Hurley on next year's team | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Hurley on next year's team

Walker11 said:
I won't be surprised if this team makes the sweet 16 or if we barely make the NIT. There is a huge level of variance depending on how good the rookies are. Occasionally mid to low 4* are borderline all league caliber immediately and sometimes they take 2 or 3 years to be good.
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I would be absolutely shocked if they made the sweet 16 tbh. But I get your point.
 
Walker11 said:
4 out is nearly ubiquitous. You sound like Barkley claiming a jump shooting team will never win a championship. The ideal 4 can switch, protect the rim, rebound, and shoot from outside. We may have one of the few who has all attributes once he puts it together.
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Look at the teams in the Elite Eight - As I recall, they all had guys who could rebound and defend in the paint.
 
tcf15 said:
Dan Hurley is glad the Bobby Hurley drama is over | Zagsblog
Hurley is looking for the incoming freshmen to play key roles.

“We love their talent, skills and upside but there’s a reason why most of the teams that do really, really well in college are older, so there’ll be some tough nights and some learning experiences,” he said. “But positionally in terms of their talent I thought we got two guys [Bouknight and Gaffney] who could be as good a tandem as anyone will have down the road.”

Akok joined the team for practice in January and will suit up this fall.

“You got that stretch four man that can block shots and is super-athletic and can make threes,” he said. “You have to have a four man that can spread the court around the one big and three other skilled perimeter people because that’s the style I like coaching and the way the game is heading.”
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I guess Chief did not turn off Cliff with that urinal conversation after all. My other observation is Danny Hurley needs to take a shower after that picture with Calipari.
 
JMick said:
Couldn't agree more. If we're counting, next season hinges on AG's health, Akok's impact, Carlton's progression, Wilson and/or Polley's progression, and an emergence from Diarra or Whaley, and the impact of our two new guards.

Any predictions for next season are futile. I haven't felt this unsure of where to set expectations in a long time.
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Next year hinges on AG staying healthy and making a jump along with the impact of the three freshmen and the progression of Carlton. You hope the light flicks on for Sid because the talent is there. I think we kind of know what we're getting with the rest.
 
This IG post by AG brought a smile to my face.
C1CC5539-5691-4AFF-89C9-D7F1859A2E27.png
 
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Chief00 said:
Unless you have a Dre, which we don’t, Chief doesn’t buy the 4 out and 1 in thing.
For our talent you need two dudes regularly going to the boards on offense. Often one creates disruptions and the other gets the ball. Poor offensive rebounding was one reason we lost last season. In several key games our opponents killed us in that category. We have no one guy who is going to change that statistic that makes us lose.
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You're right that our opponents got too many offensive rebounds, and we still have room for improvement grabbing our own offensive boards, but we did take a huge step forward last year compared to the KO era. Here is our offensive rebounding percentage for as for back as KenPom.com goes, with our national rank in parenthesis.

2002: 39.7% (18)
2003: 40.7% (3)
2004: 40.8% (3)
2005: 41.7% (2)
2006: 41.6% (3)
2007: 40.5% (4)
2008: 38.4% (11)
2009: 40.1% (5)
2010: 37.8% (19)
2011: 37.2% (7)
2012: 36.5% (23)
2013: 28.5% (278)
2014: 30.3% (210)
2015: 30.1% (200)
2016: 28.6% (209)
2017: 29.9% (148)
2018: 29.4% (144)
2019: 32.3% (54)
 
ToolzieFan said:
You're right that our opponents got too many offensive rebounds, and we still have room for improvement grabbing our own offensive boards, but we did take a huge step forward last year compared to the KO era. Here is our offensive rebounding percentage for as for back as KenPom.com goes, with our national rank in parenthesis.

2002: 39.7% (18)
2003: 40.7% (3)
2004: 40.8% (3)
2005: 41.7% (2)
2006: 41.6% (3)
2007: 40.5% (4)
2008: 38.4% (11)
2009: 40.1% (5)
2010: 37.8% (19)
2011: 37.2% (7)
2012: 36.5% (23)
2013: 28.5% (278)
2014: 30.3% (210)
2015: 30.1% (200)
2016: 28.6% (209)
2017: 29.9% (148)
2018: 29.4% (144)
2019: 32.3% (54)
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Good research to back up Chief’s eye test. It’s a good lesson for those who fall in love with offensive highlight videos, which you could even create from a 25 point loss. Of course, the numbers would be even more noteworthy if you excluded cupcake games. What concerns me with the First Night Casual Fans is they seem to believe that offensive rebounding is too messy for today’s game. Except for 2014 when we had an exceptional shooting team and an outstanding PG, there is a huge correlation between offensive rebounding and winning.

I wonder if Coach Hurley told Cliff to take a shower after he met with Calipari? I would have.
 
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Chief00 said:
Good research to back up Chief’s eye test. It’s a good lesson for those who fall in love with offensive highlight videos, which you could even create from a 25 point loss. Of course, the numbers would be even more noteworthy if you excluded cupcake games. What concerns me with the First Night Casual Fans is they seem to believe that offensive rebounding is too messy for today’s game. Except for 2014 when we had an exceptional shooting team and an outstanding PG, there is a huge correlation between offensive rebounding and winning.

I wonder if Coach Hurley told Cliff to take a shower after he met with Calipari? I would have.
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Our lack of offensive rebounding from 2013-2018 was clearly a part of of the reason we struggled. Still, it's worth noting that even without a lot of quality bigs, we hit the offensive boards much better last year. Hurley has to get credit for that. It gives me confidence that we'll continue to improve in the area.
 
At this point is it safe to say everyone is coming back next year? Was hoping a couple might move on
 
Huskyfan4evr said:
At this point is it safe to say everyone is coming back next year? Was hoping a couple might move on
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It seems like that but it’s not necessarily a given. In (fairly) recent years guys like Roscoe and Tolksdorf announced they were leaving later than this point in the year.
 
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ToolzieFan said:
You're right that our opponents got too many offensive rebounds, and we still have room for improvement grabbing our own offensive boards, but we did take a huge step forward last year compared to the KO era. Here is our offensive rebounding percentage for as for back as KenPom.com goes, with our national rank in parenthesis.

2002: 39.7% (18)
2003: 40.7% (3)
2004: 40.8% (3)
2005: 41.7% (2)
2006: 41.6% (3)
2007: 40.5% (4)
2008: 38.4% (11)
2009: 40.1% (5)
2010: 37.8% (19)
2011: 37.2% (7)
2012: 36.5% (23)
2013: 28.5% (278)
2014: 30.3% (210)
2015: 30.1% (200)
2016: 28.6% (209)
2017: 29.9% (148)
2018: 29.4% (144)
2019: 32.3% (54)
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Tom Moore’s QU teams were consistently top 15 in offensive rebounding percentage, too. I think we’ll continue to improve in this category.

Edit: 8 straight years (09-16) QU was top 10 in KenPom offensive rebounding percentage.
 
ToolzieFan said:
You're right that our opponents got too many offensive rebounds, and we still have room for improvement grabbing our own offensive boards, but we did take a huge step forward last year compared to the KO era. Here is our offensive rebounding percentage for as for back as KenPom.com goes, with our national rank in parenthesis.

2002: 39.7% (18)
2003: 40.7% (3)
2004: 40.8% (3)
2005: 41.7% (2)
2006: 41.6% (3)
2007: 40.5% (4)
2008: 38.4% (11)
2009: 40.1% (5)
2010: 37.8% (19)
2011: 37.2% (7)
2012: 36.5% (23)
2013: 28.5% (278)
2014: 30.3% (210)
2015: 30.1% (200)
2016: 28.6% (209)
2017: 29.9% (148)
2018: 29.4% (144)
2019: 32.3% (54)
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Toolzie I am curious to see what Virginia’s offensive rebounding numbers are in the last 5 years of so. I was under the impression their strategy is to retreat to prevent fast breaks. I could be wrong.

Personally I could not stand how we gave up on offensive rebounds pre Hurley.
To me is is indicative of lack of motivation , heart and coaching.
I actually think Hurley’s teams have to show a lot more in that area. Particularly Polley.
 
Chief00 said:
Good research to back up Chief’s eye test. It’s a good lesson for those who fall in love with offensive highlight videos, which you could even create from a 25 point loss. Of course, the numbers would be even more noteworthy if you excluded cupcake games. What concerns me with the First Night Casual Fans is they seem to believe that offensive rebounding is too messy for today’s game. Except for 2014 when we had an exceptional shooting team and an outstanding PG, there is a huge correlation between offensive rebounding and winning.

I wonder if Coach Hurley told Cliff to take a shower after he met with Calipari? I would have.
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Who in this world has said offensive rebounding is too messy for today's game? Come on man.
 
Chief00 said:
You can’t offensive rebound and promote 4 out 1 in offense.
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Yes you can.

It is 2019. Every intelligent coach in America is recruiting to put 4+ shooters o the floor.

Long shots = long rebounds. Much easier to get offensive boards.

Also, analytics show that offensive rebounding isn't nearly as important.as stopping the transition against most teams. Sending 2 or 3 back and not crashing is a good thing.

Also important to think of personnel. I would never tell Vital to not crash from the perimeter. He has a real knack for the ball.
 
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Chief00 said:
I guess Chief did not turn off Cliff with that urinal conversation after all. My other observation is Danny Hurley needs to take a shower after that picture with Calipari.
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What I noticed about teams deep in the tournament is they had a minimum of 4 guys who could catch the ball outside and be a threat to shoot drive or pass.

We had 2 guys who could dribble the ball twice without turning it over by the end of the year.
 
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Chief00 said:
You can’t offensive rebound and promote 4 out 1 in offense.
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If we make shots at a high clip cuts offensive rebounding needs down. Chief has watched us miss so many shots that we need to offensive rebound the offensive rebound we missed.
 
uchusky32 said:
If we make shots at a high clip cuts offensive rebounding needs down. Chief has watched us miss so many shots that we need to offensive rebound the offensive rebound we missed.
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Good shooting makes the game easier and builds confidence across the board. However, not even good shooters shoot well every game. Quite frankly, you need other tools in your toolbox.
 
ToolzieFan said:
Our lack of offensive rebounding from 2013-2018 was clearly a part of of the reason we struggled.
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It was a feature, not a bug. We were far more concerned with getting back and stopping transition buckets.
 
Rewster said:
Toolzie I am curious to see what Virginia’s offensive rebounding numbers are in the last 5 years of so. I was under the impression their strategy is to retreat to prevent fast breaks. I could be wrong.

Personally I could not stand how we gave up on offensive rebounds pre Hurley.
To me is is indicative of lack of motivation , heart and coaching.
I actually think Hurley’s teams have to show a lot more in that area. Particularly Polley.
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The last 5 years their OREB was ranked 150, 234, 272, 281, 144. So at best average and usually close to worst in the country
 
husky429 said:
Yes you can.

It is 2019. Every intelligent coach in America is recruiting to put 4+ shooters o the floor.

Long shots = long rebounds. Much easier to get offensive boards.

Also, analytics show that offensive rebounding isn't nearly as important.as stopping the transition against most teams. Sending 2 or 3 back and not crashing is a good thing.

Also important to think of personnel. I would never tell Vital to not crash from the perimeter. He has a real knack for the ball.
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Yes, this is the trend. NBA especially. You’ll see most teams retreat on the shot and not even go for offensive rebounds. But, those teams have very efficient shooters. They don’t miss all that often and yes, get some long rebounds.

There’s a real question as to whether college teams have the ability to play that way on a consistent basis. Nova did with their last NC team, with an extraordinary level of talent. Their sixth man was a first round pick. Honestly, thinking back 2014 UConn played that way. Stifling half court D, and never allowed transition. They didn’t get many offensive boards.

On the other hand. Anybody who showed up right now with the kind of post game that the Ewing Georgetown teams had would be all but unstoppable by these modern teams. They’d rebound and score inside almost at will. Look at the leap USF made last year. To my eye test they did it by going old school and being bigger and more physical than everyone they played, even though their skill and talent level was low. There are lots of ways to win. Shooters are in great demand. Traditional post players are currently undervalued.
 
lange10 said:
Tom Moore’s QU teams were consistently top 15 in offensive rebounding percentage, too. I think we’ll continue to improve in this category.

Edit: 8 straight years (09-16) QU was top 10 in KenPom offensive rebounding percentage.
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2011: 18-11
2012: 15-16
2013: 20-12
2014: 15-15
2016: 9-21
2017: 10-21

This is Tom's record over the last six seasons at Quinnipiac. When taken in combination with Ken Pom's numbers on offensive rebounding percentage combined with the numbers for Virginia this season the argument can be made that Chief is overstating the importance of offensive rebounding as a must have.
It's a potential for winning games, depending on many other factors.

Although it is the ideal it will be rare that a team can have strengths at every aspect of the game and no weaknesses. Outside of an elite (perhaps cheating) few, most coaches will try to recruit players that they believe will give them a tactical advantage against other teams because they cannot be assured which of the players they are recruiting will commit.

As an example:
The full court press employed during "The Dream Season" was successful for a variety of reasons. But imo the major reason was Nadov's ability to anticipate and intercept passes when we trapped opposing players. Henefeld was not the most athletic player UConn has had at his position. But he certainly was one of the most cerebral. We have had quicker players since that season. But we never had a cerebral player to complement the quickness of the guards trapping opposing players. Hence the full court press has never been as sucessful.
 
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I’m still old school where I like having the power 4 and true 5 . I agree with Chiefs points and others on the need for rebounding and the recent comment from HuskyHawk.
Control rebounding and you for the most part control offensive time of possession,offensive and defensive second chance opportunity’s,shot attempts, fast break opportunity’s. I think we have decent perimeter play now which will help the inside game. We just need another banger or two.
 
Mister P said:
I’m still old school where I like having the power 4 and true 5 . I agree with Chiefs points and others on the need for rebounding and the recent comment from HuskyHawk.
Control rebounding and you for the most part control offensive time of possession,offensive and defensive second chance opportunity’s,shot attempts, fast break opportunity’s. I think we have decent perimeter play now which will help the inside game. We just need another banger or two.
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Good luck losing then :p

35% 3 point shooter. = pretty good
53% 2 point shooter = close to excellent

Worth the same amount of points come game time. Much easier to win with shooters on the perimeter.
 
Mister P said:
I’m still old school where I like having the power 4 and true 5 . I agree with Chiefs points and others on the need for rebounding and the recent comment from HuskyHawk.
Control rebounding and you for the most part control offensive time of possession,offensive and defensive second chance opportunity’s,shot attempts, fast break opportunity’s. I think we have decent perimeter play now which will help the inside game. We just need another banger or two.
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I’m of the Bill Belichick school. Build a team that can play any way you need to, in order to win the game. Dominate a smaller team with a post game, shot blocking and board work, sure. Press,trap and run, sure. Bomb away from 3 and play great half court D, sign me up. Exploit the matchups. Versatile players are the key to that, and Akok is ideal in that regard. If Sid could shoot and dribble a little better, he’d be devastating against the average 6’2 guard. Precious has that game already.

The challenge teams like Cinci have in the tournament is that they aren’t versatile. They run into a bad matchup for their style, or refs unfriendly to their style and they are done. Look at what success we had late in the year feeding Josh. Even with a meh perimeter game and no true PF, teams weren’t equipped to stop it. Throw out a front line of Josh, Akok and Precious and good luck to the opposing D in stopping that.
 
HuskyHawk said:
I’m of the Bill Belichick school. Build a team that can play any way you need to, in order to win the game. Dominate a smaller team with a post game, shot blocking and board work, sure. Press,trap and run, sure. Bomb away from 3 and play great half court D, sign me up. Exploit the matchups. Versatile players are the key to that, and Akok is ideal in that regard. If Sid could shoot and dribble a little better, he’d be devastating against the average 6’2 guard. Precious has that game already.

The challenge teams like Cinci have in the tournament is that they aren’t versatile. They run into a bad matchup for their style, or refs unfriendly to their style and they are done. Look at what success we had late in the year feeding Josh. Even with a meh perimeter game and no true PF, teams weren’t equipped to stop it. Throw out a front line of Josh, Akok and Precious and good luck to the opposing D in stopping that.
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These types of players are 1 and done. We don't have that option. Develop a team identity, recruit to it, and get really good with it.

See texas tech and virginia.
 
tzznandrew said:
It was a feature, not a bug. We were far more concerned with getting back and stopping transition buckets.
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It's clear that outstanding offensive rebounding was a key component of our success under Calhoun. But it's fair to wonder if that game has changed enough since then (lots of threes, more versatile big men) that being an elite offensive rebounding team is less important. Could it be generally true that teams who are effective at shooting don't need as many offensive rebounds, while teams who shoot poorly need to crash the boards more? Maybe someone who has followed basketball analytics longer than me knows better. I suppose whatever strategy/skill set gets you the most points per possession is best.
 
ToolzieFan said:
It's clear that outstanding offensive rebounding was a key component of our success under Calhoun. But it's fair to wonder if that game has changed enough since then (lots of threes, more versatile big men) that being an elite offensive rebounding team is less important. Could it be generally true that teams who are effective at shooting don't need as many offensive rebounds, while teams who shoot poorly need to crash the boards more? Maybe someone who has followed basketball analytics longer than me knows better. I suppose whatever strategy/skill set gets you the most points per possession is best.
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Was thinking similarly. If you're a poor shooting team, it's a difficult strategy to employ. Offensive possessions with an outside shot become practically turnovers.

Hard to win with little perimeter shooting in today's game. One of the main reasons KO's teams weren't very successful, is that he failed to recruit superior outside shooters.
 
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