Hypothetical: Z and Crystal Dangerfield Both Start - Who Doesn't?

[Sluconn Husky]

Your remark seems to suggest that when Crystal Dangerfield is good, she's very good but when she's bad, whew!!! Really awful!

She was a freshmen. Do you recall how Stewart and Jefferson's freshmen years went? Plenty of stinkers in there as well.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

CD has a lot of talent. Some of her passes knock me out. Some of her shots knock me out. Some of her hang out dribbling drives me crazy. Make no mistake, I want her to become the next great Husky PG. I'm just puzzled at what I see from her. Don't know what she is going through; just know that if it continues anon and anon she won't be the next great Husky PG. Tough Love: What Geno delivers in his own way. This year gave her a terrific challenge and opportunity. Her grade: a B-. I want her to hit it out of the park(mixed sports metaphor alert) come next year.

 

[j66kicker]

Not my opinion but I'm ready to read that in this scenario that some here would say KLS. Her critics continue saying she's soft and is a weak defender so that she is seemingly the weakest link insofar as Gabby and Pheesa are concerned. And then we have Kia whose three point shooting in the latter part of the season was through the roof and who is a staunch defender so that only leaves Katy Lou, right? I'm certainly not expressing my opinion because KLS is MY favorite Huskie but with all the innuendo I heard on the Boneyard, particularly over the past few weeks of this season, that's what I'm inclined to think will be posted!

Well, with 60 votes in, KLS is the least voted to not start, at 13%. Kia leads with 57%.

 

[hoophuskee]

The question isn't who will start; but rather how is Geno going to keep 11 excellent players satisfied with minutes; he has never been one to go too deep with the bench. Irwin, Bent and Butler might as well leave if they want to play any basketball next year.

That's not the question fo the thread. You have an agenda imo -- and it's weird. No offense to you. It's one thing to criticize some of Geno's moves. But you are on the borderline of criticzing an 11 time champion's philosophy and using over-exaggerrations like UCONN has 11 excellent players to make your prior point of a deep bench -- which I think is wrong.

 

[hoophuskee]

Dangerfield played extremely well at times too including a stretch at the end of the regular season and into the conference tourney. It was at that time that Geno was praising her upside and talking about her potentially being the next Olympic PG. Regardless, she needs court time to develop and the staff will have to determine if she will get enough coming off the bench.

Again. Why assume it has to do with minutes and not talent? You are speaking of her talent in your reply to me, are you not? She will get more court time. Sure.

 

[HopJim]

She was a freshmen. Do you recall how Stewart and Jefferson's freshmen years went? Plenty of stinkers in there as well.

Anyone remember how Jefferson got minutes? She was initially a great defender, only got points as her other skills developed. Curious why most posters only looking at offensive skills. With a very athletic group coming in, predict minutes for subs will be more based on lack of mistakes AND defense. Virtually everyone next year can put it up.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Again. Why assume it has to do with minutes and not talent? You are speaking of her talent in your reply to me, are you not? She will get more court time. Sure.

I'm not sure what you are asking. There's little doubt about Dangerfield's talent in my eyes and seemingly not in Geno's. But it will help if she plays decent minutes and with the better players on the squad. Not sure playing in garbage time with the back of the bench as often as she did helped her development. In fact, her best overall stretch came when she started at two different times early and late in the season.

 

[SVCBeercats]

I can assure you that if KLS played less minutes, you wouldn't see the same numbers from Collier and Gabby because the defenses would certainly focus on them more than they did this year. Forget assure. I can guarantee you that next season Collier and Williams will produce very similar numbers because their opponents' focus will be on Azura Stevens. Most people don't seem to realize the attention that KLS gets from the opposing defense. This was certainly true during the So. Carolina game where Allisha Gray shadowed KLS everywhere. But by season's end opponents realized, despite what the media were saying, they had to focus on Collier and Williams. These two were the consistent threats. I know this is just a hypothetical situation but the day that Crystal Dangerfield gets a start over KLS is a sad one in the annals of UConn women's basketball. I knew that there would be those who would name KLS because of all the different posts where Gabby or Pheesa were spoken of as POY type players while there was criticism of KLS being banged around, not strong enough and weak on defense. As I've mentioned, if others on this team were hammered game after game like KLS was, their performances would surely have been affected mightily. Yeah, Collier and Williams were not at all hammered by other posts, who were anywhere from 4 to 8 inches taller and 40 to 60 pounds heavier. No not at all. Who was bumping KLS around out beyond the arc? Yeah, posts have it easy. They don't have to take all the punishment guards get out on the perimeter. Riiiiiiight!

 

[SVCBeercats]

Dangerfield played extremely well at times too including a stretch at the end of the regular season and into the conference tourney. It was at that time that Geno was praising her upside and talking about her potentially being the next Olympic PG. Regardless, she needs court time to develop and the staff will have to determine if she will get enough coming off the bench.

With Geno it is the other way around. You develop in practice. If you can't do it in practice, you won't do it in a game. Playing time is earned. No gimmes. Eleven national championships tell me Geno, CD, et al know how to develop their players.

 

[SVCBeercats]

It should be also noted that she turned the corner her frosh year and started playing really well at the end of year. Why assume it was "the minutes" and not "the talent?" Therefore she would have been playing well whether it be 20 minutes or 30.

I have to agree with you. To your point, Dangerfield averaged 24 minutes per game. If she played 5 more minutes a game how much better would she have been? Would she have been an All-American? Talent and work ethic has everything to do with it. Maya Moore played 29 minutes per game as a freahman. Was she an All-American because of the extra 5 minutes per game? Even if she played 24 minutes a game she probably would have been an AA or at a minimum AA honorable mention.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm not sure what you are asking. There's little doubt about Dangerfield's talent in my eyes and seemingly not in Geno's. But it will help if she plays decent minutes and with the better players on the squad. Not sure playing in garbage time with the back of the bench as often as she did helped her development. In fact, her best overall stretch came when she started at two different times early and late in the season.

Yes.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks Danger will be at the back of the bench this upcoming year -- however I don't agree with you that this year that she was at the backend for the most part. Nor do I agree with you if she doesn't get more than 24 minutes like she got this year that she won't "develop" if that is what you are implying - regardless where those 24+ minutes come from. Is that what you are implying? She was the team's "6th man" and averaged over half-a-game playing time. That's not "back of the bench."

Also, you cited what Geno had said of her. Late in the season he was pleased with her for quite a bit. That's why he made the comments . He saw improvement. So she would have improved under his tutelage. If he didn't, would he have said such good things about her late?

Saniya Chong and Napheesa Collier were backend of the bench players - SC for 3 years and Collier her 1st year-- and the 1st game of the season each shined. Didn't that show they were "ready to play" even though they did not get big minutes the year before? How much did "lack of minutes" affect them?

In fact near the whole team never got big minutes in tight games before this year other than Kia-- and yet they wound up with three a/a's and were favored to win because they were regarded as the best team in the nation while ending up having n amazing year with a 36-1 record. Lack of minutes from the prior year didn't hurt their "development" vs nearly every other team in wcbb. Right out of the gate they beat the best.

 

[hoophuskee]

With Geno it is the other way around. You develop in practice. If you can't do it in practice, you won't do it in a game. Playing time is earned. No gimmes. Eleven national championships tell me Geno, CD, et al know how to develop their players.

I believe some posters make a huge mistake in the belief if you get minutes you will automatically help your team be better vs giving the extra minutes to the better player. I don't think the poster slu thinks this way but I think others do.

OFC they need some substitutions. But anyways Geno has proven he can win without a deep bench and has won with a deep bench. IMO we can question individual moves Geno makes but when one questions his philosophy- it gets kinda weird. Maybe we should blast Warren Buffett's investment strategy because he doesn't buy into small caps and advise that he should change his approach - that big dummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Nor do I agree with you if she doesn't get more than 24 minutes like she got this year that she won't "develop" if that is what you are implying - regardless where those 24+ minutes come from. Is that what you are implying? She was the team's "6th man" and averaged over half-a-game playing time. That's not "back of the bench."

I'm not suggesting a lack of minutes this past season will hurt Dangerfield. And, in truth, she got minutes this year but that was with a 9-player roster. Next year you're looking at 14 players and minutes will be hard to come by. If Dangerfield isn't entering until the 8+ minute mark, the minutes she needs with the main core/starters might not be there.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm not suggesting a lack of minutes this past season will hurt Dangerfield. And, in truth, she got minutes this year but that was with a 9-player roster. Next year you're looking at 14 players and minutes will be hard to come by. If Dangerfield isn't entering until the 8+ minute mark, the minutes she needs with the main core/starters might not be there.

I don't know about the 8 or 6 minute etc minute mark. And I think we can both agree that Geno has benched players for an entire game or half etc.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2014-2015/020715.html

So yes I agree minutes will be hard to come by -- but she is practicing against elite players on a daily basis. Then some games it may open up for her to play big minutes. Maybe not - we shall see. But the sea appears parted for her in her jr year

As for "needs by the 8 minute mark," it might enough for her too. Instead of blundering about two years playing for other teams 30- 35 minutes - and maybe taking a beating during games. She now gets physically stronger without the wear and tear of prior seasons while practicing against the best of the best.

 

[Los24]

The proposed question said both Stevens and Dangerfield MUST start. So since KLS's total game is not as good as Nurse, Collier, and Williams, she sits. Nurse has proved she is the better 3FG shooter as is Collier. I suppose you would sit Nurse since she is "only" an AA honorable mention even though she and Gabby are the team leaders?

Meyers posted the same objection to me. Here is my response to him and now you. "Thank you, I thought so! Brilliant! Yes, of course. Who are you going to sit in this never to happen hypothetical question with no correct answer or opinion?" Meyers, to his credit understands it is only a hypothetical question. He understands this is just a marking time question.

Why is it so unbelievable to sit probably the 5th best player on the team? Heh! Heh! I see a twitch near your left eye. A really fast one. Hell even Geno implied he would sit KLS if she did listen to coaching and improve her whole game. He said he had to play people this year, next year he will not have to play any given player.

Relax! Rest assured the starters WILL be Collier, Williams, Nurse, Stevens and Samuelson. Dangerfield and Camara will get plenty of minutes off the bench. Perhaps one or two of the freshmen will develop into positive contributors. So has the valium taken effect.

Lou's game is better than Kia's. She first team everything and Kia made some honorable mentions. All the writers got it wrong? Leading the league in scoring, having twice as many rebounds as Kia, more steals and blocks don't count. Plus she was the focus of the opposing team's defense most of the season. Dropped 40 in 27 mins in AAC Championship and was the only other person besides Gabby to show up against MS, where she shoot 50% and was second in scoring. Kia made 2 baskets.... Kia is great but not better than Lou. I think poll here reflects that most think that too.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Lou's game is better than Kia's. She first team everything and Kia made some honorable mentions. All the writers got it wrong? In my book? Yep, they do. Leading the league in scoring Leading what league in scoring?

, having twice as many rebounds as Kia, more steals and blocks don't count.
KLS also beat Kia in turnovers and fouls. Kia is the better 3FG shooter and free throw shooter. Oh, and she actually plays defense. Kia and Gabby are the team leaders on the court.
Plus she was the focus of the opposing team's defense most of the season. Until the opposition realized she is a streaky shooter and Collier and Williams are the players to worry about. Defense? Ole! Dropped 40 in 27 mins in AAC Championship One game does not a season make. and was the only other person besides Gabby to show up against MS, where she shoot 50% and was second in scoring. Kia made 2 baskets.... How many points did she allow? Kia is great but not better than Lou. I think poll here reflects that most think that too. Opinion is not fact. We all deal for the most part in opinions and favoritism. It will be interesting if Stevens is as good as I think she is. And if Dangerfield and Walker by January, 2018 are playing as most people believe they will. Who starts and who plays the most minutes will be fun the watch. The minutes distribution will be interesting. As long as they are the national champs again. That is all that matters.

 

[happymonsters]

Lou has one more foul than Kia. Is that even statistically significant?

 

[hoophuskee]

And if Dangerfield and Walker by January, 2018 are playing as most people believe they will. Who starts and who plays the most minutes will be fun the watch.

Depending on injuries-- if all are healthy it will be "anti-climatic."

Here is the starting 5 next year and imo it's pretty obvious:

Stevens, Collier, Lou, Gabby and Nurse.

Danger and Walker have little shot to overtake any of these 5.

 

[SVCBeercats]

And if Dangerfield and Walker by January, 2018 are playing as most people believe they will. Who starts and who plays the most minutes will be fun the watch.

Depending on injuries-- if all are healthy it will be "anti-climatic."

Here is the starting 5 next year and imo it's pretty obvious:

Stevens, Collier, Lou, Gabby and Nurse.

Danger and Walker have little shot to overtake any of these 5.

Nah! Can't be so. It's too obvious. It's too logical. But you have said it correctly; it is what will happen.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Lou has one more foul than Kia. Is that even statistically significant?

Is 10 blocks versus 3 blocks statistically significant? Of course, not! I was merely responding in like with tongue in cheek. If I said it to someone's face I would allow a smile to creep across my face waiting for them to realize what they said was equally weak. But I don't know how to do that in writing. Perhaps I should have used the roll your eyes emoticon. My bad. Statistics are good. How they are used ... well. When stats are cited, due diligence is always required ... as you just proved and as I did when I noticed the insignificance of 10 vs. 3 blocks.

 

[the Q]

I'm not sure how well gabby pheesa and z will play together in the same lineup unless their 3 balls get better.

I'm concerned that Crystal Dangerfield couldn't supplant Chong. That had to be at least a moderate red flag. Especially when she was the only true Pg on the roster.

 

[hugefan]

It's funny how the same poster/posters love to trash the same player, ignoring the performances of the biggest game of the year. I guess all the stats in the world didn't help in this game on all fronts. Poster/posters can spin like a top in a tornado but that's all it is, at the end of the day in the biggest game of the year you could rate who disappeared the most and trying to spin the whole season to hide that is laughable.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm not sure how well gabby pheesa and z will play together in the same lineup unless their 3 balls get better.

I'm concerned that Crystal Dangerfield couldn't supplant Chong. That had to be at least a moderate red flag. Especially when she was the only true Pg on the roster.

Wow imo you are being way way way too too too negative.

First off -- Collier shot 43% from 3. That is tremendous. Why are you ignoring her 3pt%? I would have agreed a bit if you question how well she could pass the ball on the perimeter and drive against quicker players without committing offensive fouls now that she isn't going against centers at times.

Secondly, a red flag from Danger because she couldn't beat out a senior who at least offensively shooting 47% from the floor while shooting 40% from 3 while being 2nd on the team in assists and having over a 3-1 assist ratio? She may very well land a spot overseas and you're "red-flagging" a freshmen for not beating her out? You've got to be kidding.

Man-- maybe it's your overrating of freshmen that is off. Not as much Danger.

It's one thing for you to say that you don't want to be a homer. Another comptletely when you go extreme the other way.

 

[the Q]

Wow imo you are being way way way too too too negative.

First off -- Collier shot 43% from 3. That is tremendous. Why are you ignoring her 3pt%? I would have agreed a bit if you question how well she could pass the ball on the perimeter and drive against quicker players without committing offensive fouls now that she isn't going against centers at times.

Secondly, a red flag from Danger because she couldn't beat out a senior who at least offensively shooting 47% from the floor while shooting 40% from 3 while being 2nd on the team in assists and having over a 3-1 assist ratio? She may very well land a spot overseas and you're "red-flagging" a freshmen for not beating her out? You've got to be kidding.

Man-- maybe it's your overrating of freshmen that is off. Not as much Danger.

It's one thing for you to say that you don't want to be a homer. Another comptletely when you go extreme the other way.

True, but could she do that playing the wing full time? She'd be in more of a nurse or kml type role on offense if she was playing outside more so gabby and z could play more of the the 4/5 roles offensively.

Although that also could just mean they all get more rest as well (which you have to think is likely).

I do think she's the most likely to be able to do that.

But frankly, does it matter who starts? It's gonna matter who's closing out games anyway. This just gives geno the flexibility to play multiple ways as need be.

 

[JordyG]

I'll just repeat myself. The question isn't which players won't start. The question is who will start in the backcourt between Lou and Gabby. Unless Crystal Dangerfield's sophomore leap is gigantic she comes off the bench for the year. AZ will start.