Hypothetical: Z and Crystal Dangerfield Both Start - Who Doesn't?

[Buster]

Kia is a great player + Kia is a senior + Geno is loyal to a fault = Kia will start.

 

[MilfordHusky]

It should be noted that Jefferson was given the starting PG role immediately as a soph and developed quickly. Not out of the realm of possibility that Dangerfield can do the same.

Dangerfield and Jefferson had eerily similar stats per minute played as freshmen with the exception of Dangerfield's advantage in assists.

If I recall correctly, Mo had a decent start as a sophomore, but really got in gear in January with some great defensive games and a big jump in her shooting percentage. I thought she played at or near an All-American level the last 2 months of the year. As a junior, she again had a somewhat slow start, but began to excel in December. In her senior year, she wreaked havoc from day one. And she hasn't slowed down.

 

[DICKG]

Everybody seems to be assuming that either Crystal or Azura will start next year, but not both. Just as a force ranking exercise (real world), what if BOTH of them start? Which of last years starters comes off the bench?

This isn't a, "That's not gonna happen - we can't do that to one of this year's starters" poll. If that's your answer, then feel free not to participate. But, what if.....?

The question isn't who will start; but rather how is Geno going to keep 11 excellent players satisfied with minutes; he has never been one to go too deep with the bench. Irwin, Bent and Butler might as well leave if they want to play any basketball next year.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Geno has traditionally been loyal to his returning players and because this years team ended the season on such a disappointing note he will start the 4 returning starters adding a 5th IMHO it will be Azura Stevens, the 2018 Player of the year in waiting!

 

[B BLOCK]

I don't think Crystal will start With the Graduation of Saniya Chong, I see Stevens in the starting lineup with Kia, KLS, Gabby, and Napheesa. Geno won't have a true PG. Crystal will lead the players coming off the bench to form a second starting unit. I didn't vote.

I agree 100% with this. Geno will NEVER not start Kia, he just won't. I don't know much about Stevens but Crystal has left me very very unimpressed. Crystal does have a tremendous up side and if she builds a real game and learns to play D she could be a major contributor. Down side is there will be many very talented players sitting out significant minutes as this team is just soooo deep.

 

[j66kicker]

Geno has traditionally been loyal to his returning players and because this years team ended the season on such a disappointing note he will start the 4 returning starters adding a 5th IMHO it will be Azura Stevens, the 2018 Player of the year in waiting!

Not seeing the logic here.....????

 

[hoophuskee]

It should be noted that Jefferson was given the starting PG role immediately as a soph and developed quickly. Not out of the realm of possibility that Dangerfield can do the same.

Dangerfield and Jefferson had eerily similar stats per minute played as freshmen with the exception of Dangerfield's advantage in assists.

It should be also noted that she turned the corner her frosh year and started playing really well at the end of year. Why assume it was "the minutes" and not "the talent?" Therefore she would have been playing well whether it be 20 minutes or 30.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

It should be also noted that she turned the corner her frosh year and started playing really well at the end of year. Why assume it was "the minutes" and not "the talent?" Therefore she would have been playing well whether it be 20 minutes or 30.

Dangerfield played extremely well at times too including a stretch at the end of the regular season and into the conference tourney. It was at that time that Geno was praising her upside and talking about her potentially being the next Olympic PG. Regardless, she needs court time to develop and the staff will have to determine if she will get enough coming off the bench.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Everybody seems to be assuming that either Crystal or Azura will start next year, but not both. Just as a force ranking exercise (real world), what if BOTH of them start? Which of last years starters comes off the bench?

This isn't a, "That's not gonna happen - we can't do that to one of this year's starters" poll. If that's your answer, then feel free not to participate. But, what if.....?

Not my opinion but I'm ready to read that in this scenario that some here would say KLS. Her critics continue saying she's soft and is a weak defender so that she is seemingly the weakest link insofar as Gabby and Pheesa are concerned. And then we have Kia whose three point shooting in the latter part of the season was through the roof and who is a staunch defender so that only leaves Katy Lou, right? I'm certainly not expressing my opinion because KLS is MY favorite Huskie but with all the innuendo I heard on the Boneyard, particularly over the past few weeks of this season, that's what I'm inclined to think will be posted!

 

[Buzzyboy]

Gabby would sit. But this is an extreme hypothetical as far as I'm concerned, because CD is going to have to do a lot more growing before she can be trusted as PG in my opinion with Kia not on the floor.

I so agree with everything you said. If I could give ten likes, I would have because Crystal keeps the ball in her hands for too much of most possessions, as far as I could see. A lot of dribbling and that's so far away from the type of ball that we all like to see. The more ball movement, the better for everyone. That's what makes this team a very dangerous offensive oriented monster.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I so agree with everything you said. If I could give ten likes, I would have because Crystal keeps the ball in her hands for too much of most possessions, as far as I could see. A lot of dribbling and that's so far away from the type of ball that we all like to see. The more ball movement, the better for everyone. That's what makes this team a very dangerous offensive oriented monster.

What took you so long? If we become too politically correct on this board to speak the truth as we see it, then we might as well pack it in.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Make it easy why don't you! Assuming as they stand without expected improvements.
I say Lou sits. Collier and Nurse have more complete games than Lou. Both shoot the 3 ball as well or better (as they did this year). Nurse's leadership is needed. Can't see pulling 300+ rebounds and respectively 69% and 58% FG% each by Collier and Williams. Can't see sitting Williams with 190 assists and 100 steals. Pull the team's engine? No.

I can assure you that if KLS played less minutes, you wouldn't see the same numbers from Collier and Gabby because the defenses would certainly focus on them more than they did this year. Most people don't seem to realize the attention that KLS gets from the opposing defense. I know this is just a hypothetical situation but the day that Crystal Dangerfield gets a start over KLS is a sad one in the annals of UConn women's basketball. I knew that there would be those who would name KLS because of all the different posts where Gabby or Pheesa were spoken of as POY type players while there was criticism of KLS being banged around, not strong enough and weak on defense. As I've mentioned, if others on this team were hammered game after game like KLS was, their performances would surely have been affected mightily.

 

[Buzzyboy]

What took you so long? If we become too politically correct on this board to speak the truth as we see it, then we might as well pack it in.

I did get chastised a bit ago because I evidently was "too harsh" in suggesting that Crystal Dangerfield's decision making needed some work. I'm inclined to think it's from someone who thinks that any criticism of any kind, no matter how subtle, is child (or young lady) abuse. We should all love these girls (actually we do) but never say anything that may hurt their feelings. I wonder how many of them would be able to watch a Geno practice and not have him up on charges?

 

[Buzzyboy]

Dangerfield played extremely well at times too including a stretch at the end of the regular season and into the conference tourney. It was at that time that Geno was praising her upside and talking about her potentially being the next Olympic PG. Regardless, she needs court time to develop and the staff will have to determine if she will get enough coming off the bench.

As has been mentioned, you earn your minutes. Who on this team would not improve with more playing time. It's about how much that person would improve and at what cost. They earn the opportunity to improve in practice, which is said to be much harder than any potential game situations so that's their opportunity. Your remark seems to suggest that when Crystal Dangerfield is good, she's very good but when she's bad, whew!!! Really awful!

 

[Buzzyboy]

There actually is a danger (pun alert!) in this incredible embarrassment of riches.

If Crystal DOESN'T start--and I agree that that's the likeliest scenario even if it means UConn starts the season without a true point--she may not really fulfill her destiny as a premier point guard. The games when Kia was hurt showed she played well when given lots of playing time. If she doesn't get the big minutes next year, she'll essentially start her junior year with a big burden, with very talented players behind her.

If Walker is as good as she's reported to be, than maybe Dangerfield won't even be the first person off the bench most games. So early to make any judgements and even then, what we judge the answer to be may be based on what we hear and a moment here or there. The significant thing is what the staff and in particular Geno thinks, is the answer for this team.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Your remark seems to suggest that when Crystal Dangerfield is good, she's very good but when she's bad, whew!!! Really awful!

She was a freshmen. Do you recall how Stewart and Jefferson's freshmen years went? Plenty of stinkers in there as well.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

CD has a lot of talent. Some of her passes knock me out. Some of her shots knock me out. Some of her hang out dribbling drives me crazy. Make no mistake, I want her to become the next great Husky PG. I'm just puzzled at what I see from her. Don't know what she is going through; just know that if it continues anon and anon she won't be the next great Husky PG. Tough Love: What Geno delivers in his own way. This year gave her a terrific challenge and opportunity. Her grade: a B-. I want her to hit it out of the park(mixed sports metaphor alert) come next year.

 

[j66kicker]

Not my opinion but I'm ready to read that in this scenario that some here would say KLS. Her critics continue saying she's soft and is a weak defender so that she is seemingly the weakest link insofar as Gabby and Pheesa are concerned. And then we have Kia whose three point shooting in the latter part of the season was through the roof and who is a staunch defender so that only leaves Katy Lou, right? I'm certainly not expressing my opinion because KLS is MY favorite Huskie but with all the innuendo I heard on the Boneyard, particularly over the past few weeks of this season, that's what I'm inclined to think will be posted!

Well, with 60 votes in, KLS is the least voted to not start, at 13%. Kia leads with 57%.

 

[hoophuskee]

The question isn't who will start; but rather how is Geno going to keep 11 excellent players satisfied with minutes; he has never been one to go too deep with the bench. Irwin, Bent and Butler might as well leave if they want to play any basketball next year.

That's not the question fo the thread. You have an agenda imo -- and it's weird. No offense to you. It's one thing to criticize some of Geno's moves. But you are on the borderline of criticzing an 11 time champion's philosophy and using over-exaggerrations like UCONN has 11 excellent players to make your prior point of a deep bench -- which I think is wrong.

 

[hoophuskee]

Dangerfield played extremely well at times too including a stretch at the end of the regular season and into the conference tourney. It was at that time that Geno was praising her upside and talking about her potentially being the next Olympic PG. Regardless, she needs court time to develop and the staff will have to determine if she will get enough coming off the bench.

Again. Why assume it has to do with minutes and not talent? You are speaking of her talent in your reply to me, are you not? She will get more court time. Sure.

 

[HopJim]

She was a freshmen. Do you recall how Stewart and Jefferson's freshmen years went? Plenty of stinkers in there as well.

Anyone remember how Jefferson got minutes? She was initially a great defender, only got points as her other skills developed. Curious why most posters only looking at offensive skills. With a very athletic group coming in, predict minutes for subs will be more based on lack of mistakes AND defense. Virtually everyone next year can put it up.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Again. Why assume it has to do with minutes and not talent? You are speaking of her talent in your reply to me, are you not? She will get more court time. Sure.

I'm not sure what you are asking. There's little doubt about Dangerfield's talent in my eyes and seemingly not in Geno's. But it will help if she plays decent minutes and with the better players on the squad. Not sure playing in garbage time with the back of the bench as often as she did helped her development. In fact, her best overall stretch came when she started at two different times early and late in the season.

 

[SVCBeercats]

I can assure you that if KLS played less minutes, you wouldn't see the same numbers from Collier and Gabby because the defenses would certainly focus on them more than they did this year. Forget assure. I can guarantee you that next season Collier and Williams will produce very similar numbers because their opponents' focus will be on Azura Stevens. Most people don't seem to realize the attention that KLS gets from the opposing defense. This was certainly true during the So. Carolina game where Allisha Gray shadowed KLS everywhere. But by season's end opponents realized, despite what the media were saying, they had to focus on Collier and Williams. These two were the consistent threats. I know this is just a hypothetical situation but the day that Crystal Dangerfield gets a start over KLS is a sad one in the annals of UConn women's basketball. I knew that there would be those who would name KLS because of all the different posts where Gabby or Pheesa were spoken of as POY type players while there was criticism of KLS being banged around, not strong enough and weak on defense. As I've mentioned, if others on this team were hammered game after game like KLS was, their performances would surely have been affected mightily. Yeah, Collier and Williams were not at all hammered by other posts, who were anywhere from 4 to 8 inches taller and 40 to 60 pounds heavier. No not at all. Who was bumping KLS around out beyond the arc? Yeah, posts have it easy. They don't have to take all the punishment guards get out on the perimeter. Riiiiiiight!

 

[SVCBeercats]

Dangerfield played extremely well at times too including a stretch at the end of the regular season and into the conference tourney. It was at that time that Geno was praising her upside and talking about her potentially being the next Olympic PG. Regardless, she needs court time to develop and the staff will have to determine if she will get enough coming off the bench.

With Geno it is the other way around. You develop in practice. If you can't do it in practice, you won't do it in a game. Playing time is earned. No gimmes. Eleven national championships tell me Geno, CD, et al know how to develop their players.

 

[SVCBeercats]

It should be also noted that she turned the corner her frosh year and started playing really well at the end of year. Why assume it was "the minutes" and not "the talent?" Therefore she would have been playing well whether it be 20 minutes or 30.

I have to agree with you. To your point, Dangerfield averaged 24 minutes per game. If she played 5 more minutes a game how much better would she have been? Would she have been an All-American? Talent and work ethic has everything to do with it. Maya Moore played 29 minutes per game as a freahman. Was she an All-American because of the extra 5 minutes per game? Even if she played 24 minutes a game she probably would have been an AA or at a minimum AA honorable mention.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm not sure what you are asking. There's little doubt about Dangerfield's talent in my eyes and seemingly not in Geno's. But it will help if she plays decent minutes and with the better players on the squad. Not sure playing in garbage time with the back of the bench as often as she did helped her development. In fact, her best overall stretch came when she started at two different times early and late in the season.

Yes.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks Danger will be at the back of the bench this upcoming year -- however I don't agree with you that this year that she was at the backend for the most part. Nor do I agree with you if she doesn't get more than 24 minutes like she got this year that she won't "develop" if that is what you are implying - regardless where those 24+ minutes come from. Is that what you are implying? She was the team's "6th man" and averaged over half-a-game playing time. That's not "back of the bench."

Also, you cited what Geno had said of her. Late in the season he was pleased with her for quite a bit. That's why he made the comments . He saw improvement. So she would have improved under his tutelage. If he didn't, would he have said such good things about her late?

Saniya Chong and Napheesa Collier were backend of the bench players - SC for 3 years and Collier her 1st year-- and the 1st game of the season each shined. Didn't that show they were "ready to play" even though they did not get big minutes the year before? How much did "lack of minutes" affect them?

In fact near the whole team never got big minutes in tight games before this year other than Kia-- and yet they wound up with three a/a's and were favored to win because they were regarded as the best team in the nation while ending up having n amazing year with a 36-1 record. Lack of minutes from the prior year didn't hurt their "development" vs nearly every other team in wcbb. Right out of the gate they beat the best.

 

[hoophuskee]

With Geno it is the other way around. You develop in practice. If you can't do it in practice, you won't do it in a game. Playing time is earned. No gimmes. Eleven national championships tell me Geno, CD, et al know how to develop their players.

I believe some posters make a huge mistake in the belief if you get minutes you will automatically help your team be better vs giving the extra minutes to the better player. I don't think the poster slu thinks this way but I think others do.

OFC they need some substitutions. But anyways Geno has proven he can win without a deep bench and has won with a deep bench. IMO we can question individual moves Geno makes but when one questions his philosophy- it gets kinda weird. Maybe we should blast Warren Buffett's investment strategy because he doesn't buy into small caps and advise that he should change his approach - that big dummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Nor do I agree with you if she doesn't get more than 24 minutes like she got this year that she won't "develop" if that is what you are implying - regardless where those 24+ minutes come from. Is that what you are implying? She was the team's "6th man" and averaged over half-a-game playing time. That's not "back of the bench."

I'm not suggesting a lack of minutes this past season will hurt Dangerfield. And, in truth, she got minutes this year but that was with a 9-player roster. Next year you're looking at 14 players and minutes will be hard to come by. If Dangerfield isn't entering until the 8+ minute mark, the minutes she needs with the main core/starters might not be there.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm not suggesting a lack of minutes this past season will hurt Dangerfield. And, in truth, she got minutes this year but that was with a 9-player roster. Next year you're looking at 14 players and minutes will be hard to come by. If Dangerfield isn't entering until the 8+ minute mark, the minutes she needs with the main core/starters might not be there.

I don't know about the 8 or 6 minute etc minute mark. And I think we can both agree that Geno has benched players for an entire game or half etc.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2014-2015/020715.html

So yes I agree minutes will be hard to come by -- but she is practicing against elite players on a daily basis. Then some games it may open up for her to play big minutes. Maybe not - we shall see. But the sea appears parted for her in her jr year

As for "needs by the 8 minute mark," it might enough for her too. Instead of blundering about two years playing for other teams 30- 35 minutes - and maybe taking a beating during games. She now gets physically stronger without the wear and tear of prior seasons while practicing against the best of the best.

 

[Los24]

The proposed question said both Stevens and Dangerfield MUST start. So since KLS's total game is not as good as Nurse, Collier, and Williams, she sits. Nurse has proved she is the better 3FG shooter as is Collier. I suppose you would sit Nurse since she is "only" an AA honorable mention even though she and Gabby are the team leaders?

Meyers posted the same objection to me. Here is my response to him and now you. "Thank you, I thought so! Brilliant! Yes, of course. Who are you going to sit in this never to happen hypothetical question with no correct answer or opinion?" Meyers, to his credit understands it is only a hypothetical question. He understands this is just a marking time question.

Why is it so unbelievable to sit probably the 5th best player on the team? Heh! Heh! I see a twitch near your left eye. A really fast one. Hell even Geno implied he would sit KLS if she did listen to coaching and improve her whole game. He said he had to play people this year, next year he will not have to play any given player.

Relax! Rest assured the starters WILL be Collier, Williams, Nurse, Stevens and Samuelson. Dangerfield and Camara will get plenty of minutes off the bench. Perhaps one or two of the freshmen will develop into positive contributors. So has the valium taken effect.

Lou's game is better than Kia's. She first team everything and Kia made some honorable mentions. All the writers got it wrong? Leading the league in scoring, having twice as many rebounds as Kia, more steals and blocks don't count. Plus she was the focus of the opposing team's defense most of the season. Dropped 40 in 27 mins in AAC Championship and was the only other person besides Gabby to show up against MS, where she shoot 50% and was second in scoring. Kia made 2 baskets.... Kia is great but not better than Lou. I think poll here reflects that most think that too.