Humongous win for the program | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Humongous win for the program

UConnDan97 said:
Actually, you can continue to talk about it until you take 7 losses (and even then with how many bowls there are, you never know).

I swear I will never understand the need for some to try to "put the brakes" on fans being excited... on a fan site!
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Excitement is good. Disappointment is good. Irrational excitement leads to irrational disappointment and that has consequences when administrations act on irrational disappointment.

What is irrational disappointment? Things like Wisconsin firing Paul Chryst. They have an irrational belief in what they are, and then they fire a guy who did a good job there.
 
JohnFSilver said:
What is irrational disappointment? Things like Wisconsin firing Paul Chryst. They have an irrational belief in what they are, and then they fire a guy who did a good job there.
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It’s more about programs being aspirational, rather than irrational. They should want to challenge OSU and Michigan. Why not try to be elite. I believe there are other coaches out there who can take the Badgers to the next level. Chryst was a plodding, boring guy. He wasn’t a good enough recruiter for where they want to go. For example—you don’t think a Ryan Day or Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Madison? There are better coaches than Chryst out there for UW--and certainly better ones for Colorado than Karl Dorrell. I applaud both administrations for acting. Now they have to choose wisely.
 
Nostical said:
It’s more about programs being aspirational, rather than irrational. They should want to challenge OSU and Michigan. Why not try to be elite. I believe there are other coaches out there who can take the Badgers to the next level. Chryst was a plodding, boring guy. He wasn’t a good enough recruiter for where they want to go. For example—you don’t think a Ryan Day or Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Madison? There are better coaches than Chryst out there for UW--and certainly better ones for Colorado than Karl Dorrell. I applaud both administrations for acting. Now they have to choose wisely.
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Can you get a Ryan Day or Lincoln Riley there?



Nebraska was aspirational too when they fired Bo Pelini and before that Frank Solich. Hasn't exactly worked out for them.
 
Nostical said:
It’s more about programs being aspirational, rather than irrational. They should want to challenge OSU and Michigan. Why not try to be elite. I believe there are other coaches out there who can take the Badgers to the next level. Chryst was a plodding, boring guy. He wasn’t a good enough recruiter for where they want to go. For example—you don’t think a Ryan Day or Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Madison? There are better coaches than Chryst out there for UW--and certainly better ones for Colorado than Karl Dorrell. I applaud both administrations for acting. Now they have to choose wisely.
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These programs that have not really been major powers, Wisconsin, Colorado, or have pretty much fallen out of that level, like Nebraska, all think they can get there but I’m not sure they ever will. Nebraska and Miami are sort of the poster children for programs that lost there way when they left for new leagues. The Huskers recruited the southwest, especially Texas, for skill players. In the Big 10, that connection was lost. Kids from Texas went to Nebraska knowing they’d play 2-4 games in front of the home folks each year.
 
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freescooter said:
These programs that have not really been major powers, Wisconsin, Colorado, or have pretty much fallen out of that level, like Nebraska, all think they can get there but I’m not sure they ever will. Nebraska and Miami are sort of the poster children for programs that lost there way when they left for new leagues. The Huskers recruited the southwest, especially Texas, for skill players. In the Big 10, that connection was lost. Kids from Texas went to Nebraska knowing they’d play 2-4 games in front of the home folks each year.
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Nebraska didn't play many games in Texas until they joined the Big 12 in 1996. They were in the Big 8 conference which was Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa St., Colorado, Missouri, Kansas St., Oklahoma St. They have played over 85 games against Iowa St., Oklahoma, Kansas St., Missouri, and Kansas. They have played 62 games against Minnesota and 52 against Iowa. The most games they have played against teams from Texas are 14 against both Texas and Texas A&M, most coming when they were in the Big 12.

As for recruiting, I checked the 1994 national championship roster. Six were from Texas and none were offensive skill players and one was a DB. The vast majority of the roster was from Nebraska (especially walk-ons), and 12 were from California, and 5 each from Florida, New Jersey, and Missouri.

I think the structural problem that Nebraska has faced is that when they were on a roll (primarily before they joined the Big 12), they were always on TV because they were one of the top teams and there weren't many games shown on TV. Nebraska recruited nationally due to name recognition and accomplishments. Now, Nebraska does not hold the same cache with recruits or college football fans in general. I think they can be a perennial top 25 team, but I don't think they can win a national championship anymore.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Excitement is good. Disappointment is good. Irrational excitement leads to irrational disappointment and that has consequences when administrations act on irrational disappointment.

What is irrational disappointment? Things like Wisconsin firing Paul Chryst. They have an irrational belief in what they are, and then they fire a guy who did a good job there.
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Irrational excitement is literally the definition of a fan, since the word "fan" is short for fanatic.

It's okay to be irrational. Irrational is what makes people spend money to see other people run around on grass. Fans don't root for sports teams to be rational. Try it sometime... you might like it...
 
Palatine said:
Hey be careful, you could be labeled " irrationally exuberant."
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Given the current economy and the market, I am pining away for those days of irrational exuberance.
 
Chin Diesel said:
Yes, but these were WAC homers. Kinda pissed me off.
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The Game was on CBS Sports Network and it was probably the H-team broadcast crew, but there was no overt west coast basis.

Meghan McPeak is a Canadian play-by play announcer, known for WNBA, G-League games out of Washington DC. Christian Fauria is a former NFL tight end, and co-host of the evening drive on WEEI, Boston. He used to do the sidelines for Patriots preseason games. Evidently he graduated to color.
 
Madmannsucks said:
Whatever....it isn't dreaming. It's putting unrealistic expectations on the team which has 1 FBS win in 3 years. Then bashing them when they do not live up to said expectations.
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This is an entirely different program, almost literally, than the '19 version. Different coach, schemes, players, philosophy. The ability to set reasonable expectations, yet strive for a goal seemingly just outside attainability is not so unusual. I'm never in favor of telling a fan base how to fan, unless they are negative to the point of questioning why they follow a given team.
 
businesslawyer said:
To paraphrase our fearless leader's father: Bowl game? You're talking bowl game?

I'm listening to the horse begging everyone to not put the cart in front of it. That was an unbelievable win yesterday, even if you ignore that we hadn't beaten a real football team for five long years. But it doesn't erase the games we had played prior to yesterday either. Could we at least beat one of the worst teams in the FBS Saturday night before people start talking about bowl games please?
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Could we at least beat one of the worst teams in the FBS Saturday night before people start talking about bowl games please?
No-hand.jpg
 
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Great win. As some are noting here, there is still a long way to go. Not to mention that this team has just been decimated with injuries. I have to believe the rest of this season continues to be bumpy. What I am most encouraged about is that Mora kept this team focused and motivated after the brutal start to the season. That tells me he knows how to lead. Given his resume you have to assume he knows the Xs and Os. Given some time he'll continue to take the talent level up. It will be interesting to see what he does the next couple of seasons.
 
Last road win vs non- UMess team was almost exactly 5 years ago. Let’s break that streak before we plan December travel.
 
Nostical said:
It’s more about programs being aspirational, rather than irrational. They should want to challenge OSU and Michigan. Why not try to be elite. I believe there are other coaches out there who can take the Badgers to the next level. Chryst was a plodding, boring guy. He wasn’t a good enough recruiter for where they want to go. For example—you don’t think a Ryan Day or Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Madison? There are better coaches than Chryst out there for UW--and certainly better ones for Colorado than Karl Dorrell. I applaud both administrations for acting. Now they have to choose wisely.
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Do I think Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Wisconsin? No. I do not. Chryst was good at Wisconsin. Not elite. They aren't an elite football program.

Saban, to me is greatest college coach of all time. What was his record at Michigan State again? He won one bowl game in five years there.

We'll see who Wisconsin gets. But, Nebraska thought Scott Frost was a HR hire. What a trainwreck. They aren't who they think they are.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Do I think Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Wisconsin? No. I do not. Chryst was good at Wisconsin. Not elite. They aren't an elite football program.

Saban, to me is greatest college coach of all time. What was his record at Michigan State again? He won one bowl game in five years there.

We'll see who Wisconsin gets. But, Nebraska thought Scott Frost was a HR hire. What a trainwreck. They aren't who they think they are.
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This is my view too. They might be Iowa. A chance to win if Michigan and Ohio State both have off years. Good, not great.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Do I think Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Wisconsin? No. I do not. Chryst was good at Wisconsin. Not elite. They aren't an elite football program.

Saban, to me is greatest college coach of all time. What was his record at Michigan State again? He won one bowl game in five years there.

We'll see who Wisconsin gets. But, Nebraska thought Scott Frost was a HR hire. What a trainwreck. They aren't who they think they are.
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Well said. Too many folks think that because they can take good but not great programs to championships on video games, it should be just as possible in real life.
 
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JohnFSilver said:
Do I think Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Wisconsin? No. I do not. Chryst was good at Wisconsin. Not elite. They aren't an elite football program.
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That’s a pretty cynical view. There’s no reason Wisconsin can’t become competitive with Michigan, Penn State and Ohio St. Consider the fact that heretofore, their uninspiring coaches haven’t recruited a QB like CJ Stroud. Put him on Wisconsin and Jack Coan on OSU. Any difference?

The consensus top UW starting QB’s were Jim Sorgi, John Stocco, Brooks Bollinger, Scott Tolzien, Darrell Bevell, Joel Stave, Jack Coan and Russell Wilson (1 year).

Impressed?

The top OSU starting QB’s were Terrell Pryor, Craig Krenzel, Dwayne Haskins, Braxton Miller, JT Barrett, Troy Smith, Justin Fields, C.J. Stroud.

There’s no reason the right coach, recruiting better players can’t turn Wisconsin into a B1G Champion. They also have huge boosters with deep pockets.

Who knows who they’ll choose. There are several good candidates.

For example, Lance Leopold was spectacular at Wisconsin-Whitewater, Buffalo and now Kansas. Could he rev up UW? Who knows, but I’d bet on him (or a few others) making that fan base (and the media) forget about the easily forgettable Paul Chryst.
 
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Nostical said:
That’s a pretty cynical view. There’s no reason Wisconsin can’t become competitive with Michigan, Penn State and Ohio St. Consider the fact that heretofore, their uninspiring coaches haven’t recruited a QB like CJ Stroud. Put him on Wisconsin and Jack Coan on OSU. Any difference?

The consensus top UW starting QB’s were Jim Sorgi, John Stocco, Brooks Bollinger, Scott Tolzien, Darrell Bevell, Joel Stave, Jack Coan and Russell Wilson (1 year).

Impressed?

The top OSU starting QB’s were Terrell Pryor, Craig Krenzel, Dwayne Haskins, Braxton Miller, JT Barrett, Troy Smith, Justin Fields, C.J. Stroud.

There’s no reason the right coach, recruiting better players can’t turn Wisconsin into a B1G Champion. They also have huge boosters with deep pockets.

Who knows who they’ll choose. There are several good candidates.

For example, Lance Leopold was spectacular at Wisconsin-Whitewater, Buffalo and now Kansas. Could he rev up UW? Who knows, but I’d bet on him (or a few others) making that fan base (and the media) forget about the easily forgettable Paul Chryst.
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They have been competitive. They're just not Michigan or OSU. They've been better than Iowa. Iowa has known better than to fire their steady hand in Ferentz. Leipold is great. He is an it guy and I believe he would kill it there but what you just wrote could have been written about Nebraska when they canned Bo Pelini.
 
noeynox said:
What you just wrote could have been written about Nebraska when they canned Bo Pelini.
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Sure, but so what, you stop trying?
If Wisconsin had chosen (the old) Urban Meyer instead of Paul Chryst, do you think the Badgers couldn’t have competed with the big boys during that same tenure?
It’s all about wanting to improve. And BTW, that’s a good thing, not an irrational idea.
 
Nostical said:
Sure, but so what, you stop trying?
If Wisconsin had chosen (the old) Urban Meyer instead of Paul Chryst, do you think the Badgers couldn’t have competed with the big boys during that same tenure?
It’s all about wanting to improve. And BTW, that’s a good thing, not an irrational idea.
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Certainly respect your point of view and lord knows they have the money, but when you fire a guy with 73 percent win percentage more bad can happen than good. Chryst had an almost identical record to Brett Beliema at Wisconsin. Makes me think he was smart to chase the money at Arkansas. I first thought he was stupid for leaving a good thing at UW, but apparently that type of winning is not good enough there.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Do I think Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley could make a difference in Wisconsin? No. I do not. Chryst was good at Wisconsin. Not elite. They aren't an elite football program.

Saban, to me is greatest college coach of all time. What was his record at Michigan State again? He won one bowl game in five years there.
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Then there's really no reason for anyone but about a dozen teams to even go out on the field.

As for Saban,
MSU (the 4 years before Saban) 3 wins, 5 wins, 1 win, 0 wins (91-94)
~ was Diaco the coach ?
MSU with Saban: 6 wins, 6 wins, 7 wins, 6 wins, 9 wins (95-99)
There's no reason to think that had he not left, he would have done what he did at LSU/UA at MSU.
 
ibleedhuskyblue said:
Then there's really no reason for anyone but about a dozen teams to even go out on the field.

As for Saban,
MSU (the 4 years before Saban) 3 wins, 5 wins, 1 win, 0 wins (91-94)
~ was Diaco the coach ?
MSU with Saban: 6 wins, 6 wins, 7 wins, 6 wins, 9 wins (95-99)
There's no reason to think that had he not left, he would have done what he did at LSU/UA at MSU.
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I don't think you can create an elite program at every school no matter who the coach is. You can create a very good program, but not an elite program. To create an elite program, you need a large fan base and be in a very fertile recruiting territory and then top off the recruiting base with pieces outside of your geography. That is why Saban left Michigan St. and went to LSU. At LSU, you can create an elite program and win multiple championships.
 
If the question is can a great coach elevate a program, I think sure. But usually not for long and only so high. it depends on lots of factors and there are really just a handful of those guys. In the Big or the SEC there are lots of other programs to climb over, lots of Wisconsins and Iowas and Penn States all of whom can derail you while you chase Ohio State or Michigan, It is probably not as tough in the ACC, B12 or PAC because there aren’t as many real contenders. At least that is how I have always looked at it. But you also dont have as many places with the same level of commitment. So you could build Clemson because there just weren’t as many teams trying to do the same thing. They might say they are, but once late October comes, they care more about who will be the starting point guard than who is Playing quarterback.
 
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UConnJim said:
I don't think you can create an elite program at every school no matter who the coach is. You can create a very good program, but not an elite program. To create an elite program, you need a large fan base and be in a very fertile recruiting territory and then top off the recruiting base with pieces outside of your geography. That is why Saban left Michigan St. and went to LSU. At LSU, you can create an elite program and win multiple championships.
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Michigan is pretty close to MSU isn't it ? and Ohio State ?

Fanbases follow winning. A great coach can win before your program becomes "elite", and then make it elite by sustaining that winning.
 
ibleedhuskyblue said:
Michigan is pretty close to MSU isn't it ? and Ohio State ?

Fanbases follow winning. A great coach can win before your program becomes "elite", and then make it elite by sustaining that winning.
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I think Michigan was elite but they are having a hard time becoming elite again. I define elite as finishing in the top 10 in half of the years in the past 15 years and Michigan has 2 Top 10 finishes in the AP poll in the past 15 years. Here are the schools that I consider to be elite over the past 15 years with # of top 10 finishes:

Alabama - 13
Ohio St. - 13
Oklahoma - 11
Clemson - 8
Georgia - 8
Oregon - 8 (I think it will be hard for them to maintain)

Schools that have been close to elite:

LSU - 5
Florida - 5
Penn St. - 5
USC - 4
Florida St. - 4
Notre Dame - 4
Michigan St. - 4
Stanford - 4
Texas - 4

Other schools:

Boise St. - 3
Cincinnati - 3
Wisconsin - 3
Auburn - 2
Utah - 2
Michigan - 2
Virginia Tech - 2
Texas A&M - 2
Oklahoma St. - 2
Baylor - 2
UCF - 2
 
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