I don't get this UConn entitlement ...

[Pudge]

Zoo Cougar - YOU have no idea.

The fundamental question is WHY are we in a National conference.

Pro-Memphis & UNLV people? Who the hell are they? What we have invested ... if you look sideways, you would also see a HUGE investment by Louisville; Cincinnati; USF; Rutgers. Many of us have gone to road games & see the evidence. UNLV, in many articles you can google, is talking about a MASSIVE Sports complex focused on Football. (college football ... but they will be able to do conventions etc etc) A $1b venture. With the Developer that did Staples Center in downtown LA. How does that make sense? I can tell you that it is a rising trend on college campuses ... because I have been around this for a half-dozen years. That is Investment. I really don't understand UNLV. And, Fresno? Putrid farm city - Right whaler? But, you watch: I know that Fan Base from my UCLA days.

Investment in Football to get to the table. If that is what you are speaking to, then I suggest that there are 20 schools outside the 4 NOW Dominant comferences that are gearing up. Marinatto didn't select UCF, Houston, SMU, Boise etc in a closet. All were directed by both the newby prospective networks & by high paid consultants. While Providence appeared totally disjointed, that is not because they did not engage $$$, guns & attorneys. It's because they have a dozen+ college presidents to answer to. We desperatedly need our own Larry Scott.

What do we collectively know about:
San Diego State? Spent enormous dollars on a massive gorgeous campus & infrastructure in Mission Valley. Strongly supported by a wealthy business community. Sports? Not to any level we would recognize.
Boise? Clearly a strong 15 year effort to get to the most competitive level. Evidence of solid decision making & dollars.
BYU? O ... they have potential.
SMU? They have been to the top of the Sport. Big Endowment. Dallas.

And so on. There are lots of Programs that match UConn's desire to be at this top rung. My POINT: They all are showing the capacity to invest the requisite dollars to play. (since Vegas ... they have the ante)

So ... dispute OUR inclusion in this farflung confusion. Dispute what's best for our State U. Propose lots of alternatives & BEG HARDER. But, PLEASE, all of these Universities have the capacity to be a player. My only other lesson from the Big East: We don't want another Miami. (that could be Boise in this case) You want the Regional ties; you want their ability to feel connected. And, this is why we now have a WEST in the Big East.

 

[Pudge]

So your payment of taxes entitles you to have veto power over which athletic programs we band together with?

You realize Penn State ain't comin' back, right?

Yeah ... this is a curious take on Entitlement. If I pay Tax Dollars, I can control what my State athletic program will do.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

So your payment of taxes entitles you to have veto power over which athletic programs we band together with?

You realize Penn State ain't comin' back, right?

Yes, I think my tax dollars entitles me to just that. Even as a straw man, that's a reach.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The fundamental question is WHY are we in a National conference.

I'll take a stab and try to keep it short. Yeah right. SHort answere is the Big East confeence 32 year history and counting.

We are now in a national conference because in the early 1970s, intercollegiate sports were completely re-organized around football, and athletic departments were put through great change, by it, also by the advent of Title iX and women's athletics. Divisions of football based on numbers of scholarships that were to be funded were created. Athletic departments were forced to really look at their bookkeeping and their visions for the future. Football, as an intercollegiate sport, had taken a hit in the northeast, for a just over two full recruiting cycles at the time as the Ivy leage had discontinued scholarships 10 years earlier.

Vermont dropped out of the Yankee Conference because of football and title ix implementation funding issues. The ECAC, and other basketball leagues began to spring up, as football was in turmoil as athletic departments at dozens of colleges re=evaluated their missions and goals, and athletic departments in the northeast began to fracture their affiliations of sports among diferent leagues in the 70s. In 1978, divsion 1 athletics was further divided into 1-A, and 1-AA, based on a "public upport" clause driven by Joe Paterno, that effectively removed any football playing college in the northeast aside from Syracuse, BC, and Yale down to 1-AA. Recruiting. Joe Paterno, wins his national championships at Penn state a few years later without having to lift a finger to recruit the best players in the region.

THe big east conference forms in 1979. UConn gets an invite to join. ESPN is incorporated in 1979, and the founders of both entities are intimately connected for the next 20-25 years or so, and watch each other and help each other grow.

Joe Paterno - after having effectively wiped out all recruiting competition in the northeast other than 2 schools (Cuse and BC) tries desperately to complete his master plan, after winning his national champiionship at rural school in PA, risen up by formere IVy leaguer, in the shadow of hte Ivy leage, tries to forming an all sports northeastern based cnfernce in 1982, with the newly fomed Big East conference and Dave Gavitt. The vote is 5-3. No. 6-2 would have done it. (UConn voted yes)

Penn state continues independance, and Pitt is eventually added. THat made JoePa happy.

THe yankee conference continues as 1-AA, and Yale hangs on t 1-A until 1982, having agreat 1981 season which had them anked top 20 in the country, but capitultes and goes to 1-AA.

In 1984, Oklahoma et.al. sue the NCAA about broadcasting rights for college fooball, for the previous 40 years, the NCAA has hd direct control over who gets on TV and when. Supreme court decides in favor of Oklahoma - anti-trust violation by the NCAA

UConn b-ball is still coached by Dee Rowe, playin in the field house, and Tom Jackson is in te process of recruiting the winningest football class in school history to date. Women's b-ball is non-existent.

But we're playing big east basketball, with the likes of the best in the country, and all sports but football are now big east.

FFW to 1990. Gampel pavilion consructed. UConn has had it's first deep NCAA run in b-ball. THecontracts in place for television for cllege footbal have all expired. Some 28+ former independant football programs are flooding into conferences. THe first hints of a great divide in intercollegiate athletics become real. Lew Perkins writes a report for the UCONN BOT, discussing the issue and making it clear that he believes to protect UConn basketball in future, and the new found success, the football program needs to be upgraded and join division 1-A.

THe project sits in limbo. In 1991, the big east conference forms, reluctantly, as football playing entitiy, as a result of the re-structuring of the college football post season, and the newly formed bowl alliance, which would become the BCS by 1998. The original 16 team superconference idea,that led Lew Perkins to his conclusion, fails to form, b/c of the big east, Miami goes north, FSU goes ACC, other schools are scattered. THe big 8 conference folds, and the big 12 is formed, Conference USA is formed. Then Yankee conference is still 1-AA.

In 1994, Virginia Tech and Temple are begging to beome full sports members for football. A vote is had, and they are rejected. No more all sports schools. Oh but wait, Notre Dame, as one of the only remaining independants, is havin trouble scheduling their sports - I kid you not - 1 WEEK after VTech and Temple are rejected, Tranghese is on the phone inviting ND to join for all sports - except football.

THe big east is saved from complete breakdown, as ND agrees to schedulg BE teams i football. Temple and Vtech? Pissed. MIami hasbeen pissed all along at their treatment by the BE.

IN 1996, as schedling in the conference is still a pain with few members, UConn and VIllanova are extended invites to upgrade. Villanova does nothing. UConn BOT approves upgrade in Oct 1997 after extensive research, led by SEC people.....a report o which I"vepostd here before, and the project goes through all kinds of problems until finally passing point of no return to upgrade in 2000.

I think you can take it from there.

THe big east - is the reason that we've got no all sports northeastern league, and the reason we are now part of a national conference.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

I agree, once uv set that course, the big time schools will know they've had their way with you and try leveraging anything after THAT happens..... The way we got this home and home in the first place was off of a Bball series, and Texas wanted in as well. Edsall refused saying we weren't quite ready for Texas, I agree. Like Hathoway or not, he stood up to ND and Mich, and I'd rather grind it out and slowly improve our schedule due to hard work than just going for the quick fix and caving to these programs while pissing away our dignity along the way.

Wasn't Hathaway's backbone really a politician's un-greased, barbed, hot poker buried in a nether region?

 

[ZooCougar]

Pudge,

Are you referring to this one?

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/new-stadium-proposal-at-odds-with-unlv-stadium-plan-115608974.html

Saying that this demonstrates UNLV's commitment is almost like giving UMass credit for building Gillette.

If by saying national conference you really mean why is UConn in a conference with SMU, San Diego State and Boise...

Then my answer would be that this is because we haven't been invited to the ACC yet.

You can't put lipstick on this pig, and the UNLVs and Memphis's are pretty bad lipstick.

Zoo Cougar - YOU have no idea.

The fundamental question is WHY are we in a National conference.

Pro-Memphis & UNLV people? Who the hell are they? What we have invested ... if you look sideways, you would also see a HUGE investment by Louisville; Cincinnati; USF; Rutgers. Many of us have gone to road games & see the evidence. UNLV, in many articles you can google, is talking about a MASSIVE Sports complex focused on Football. (college football ... but they will be able to do conventions etc etc) A $1b venture. With the Developer that did Staples Center in downtown LA. How does that make sense? I can tell you that it is a rising trend on college campuses ... because I have been around this for a half-dozen years. That is Investment. I really don't understand UNLV. And, Fresno? Putrid farm city - Right whaler? But, you watch: I know that Fan Base from my UCLA days.

Investment in Football to get to the table. If that is what you are speaking to, then I suggest that there are 20 schools outside the 4 NOW Dominant comferences that are gearing up. Marinatto didn't select UCF, Houston, SMU, Boise etc in a closet. All were directed by both the newby prospective networks & by high paid consultants. While Providence appeared totally disjointed, that is not because they did not engage $$$, guns & attorneys. It's because they have a dozen+ college presidents to answer to. We desperatedly need our own Larry Scott.

What do we collectively know about:
San Diego State? Spent enormous dollars on a massive gorgeous campus & infrastructure in Mission Valley. Strongly supported by a wealthy business community. Sports? Not to any level we would recognize.
Boise? Clearly a strong 15 year effort to get to the most competitive level. Evidence of solid decision making & dollars.
BYU? O ... they have potential.
SMU? They have been to the top of the Sport. Big Endowment. Dallas.

And so on. There are lots of Programs that match UConn's desire to be at this top rung. My POINT: They all are showing the capacity to invest the requisite dollars to play. (since Vegas ... they have the ante)

So ... dispute OUR inclusion in this farflung confusion. Dispute what's best for our State U. Propose lots of alternatives & BEG HARDER. But, PLEASE, all of these Universities have the capacity to be a player. My only other lesson from the Big East: We don't want another Miami. (that could be Boise in this case) You want the Regional ties; you want their ability to feel connected. And, this is why we now have a WEST in the Big East.

 

[Pudge]

I note that you are linking a February 2011 article. And, there is one that was linked by a different poster of last week in Las Vegas.

MY POINT:

UConn is amongst a good solid two dozen class of Universities ready, willing and able to invest whatever they need to to get to the platform necessary to compete at this high level. The "Cartel" wants to sh+tcan this. No more Boise. But, I think history proves that Cartels have a tough time doing this. (in the long run) NBC or Fox is a ready source of revenue for a bunch of these schools.

Lipstick on a pig? We (UConn) have not advanced (YET) for a reason. Dismissive posts about Memphis OR Boise or San Diego State OR UNLV aside ... we need to chin our way up like they do. Undeniably, the 2004-2011 period showed that we are on a parallel track to Louisville & Rutgers & Cincinnati & USF. (we just don't know as much about UCF and others) In my opinion, we have a great market & great future. But, this is clearly the path we need to travel.

 

[whaler11]

I note that you are linking a February 2011 article. And, there is one that was linked by a different poster of last week in Las Vegas.

MY POINT:

UConn is amongst a good solid two dozen class of Universities ready, willing and able to invest whatever they need to to get to the platform necessary to compete at this high level. The "Cartel" wants to sh+tcan this. No more Boise. But, I think history proves that Cartels have a tough time doing this. (in the long run) NBC or Fox is a ready source of revenue for a bunch of these schools.

Lipstick on a pig? We (UConn) have not advanced (YET) for a reason. Dismissive posts about Memphis OR Boise or San Diego State OR UNLV aside ... we need to chin our way up like they do. Undeniably, the 2004-2011 period showed that we are on a parallel track to Louisville & Rutgers & Cincinnati & USF. (we just don't know as much about UCF and others) In my opinion, we have a great market & great future. But, this is clearly the path we need to travel.

What you seem to be missing is that there is a difference between Boise and San Diego State versus Memphis and UNLV. Some of the additions make sense and some don't. Not a single person I remember has dismissed Boise. San Diego State is acceptable under the circumstances. UCF/Houston/SMU were the best of the available options, but a school like Houston is a lottery ticket - if they were a sure thing they would have been in the Big XII conversation when they snapped up TCU. There was no reason to add Memphis. When Temple is added to fill out schedules, within a decade of them bombing out of the league - it's legitimate to question their inclusion.

You can stop lumping the arguments against the bad inclusions like Memphis with the good inclusions like Boise.

 

[junglehusky]

Let's say in 10 years Boise, SDSU, UNLV and Houston all become top 25-40 teams, develop rabid fanbases that support them well, and earn national respect for the NNBE. Good for them. I still would rather be in an east coast conference, even one that is not as highly regarded athletically, than a four timezone behemoth with the NNBE . Just for me, I'd rather play Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, BC, Maryland and maybe Temple just cause 1) I can drive to those games 2) on average they are more similar to UConn in terms of mission 3) I know people who went to those schools. If we beat Boise in a top ten nationally televised game, and I want to brag about it, I have to go on the internet and be an anonymous , which isn't quite the same as doing the "Hey did you see last night's game" thing around the office water cooler. Now maybe if I move to SDSU I'll be able to see UConn play there once every 8 years or something.

Now, that was a bit tongue in cheek but I do think there is a serious consideration to be made as far as alumni relations goes. Leaving aside the hardcore fans, will alumni be more engaged playing more games in the Northeast and east cost, where most of the alumni and prospective applicants live, or in Vegas and San Diego and Idaho?

And for the record Pudge, if you compare UConn to the USFs, Cincys as a whole university, not just athletically, we are a few years ahead of them. I'm glad for their success but let's not sell ourselves short either.

 

[UConnDan97]

Let's say in 10 years Boise, SDSU, UNLV and Houston all become top 25-40 teams, develop rabid fanbases that support them well, and earn national respect for the NNBE. Good for them. I still would rather be in an east coast conference, even one that is not as highly regarded athletically, than a four timezone behemoth with the NNBE . Just for me, I'd rather play Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, BC, Maryland and maybe Temple just cause 1) I can drive to those games 2) on average they are more similar to UConn in terms of mission 3) I know people who went to those schools. If we beat Boise in a top ten nationally televised game, and I want to brag about it, I have to go on the internet and be an anonymous , which isn't quite the same as doing the "Hey did you see last night's game" thing around the office water cooler. Now maybe if I move to SDSU I'll be able to see UConn play there once every 8 years or something.

Now, that was a bit tongue in cheek but I do think there is a serious consideration to be made as far as alumni relations goes. Leaving aside the hardcore fans, will alumni be more engaged playing more games in the Northeast and east cost, where most of the alumni and prospective applicants live, or in Vegas and San Diego and Idaho?

And for the record Pudge, if you compare UConn to the USFs, Cincys as a whole university, not just athletically, we are a few years ahead of them. I'm glad for their success but let's not sell ourselves short either.

Junglehusky, let me present you with a mock scenario and get your take on it (I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm actually curious to the answer):

A) We play in a conference that has no geographic boundaries (Boise St., etc.), but one that offers a larger and better tv contract, with perhaps better bowl tie-ins.
B) We play in a conference that has a tight geographic fit (Temple, UMass, etc.) but one that offers a lesser tv contract with less exposure, and perhaps with worse bowl tie-ins.

Which do you choose?

I actually share some of the sentiment that you have described, and I am psyched to not only play Rutgers every year, but Temple and perhaps even UMass as well (I would love to keep BC and Cuse in the mix, but...). However, if we tried to construct a northeastern conference right now, it would likely be worse off for us than one that includes Boise, SDSU, and the Texas teams. I think from my perspective, we can attempt to continue these rivalries with our regional "friends" in our OOC scheduling, but reap the benefits of a better contract, rather than try to construct a tight regional fit as best we can and get little for it (there is a conference with a tight regional fit but low tv contract, and they are called the MAC). Just my thoughts.

Also, you cracked me up with the being an "anonymous ." I also prefer to be a close and personal , rather than one that stays anonymous...

 

[junglehusky]

So if the choice is a purely northeastern football conference, let's say UConn/Rutgers/Cuse/Pitt/Temple/BC/Maryland/UMass/Jets/Giants/Patriots, and let's say we have the same TV contract the BE has now per school, I'd prefer a NNBE (with Louisville, USF, Boise and the rest).

If the choice is a OBE/ACC hybrid, including Rutgers, Cuse, Pitt, UVa, Maryland, BC, UNC, Dook and a few others (assume FSU and Clemson leave) with their current TV deal on ESPN/ABC versus the NNBE with a slightly higher per school TV deal on NBC sports or Fox sports, I'd take the ACC and I'm fairly confident UConn would make that choice too.

If the scenario is somewhere in between (nelsonmuntz and I as well were wondering if the B1G wants to pilfer UNC/UVA) or if the NBC/Fox executives are smoking meth and give us a contract worth much more per school* than the ACC contract then it's a bit harder to decide.

*I don't know what distinguishes "slightly more" versus "much more" in these hypotheticals. But like when you tell your boss you interviewed with another company and will leave unless he bumps up your salary, UConn's bigwigs will have a number in mind. From what Fishy says, so far UConn's people aren't happy with the numbers they heard so far.

 

[UConnDan97]

So if the choice is a purely northeastern football conference, let's say UConn/Rutgers/Cuse/Pitt/Temple/BC/Maryland/UMass/Jets/Giants/Patriots, and let's say we have the same TV contract the BE has now per school, I'd prefer a NNBE (with Louisville, USF, Boise and the rest).

If the choice is a OBE/ACC hybrid, including Rutgers, Cuse, Pitt, UVa, Maryland, BC, UNC, Dook and a few others (assume FSU and Clemson leave) with their current TV deal on ESPN/ABC versus the NNBE with a slightly higher per school TV deal on NBC sports or Fox sports, I'd take the ACC and I'm fairly confident UConn would make that choice too.

If the scenario is somewhere in between (nelsonmuntz and I as well were wondering if the B1G wants to pilfer UNC/UVA) or if the NBC/Fox executives are smoking meth and give us a contract worth significantly more than the ACC contract then it's a bit harder to decide.

Too bad the Jets are in the first league. We had something good going there with the Pats and Giants!

 

[ZooCougar]

Hawai'i is upgrading their their parking lot, maybe we should add them too.

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

UConn joining the Big East in football was a slap in the face to the schools that invited them?

Temple was denied an opportunity? Losing 80 out of 90 games their first go around wasn't an opportunity?

Why does Memphis deserve an opportunity? What did they do to earn a shot - install a video board?

As for why Michigan hadn't pulled the plug, they would like to move the game to a neutral site - if they truly believe UConn won't agree to that - then they will work on who they can replace them with at home and if it's suitable they pull the plug.

Actually, yes. Let me ask you this - if the Big East had pulled the trigger on allowing Villanova in for football last year would you have been happy with that decision? I remember a lot of people talking or writing at the time that they were unhappy with having to play UConn in football when UConn was joining the Big East for that sport. And what part of UConn football at that time was impressive to the likes of Miami or Va Tech? Memorial stadium? The trailers? I know that bringing those up is like beating a dead horse but really, what part about UConn football at that time was so impressive that anyone was saying UConn really brought anything to the table for Big East football? Now we have a beautiful stadium, the state of the art training facility, many campus improvements. I'm comparing the national perception of UConn football back then - to teams you're evaluating now.

And when did I ever say that Temple was denied an opportunity?

 

[ZooCougar]

Actually, yes. Let me ask you this - if the Big East had pulled the trigger on allowing Villanova in for football last year would you have been happy with that decision? I remember a lot of people talking or writing at the time that they were unhappy with having to play UConn in football when UConn was joining the Big East for that sport. And what part of UConn football at that time was impressive to the likes of Miami or Va Tech? Memorial stadium? The trailers? I know that bringing those up is like beating a dead horse but really, what part about UConn football at that time was so impressive that anyone was saying UConn really brought anything to the table for Big East football? Now we have a beautiful stadium, the state of the art training facility, many campus improvements. I'm comparing the national perception of UConn football back then - to teams you're evaluating now.

And when did I ever say that Temple was denied an opportunity?

Villanova and UConn are not a useful comparison. UConn was a solid buy back in those days. The school had a demonstrated track record of building something out of nothing and the prevailing conventional wisdom was that UConn was upgrading the right way, which really means that we were spending enough money to get a more than adequate stadium and training facility that would be the envy of much of the league.

Nova's upgrades were about as far from being solidified as possible and there was even talk of the league assisting in the financing. What exactly were Nova's stadium plans exactly? Sharing space with an MLS team? A minor league baseball franchise? American Gladiators?

UConn's situation was far more developed and demonstrated true commitment. The trailers were a temporary state of affairs.

UConn did bring something to Big East football. We were a very healthy warm body and probably slightly ahead of the curve in our progression from I-AA to I-A, and the league needed those at the time. In fact we were ready to play conference football a year earlier than anticipated, and in that first year we won enough games in conference to make a bowl game and win it, which was more than our long time football playing comrades could say.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Villanova and UConn are not a useful comparison. UConn was a solid buy back in those days. The school had a demonstrated track record of building something out of nothing and the prevailing conventional wisdom was that UConn was upgrading the right way, which really means that we were spending enough money to get a more than adequate stadium and training facility that would be the envy of much of the league.

Nova's upgrades were about as far from being solidified as possible and there was even talk of the league assisting in the financing. What exactly were Nova's stadium plans exactly? Sharing space with an MLS team? A minor league baseball franchise? American Gladiators?

UConn's situation was far more developed and demonstrated true commitment. The trailers were a temporary state of affairs.

UConn did bring something to Big East football. We were a very healthy warm body and probably slightly ahead of the curve in our progression from I-AA to I-A, and the league needed those at the time. In fact we were ready to play conference football a year earlier than anticipated, and in that first year we won enough games in conference to make a bowl game and win it, which was more than our long time football playing comrades could say.

This isn't entirely accurate. UConn was (on our own) pursuing an upgrade to 1-A football as of 1990, when the original 16 team superconference concept was in real discussions among the Metro Conference members ad multiple division 1-A footblal independants - including Syracuse, Boston College, PIttsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Miami, Virginia Tech.....

Former UConn president Harry Hartley and frmer AD Lew Perkins - got together and realized that if that conference formed, Big East basketball, was likely dead. UConn football, at the time, since 1978 - had downgraded from division 1 (small college) to 1-AA and had no part in anythign that was happening in the national intercollegiate restructuring

Lew presented a report to the BOT, and the project was put in motion, but quickly shelved and resurfaced a few times through the early 1990s. Joining the big east conference for football at the time, was a pipe dream, we simply wanted to do what UMass is trying to do right now.

BUt in 1994, the big east almost splintered in half. WOn't go into details. 1995, notre ame was added to appease bothsides. BY 1996, the league was again havng trouble, becuase of scheduling. Two teams were invited to be added. UConn and VIllanova. UConn BOT didn't go to formal vote until Oct. 1997, and after a report, co-authored by the former SEC commissioner, about the feasibility of an upgade for UCOnn was presented. Tht former SEC commissioner tabbed UConn - as an institution that was very similar to SEC institutions and had the potential to become like such an athletic department in size and stature in the national landscape. THe vote was approved in 1997 to official upgrade. The upgrade wasn't official until the summer of 2000, because of issues around facilities, location, and financiang.

The entry into a BCS conference? Without basketball in the Big East confernece, no way UConn ever upgrades into a BCS football conference.

BUt to say that we didn't bring anything, isn't correct. The potential UConn had to be successful was laid out clearly in a 1996 report commissioned by Roy Kramer, and presented to the BOT - which I've linked here before.

Villanova? Oh man. THey had open invitation to upgradefor 13 years, and after 13 years, they came up with proposal they presented in sping 2011.

Now that - was a big example of a slap in the face among big east conference leadership. I can only imagine what the leadership at Syracuse and Pittsburgh were thinking when the leadership of Villanova presented that plan.

IT's simple - they were thinking - let's get the hell out of here now. And they did.

 

[ZooCougar]

Carl,

It's my understanding, and it could be wrong, that UConn, as a charter member of the conference was virtually guaranteed a seat at the table football wise up until a certain date. We acted on it in time and Nova passed..

Due to the weird hybrid nature of the conference, this the only BCS conference that would ever do such a thing based on the politics.

If you go back far enough, you can paint UConn's upgrading effort in the most negative light possible. Everything starts as an idea and it takes time for the will of the Institution to be commited and acted upon.

Additionally, it wasn't like UConn moving was a response to the league falling apart. We upgraded with the assumption that we would be playing football with Miami, VT and BC and we weren't trying to do it on the cheap either.

I am not trying to see that UConn was God's gift to Big East football, but we pulled our weight from day one. There were some people who were dismissive, but they weren't fully informed or in some cases, they were flat out threatened by our progress.

The Villanova talk of upgrading was opportunistic based on our league's crisis. Do you think that discussion would have made it that far if the league was on solid footing? If we were not as desperate, then I highly doubt that anyone but the most incompetent management would give Villanova serious consideration at their meager plan of upgrading. Given all that, it just doesn't appear to be a useful comparison.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Carl,

It's my understanding, and it could be wrong, that UConn, as a charter member of the conference was virtually guaranteed a seat at the table football wise up until a certain date. We acted on it in time and Nova passed..

Due to the weird hybrid nature of the conference, this the only BCS conference that would ever do such a thing based on the politics.

If you go back far enough, you can paint UConn's upgrading effort in the most negative light possible. Everything starts as an idea and it takes time for the will of the Institution to be commited and acted upon.

Additionally, it wasn't like UConn moving was a response to the league falling apart. We upgraded with the assumption that we would be playing football with Miami, VT and BC and we weren't trying to do it on the cheap either.

I am not trying to see that UConn was God's gift to Big East football, but we pulled our weight from day one. There were some people who were dismissive, but they weren't fully informed or in some cases, they were flat out threatened by our progress.

The Villanova talk of upgrading was opportunistic based on our league's crisis. Do you think that discussion would have made it that far if the league was on solid footing? If we were not as desperate, then I highly doubt that anyone but the most incompetent management would give Villanova serious consideration at their meager plan of upgrading. Given all that, it just doesn't appear to be a useful comparison.

No - if by some chance, UConn had actually made the upgrade early in the 1990s, there was no invite to be playing in the Big East. THe invite didn't come until 1996. You are right, UConn's upgrade to 1-A didn't begin with anything having to do with the Big East conference - other than the threat that Big East basketball would end. The thought process of upgrading began before there even was a Big East football conference.

Understand this: The entire thought process of upgrading to 1-A football began with the premise of PROTECTING UCONN BASKETBALL. That is truth. There was a real and measurable threat to the newly minted UConn basketball program and the shiny new Gampel pavilion in 1990, and it had to do with the restructuring of the intercollegiate landscape nationally around division 1-A football, adn television broadcasting rights, and the restructing of the college football post season.

The invite, to UConn and VIllanova to upgrade in 1996, most definitely was a response to difficulty within the league, and mostly had to do with scheduling. The league needed more members to be able to schedule well, with the landscape shifting as much as it had, and virtually no independants left other than Notre Dame and Navy. Army had gone into a conference. I agree though, no other 1-A football conference would have done what the Big EAst did - they would have gone after other established 1-A programs. There's more to it, since the late 1990s, up until 2003, Mike Tranghese was in active discussions about moving football out of the big east. THat's real.

We did upgrade with the assumption that we would be in a league with Miami, VTech, BC, WVU, Cuse, Pitt, but if our leadership had been paying attention to what was happening b/w 1998-2002 with big east leadership, the national landscape of intercollegiate athletics, the newly formed BCS national championship game.......the fact that we would never get return game to Connecticut from a #1 team in the country in Miami should have come as no surprise. As well as all the other defections of the league.

Hell, I wanted out in 1997 as soon as the vote was official. Vast minority I was. While UConn basketball was winning it's first national men's title. It wasn't until Navy came on board that I was comfortable moving forward with the Big East.

 

[Pudge]

UConn was NOT a solid buy. You have your National Flag Blue eyeshades on. See ... here's the thing, that comes up over & over here, we are not all that different from a whole bunch of these other programs. I hear Brand. I hear we had a Stadium on the way. We had won a NC in Hoop. Many of these other misfit schools have that as well.

I actually got why Syracuse and Pitt showed disdain toward us. And BC acted like we were the Immigrant hotel cleaners getting into their school. Within a decade, we are (arguably) better than two of those Programs; and we can really be beyond the other as well. (imho) Louisville. USF. Cincinnati. Given a little opening, this upgrade happens.

A viable plan - leads to Big East membership. the scorn, dismissiveness, derision thrown at Memphis. Temple. even UCF. and some at San Diego State (I guess TCU and/or Boise is acceptable ... but we still can bitch about playing all the way over on that side of the country). We have an opportunity, directed by TV money, to make $7-10m (far beyond where we've been) through good fortune/timing. That's our path. And someone with a lot of due diligence chose a bunch of schools. It wasn't about Parking Lots ... but damn, you build a $1b Football complex to ante into this: guess what?

 

[Carl Spackler]

I agree Pudge. I hope you don't mind my blathering on your thread.

IN the late 1990s, in the eyes of long time division 1-A football playing institutions, UConn was still a Yankee Conference school. THey had reason to think so, beacuse we actually were a Yankee conference school, in every shape way and fashion, except for a nice basketball arena on campus that seated at the time, just over 8,000 people.

We were one of the state schools in the northeast and east coast, that willingly went 1-AA "cost containment" model of intercollegiate football....twenty years earlier.

The schools with the perception that they didn't have the fan followings that it took be a 1-A. The schools that didn't have the money, and support for a large scale athletic department, that couldn't recruit.....etc. etc.

UConn (with Villanova) got tapped to join what was to become a BCS conference, in 1996, and what did the other football members think then? The other members like Miami? Well....the same thing that members like Syracuse and Pitt thought in 2003 when Depaul and Marquette were included in the expansion plan.

The real danger for UConn was in the early 1990s, not now, because except for football, for the previous decade, we had completely severed ties to every athletic department in the northeast that was like minded and of similar mission and were very close to being in position to #begharder to get into what would become the CAA, or the A10, with a basketball programs that was just experiencing what it was like to be on the big stage and an atheltic department,a nd univeristy itself - the academic and infrastructure part - that was still - well if you were on campus back in the 80s and early 90s....and havne't been back since - you wouldn't recognize anything.

We went big time in basketball in 1979, and then brought all sports except football along to the big east by 1982. Even though we weren't playing big time b-ball until late 1980s and after JIm Calhoun was hired.

With the likes of Syracuse, PItt, Boston College in real consideration of joining an all sports, 16 team league, with Miami, VTech, Temple, Rutgers, Memphis, Florida State, among others....in 1990....the big east was the closest it's ever been to collapsing. The big east leadership decided to start a football league, and invite some of those 1-A programs to play, and that superconference never formed, and FSU ended up in the ACC, Conference USA formed,....etc.

There is a difference between Memphis in 2011, and UConn in 1997 though, as pitiful as it has been in recent times, Memphis actually is a division 1-A program, as are all the others. Depaul, Marquette? their football programs? I've been over the past 10 years ad nauseum.

It was not until 2010, and John Marinatto making the move for TCU, that the big east conference demonstrated any single action that reflected an actual committment to football, beyond doing the bare minimum for the basketball conference to remain on the favorable side of the divide in intercollegiate athletics and revenue streams.

I think that the future of the big east is very bright, and if you want to know why you're at a certain position in time, and place, it's a good idea to know where you've come from. And if you want to continue on a path toward something, it's a good idea to be aligned with people that have the same mission and goals.

We also happen to be in a perfect position to take advantage of something called 'timing' with regards to media markets and the value of sports.

 

[businesslawyer]

I agree Pudge. I hope you don't mind my blathering on your thread.

.

Wait -- are you saying that if we mind, you won't do it?

 

[Carl Spackler]

all you gotta do...

is ask me nicely.

 

[Dougsts]

all you gotta do...

is ask me nicely.

In that case, please continue Carl