I was curious, just how good is RI & Hurley

[Caronimo]

As requested, 3pt FG% defense

RI 67th at 32.9

1) Grand Canyon
2) UK
3) Penn
4) S AL
5) SD
6) VA
7) Northeastern
8) Sam Houston
9) Middle TN
10) N KY
11) Green Bay
12) Boise

save for UK and VA, not exactly the type of teams you find at the top of the statistical charts I value most and posted, and URI is not near the top of that stat either

again, FWIW, somebody who thought I was posting "garbage numbers" thought looking at this would be more valuable

Three Pt FG Defense | DI Men's Basketball Statistics - NCAA.com

Who’s the coach at Penn? They seem to be doing okay this year. Boise and Nevada as well. Do we look at those guys or are they too risky?

 

[willie99]

So to be clear here, you created a "Hurley = the new Calhoun" strawman, cherry picked two statistics you personally identified with Calhoun teams, showed us that Hurley is not, in fact, equal to a Hall of Fame level coach coaching a national power in a premier conference, didn't compare Hurley's numbers at all to KO's pathetic showings the last few years. I think KO needs to go but I will say there are times - after the Temple win, thinking about Sid and what he'll add to the team next year, etc - that I personally think he should maybe get another year at the helm. And then I read these threads where you critique a presumptive replacement's stats and realize that these stats are infinitely, infinitely better than the team KO has been putting on the floor with much better resources and supposedly better recruiting and it's pretty obvious again that he needs to go.

For the love of God too Boneyard, can we please stop with the Tom Crean joke? The guy is a laughingstock. He was the original creepy kid kissing Tom

I created nothing, but you just did, oh the irony

Just because you might not have said it doesn't mean other people didn't

 

[champs99and04]

Even Hurley guys (I was one) have to be feeling a little tentative after their last few games. It doesn’t take much to change a narrative and right now they’re steering towards the bubble which would have been considered objectively under-achieving before the year.

The idea that he does more with less is something of a myth. He’s had big time players at Rhody and outside of one tournament title in the A-10 not a ton to show for it. I’m just asking you to be fair because this board would go nuclear if Ollie lost by 30 at home to St. Joes. You can’t take the kid gloves out when Hurley does it. They’ve basically been the Kentucky of that league, this isn’t the coaching job people want to make it.

 

[Storrs South]

Some very good points in here, but is your premise that if we make the NIT last year we're still not having this convo?

My point is if the program was winning games it was supposed to (and I'm accounting for injuries when I say this), not getting consistently embarrassed on National TV, and not playing such poor unimaginative basketball, then yes we would not be having this conversation. I don't think I was nor am asking for much.

 

[the Q]

My point is if the program was winning games it was supposed to (and I'm accounting for injuries when I say this), not getting consistently embarrassed on National TV, and not playing such poor unimaginative basketball, then yes we would not be having this conversation. I don't think I was nor am asking for much.

No it’s quite fair.

We also won in 2014 playing rather unimaginative basketball, minus the change with boat attacking the ballhandler at half court (which in Ollie’s defense was brilliant).

But even if I give you that with Gilbert healthy we make the NiT last year and this year, do you think Ollie’s job is much safer than it is now?

 

[Storrs South]

Just from that graph, none of the coaches are obviously better than Ollie. It's reasonable to suppose that Ollie's skill is a coach is accurately represented by the average Kenpom rating of his years to date -- you could argue that the first few years benefited from Calhoun's support and players, while the last few were hurt by injuries, I think they balance out -- and we have to assume he has been learning how to coach and his trend will be up from here. And if he stays, having Gilbert, Jalen, Akinjo, Sid Wilson, Matthews, Kisunas added to a further year of growth for the returning players suggests next year Ollie should be back to an NCAA tourney bid.

Danny Hurley's results have been impressive but not more impressive than Ollie's national championship. There are still questions about his ability to recruit at a high level and win in March. Obviously he's a good coach. But can he ever be a national championship winning coach?

Ollie has the potential to be that again. If he rebuilds his reputation for competence and player development, then with his NBA experience and a national championship on his resume, he has a real chance to become the nation's top black coach, and top point guard coach. That would be a difference maker in recruiting for some players. If the FBI actually helps clean the cheating out of the sport, then he might become an elite recruiter.

The big difference in the graph between those coaches is not average results, but that some coaches are on uptrends and Ollie on a downtrend. But all coaches will have ups and downs, so there is a risk that the ups and downs are partly statistical fluctuations and luck. We may be overly focused on Ollie's weaknesses that we've seen on the court, and missing his strengths which shone through in 2014. Maybe with the help of good assistant coaches, the weaknesses can be fixed. Ollie's ceiling may be higher than Hurley's, even as his floor is lower.

Here's my interpretation of the graph: you need to be in that time 50 to at least have a shot at dancing. What UConn needs is a coach who can consistently keep the program in the top 50. UConn since 2013 has not been able to do that.

I can't compare Hurley's & Ollie's accomplishments to date because it's apples and oranges. One was given something and beat a couple HOF coaches in the span of 3 weeks, that's about the extent of his accomplishments in 6 years -- 3 weeks of eliteness.

The other has consistently been given nothing and turned it into something. Not once in 6 years has Ollie exemplified he is a program builder (partly due to sanctions, party due to being given something at the outset, and party because he couldn't do anything when he finally had the opportunity), which based on the current talent on the roster and the uphill battle UConn needs to climb to build back the brand, is necessary for the program.

I don't believe we have any evidence that Ollie has more potential of bringing UConn back than Hurley. I have just as many question marks about both but a better track record follows Hurley.

All coaches have ups and downs but your down can't be a house of horrors and you're up can't be just showing up in March. It's a dangerous way to live, especially in a OK to mediocre conference. Even in the best of times with Ollie, regular seasons had some serious warts. When you win the National Title fine who cares, but when you do these things and have a losing season or miss the tourney and this becomes a consistent theme, it's no longer an outlier, it's reality. Even if Ollie's ceiling is higher than Hurley's (which I don't agree with), if the floor is back to back losing seasons, the risk outweighs the benefit.

On Ollie's weakness, they are 100% fixable except they aren't getting fixed. Bad players are still getting significant PT, players are not being used to their strength, and guys are standing around. He already tried the let's switch out the assistant coaches and see if that helps technique and maybe they change things up on the recruiting trail but they certainly haven't developed and strategized much.

Again, in the last 2 years:

• Ollie has pushed out players (Enoch, Durham, Jackson)
• Ollie has pushed out coaches (Hobbs, Miller)
• Ollie has pushed out fans (apparently we're the rats because we don't like back to back losing seasons)

...and things have gotten worse.

Whether you support Ollie or don't, we all want the same thing...to win. The problem with Ollie is I feel like we are going to mental gymnastics to try and prop him up to the coach we thought he was and not currently is. The support Ollie camp is based on wishing & hoping he figures it out and not any evidence that he can fix the very mess he created and I haven't even mentioned up to this point the program is under investigation!

 

[Storrs South]

No it’s quite fair.

We also won in 2014 playing rather unimaginative basketball, minus the change with boat attacking the ballhandler at half court (which in Ollie’s defense was brilliant).

But even if I give you that with Gilbert healthy we make the NiT last year and this year, do you think Ollie’s job is much safer than it is now?

100% -- the trend would still be downward and thus the seat would still be warm but not scorching hot since Gilbert went down again this year. Back to back losing seasons with losses to Wagner, Northeastern, ECU, Tulsa (x3) is a very different animal than going 20-13 with an NIT appearance and then losing Gilbert.

Ollie's hold on the program would be questioned but you would need another year of downward trajectory to move on from an alumnus.

 

[kobe]

Sorry, no more gift wrapped Cane Broome's coming your way after this season. UCONN will soon have a coach who believes in having guard depth again.

what a weird series of responses. i dont care who uconn hires. really means nothing to me. hurley is okay but reminds me too much of cronin (defense/toughness not good offense)

 

[pj]

what a weird series of responses. i dont care who uconn hires. really means nothing to me. hurley is okay but reminds me too much of cronin (defense/toughness not good offense)

That description would also remind many of Jim Calhoun.

Cronin's been good for Cincy, if that's Hurley's floor then he's a very attractive coach.

 

[willie99]

Ollie lost to Wagner & Northeastern with a completely healthy roster and nearly lost to Loyola Marymount the next game with Alterique only missing the 2nd half. Then proceeded to lose to ECU & Tulsa later that season, should I also mention that a team that had Ryan Boatright, Daniel Hamilton, & Rodney Purvis failed to score 50 points v. Yale and lost? Ollie has not beaten Tulsa since February 2016. Required OT to beat Monmouth & Columbia.

Would Hurley's teams be as good as we have witnessed the last two seasons applying the circumstances highlighted above? No, of course not. Would teams play below their talent level so consistently? I would bet not.

For the 2,014th time, we would not be having this discussion today if Ollie had not lost Wagner/Northeastern/ECU/Tulsa last season, which would have put them at a 20 win season. All 4 games UConn should never lose considering how much more talent was and is on the UConn roster. We would not be having this conversation today if Ollie's team could pick off 1 quality win here and there. UConn has not beaten a ranked opponent since February 2016.

There best win this season is Oregon who will not be dancing this year like UConn that has now missed 3 of the last 4. College basketball is a volatile game in terms of outcomes. Think about all the upsets you see on a week in/week out basis. Now think about how many quality teams UConn played this season. I'll list them out:

• Michigan State
• Arkansas
• Arizona
• Auburn
• Wichita State (x2)
• Villanova
• Cincinnati (x2)

That's all 9 games UConn played against tournament teams and they went 0-9. And even worse, they didn't even compete: average margin of loss was 19.9 points/game. Once Alterique went down, I think we all understood we weren't dancing this year, but Ollie's job was to hold the line, play respectable basketball, beat the less talented teams, and maybe pick off a good opponent here and there, get to the NIT, show team growth. I personally have seen none of these things, not even close.

We were surprised to see UConn beat Temple, #83 KenPom Temple, who will not be dancing. That's how far the program has fallen and that should be alarming. I would like someone at the helm who has a history of fixing messes not creating them.

Awesome, now Houston's not even a quality team to the dumpster fire crowd, but Davidson is to the Hurley jockstrap crowd

Ollie only coached three good weeks in his career, that makes sense to some people

12/13 never happened, neither did the conference championship when the season was ended by one seed KU, nope, and a national championship was nothing more than THREE GOOD WEEKS

Ollie ejaculates more hoop knowledge than most posses, he's had real success as a coach without much experience, injuries matter, and we've had two very disappointing seasons by every standard of measurement

I think he gets another year, I haven't heard of even one better long term prospect at this point, That too is very important

 

[Huskybass]

Awesome, now Houston's not even a quality team to the dumpster fire crowd, but Davidson is to the Hurley jockstrap crowd

Ollie only coached three good weeks in his career, that makes sense to some people

12/13 never happened, neither did the conference championship when the season was ended by one seed KU, nope, and a national championship was nothing more than THREE GOOD WEEKS

Ollie ejaculates more hoop knowledge than most posses, he's had real success as a coach without much experience, injuries matter, and we've had two very disappointing seasons by every standard of measurement

I think he gets another year, I haven't heard of even one better long term prospect at this point, That too is very important

I think you are fooling yourself by saying he gets another year. The writing is on the wall. That is if you actually allow yourself to read it.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Awesome, now Houston's not even a quality team to the dumpster fire crowd, but Davidson is to the Hurley jockstrap crowd

Ollie only coached three good weeks in his career, that makes sense to some people

12/13 never happened, neither did the conference championship when the season was ended by one seed KU, nope, and a national championship was nothing more than THREE GOOD WEEKS

Ollie ejaculates more hoop knowledge than most posses, he's had real success as a coach without much experience, injuries matter, and we've had two very disappointing seasons by every standard of measurement

I think he gets another year, I haven't heard of even one better long term prospect at this point, That too is very important

Dear Willie,

I think it was you that years ago posted a link to data that breaks down every team in the country by class. In other words it gave the reader a breakdown by class of each team (ex. # of Sr's, Jr's ect...) It ranked oldest to youngest teams.

The source was not KP.

Can you forward that link? If it wasn't you. My bad.

Thanks
BDH

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

I think you are fooling yourself by saying he gets another year. The writing is on the wall. That is if you actually allow yourself to read it.

Been a great exchange BTW STORRS & WILLIE though. Def 5* postings. Love it.

 

[Paesano]

Awesome, now Houston's not even a quality team to the dumpster fire crowd, but Davidson is to the Hurley jockstrap crowd

Ollie only coached three good weeks in his career, that makes sense to some people

12/13 never happened, neither did the conference championship when the season was ended by one seed KU, nope, and a national championship was nothing more than THREE GOOD WEEKS

Ollie ejaculates more hoop knowledge than most posses, he's had real success as a coach without much experience, injuries matter, and we've had two very disappointing seasons by every standard of measurement

I think he gets another year, I haven't heard of even one better long term prospect at this point, That too is very important

You know why you are unhinged and irrational? Because, deep down, you know he is done. I think you know Hurley is a better option too.

Again, you go back to the injury excuse. Again, I present to you the Wagner and Northeastern games from last year. In those games we had a McD AA as a redshirt SENIOR in Purvis, a 5 star sophomore in Adams, a SENIOR center in Brimah who, as a freshman made a play that was critical to Ollie's championship and subsequent contract extension, a SENIOR PF in Facey who was a high 4* recruit, a healthy McD freshman guard in Gilbert, a healthy redshirt sophomore forward who was a high 4* recruit in Larrier and a top recruiting class. With that LOADED team, he lost to Wagner and Northeastern. If that doesn't scream SYMPTOM to you, you are blind. Even after losing Gilbert and Larrier, we were STILL a loaded and experienced team relative to the rest of the AAC. And, yet, they struggled. The injury excuse for last year is a horrible excuse with no basis in reality.

This year, losing Gilbert hurt more. Why? Because a huge number of current players and recruits RAN AWAY from him. The lack of talent is more on Ollie than it is on losing ONE player to an injury.

So, to summarize, Ollie bombed with a loaded team and then he bombed because too many kids quit on him. I really don't care how many more games you THINK we might have won with Gilbert. We all saw what happened last year with Gilbert against Wagner and Northeastern. We all saw what happened last year with a loaded and experienced team. And we all saw how this team regressed from bad to worse this year even if you only look at games played after Gilbert was injured.

 

[mauconnfan]

You know why you are unhinged and irrational? Because, deep down, you know he is done. I think you know Hurley is a better option too.

Again, you go back to the injury excuse. Again, I present to you the Wagner and Northeastern games from last year. In those games we had a McD AA as a redshirt SENIOR in Purvis, a 5 star sophomore in Adams, a SENIOR center in Brimah who, as a freshman made a play that was critical to Ollie's championship and subsequent contract extension, a SENIOR PF in Facey who was a high 4* recruit, a healthy McD freshman guard in Gilbert, a healthy redshirt sophomore forward who was a high 4* recruit in Larrier and a top recruiting class. With that LOADED team, he lost to Wagner and Northeastern. If that doesn't scream SYMPTOM to you, you are blind. Even after losing Gilbert and Larrier, we were STILL a loaded and experienced team relative to the rest of the AAC. And, yet, they struggled. The injury excuse for last year is a horrible excuse with no basis in reality.

This year, losing Gilbert hurt more. Why? Because a huge number of current players and recruits RAN AWAY from him. The lack of talent is more on Ollie than it is on losing ONE player to an injury.

So, to summarize, Ollie bombed with a loaded team and then he bombed because too many kids quit on him. I really don't care how many more games you THINK we might have won with Gilbert. We all saw what happened last year with Gilbert against Wagner and Northeastern. We all saw what happened last year with a loaded and experienced team. And we all saw how this team regressed from bad to worse this year even if you only look at games played after Gilbert was injured.

Where the hell are you getting "loaded team"? Are you actually serious about a loaded term because they were never close to loaded. What 5 on that team every exuded "loaded" or the bench? I mean I get what you're saying but don't make it sound even worst because he had a loaded team, he hasn't once had a loaded team in his tenure thus far not even NC team so let's stop the ridiculous talk.

 

[Paesano]

Where the hell are you getting "loaded team"? Are you actually serious about a loaded term because they were never close to loaded. What 5 on that team every exuded "loaded" or the bench? I mean I get what you're saying but don't make it sound even worst because he had a loaded team, he hasn't once had a loaded team in his tenure thus far not even NC team so let's stop the ridiculous talk.

Did you not understand "relative to the rest of the AAC" or are you being obtuse? NO WAY should THAT team have done THAT bad in the AAC or against a bunch of other mediocre non-conference teams they played and, in some cases, lost to. I never said they should have been a championship or final four team. That is why I used the word R...E...L..A...T...I...V...E. But, hey, continue your anti-anti-ollie supporters crusade. I don't care what you say or think.

 

[Huskyforlife]

If I read willies posts without context, I would think we’re a bubble team, and that everyone is still calling for Ollie’s Head.

Dude you can make all the excuses you want. You can say Hurley isn’t Calhoun, that he’ll never win a championship here. Fine, have fun with your negativity. All we want at this point, is a fresh start. Hurley has made URI into a top 25 team for the last two seasons, recruited top 100 players into that program, and developed them over time. He built up two northeast programs man. Can’t you see why we want to move on?

 

[willie99]

I think you are fooling yourself by saying he gets another year. The writing is on the wall. That is if you actually allow yourself to read it.

we shall see

 

[BlueMAB]

@Storrs South is killing this thread. Kudos.

 

[Storrs South]

@Storrs South is killing this thread. Kudos.

It's a mixture of sad and easy at this point. Kwintin, Whaley, Cobb, & Carlton lost significant & critical minutes to David Onuroah. Goodbye KO, thank you for 2014.

 

[BlueMAB]

It's a mixture of sad and easy at this point. Kwintin, Whaley, Cobb, & Carlton lost significant & critical minutes to David Onuroah. Goodbye KO, thank you for 2014.

The only reason I can see playing DO is what we can't see. His approach to practice, academics, the weight room, etc. Ollie had to be rewarding him for the work he put in that we couldn't see. There's literally no other reason to keep playing him over Kwintin, Whaley and Carlton. Cobb I can understand because of his suspension. Before the suspension, Cobb was getting DO's minutes (I think).

 

[Storrs South]

The only reason I can see playing DO is what we can't see. His approach to practice, academics, the weight room, etc. Ollie had to be rewarding him for the work he put in that we couldn't see. There's literally no other reason to keep playing him over Kwintin, Whaley and Carlton. Cobb I can understand because of his suspension. Before the suspension, Cobb was getting DO's minutes (I think).

• His time in practice isn't translating to the court
• That B- he got in Rocks for Jocks doesn't help with Wins and Losses
• Bench pressing 225 15 times isn't translating to rebounds (7 rebounds in the last 5 games combined in 65 minutes)

If anything I would do the exact opposite of whatever Onuorah is doing off the court because it isn't working.

Kwintin is still very raw but he will be here next year and does something things well. DO is a huge liability on both ends of the floor. Kwintin is also fun to watch with the occasional dunk.

 

[BlueMAB]

• His time in practice isn't translating to the court
• That B- he got in Rocks for Jocks doesn't help with Wins and Losses
• Bench pressing 225 15 times isn't translating to rebounds (7 rebounds in the last 5 games combined in 65 minutes)

If anything I would do the exact opposite of whatever Onuorah is doing off the court because it isn't working.

Kwintin is still very raw but he will be here next year and does something things well. DO is a huge liability on both ends of the floor. Kwintin is also fun to watch with the occasional dunk.

I'm not arguing that DO should be playing, simply speculating on the possible reason(s). If you have an "attitude" or "culture" problem on a team, one way to help reverse that is rewarding the players who are doing things the right way with playing time.

I have NO IDEA if ANY of that is true. I'm just saying that's the only reason I can see he has for playing DO as much as he does. I'm simply thinking out loud.

 

[Storrs South]

I'm not arguing that DO should be playing, simply speculating on the possible reason(s). If you have an "attitude" or "culture" problem on a team, one way to help reverse that is rewarding the players who are doing things the right way with playing time.

I have NO IDEA if ANY of that is true. I'm just saying that's the only reason I can see he has for playing DO as much as he does. I'm simply thinking out loud.

I hear you and maybe that is why, I'm just saying I almost hope it's none of those reasons.

 

[intlzncster]

• His time in practice isn't translating to the court
• That B- he got in Rocks for Jocks doesn't help with Wins and Losses
• Bench pressing 225 15 times isn't translating to rebounds (7 rebounds in the last 5 games combined in 65 minutes)

If anything I would do the exact opposite of whatever Onuorah is doing off the court because it isn't working.

Kwintin is still very raw but he will be here next year and does something things well. DO is a huge liability on both ends of the floor. Kwintin is also fun to watch with the occasional dunk.

Don't want DO on the court, but this one doesn't even translate on the sarcasm meter. Kid graduated Cornell and probably will get a degree from UCONN as well.