I enjoy Mike Aresco

[champs99and04]

Likewise, the haves will push to pay they player a higher salary than the havenots can afford. It's a slippery slope that will be the death of college athletics, in my opinion.

This has always been the case. Skipping the middleman and putting the money directly in the hands of the players will only make the process more transparent.

Poorer schools win when the bigger ones screw up. No matter the model, that will be true. I actually think waiving the one year transfer rule would have a greater effect on competitive balance, because coaches could simply turn smaller programs into their own farm systems. So long as you have their loyalties once they're on campus, college sports will continue to mirror anything else in America - a lot of inequality, yet still enough variance at any given time to produce outliers.

Their fixed 'salaries' would likely be pretty inconsequential to accommodate Title IX and the like. Anything they make beyond that is where the real appetite for change lies - if you can negotiate their market value in plain daylight, it becomes harder for sneaker companies to exploit HS kids by synching their brands to schools. It forces companies to react and invest in places that have been buried by the current model, which might actually lead to a more equitable concentration of talent.

 

[CL82]

Kemba Walker: I graduated in three years and have read one book in my life

Cl82: I won’t support this if they aren’t going to class

Lol.

Whaler: "Golly I guess I don't have a point. Let me make something up that I feel more comfortable attacking."

Really Whaler? Taking shots at Kemba is the best you got?

 

[Palatine]

This has always been the case. Skipping the middleman and putting the money directly in the hands of the players will only make the process more transparent.

Poorer schools win when the bigger ones screw up. No matter the model, that will be true. I actually think waiving the one year transfer rule would have a greater effect on competitive balance, because coaches could simply turn smaller programs into their own farm systems. So long as you have their loyalties once they're on campus, college sports will continue to mirror anything else in America - a lot of inequality, yet still enough variance at any given time to produce outliers.

Their fixed 'salaries' would likely be pretty inconsequential to accommodate Title IX and the like. Anything they make beyond that is where the real appetite for change lies - if you can negotiate their market value in plain daylight, it becomes harder for sneaker companies to exploit HS kids by synching their brands to schools. It forces companies to react and invest in places that have been buried by the current model, which might actually lead to a more equitable concentration of talent.

I am against anything that gives MORE advantage to Alabama.

 

[noeynox]

View attachment 34520
Lol.

Whaler: "Golly I guess I don't have a point. Let me make something up that I feel more comfortable attacking."

Really Whaler? Taking shots at Kemba is the best you got?

I get what you're saying but I think you're being willfully ignorant to the point Whaler is making. Dexter Manley got through college and could not sign his own name to his 1st nfl contract. That kind of stuff still happens today, though maybe they're more subtle about it now. Schools exploit kids like that, and the end result is a conference commissioner can get a 20 million dollar bonus. That is an obscene amount of money to pay one man that promotes "amateurism", and is on record about it being the end of college athletics if it means some of that money goes to the people producing it.

 

[CL82]

I get what you're saying but I think you're being willfully ignorant to the point Whaler is making. Dexter Manley got through college and could not sign his own name to his 1st nfl contract. That kind of stuff still happens today, though maybe they're more subtle about it now. Schools exploit kids like that, and the end result is a conference commissioner can get a 20 million dollar bonus. That is an obscene amount of money to pay one man that promotes "amateurism", and is on record about it being the end of college athletics if it means some of that money goes to the people producing it.

Nah, his argument is, at best, tangential to original point which was me talking about my preference for amateur college sports. That's inherently personal. It's fine if anyone else's preference is different.

I don't tune in on Saturday to watch the AD. I watch the kids play. Their amateurism is a part of what makes the narrative compelling to me, otherwise I'd watch pros play at higher level. The fact that others in the university are paid is entirely irrelevant to that.
It's a different discussion, but if you want I can talk about that.

The kids are getting their education, room and board paid for four (or more) years. That's a pretty significant nut these days. For kids who will go on to play professionally, they're getting world class coaching and training. For kids who won't they are getting a degree that makes them more marketable. That's the trade off, the quid pro quo that they get in exchange for playing a sport (which they likely love) for the university. Not a bad deal, IMO.

I'll respectfully suggest that the argument that someone in a supervisory position is paid more than people in a junior position is sophistry. You see it sometimes in business or publicly held corporations. Yeah you need both the mail room guys and board room guys to function but the market decides their respective salaries. So saying well a conference commissioner got a $20M bonus (who got that?) that should have been divided amongst the players misses the boat in capitalistic society.

(Ironically enough, exactly the same thing happens in Communist systems. "Some animals are more equal than others.")

 

[junglehusky]

So you don’t care how much the payment is - you just care they pretend to go to class. To anyone who wants to deal with reality that is a bizarre place to draw the line. The strawman you’ve built is eligible for immediate enshrinement in the Boneyard Strawman Hall of Fame.

I honestly don’t care. I’d prefer the players get more of the money than the worthless administrators and useless athletic departments and Mike Arescos but as long as the games are entertaining I’ll watch.

It’s actually sort of entertaining watching people try and defend the status quo because it’s so ridiculous. Free tats gets you suspended in a national scandal while the ‘finest’ Universities in the country siphon off tens of millions of dollars their brands create to Jim Delany because the media pretends he is special.

Posters here will go to the wall defending Mike Aresco - there has to be an ICD-10 code for that disease.

ICD 10, or DSM 5?

 

[whaler11]

View attachment 34520
Lol.

Whaler: "Golly I guess I don't have a point. Let me make something up that I feel more comfortable attacking."

Really Whaler? Taking shots at Kemba is the best you got?

I tried to use someone you may have heard of since you seem extremely ignorant about college athletics.

It’s not a shot at him, he went to college to play basketball not read books. You are the one claiming to care about academics - not me.

 

[whaler11]

Nah, his argument is, at best, tangential to original point which was me talking about my preference for amateur college sports. That's inherently personal. It's fine if anyone else's preference is different.

I don't tune in on Saturday to watch the AD. I watch the kids play. Their amateurism is a part of what makes the narrative compelling to me, otherwise I'd watch pros play at higher level. The fact that others in the university are paid is entirely irrelevant to that.
It's a different discussion, but if you want I can talk about that.

The kids are getting their education, room and board paid for four (or more) years. That's a pretty significant nut these days. For kids who will go on to play professionally, they're getting world class coaching and training. For kids who won't they are getting a degree that makes them more marketable. That's the trade off, the quid pro quo that they get in exchange for playing a sport (which they likely love) for the university. Not a bad deal, IMO.

I'll respectfully suggest that the argument that someone in a supervisory position is paid more than people in a junior position is sophistry. You see it sometimes in business or publicly held corporations. Yeah you need both the mail room guys and board room guys to function but the market decides their respective salaries. So saying well a conference commissioner got a $20M bonus (who got that?) that should have been divided amongst the players misses the boat in capitalistic society.

(Ironically enough, exactly the same thing happens in Communist systems. "Some animals are more equal than others.")

In order to enjoy college sports you have built an imaginary fantasyland in your head that is completely detached from reality.

That’s fine - lot’s of people do things like that all tbe time. People ignore the actions of say Mel Gibson because they like his movies. Some people pretend that CTE is a myth so they can watch guilt free on Saturday and Sunday.

You think it makes sense to siphon off tens of millions of dollars from taxpayer funded universities to people like Jim Delany because it lets you pretend they are ‘amateur’.

Stop trying to pass off your twisted logic as reality though - it makes you seem insane.

 

[CL82]

I tried to use someone you may have heard of since you seem extremely ignorant about college athletics.

It’s not a shot at him, he went to college to play basketball not read books. You are the one claiming to care about academics - not me.

I know, so long at the betting line is good, what else matters right?

In order to enjoy college sports you have built an imaginary fantasyland in your head that is completely detached from reality.

That’s fine - lot’s of people do things like that all tbe time. People ignore the actions of say Mel Gibson because they like his movies. Some people pretend that CTE is a myth so they can watch guilt free on Saturday and Sunday.

You think it makes sense to siphon off tens of millions of dollars from taxpayer funded universities to people like Jim Delany because it lets you pretend they are ‘amateur’. [haha another strawman argument you can't help yourself can you?]

Stop trying to pass off your twisted logic as reality though - it makes you seem insane.

Lol, you seem angry. Is it because I pointed out that you didn't understand what a strawman argument is, even though you make them continuously? I wouldn't let it bother you. Hopefully you understand now. Just try to use the phrase correctly in the future, or maybe it's for the best that you just avoid it, if it is confusing to you.

 

[Pudge]

Nah, his argument is, at best, tangential to original point which was me talking about my preference for amateur college sports. That's inherently personal. It's fine if anyone else's preference is different.

I don't tune in on Saturday to watch the AD. I watch the kids play. Their amateurism is a part of what makes the narrative compelling to me, otherwise I'd watch pros play at higher level. The fact that others in the university are paid is entirely irrelevant to that.
It's a different discussion, but if you want I can talk about that.

The kids are getting their education, room and board paid for four (or more) years. That's a pretty significant nut these days. For kids who will go on to play professionally, they're getting world class coaching and training. For kids who won't they are getting a degree that makes them more marketable. That's the trade off, the quid pro quo that they get in exchange for playing a sport (which they likely love) for the university. Not a bad deal, IMO.

I'll respectfully suggest that the argument that someone in a supervisory position is paid more than people in a junior position is sophistry. You see it sometimes in business or publicly held corporations. Yeah you need both the mail room guys and board room guys to function but the market decides their respective salaries. So saying well a conference commissioner got a $20M bonus (who got that?) that should have been divided amongst the players misses the boat in capitalistic society.

(Ironically enough, exactly the same thing happens in Communist systems. "Some animals are more equal than others.")

I agree.

And part of the Energy of being a College Football Fan is watching a young man develop from age 18 to 22, in basketball or football, and rooting for them. And not caring that "he feeds his family/he is making a living" aspect. They play for the joy of the game and to get better. Exploit their God-given athleticism on a big stage. That is different than Pro sports.

 

[CL82]

I agree.

And part of the Energy of being a College Football Fan is watching a young man develop from age 18 to 22, in basketball or football, and rooting for them. And not caring that "he feeds his family/he is making a living" aspect. They play for the joy of the game and to get better. Exploit their God-given athleticism on a big stage. That is different than Pro sports.

Oh I love that part as well. Seeing a kid develop to the point that he gets a pro offer and watching what he does in the league is all good stuff.

 

[whaler11]

I know, so long at the betting line is good, what else matters right?


Lol, you seem angry. Is it because I pointed out that you didn't understand what a strawman argument is, even though you make them continuously? I wouldn't let it bother you. Hopefully you understand now. Just try to use the phrase correctly in the future, or maybe it for the best that you just avoid it, if it confusing to you.

Pointing out your crazy talk is always enjoyable not sure why you’d ever assume it makes me angry.

If your point about the lines is I’m not a hypocritical loon because I accept the reality of what I’m watching it’s not exactly a scathing rebuke.

 

[Pudge]

There's the kind of guy that can't accept that we get to say: I like "Vanilla" not "Chocolate" ice cream; or I like "Pistachio" not "Oreo Cookie".

There really is not anything more than highly individualized taste. And Marketing/Markets is made up of personal preferences of 1000000s of individuals.

 

[whaler11]

There's the kind of guy that can't accept that we get to say: I like "Vanilla" not "Chocolate" ice cream; or I like "Pistachio" not "Oreo Cookie".

There really is not anything more than highly individualized taste. And Marketing/Markets is made up of personal preferences of 1000000s of individuals.

I said you are welcome to believe whatever you want about ten times?

If you think the majority of kids playing major college football and basketball are participating in classes like a non student athlete you are detached from reality.

I don’t know why you need to lie to yourself in order to enjoy the games but knock yourself out.

 

[Fishy]

Anyone here who thinks they know what football or basketball players do academically on campus is talking out of their ass.

 

[noeynox]

Nah, his argument is, at best, tangential to original point which was me talking about my preference for amateur college sports. That's inherently personal. It's fine if anyone else's preference is different.

I don't tune in on Saturday to watch the AD. I watch the kids play. Their amateurism is a part of what makes the narrative compelling to me, otherwise I'd watch pros play at higher level. The fact that others in the university are paid is entirely irrelevant to that.
It's a different discussion, but if you want I can talk about that.

The kids are getting their education, room and board paid for four (or more) years. That's a pretty significant nut these days. For kids who will go on to play professionally, they're getting world class coaching and training. For kids who won't they are getting a degree that makes them more marketable. That's the trade off, the quid pro quo that they get in exchange for playing a sport (which they likely love) for the university. Not a bad deal, IMO.

I'll respectfully suggest that the argument that someone in a supervisory position is paid more than people in a junior position is sophistry. You see it sometimes in business or publicly held corporations. Yeah you need both the mail room guys and board room guys to function but the market decides their respective salaries. So saying well a conference commissioner got a $20M bonus (who got that?) that should have been divided amongst the players misses the boat in capitalistic society.

(Ironically enough, exactly the same thing happens in Communist systems. "Some animals are more equal than others.")

It's only sophistry if you accept that your stance is Delaney's à argument for not paying the players, all the while he enriches himself. If that is your line for not watching that is fine, frankly I was more insulted that Uconn was one of 3 schools jettisoned from the BCS power structure. That really is special.

 

[champs99and04]

I agree.

And part of the Energy of being a College Football Fan is watching a young man develop from age 18 to 22, in basketball or football, and rooting for them. And not caring that "he feeds his family/he is making a living" aspect. They play for the joy of the game and to get better. Exploit their God-given athleticism on a big stage. That is different than Pro sports.

Except, the original intent of college sports was never to make money. Once that started happening, the premise became null. You can't expect goodwill from one end and not the other. If the school truly cared about amateurism, the money would be invested back into the schools - some of it is - rather than pocketed. A lot of the fundamental problems we're facing as a country right now stem from the fact that state institutions operate as businesses. Player compensation then gets billed as a war on capitalism when in reality the war on capitalism was everything that got us here.

What's lost in the discussion is that most players already receive far more than their market value by virtue of their scholarship. Nobody would have noticed if you had swapped a regular student for the 13th scholarship guy on Calhoun's bench. That's why scholarship reductions are so convenient for the NCAA and the school - the cash that is freed up by that vacancy doesn't just evaporate, it becomes found money for a different cause while in most cases not impacting the bottom line (and when it does, you can always remove a scholarship from someone else to make room for Andre Drummond).

College athletes will never be truly independent agents and nor should they be. The relationship should be mutually beneficial, as it once was, where the school invests in their student athletes, not to make money, but to invigorate the campus with healthy, multi talented young minds in the hopes that it would pay dividends over the long haul. The earliest vision of amateurism has become so distorted that people now think that by returning to it we're destroying it. It was always supposed to be a charitable venture on the part of the school and it has become the complete opposite, yet somehow it has become accepted as pure by fans who are also being exploited.

 

[whaler11]

Anyone here who thinks they know what football or basketball players do academically on campus is talking out of their ass.

Yes, because some of us haven’t been around teams and have first hand experience on the topic.

It’s almost like not everyone is Chief who vomits every last piece of information that he is privy to.

 

[CL82]

Pointing out your crazy talk is always enjoyable not sure why you’d ever assume it makes me angry.

If your point about the lines is I’m not a hypocritical loon because I accept the reality of what I’m watching it’s not exactly a scathing rebuke.

That post is great example of why I'd thinks so. You make irrational statements and name call. Pretty typical 'tells' for an angry person.

 

[CL82]

It's only sophistry if you accept that your stance is Delaney's à argument for not paying the players, all the while he enriches himself. If that is your line for not watching that is fine, frankly I was more insulted that Uconn was one of 3 schools jettisoned from the BCS power structure. That really is special.

I guess, but Delany doesn't collect the gate receipts and pay himself right? He was hired by the conference presidents who could fire him at anytime, correct? I guess that means that they must think they are getting value for what he's paid.

Agree regarding UConn being on the outside looking in in the P5. We'll see what happens after the current conference contracts expire.

 

[Fishy]

Yes, because some of us haven’t been around teams and have first hand experience on the topic.

It’s almost like not everyone is Chief who vomits every last piece of information that he is privy to.

Everyone step back.

We have an expert here.

 

[whaler11]

Everyone step back.

We have an expert here.

Usually you come up with something better than this... C-