I suggest we throw up 3 pointers and hit the boards!

[oldhusky]

I suspect we have 4 players who might shoot over 40% from 3 — Paige, Azzi, CD, and Lou.

I just re-watched the MAAC championship and whatever else anyone might say about Lou’s game, she is an awesome shooter.

CD’s 3pt shooting was a bit off last year. I suspect the hip injury had something to do with this. If you watch her in those 3pt shooting contests from HS, she’s clearly one of the best in the land. In one she comes in a close second only to Azzi.

I agree. I expect CD to be much better at the 3 this year. In one of those contests she beat Azzi (who was wearing a boot) in the female championship, then defeated the male champion to be the overall winner. In another video at some kind of high school all star event a reporter asked the players who they thought would win the 3 pt contest and several said Caroline so her reputation as a 3 pt shooter was well established.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think this year, once Paige had returned, we were arguably the top defensive team in the nation again. Certainly one of the top 4.

UCONN was never remotely close to being the top ( or even top 4) defense team in the nation during any stretch of last season. It is also not logical that UCONN was playing better defense upon Paige's return to the team.
Even within the Big East UCONN was not a dominat or clear cut #1 defensive team.

2021-2022 Women's Basketball - Overall Statistics - Big East Conference

The official 2021-2022 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for Big East Conference

www.bigeast.com

 

[Bone Dog]

UCONN was never remotely close to being the top ( or even top 4) defense team in the nation during any stretch of last season. It is also not logical that UCONN was playing better defense upon Paige's return to the team.
Even within the Big East UCONN was not a dominat or clear cut #1 defensive team.

2021-2022 Women's Basketball - Overall Statistics - Big East Conference

The official 2021-2022 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for Big East Conference

www.bigeast.com

I may be reading those stats incorrectly, but they appear to confirm my sense of things, namely that at the end of the season UConn was the top defensive team in the BE. It’s hard to know since I’m only referring to the last few games, not the entire season. But I’m also mainly thinking of the NCAA tournament, in which we faced the 3 best teams in the country one after another. Our D against NC St and Stanford was decisively good. Against SC we still played great D, but got beat on the glass. Mostly. When I look at those games, I’m thinking of our energy level on D and how we minimized mistakes we’d been prone to earlier in the year. In the first Creighton game and the first DePaul game, they outhustled us to every loose ball. That was not the case in the final few weeks. And yes, I think it had a lot to do with the return of Paige.

 

[TeamFirst!]

At the beginning of the year I think Paige was playing exceptional defense but at the end she was not the same defensively. I do agree that we were one of the top defenses at the end of the year but maybe not top 4.

 

[Bone Dog]

At the beginning of the year I think Paige was playing exceptional defense but at the end she was not the same defensively. I do agree that we were one of the top defenses at the end of the year but maybe not top 4.

That's fair. Though when I say our D got better when Paige returned, I don't mean she was suddenly playing great D. I mean once her O returned, it allowed the team as a whole to play great D. It's hard to focus on D if you think you can't score easily. In the NC St game, especially in the second half. Paige practically scored at will. The impact on her teammates was palpable at both ends of the court. Similarly, the impact on opponents was demoralizing.

 

[CocoHusky]

I may be reading those stats incorrectly, but they appear to confirm my sense of things, namely that at the end of the season UConn was the top defensive team in the BE. It’s hard to know since I’m only referring to the last few games, not the entire season. But I’m also mainly thinking of the NCAA tournament, in which we faced the 3 best teams in the country one after another. Our D against NC St and Stanford was decisively good. Against SC we still played great D, but got beat on the glass. Mostly. When I look at those games, I’m thinking of our energy level on D and how we minimized mistakes we’d been prone to earlier in the year. In the first Creighton game and the first DePaul game, they outhustled us to every loose ball. That was not the case in the final few weeks. And yes, I think it had a lot to do with the return of Paige.

My Apologies for providing a bad link. UCONN played 17 BE games last season I'm not sure why the tables have not been updated to reflect all the BE games played vs the 5 and 6 games that indicated in the bad link.
This is a better link:
https://bigeastconf_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/sports/w-baskbl/2021-2022/confldrs.htm
I still stand by my prior statement "Even within the Big East UCONN was not a dominat or clear cut #1 defensive team."
Specifically within the BE UCONN was not #1 in Steals, Blocked shots, rebounding Margin, rebounding defense, defensive rebounds or defensive rebound %. It would take a dominat defensive team within the BE or any conference really to contend for a Top 4 defensive spot nationally.
Regarding Paige and her return to the lineup, the team had actually started to play better defense prior to her return to the line up.
Beginning with Marquette on 2/23/22 UCONN held 4 consecutive opponents to 38 or fewer points. Another indication that this defense run had very little to do with Paige's return is that her minutes played in those 4 games were 0, 13, 13 & 18. Yet a third indication is that UCONN held Marquette to 38 points without Paige and gave up 51 to Marquette with Paige playing 18 minutes.

 

[Bone Dog]

Regarding Paige and her return to the lineup, the team had actually started to play better defense prior to her return to the line up.
Beginning with Marquette on 2/23/22 UCONN held 4 consecutive opponents to 38 or fewer points. Another indication that this defense run had very little to do with Paige's return is that her minutes played in those 4 games were 0, 13, 13 & 18. Yet a third indication is that UCONN held Marquette to 38 points without Paige and gave up 51 to Marquette with Paige playing 18 minutes.

I’m glad to see you agree with me that in the last month or so, we started playing great D. This was my main point, not the absurd claim you seemed to want to attribute to me that they played great D all season.

You are right to point out that in my exuberance I credited Paige’s offensive production with this improvement prematurely. It seems to have coincided with the emergence of Azzi’s hitting her stride on offense. But even this supports my broader (though less satisfying) point that in some cases confidence on O supports excellence on D.

Finally, my primary interest in any of this was to suggest that in the later rounds of the NCAA tournament we played awesome D. What happened in the Big East is at best tangentially relevant to this thought. I am however glad to see it confirmed by your observation about what began in that Marquette game.

Why do I care about this very subjective assessment of our late season D? Because it gives me the confidence to think we might return to D-awesomeness in November and carry it through to the NC.

Also, a side note: while stats on steals and blocks are informative, they don’t tell the whole story. Disrupting the opponent’s O can be accomplished even without these. Chasing down loose balls strikes me as more indicative of general defensive awesomeness.

 

[TeamFirst!]

I AGREE with Coco's last post overall. Our defense peaked just before Paige came back in my opinion. I do think at the beginning of the year though a strong case could be made that Paige was our best defender. She led the team in steals 2 seasons ago and was on pace to do it again at the beginning of last year. It's more than steals of course but steals are an important indicator. Paige is great at team defense.

Just before Paige came back I think we might have been top 10 or better but Paige's injury hurt them defensively and with her return she was more of a defensive liability than before.

 

[TeamFirst!]

When a positive team attribute is exceptional it can have compounding effects. For example, if Boston is a great rebounder that can have a positive effect on others like Ssxton and vice versa. Players try to focus on keeping Boston off the boards which frees up Saxton. Both tip the ball up towards the basket keeping the ball active often resulting in multiple putback attempts…etc.

The same is true for 3 point shooters. Are you going to guard Azzi, Paige and Lou at the 3 point line? It has a compounding effect. Last year the other team left Nika open quite often for a reason. They couldn’t stop everyone. Lou should have a lot of scoring opportunities next year.

 

[Cuango]

You keep repeating this mantra that UCONN is a "terrific" 3Pt shooting team-although in fairness you did use the word "potential" in your original post. This is simply not supported by the stats. UCONN shot 33.79 % from behind the arc last season. That was the lowest 3PTFG% for a UCONN team going back a full decade for the stats I've been able to check. That stat puts UCONN at #56 ranked team in the country in 3pt shooting. The former Syracuse WBB coach Quentin Hillsman had a similar philosophy-it didn't matter how many you make just keep putting up threes. I questioned Q's philosophy then and would also question your proposal to have next season's UCONN team start launching more threes. BTW Hillsman should have been fired for malpractice but it was abusive behavior that eventually caught up to him.

View attachment 76214

I don’t think last year’s team stats should be used as as anything but a demonstration of how injuries affect a talented team. While I am no fortune teller, I would bet a lot of money that our 3pt percentage will rise precipitously next season, assuming we are healthy, of course! It is very conceivable that we could have three 38+% 3pt shooters next season possibly 4 if Caroline’s hip was responsible for her poor % last year. Combine that with better rebounding, potentially stronger post play, a more experienced (especially defensively), hungry, and (most important) fully healthy team, and you have imo, a legitimate chance for a return to the glory days. (Not that we have been chopped liver recently) I can’t wait!

 

[Alydar]

Dawn Staley once said something to the effect that she didn't mind so much if her team missed jump shots because they probably were going to get the rebound and maybe a putback. Look at how that worked out for them. Look at our team. 3 potential 40% 3 point jump shooters ( much better than SC ) and if we actually work it, capable of rebounding with just about anyone. I would think Ayanna has a lot of rebounding potential next year and I would ask her to focus on rebounding, defense and put backs. Who else not named the "B" word is an incoming freshman who can rebound better? Maybe South Carolina's Ashlyn Watkins? Is Ayanna capable of 10 rebounds a game? One would think potentially if she gets 30 minutes PT. She is big, strong, fast and aggressive on the boards and she can flat out jump with strong enough hands to hold onto the ball in a crowd. She has the makings of a great rebounding big.

I'm all for Ice getting a lot of PT also as she may be as good as any of our bigs in replicating the passing big we had with Liv with maybe even a better outside shot. I think we are going to be fine in all areas next year. Looking at it from a basic analytics perspective, I think we can maximize our offensive potential as a ball moving 3 point shooting team which also has a strong rebounding component. I'm not saying be a 3 point shooting team entirely but it would be my primary focus along with fielding a strong rebounding component.

Players like Patterson (long & quick) make good offensive rebounders. Griffin and Williams before her demonstrated that quickness to the ball more than made up for being several inches shorter.
Brady has faced most of the top posts in SCal and appears to be skilled. How skilled is the question. Geno sees her at the high post where her shooting will force defenses to come out from the paint. (Hopefully) I'll be happy if she can box out, a lost art at Storrs.

 

[Alydar]

You keep repeating this mantra that UCONN is a "terrific" 3Pt shooting team-although in fairness you did use the word "potential" in your original post. This is simply not supported by the stats. UCONN shot 33.79 % from behind the arc last season. That was the lowest 3PTFG% for a UCONN team going back a full decade for the stats I've been able to check. That stat puts UCONN at #56 ranked team in the country in 3pt shooting. The former Syracuse WBB coach Quentin Hillsman had a similar philosophy-it didn't matter how many you make just keep putting up threes. I questioned Q's philosophy then and would also question your proposal to have next season's UCONN team start launching more threes. BTW Hillsman should have been fired for malpractice but it was abusive behavior that eventually caught up to him.

View attachment 76214

As someone else said .... who cares what other teams do? And furthermore, given the circumstances, who cares enough about last year's stats to consider them relevant? You.

 

[CocoHusky]

As someone else said .... who cares what other teams do? And furthermore, given the circumstances, who cares enough about last year's stats to consider them relevant? You.

I do because we are talking about returning players being penciled into a level of performance they have NEVER achieved or managed to sustain over an entire season ( Paige being the only exception) . We have been reluctantly dragged down this road too many times before.

The first time was two times I was told CW had finally turned a corned and would return a more consistent player.
The second time was after Anna Makurat overcame her fear of starting & some among us believed she would return for her Sophomore campaign a 40%+ 3PT shooter.
The third time was the continued selective parsing of Nika Muhl shooting/scoring to justify more playing time and not to recruit players that would interfere with her minutes.
The fourth time is concerning Caroline who just had hip surgery. That is now knee, shoulder and hip surgeries for Caroline just in case anyone is keep ing track.

 

[jchusky]

I do because we are talking about returning players being penciled into a level of performance they have NEVER achieved or managed to sustain over an entire season ( Paige being the only exception) . We have been reluctantly dragged down this road too many times before.

The first time was two times I was told CW had finally turned a corned and would return a more consistent player.
The second time was after Anna Makurat overcame her fear of starting & some among us believed she would return for her Sophomore campaign a 40%+ 3PT shooter.
The third time was the continued selective parsing of Nika Muhl shooting/scoring to justify more playing time and not to recruit players that would interfere with her minutes.
The fourth time is concerning Caroline who just had hip surgery. That is now knee, shoulder and hip surgeries for Caroline just in case anyone is keep ing track.

my biggest peeve was when ppl would bring up a 3 pt shooting contest in where Caroline beat Fudd. That's great if there were no defenders during the game, but we are seeing the top teams are shutting down the 3 pt game. I looked at that Stanford game and Fudd went 0-3. Paige 0-1, Ducharme only played few but did not attempt a 3. The best player from 3 was Westbrook who had been cold as ice before that game, maybe Stanford knew that and were daring if she would continue to be cold but she made the shots. Against SC, 4-16 from 3.

 

[TeamFirst!]

With the exception of Lou, I cited their college career numbers. It doesn't take a genius to know that their college career numbers are the best data set for this. For Lou, I just used her last 3 years in a row which is an even bigger sample size than any of the other players. 3 point shooting can obviously fluctuate for any player but a larger data set is a better indicator than a smaller one and a more recent data set is generally better than one 4 years old. For Lou, she was a consistent 40% type 3 point shooter the last 3 years in a row and a primary scorer on her team. Paige shot 46.4% from 3 her entire first year when she was healthy. Again, no one is saying pass up layups or open 2 point shots. No one is saying give up Geno's offensive schemes that he has used for many years. I'm just saying we should maximize the strengths of this team.

Paige's 46.4% from 3 her freshman year is better than Steph Curry EVER shot in any year in the NBA. Should the Golden State Warriors shoot a lot of 3 pointers? Most analysts would say yes. Azzi gives every indication of being a shooter of a similar level to Paige if not better. Lou has a 3 year track record of outstanding 3 point shooting. A lot of All American players shoot around 45% overall, including layups. For players to shoot over 40% is not that unusual now but they are a huge contributor to an offense and we have 3 of them and maybe potentially 4. Every indication is that it should be a big part of this team's offense next year. If you sincerely look at the numbers objectively, it is obvious.

What I like about it the most is that every player on the floor knows when a top shooter is putting up a 3 point shot. If they are open they are generally putting up the shot. We should use that to crash the boards, block out...etc. Knowing when the shot is going up is a strategic advantage also. Having 3 players who can all bury the 3 consistently is very hard to stop. If the opposing players are guarding everyone at the 3 point line, the middle should be open for movement and back door plays. It is a game changer and can potentially put us in a position to beat any team over a 2 game sample size like the final 4. No matter how good the other team is, it is very difficult to lose when you shoot over 40% from 3 and have good defense. We don't have to have the best big in the country. We maximize our advantages and minimize our weaaknesses.

 

[CocoHusky]

With the exception of Lou, I cited their college career numbers. It doesn't take a genius to know that their college career numbers are the best data set for this. For Lou, I just used her last 3 years in a row which is an even bigger sample size than any of the other players. 3 point shooting can obviously fluctuate for any player but a larger data set is a better indicator than a smaller one and a more recent data set is generally better than one 4 years old. For Lou, she was a consistent 40% type 3 point shooter the last 3 years in a row and a primary scorer on her team. Paige shot 46.4% from 3 her entire first year when she was healthy. Again, no one is saying pass up layups or open 2 point shots. No one is saying give up Geno's offensive schemes that he has used for many years. I'm just saying we should maximize the strengths of this team.

Paige's 46.4% from 3 her freshman year is better than Steph Curry EVER shot in any year in the NBA. Should the Golden State Warriors shoot a lot of 3 pointers? Most analysts would say yes. Azzi gives every indication of being a shooter of a similar level to Paige if not better. Lou has a 3 year track record of outstanding 3 point shooting. A lot of All American players shoot around 45% overall, including layups. For players to shoot over 40% is not that unusual now but they are a huge contributor to an offense and we have 3 of them and maybe potentially 4. Every indication is that it should be a big part of this team's offense next year. If you sincerely look at the numbers objectively, it is obvious.

What I like about it the most is that every player on the floor knows when a top shooter is putting up a 3 point shot. If they are open they are generally putting up the shot. We should use that to crash the boards, block out...etc. Knowing when the shot is going up is a strategic advantage also. Having 3 players who can all bury the 3 consistently is very hard to stop. If the opposing players are guarding everyone at the 3 point line, the middle should be open for movement and back door plays. It is a game changer and can potentially put us in a position to beat any team over a 2 game sample size like the final 4. No matter how good the other team is, it is very difficult to lose when you shoot over 40% from 3 and have good defense. We don't have to have the best big in the country. We maximize our advantages and minimize our weaaknesses.

Lou^2 played at Fairfield I would be pleasantly surprised if she can put up close to the same shooting numbers playing at UCONN. If Lou ^2 were to manage shooting 45% you mentioned she will have achieved her career high shooting % while playing for UCONN. I hope this happens but for now color me skeptical.

Larger data sets are abetter indication so why not apply that to your Paige /Curry comparison? A regular NBA season is 82 games + playoffs. Paige played in 29 games as Freshman and 17 games last season which is roughly 1/2 of an NBA season. It is also fair to point out that Paige's 3 Point shooting began to dip significant from her freshman peak numbers prior to the injury.

Even with the addition of Lou 3 Pt shooting is not the major strength/advantage you are envisioning. BTW UCONN's most recent FF loss (Arizona) was a game in which UCONN shot over 40% (5 of 12) and still lost.

 

[TeamFirst!]

I could cite 100% 3 point shooting statistics and coco would feel compelled to find fault with it. I think the data is very clear. Make your own conclusions.

 

[CocoHusky]

I could cite 100% 3 point shooting statistics and coco would feel compelled to find fault with it. I think the data is very clear. Make your own conclusions.

 

[Bone Dog]

@CocoHusky, I share your concerns. But I am an inveterate optimist. I also suspect Lou will not be able to put up the same numbers at UConn as she did in the MAAC.

And I’m equally concerned about Paige’s shooting last season. In the Arkansas game, she was reluctant to shoot in the first quarter and UConn looked ragged. Geno must have said something special in the break because she scored 30 in the next three quarters, mainly those deadly spot-up jumpers from midrange. In effect she took the team on her shoulders, again. This is what she did in the OTs against NC St.

I remember thinking the team had fallen into the same old habit of watching Paige do it all and figured they’d lose to Stanford in the FF. But they didn’t, and they played tough D and disrupted Stanford’s shooting just enough to steal a win. Sadly, this was not going to suffice against SC.

As great as Paige can be from 3, I suspect her midrange game is actually more devastating to opponents. I expect to see more of it next season.

We clearly need a balanced effort from everyone next season. Paige, as tremendous as she can be, will not be enough. Right now, all we can do is imagine the best the rest of the team can do, and tremble at the worst that might happen. For now, I don’t mind imagining the best. I got enough of the worst last season.

 

[TCC Kid]

That comment by Geno was in reference to UConn’s ugly win at Providence.

Geno said a few times: Recruiting great made good coaches look great.

 

[Alydar]

I do because we are talking about returning players being penciled into a level of performance they have NEVER achieved or managed to sustain over an entire season ( Paige being the only exception) . We have been reluctantly dragged down this road too many times before.

The first time was two times I was told CW had finally turned a corned and would return a more consistent player.
The second time was after Anna Makurat overcame her fear of starting & some among us believed she would return for her Sophomore campaign a 40%+ 3PT shooter.
The third time was the continued selective parsing of Nika Muhl shooting/scoring to justify more playing time and not to recruit players that would interfere with her minutes.
The fourth time is concerning Caroline who just had hip surgery. That is now knee, shoulder and hip surgeries for Caroline just in case anyone is keep ing track.

You really should have wiped off some of those "examples", they obviously come from the bottom of the barrel.

 

[TCC Kid]

@CocoHusky, I share your concerns. But I am an inveterate optimist. I also suspect Lou will not be able to put up the same numbers at UConn as she did in the MAAC.

And I’m equally concerned about Paige’s shooting last season. In the Arkansas game, she was reluctant to shoot in the first quarter and UConn looked ragged. Geno must have said something special in the break because she scored 30 in the next three quarters, mainly those deadly spot-up jumpers from midrange. In effect she took the team on her shoulders, again. This is what she did in the OTs against NC St.

I remember thinking the team had fallen into the same old habit of watching Paige do it all and figured they’d lose to Stanford in the FF. But they didn’t, and they played tough D and disrupted Stanford’s shooting just enough to steal a win. Sadly, this was not going to suffice against SC.

As great as Paige can be from 3, I suspect her midrange game is actually more devastating to opponents. I expect to see more of it next season.

We clearly need a balanced effort from everyone next season. Paige, as tremendous as she can be, will not be enough. Right now, all we can do is imagine the best the rest of the team can do, and tremble at the worst that might happen. For now, I don’t mind imagining the best. I got enough of the worst last season.

Tony C, is the Boneyard optimist. You being second, I'll have to drag along on the tail. But, I don't hold your concern for next season. It has been a while since Uconn has had the excellent shooters in the number this team has. Geno has had excellent production and wins with 4 or 5 good shooting guards, that is not MY favorite option. I too like BALANCE in all aspects of the game. That is one of my many reasons to have at least 3 "big posts" all capable of starting. A weakness and a focus for opponents is getting very good post in foul trouble. We've seen that this year in tight games opponents went after ONO and Edwards trying to weaken their effect on the game by putting them in foul trouble. You don't have to "imagine" the best because--please take attendance of those about to play--if I were every other team not name SC, I'd worry about next season. If Geno picks up 2 really ready posts by then, I'd worry if I were SC.

 

[TCC Kid]

that's Dawn's strategy because her three point shooters weren't all that good but her offensive rebounders were terrific........how about simply running your offense in order to get the best shot possible........... that seems to have worked pretty well.......

There obviously, are benefits to seeking the best shot available. At least until time runs out. I'm not the biggest fan of run and gun but when you have 4 of the better (best?) shooters around I'd say let it fly when in range. A quick score is often the easiest. Geno, way back when, and to an extent still uses that --beat em down the court and score approach. Sometime the dribble dribble, pass pass pass, eats up clock better used trying to score.

 

[TCC Kid]

I believe you and I have dialogue about this several times. With the simultaneous graduation of Kia Nurse and Gabby Williams UCONN essential lost the ability to effectively press and dictate "defensive" tempo without sacrificing offensive efficiency. Let me be specific in my criticism of Mikayla Coombs, Aubrey Griffin and Nika Muhl. All three provided sufficient athleticism required to be a defensive game changing forces. None of the three provided enough offensive consistency or productivity to justify additional usage in that defensive role that was so desperately needed. Better health for Aubrey and Nika would certainly have helped as would a deeper rotation. My criticism is also going to extend to Christyn, Paige and Azzi. Although they are tremendously gifted offensive players (#1 in HS class deservedly) defensive improvement might ultimately have more to do with their success at UCONN. Azzi particularly has got a long long way to grow defensively.

I agree with Gabby and Nurse being both offensive and defensive assets. I will only agree in terms of potential with Coombs and Aubrey, we didn't see enough of them for long periods to assess. Nika, is more of a disruptor than a defensive threat, in my view of her. In terms of scoring: No Nika isn't Caroline (she over 6 ft), or Paige, or Edwards nor is she, at times, as talented in scoring. However, when well, most teams that allowed her to shoot when she choose--paid for that. Not all player assets show in the the stats, except in the W column. Nika is one of them. She motivates, she emboldens her team with her intensity, he drive, and the way other teams negatively respond when she is on the floor. No one on this team even Aubrey come close to Gabby. Nurse, is one of a kind.

 

[Bone Dog]

... Nika is one of them. She motivates, she emboldens her team with her intensity, he drive, and the way other teams negatively respond when she is on the floor.

Nika is an interesting case in that she has significant liabilities, notably in scoring, but is also an asset at times of immense value. That said, I'm not sure the team is best served by having her on the floor for more than ~15 mins/game. There are certain moments when the peculiar mayhem she brings can change a game, especially the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter. The recent game against Tennessee really shows what she can do at such moments. But the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter is rarely a good moment for her.