I can't help myself (Tenn, merged thread)

[Carnac]

Fulmer has a real big problem. Westbrook dropped it right in his lap. Now we'll see if Fulmer has the chops of a real AD.

The way I see it, from Westbrook's comments and her mother's comments earlier, Westbrook is gone. I'm not sure she is a good fit for UConn and Geno. Can't deny her talent but talent only goes so far. She's been playing the point which is not her strength. I do wonder about her intensity to give 110% effort 100% of the time.

As to ESPN, don't deviate from the company line.

I have not seen the video you folks are speaking of. If she has already decided to leave, then she no doubt felt free to speak her mind, even though it may not have been appropriate for her to do so. Westbrook won't have a problem finding a landing spot. Most of your top 10 programs would take her in a heat beat. You know Dawn Staley and Jeff Walz would go there personally to pick her up if she would agree to transfer to their respective program. Let's not kid ourselves, Westbrook is a talent. She just needs a new environment (coach/school), a little polish and coaching to bring out her latent talent and potential. She can find both of those in a number of places.

 

[oldude]

I see zero chance of Geno taking anyone as a transfer out of Tennessee.

He would certainly take Horston if she withdrew her commitment considering UConn was among her finalists, and she’s yet to be “tainted” by the mess at TN.

 

[oldude]

They could always re-assign her to he cafeteria as either a cook or server.

Yea, and if people complained about their meal, she could blame the food.

 

[oldude]

A big chunk of the 40 pages were screen shots of some UConn fans bragging on the Boneyard about speaking with Ernie Della Donne at games. These screen shots were taken by a Summitteer who was outraged by some elderly men, one in a wheelchair, who had the temerity to compliment Elena to her dad. Several Summiteers picked up the drumbeat and becaome absolutely bananas, developing a paranoia about all of UConn’s perceived transgressions all the medication in the world couldn’t tame.

I know about the pages in the complaint because I got invited up to UConn to have a chat with Compliance and some lawyers to discuss the matter.

Again, I get that some TN fans were complete AH’s. But Pat was the ultimate arbiter as to whether or not the complaint went to the NCAA, and it’s my belief that her deteriorating condition was a factor in moving forward with the complaint, as well as canceling the series with UConn.

 

[j66kicker]

He would certainly take Horston if she withdrew her commitment considering UConn was among her finalists, and she’s yet to be “tainted” by the mess at TN.

She’s tainted in my mind because she chose TN. Maybe “tainted but salvageable?”

Regarding Westbrook, she’s beyond tainted for UConn. In addition to the character flaw that made her select TN in the first place, she checks some other “no way” boxes:

1) No way UConn would tolerate her comments to the press about the coaching staff, whether prompted by reporters or not.

2) She has an over-involved parent who has been publicly, and strongly, hinting Evina is going to transfer.

3) Geno would never put up with her selective level of effort in games.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Have not seen Tenn play much this year but amazed at the talent and amazed at the lack of coaching.

Yup. Early in the game Kushkituah committed the most glaring example of a moving screen I have ever seen in my life.

 

[DefenseBB]

Wow! Humble or arrogant, fantastic posting. Nice analysis, great compassion, not a bad word in a dozen. I enjoyed this read from apparently an intelligent and nice person.
I do disagree that the assistant in any program (CD's an Associate) is the heir apparent when a long time successful coach resigns. I believe in a search for a winning coach for a winning program. There is no guarantee either way whether UC will get another Geno or a HW. I dislike a coach using written direction during timeouts. A coach knows their team and from practices and games what each kid can and cannot do. Scratch the scratch sheets. --Really nice words and posting, just my uninformed beliefs on coaching heirs.

Broadway please do not take my assessment as an endorsement of any heir taking over. I understand it as Pat’s disease, her standing at the University and in the sport sort of forced the AD’s hand. I also think the results of 2012 as Holly as the defacto coach played a large part. Now as a UConn fan, if Tenn wants to make the same mistake again, who are we to stand in the way?

 

[Dillon77]

TN has the option to release her from a signed letter of intent. "Usually" SOP when a coaching change is involved. Last time I remember this happening was with Kate Cain who originally signed with Delaware. When Tina Martin resigned at Delaware, Cain was released from her NLI and has had a very productive career as rebounder shot blocker at Nebraska. If TN does not release her then things might get messy and no telling what will happen after that.

After the Connie Yow "resignation," the Nebraska athletic department released two players from a signed letter of intent and allowed them to open up their recruitment again. Mi'Cole Cayton ended up enrolling at California where, unfortunately, she's had an injury-plagued career thus far; and, starting PG Kathleen Doyle just helped her Iowa Hawkeyes team advance to the Sweet 16.

 

[HuskyNan]

Again, I get that some TN fans were complete AH’s. But Pat was the ultimate arbiter as to whether or not the complaint went to the NCAA, and it’s my belief that her deteriorating condition was a factor in moving forward with the complaint, as well as canceling the series with UConn.

No, the SEC filed the complaint.

 

[UConnCat]

 

[DefenseBB]

I see zero chance of Geno taking anyone as a transfer out of Tennessee.

Technically, wouldn’t Jordan Horston be a “transfer” with immediate eligibility? I would take her...

 

[oldude]

Technically, wouldn’t Jordan Horston be a “transfer” with immediate eligibility? I would take her...

You can’t transfer if you never enroll in classes. Technically, she would be a recruit, and yes, she would be immediately eligible, assuming TN granted her release, which is SOP when the coach who recruited a player is fired.

 

[Bigpetunia]

I grew up, and spent most of my life, deep in SEC territory. For my friends here who speculate about the “major dilemma” facing AD Fullmer, I think you’re mistaken. For any SEC AD, the job is, was, and will always be a football job. Women’s basketball, even at a once legendary program like UT, is almost an afterthought, way down the list of concerns. I wish it were otherwise, but this is all about where the $ is!

I've never before quoted one of my own posts, but I do this to further illustrate to my friends here what the economics are for many major athletic programs, particularly in a conference like the SEC. The last time I checked, maybe two years ago, football revenues at UT were approximately $145 Million(!), with $50 Million of pure profit. Men's basketball netted around $5 Million, and everything else lost money, including women's basketball, around $2.5 - 3 Million. AD Fullmer ain't going to bed at night with a whole lot on his mind about WBB!

 

[Geew1992]

AGREED!!!!!!

Disagree. Idc what team a player plays for. If they can improve and help the team, Geno will take them

 

[Geew1992]

Technically, wouldn’t Jordan Horston be a “transfer” with immediate eligibility? I would take her...

She signed a LOI so she would have to be released for the letter. Just like EDD was

 

[oldude]

You know this how?

Your question implies that the SEC submitted this complaint on their own without any input or support from TN. If that is so, then UConn fans have absolutely no justification to demand an apology from anyone at TN.

But let’s be real. Pat was an institution at TN as well as the SEC when it came to WBB. The conference would never have made such a controversial decision without the input and support of Pat. It’s a bit naive to suggest otherwise.

 

[cabbie191]

Been there and had that reaction from UT fans. Didn't really notice when PS was the HC. Have experienced it since UT demise. It's not subtle either.

On the other hand, when my brothers and I were in Nashville for the Final Four, the Tennessee fans we met were entirely friendly. Might have been different had the Lady Vols advanced that far but I can only go by what our experience was.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Couple of thoughts: Transitions stink. Can we name iconic coaches who've left and had their program tootle along, all systems running? Seemed like that had happen on the men's side, but that went off the rails right quick.

So, how does one decide to move on, and what does one do to set up the transition/future success. Can a current coach make honest assessments? Can they actually walk away and be hands off? Is it a given that the "next in line" will get chewed up, spit out, and then someone new has to come in?

Not sure how much transition time Tennessee had. When the diagnosis came out, it was all but too late to consider an honest assessment of the situation. The decision of least resistance/disrespect was chosen. We see the consequences.

I don't envy whoever steps in for Kim, Geno or Muffet.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Men's basketball netted

I see what you did there.

As you say, economics is a big deal in all this. In past threads about Coach P at Duke it was pointed out that no AD would spend a million plus to buy out the contract of a women's basketball coach. The same reasoning applies here. To fire her means to eat at least $800K. That's hard to justify for a sport that loses money already.

Also, there's the part about the AD looking bad among his peers. And it probably wouldn't go over well with most taxpayers or stakeholders in any other part of the system that is starved for funds.

 

[Hayven]

You can’t transfer if you never enroll in classes. Technically, she would be a recruit, and yes, she would be immediately eligible, assuming TN granted her release, which is SOP when the coach who recruited a player is fired.

If Holly is released, Horston won’t come to UConn. She and her mom were not happy with how UConn fans responded to Jordan committing to Tennessee

 

[CocoHusky]

If Holly is released, Horston won’t come to UConn. She and her mom were not happy with how UConn fans responded to Jordan committing to Tennessee

Oh well! Can you at least point out it was "some" UCONN fans and that the vast majority wished her well mainly because "some" predicted the dumpster fire at TN.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Yup. Early in the game Kushkituah committed the most glaring example of a moving screen I have ever seen in my life.[/QUOT

Disagree. Idc what team a player plays for. If they can improve and help the team, Geno will take them

Disagree. The coaching staff is way more selective than that. They also recruit character and commitment.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

On behalf of TN, who submitted it with the approval and support of Pat.

Yes. Look, it is quite clear that Tennessee's female sports AD Joan Cronan transmitted a multipage letter of complaint, with an over 30 page addendum of "stuff" including BY "stuff" to the SEC offices in July 2006 and the SEC did not "investigate" that mountain of nonsense, but transmitted it on to the NCAA that same month. The SEC was a cipher intended to hide the true identities of those involved AND it worked for nearly 2 years.

U of T is a public institution and the complaint documents were turned over by Tennessee under a FOIA request from ESPN in 2008.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I don't envy whoever steps in for Kim, Geno or Muffet.

Yep, big shoes to fill. Tara will be another tough act to follow. Maybe Stanford being what it is, they might not have quite as tough of a transition as some other schools.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Yes - and Tara - no disrespect intended.

CViv/Rutgers are in a different situation - for a variety of reasons.

Lot of "middle aged" coaches have stepped into programs and built them up. Feels like the future is in good hands....