How UL won the battle to the ACC

[The Viking]

If I were a UCONN fan I'd be worried that no other school seems to be interested in helping you out in Conference Realignment. You don't seem to have any friends and when a school like Cuse aligns with Louisville instead of UCONN you have to ask why.

If UConn is stuck in the AAC for decades, and BC is still in the ACC for decades, I'll still be able to fondly look back at the 3 national championships and the thrill that comes with them.
And you'll still be BC, winning nothing except in hockey until we start beating you in that sport as well. Whoops, you couldn't keep us out of the league could you. The can of whoop ass in that sport will come eventually, so please be prepared.

 

[FDNY99]

Interesting. How do you know Warde?

I don't...I didn't get the info from him....

 

[BlueHen]

Jurich did a great job for UL, but this was more about an internal ACC battle and internal control. From what I was told by 2 people somewhat involved (by that I mean employees of the athletic departments- one from UConn and one from FSU, and whose stories match up) FSU, Clemson, and to a lesser degree GT did not want another northern school as the next addition, and wanted an emphasis on football over basketball (all felt a little steamrolled with the additions of SyraPitt). UConn was not going to get their vote this round. Add to that the fact that UM and BC were definite no votes all along, and actively lobbying against UConn (still bad feelings over the lawsuits) . SU was also lobbying for UL, but I have no clue what Pitt's stance was. The first "unofficial" vote did not garner enough "yes" votes for either school. FSU and Clemson leveraged the rumors of the B12 having interest in adding them, and the Carolina schools and UVa eventually blinked. UConn had support from Tobacco Road and UVa.

Take it for what it's worth. I'm inclined to believe it since the 2 people I heard it from have no connection to each other and their versions were very similar.

This is my understanding of how things went down as well. I have no inside information, just lots of reading and listening to various sources.

The ACC has expanded on three recent occasions:
The first time UConn was the victim of bad timing as football was in it's FBS infancy and there were big time established FBS schools available.
The second time UConn was the victim of ill-will from the lawsuit that resulted from the first round on expansion.
The third time was a case of bad timing and bad geography. Bad timing because football was down and bad geography because the ACC knew that it could wait and invite UConn later, whereas Louisville might have been gobbled up by the Big XII if the ACC didn't add them when they did.

I have to think that the next time the ACC expands UConn will be the number 1 target.

 

[CAHUSKY]

If I were a UCONN fan I'd be worried that no other school seems to be interested in helping you out in Conference Realignment. You don't seem to have any friends and when a school like Cuse aligns with Louisville instead of UCONN you have to ask why.

This may be the single most asinine post I've ever seen on the boneyard. BC and Cuse want to castrate UCONN because we have dominated them on the athletic field. We take your recruits and beat you senseless. That is the one and only reason they opposed us. You realize a number of ACC schools advocated for UCONN right. God I hate BC Fans. Come it think of it, I haven't spoken to my cousin, a BC alum, in quite some time. I think I probably hate her too.

 

[4BostonEagle]

Because they're threatened by being in the same conference as UConn. Just like your pansy school.

No reason to abandon the we're so awesome at everything that everyone is afraid of us talking point I guess. Still I have to think there are other reasons.

This may be the single most asinine post I've ever seen on the boneyard. BC and Cuse want to castrate UCONN because we have dominated them on the athletic field. We take your recruits and beat you senseless. That is the one and only reason they opposed us. You realize a number of ACC schools advocated for UCONN right. God I hate BC Fans. Come it think of it, I haven't spoken to my cousin, a BC alum, in quite some time. I think I probably hate her too.

UCONN has never beaten BC in football, and you're not speaking from a position of strength after a 3-9 season. Still like so many things if you say it enough you can convince yourself it's true even if there's no factual backing.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

If I were a UCONN fan I'd be worried that no other school seems to be interested in helping you out in Conference Realignment. You don't seem to have any friends and when a school like Cuse aligns with Louisville instead of UCONN you have to ask why.

So true, you would think the only other FBS football in New England (UMass was not FBS 2 years ago) would want to help it's only regional rival to promote football in the New England, use a strong rivalry to attract recruits and money, and basically work together to create a better product. Nope, instead DeFilippo & Co. at the Heights use the excuse of the lawsuit (every school has sued or been sued over the last 20 years due to CR) and the words from a hot headed, Hall of Fame Basketball coach (who is a Bostonian) to hide behind BC’s fear of being left behind by UConn in football as it was in basketball.
Both BC, who wants to be New England’s team, and Syracuse, who wants to be New York City’s team, have let petty jealously over something that was never theirs bind them to the big picture.

 

[billybud]

Right now, the ACC is gong back and forth on division realignment.

It isn't easy...some folks just "have to" play other folks...

While dividing up North-South makes some sort of sense, dividing up the Carolina-Virginia region is problematic.

I know that FSU is still asking why was Louisville just plugged into Maryland's spot rather then taking the opportunity to realign.

Having Syracuse, Pitt, and BC in one division seems to make more sense then having FSU playing Syracuse and BC while GT (a day ride away) is played twice every 12 years.

I think that "geography" will come into play if there is an additional expansion...who makes a better fit for a North-South split.

 

[Sea Goat]

No reason to abandon the we're so awesome at everything that everyone is afraid of us talking point I guess. Still I have to think there are other reasons.


UCONN has never beaten BC in football, and you're not speaking from a position of strength after a 3-9 season. Still like so many things if you say it enough you can convince yourself it's true even if there's no factual backing.

It's a cold, snowy day in the northeast - wouldn't you be more comfortable under your rock?

 

[ZooCougar]

I broke down and read the piece. My sense is that even if Warde and Susan had "worked harder" then we still would have lost. At the same time I don't think that they understood what was really happening until too late.

 

[Glastonhusky]

If I were a UCONN fan I'd be worried that no other school seems to be interested in helping you out in Conference Realignment. You don't seem to have any friends and when a school like Cuse aligns with Louisville instead of UCONN you have to ask why.

BC didn't want competition in NE, Cuse didn't want competition in NYC, pretty silly really, there are 4 ACC schools in the state of North Carolina and they all seem to be doing fine.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

From what I remember back when this was going down the biggest thing in Louisville's favor was that there was still a very strong possibility of FSU accepting an offer from the B-12. The ACC was basically put in a position where a sufficient number of members needed to believe that adding us over UL was worth the possibility of losing FSU (and quite likely Clemson if FSU wanted them to come along as member 12). One ACC school even stated something to the effect of 'if we turn Louisville down today we will need to add them tomorrow anyway'.

FSU made it pretty damned clear that they saw us as a significant negative in terms of football perception (and what our addition would do to the conference's overall perception) while Louisville was nowhere near that much of a negative. My guess is that this was due to our taking the lazy/easy path in replacing Edsall while Jurich made a bold move in bringing in Strong one year earlier. How fair was this (considering Jurich's earlier Kragthorpe hire)? I don't know but Jurich worked this significantly and supposedly the connections UL had with FSU and Va Tech from their old Metro Conference days were played to the fullest, including the constant reminder of how the original BE members (which we were one of) treated VT when they tried to become a full BE member.

 

[SAMCRO]

No reason to abandon the we're so awesome at everything that everyone is afraid of us talking point I guess. Still I have to think there are other reasons.


UCONN has never beaten BC in football, and you're not speaking from a position of strength after a 3-9 season. Still like so many things if you say it enough you can convince yourself it's true even if there's no factual backing.

Well, I guess if BC's former AD hadn't been quoted directly as saying he didn't want UConn in the ACC due to wanting to own New England we wouldn't have this belief that BC didn't want to help UConn into the ACC so they could try and own New England.

 

[btstimpy]

From what I remember back when this was going down the biggest thing in Louisville's favor was that there was still a very strong possibility of FSU accepting an offer from the B-12. The ACC was basically put in a position where a sufficient number of members needed to believe that adding us over UL was worth the possibility of losing FSU (and quite likely Clemson if FSU wanted them to come along as member 12). One ACC school even stated something to the effect of 'if we turn Louisville down today we will need to add them tomorrow anyway'.

FSU made it pretty damned clear that they saw us as a significant negative in terms of football perception (and what our addition would do to the conference's overall perception) while Louisville was nowhere near that much of a negative. My guess is that this was due to our taking the lazy/easy path in replacing Edsall while Jurich made a bold move in bringing in Strong one year earlier. How fair was this (considering Jurich's earlier Kragthorpe hire)? I don't know but Jurich worked this significantly and supposedly the connections UL had with FSU and Va Tech from their old Metro Conference days were played to the fullest, including the constant reminder of how the original BE members (which we were one of) treated VT when they tried to become a full BE member.

I find it very hard to believe that Virginia Tech would be any sort of advocate for Louisville. Louisville was a ring leader who helped dump Virginia Tech when the clique of Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis helped merge the Metro Conference and Great Midwestern Conference to form Conference USA. Virginia Tech and Virginia Commonwealth both received a surprising letter in the mail from the President of UNC-Charlotte that they were officially not wanted anymore in the Metro Conference. Virginia Tech sued for $7.9 Million in damages. Virginia Tech had to scramble for an Atlantic 10 invite. VCU scrambled for a CAA invite. It was very ugly.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950202&slug=2102750

I can't imagine that UConn did anything worse to Virginia Tech in the Big East than what Louisville did in the Metro. I'm not sure how the Big East stuff went down though. I can see VT supporting the other ACC football schools like FSU, Clemson, and GT in this last vote, but I know they held their nose regarding Louisville. Now that Louisville is in the ACC, Louisville may want to rebuild this Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis clique in the ACC. They successfully built it in the AAC before Louisville was invited to the ACC. I think the AAC basketball tournament is going to be in Memphis soon. I don't want this for the ACC. I'm OK with Louisville, but that's it from that group. Let the Big XII have Cincinnati and Memphis if they need to joing a P5 Conference. Otherwise the AAC is fine for them.

I'm an advocate for UConn to join the ACC. I'm hopefull UConn, Syracuse, Boston College, and Miami could figure out how to get along well enough to help make that happen. They were all friends once. If UConn could build that support group, I think it would happen.

 

[B1GALUM]

I find it very hard to believe that Virginia Tech would be any sort of advocate for Louisville. Louisville was a ring leader who helped dump Virginia Tech when the clique of Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis helped merge the Metro Conference and Great Midwestern Conference to form Conference USA. Virginia Tech and Virginia Commonwealth both received a surprising letter in the mail from the President of UNC-Charlotte that they were officially not wanted anymore in the Metro Conference. Virginia Tech sued for $7.9 Million in damages. Virginia Tech had to scramble for an Atlantic 10 invite. VCU scrambled for a CAA invite. It was very ugly.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950202&slug=2102750

I can't imagine that UConn did anything worse to Virginia Tech in the Big East than what Louisville did in the Metro. I'm not sure how the Big East stuff went down though. I can see VT supporting the other ACC football schools like FSU, Clemson, and GT in this last vote, but I know they held their nose regarding Louisville. Now that Louisville is in the ACC, Louisville may want to rebuild this Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis clique in the ACC. They successfully built it in the AAC before Louisville was invited to the ACC. I think the AAC basketball tournament is going to be in Memphis soon. I don't want this for the ACC. I'm OK with Louisville, but that's it from that group. Let the Big XII have Cincinnati and Memphis if they need to joing a P5 Conference. Otherwise the AAC is fine for them.

I'm an advocate for UConn to join the ACC. I'm hopefull UConn, Syracuse, Boston College, and Miami could figure out how to get along well enough to help make that happen. They were all friends once. If UConn could build that support group, I think it would happen.

As an ACC outsider, I would think the addition of UConn and Cincinnati would be a great pick up for the ACC. UConn would clearly be a fantastic add for basketball and I suspect Diaco is going to get UConn back on track with football. Cincinnati has had success in both basketball and football. Both have built in rivalries with multiple ACC members. UConn would provide a stronger grip on NYC for the ACC. Cincinnati offers more Midwest access and an important Ohio recruiting ground for football for the ACC. Do ACC insiders really think Notre Dame is going to join the ACC full time in football at some point?

 

[billybud]

Adding Cincinnati offers no more recruiting advantage for the ACC in Ohio then adding Pitt will for Pennsylvania....

Take a look at the rosters of the ACC football schools...Louisville has 31 Florida boys on the roster and over half of their commits this year

As an ACC outsider, I would think the addition of UConn and Cincinnati would be a great pick up for the ACC. UConn would clearly be a fantastic add for basketball and I suspect Diaco is going to get UConn back on track with football. Cincinnati has had success in both basketball and football. Both have built in rivalries with multiple ACC members. UConn would provide a stronger grip on NYC for the ACC. Cincinnati offers more Midwest access and an important Ohio recruiting ground for football for the ACC. Do ACC insiders really think Notre Dame is going to join the ACC full time in football at some point?

Naw....It wouldn't open up the Ohio area for ACC football schools....

Ohio State takes the decent kids, and not much left.....even Cincinnati is drawing 6 kids from Florida versus 8 from Ohio....Louisville has 31 Florida kids on the roster and 8 in the current commits....

The ACC football schools will draw from the football rich grounds of Florida, Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina, and maybe cherry pick DC. FSU already cherry picks Texas, Alabama, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania for select recruits while really filling the class from the southeastern region.

I do not ever see Ohio, Pennsylvania, nor the northeast having a major recruiting impact upon ACC football.

 

[B1GALUM]

Adding Cincinnati offers no more recruiting advantage for the ACC in Ohio then adding Pitt will for Pennsylvania....

Take a look at the rosters of the ACC football schools...Louisville has 31 Florida boys on the roster and over half of their commits this year


Naw....It wouldn't open up the Ohio area for ACC football schools....

Ohio State takes the decent kids, and not much left.....even Cincinnati is drawing 6 kids from Florida versus 8 from Ohio....Louisville has 31 Florida kids on the roster and 8 in the current commits....

The ACC football schools will draw from the football rich grounds of Florida, Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina, and maybe cherry pick DC. FSU already cherry picks Texas, Alabama, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania for select recruits while really filling the class from the southeastern region.

I do not ever see Ohio, Pennsylvania, nor the northeast having a major recruiting impact upon ACC football.

Yeah ... that makes sense. On the broader question of ACC expansion ... As an ACC guy, do you think Cincinnati would be a fit for the ACC? We know they've lobbied for an invite.

 

[btstimpy]

As an ACC outsider, I would think the addition of UConn and Cincinnati would be a great pick up for the ACC. UConn would clearly be a fantastic add for basketball and I suspect Diaco is going to get UConn back on track with football. Cincinnati has had success in both basketball and football. Both have built in rivalries with multiple ACC members. UConn would provide a stronger grip on NYC for the ACC. Cincinnati offers more Midwest access and an important Ohio recruiting ground for football for the ACC. Do ACC insiders really think Notre Dame is going to join the ACC full time in football at some point?

I'm not sure Ohio kids will want to go to ACC schools. I think Ohio State will get the best of the lot, and then other Big Ten Schools from surrounding states and after than Cincinnati. The ACC would be competing with the MAC for what's left. We'll soon be able to see if Rutgers and Maryland can load up on the Ohio 4 and 5 star talent. I have my doubts. Some ACC coaches might think so, but I have my doubts. It will be part of the Cincinnati sales pitch to the ACC for sure.

UConn fits the ACC for a number of reasons. UConn could fit the Big Ten as well. I think the Big XII is a bad fit for UConn.

Notre Dame isn't going to join a conference in football unless their not winning a Conference Championship contributes to excluding Notre Dame from the playoffs. Having a 1 loss Notre Dame get left out of the playoffs because of no Conference Championship will help encourage Notre Dame to join a league more than anything. If they join a league, it will be the ACC. It would be nice to see Notre Dame football go 10-2 next season and not make the semifinals while watching 11-2 Stanford go because they won the PAC12 championship after losing to Notre Dame. That would be helpful in making independence a thing of the past.

 

[B1GALUM]

I'm not sure Ohio kids will want to go to ACC schools. I think Ohio State will get the best of the lot, and then other Big Ten Schools from surrounding states and after than Cincinnati. The ACC would be competing with the MAC for what's left. We'll soon be able to see if Rutgers and Maryland can load up on the Ohio 4 and 5 star talent. I have my doubts. Some ACC coaches might think so, but I have my doubts. It will be part of the Cincinnati sales pitch to the ACC for sure.

UConn fits the ACC for a number of reasons. UConn could fit the Big Ten as well. I think the Big XII is a bad fit for UConn.

Notre Dame isn't going to join a conference in football unless their not winning a Conference Championship contributes to excluding Notre Dame from the playoffs. Having a 1 loss Notre Dame get left out of the playoffs because of no Conference Championship will help encourage Notre Dame to join a league more than anything. If they join a league, it will be the ACC. It would be nice to see Notre Dame football go 10-2 next season and not make the semifinals while watching 11-2 Stanford go because they won the PAC12 championship after losing to Notre Dame. That would be helpful in making independence a thing of the past.

Does a Notre Dame as #15 to the ACC open the door for UConn as #16? Since the ACC would get the football brand that is Notre Dame in this scenario, is that enough to pacify the southern ACC schools and get UConn in since it very much is a great match for the ACC?

 

[btstimpy]

Yeah ... that makes sense. On the broader question of ACC expansion ... As an ACC guy, do you think Cincinnati would be a fit for the ACC? We know they've lobbied for an invite.

Cincinnati finished 173 in the Director's Cup last year. I'd like to see the ACC add schools that fit a whole lot better than that athletically regardless if they go to a bowl game occasionally. The ACC sponsors 25 sports.

UConn was 66 and Louisville was 38. Those are much better fits. Including Notre Dame the ACC had 5 in the top 20 in 2013. Pitt worries me sitting at 109. I hope Pitt steps it up in the Olympic sports. Who wants to be in a league with someone that only tries in a couple of sports?

UCF finished at 67 in the 2012-2013 Director's Cup and won the Fiesta Bowl this year. They would fit better athletically. Unfortunately, they are horrible academically. Whomever the ACC invites needs to contribute in as many areas as possible. Winning a few football games while being a drain on all the other sports is not attractive.

 

[btstimpy]

Does a Notre Dame as #15 to the ACC open the door for UConn as #16? Since the ACC would get the football brand that is Notre Dame in this scenario, is that enough to pacify the southern ACC schools and get UConn in since it very much is a great match for the ACC?

Notre Dame at #15 will open the door for another school at #16. UConn would be my choice for the invite.

 

[ZooCougar]

Adding Louisville would seem to indicate that the ACC no longer cares about academics.

That's some good history on the VT/Metro conference thing. VT hired Beamer, they scheduled cupcakes, finagled their way into the Big East and the rest is history.

As an east coast guy, I can get more into games against UNC, Wake, UVA, VT etc. geographically it's a better fit, but I still have hurt feelings report filed somewhere over getting snubbed last fall

 

[billybud]

Ohio is a Midwestern state.....folks follow Big 10 football....and if you can't make that, maybe the MAC interests you.

I am an ACC guy, but one from the deep south. I would prefer another southern team as an ACC addition...a UCF, USF.

North:

Syracuse
Boston College
VT
Notre Dame
Pitt
Louisville
Virginia
North Carolina

South

Clemson
Miami
FSU
GT
NC State
Duke
Wake Forest
UCF

 

[whaler11]

I hope someone from the Director's Cup is reading this thread. It would be nice for them to know that at least one person cares.

 

[kobe]

Ohio is a Midwestern state.....folks follow Big 10 football....and if you can't make that, maybe the MAC interests you.

I am an ACC guy, but one from the deep south. I would prefer another southern team as an ACC addition...a UCF, USF.

North:

Syracuse
Boston College
VT
Notre Dame
Pitt
Louisville
Virginia
North Carolina

South

Clemson
Miami
FSU
GT
NC State
Duke
Wake Forest
UCF

Any conference that expands to 16 team will not use a conventional 2 divisional 8-teams division. I think with the impending NCAA meetings later this month we will figure out how they want to regulate division alignment but a 4x4 pod system seems inevitable.

 

[btstimpy]

I hope someone from the Director's Cup is reading this thread. It would be nice for them to know that at least one person cares.

If you're from a school with a quality athletic department, you care. It doesn't look like Cincinnati cares very much based on their performance. That's a big concern.

The funny thing is that ESPN has gone out and created a faux Director's Cup called the Capital One Cup that picks and chooses some sports above the others in importance, and it separates Men's and Women's. All this is designed to do is make Conferences that only sponsor 19 sports (i.e. SEC, Big XII) feel artificially important in overall athletics. They can't keep up in the straight up comparison. They aren't involved in enough varsity sports to do so.