beat the less talented teams, and maybe pick off a good opponent here and there, get to the NIT, show team growth. I personally have seen none of these things, not even close.

We were surprised to see UConn beat Temple, #83 KenPom Temple, who will not be dancing. That's how far the program has fallen and that should be alarming. I would like someone at the helm who has a history of fixing messes not creating them.

Some very good points in here, but is your premise that if we make the NIT last year we're still not having this convo?

 

[PAHusky]

RI is a good team, I wish them well, I tend to pull for the underdogs. But I've read a lot of comments about how well coached they are, how great their defense is and about how Hurley teams resemble Calhoun teams. This stuff peaked my interest, so I decided to do a little research.

One of the best things about Calhoun teams over the years is great defense, always national leaders in defensive FG%, so I looked it up at Field-Goal Percentage Defense | DI Men's Basketball Statistics - NCAA.com

Defensive FG %
Rhode Island 45.3%, ranked 254th
Connecticut 43.2%, ranked 135th

So RI's defense does not remotely resemble anything Jim Calhoun ever put on the court (usually under 40%) , and Ollie's defense is considerably better than Hurley's despite playing significantly tougher competition.

While looking at this stat, I thought noting the following might be interesting to some people

1) Mich St
2) Cinci
3) VA
6) Houston
8) Cuse
9) UCF
41) Rutgers, Steve Pikiel appears to be teaching a Calhoun type of defense


Next, rebounding margin

So to be clear here, you created a "Hurley = the new Calhoun" strawman, cherry picked two statistics you personally identified with Calhoun teams, showed us that Hurley is not, in fact, equal to a Hall of Fame level coach coaching a national power in a premier conference, didn't compare Hurley's numbers at all to KO's pathetic showings the last few years. I think KO needs to go but I will say there are times - after the Temple win, thinking about Sid and what he'll add to the team next year, etc - that I personally think he should maybe get another year at the helm. And then I read these threads where you critique a presumptive replacement's stats and realize that these stats are infinitely, infinitely better than the team KO has been putting on the floor with much better resources and supposedly better recruiting and it's pretty obvious again that he needs to go.

For the love of God too Boneyard, can we please stop with the Tom Crean joke? The guy is a laughingstock. He was the original creepy kid kissing Tom

 

[metsfan2323]

Hurley is a worse version of Mick Cronin imo

Sorry, no more gift wrapped Cane Broome's coming your way after this season. UCONN will soon have a coach who believes in having guard depth again.