How does Paige compare to Diana, Maya, and Breanna?

[Skeets]

Sue is easily my #4 on the Mt. Rushmore of UConn WBB. Her basketball resume from college to professional and Olympics is ridiculous.

I agree if we are talking about lifetime accomplishments. But isn't that a little unfair to Paige who only played 1.5 years at UConn. Let's see where the chips settle at the end of her career, and then only consider college performance. Maybe no one tops Sue's lifetime achievements, except maybe DT.

 

[Littlemin]

Perhaps you misspoke, but Paige’s performance in the NC St game is precisely how we got to the FF game last season. If you concede that she carried the team in that game then by definition you have agreed with me.

Now perhaps you could make a case that she didn’t simply carry us to the FF game the year before when her 28 pts were instrumental in beating Baylor. After all, Christyn had 21 and 7 rebounds in that game and made some clutch plays in the second half. Nonetheless, Paige’s performance seems to me to have been more important. As I remember it, Baylor’s defense plan was focused on stopping freshman Paige, and as soon as Didi went down in the 3rd quarter, she torched them. They eventually made a comeback, aided in part by Christyn’s missed free throws.

If you don’t want to make this case, then you’ll have agreed with me again that Paige carried the team to the FF game.

One game in two tournaments does not prove the premise you presented in your original post that Bueckers carried the team both years to the FF and NC respectively, so no I did not misspeak even a little bit.

 

[sun]

One game in two tournaments does not prove the premise you presented in your original post that Bueckers carried the team both years to the FF and NC respectively, so no I did not misspeak even a little bit.

Paige scored a team high 28 points against Baylor and had 3 steals, the last one sealed the 2 point game.

Women's Basketball vs Baylor on 3/29/2021 - Box Score - University of Connecticut Athletics

The official box score of Women's Basketball vs Baylor on 3/29/2021

uconnhuskies.com

 

[meyers7]

For the moment, let's put aside the comparative stats. If you were constructing an all-time UConn women's team, who would you have as your point guard alongside, Maya, Stewie, Diana and Tina?

I'll take Sue Bird over Paige, albeit barely. For me, it's akin to Russell vs Wilt. Stats don't win championships.

Jefferson.

 

[meyers7]

Sue is easily my #4 on the Mt. Rushmore of UConn WBB. Her basketball resume from college to professional and Olympics is ridiculous.

Unfortunately UCONN's Mt Rushmore does not include professional or Olympics.

 

[meyers7]

The video was about Jackie being a great player as a relative unknown, considering her accomplishments, not so much about really being the greatest player ever. Coming from a tiny high school and playing college ball at SW Missouri State I believe would qualify her in that regard, at least. Riley played at Notre Dame, in the spotlight, and had a built-in edge in NPOY voting. Jackie also was a very good pro until injuries quickly ended her career.

Again, she was quite well known (to WBB fans and if you're not a WBB fan, you never heard of Riley either and don't care and aren't the writer's audience). So take that away, and your left with Riley winning most of the NPOY awards.

 

[meyers7]

Geno called Dee a point forward, a forward that plays at the point or vice versa.

Found this:

Connecticut primarily uses a four-guard lineup with Taurasi often working as the point forward, which explains why she's UConn's top rebounder.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2003-04-08-0304070795-story.html

Bird and Taurasi are great stories who made themselves useful. Bird is a brilliant point guard and organized an offense made of players just learning each others' tendencies. Taurasi played point forward, demonstrating her basketball IQ with her passing.

Souhan: Reeve in charge, Bueckers at guard? U.S. women’s hoops likely to improve

SAITAMA, Japan — Dawn Staley had just announced, during a gold medal press conference, that she was "done" as the U.S. women's basketball head coach. After she stepped off the podium, I asked her if she would recommend Lynx coach and General Manager Cheryl Reeve as her replacement...

sports.yahoo.com

I don't see where Geno said that. And it would be hard to be a pt forward while playing the 1/2. Which she did all four years at UCONN.

Her FR year Bird/DT/Ralph/KJ played the 1/2. Schumaker/Williams/Cash/Jones/Abrosimova played the 3/4/5.
SO year it was Cash/Williams/Jones played the 3/4/5
JR year it was Moore/Strother/Turner/Crocket/Valley played the 3/4/5
Sr year pretty much the same.

Maybe in the pros?? In the Olympics DT played the 2 to Bird's 1. Pretty much for almost 20 years?

 

[Waquoit]

Found this:

Connecticut primarily uses a four-guard lineup with Taurasi often working as the point forward, which explains why she's UConn's top rebounder.

Four-guard lineup? Bird, Taurasi, Cash, Jones and Williams? If Taurasi is a forward now, that's a one-guard lineup.

 

[Littlemin]

Paige scored a team high 28 points against Baylor and had 3 steals, the last one sealed the 2 point game.

Women's Basketball vs Baylor on 3/29/2021 - Box Score - University of Connecticut Athletics

The official box score of Women's Basketball vs Baylor on 3/29/2021

uconnhuskies.com

You guys can quote stats all you want, to think a game here or a game there qualifies her as an all time great, fine, I don’t. I could sit here and pluck out a plethora of names. How does Bueckers compare to Sabrina Ionescu statistically? Is Ionescu an all-time great on the level of Bird, Moore, and Taurasi? Or is her main shortcoming that she never won a NC and didn’t play for Uconn?

 

[Bone Dog]

You guys can quote stats all you want, to think a game here or a game there qualifies her as an all time great, fine, I don’t. I could sit here and pluck out a plethora of names. How does Bueckers compare to Sabrina Ionescu statistically? Is Ionescu an all-time great on the level of Bird, Moore, and Taurasi? Or is her main shortcoming that she never won a NC and didn’t play for Uconn?

You are misrepresenting what I said, I think. I didn't say "a game here or a game there qualifies her as an all time great." I have been saying all along that stats don't qualify her, impressive as they are, only NCs do -- and I'm sure Paige would agree.

I merely offered one qualification that might make us think Paige could turn out to be comparable to Diana after she's won a couple NCs, namely that she did more as a freshman (and maybe even in a shortened sophomore run) than Diana had to. She carried a weaker team to the final four twice. Diana won 3 NCs, and she carried her team to two of them. Paige hasn't done that. But Diana did her most amazing work -- carrying teams all the way -- as a junior and a senior. She had no Sue guiding the team next to her on those.

You quibbled with me that Paige hadn't "carried" the team to any final fours, though you conceded she'd carried the team to a win over NC St -- which was precisely my point. By winning that game, she carried UConn to a FF game. Those are your own words. I then conceded that you could credibly argue she didn't "carry" UConn to the FF game the previous season by beating Baylor because Christyn had a good game, too. But watching the details of that game, as @sun points out, gives any observer reason to think she was the essential player that game too.

 

[Littlemin]

You are misrepresenting what I said, I think. I didn't say "a game here or a game there qualifies her as an all time great." I have been saying all along that stats don't qualify her, impressive as they are, only NCs do -- and I'm sure Paige would agree.

I merely offered one qualification that might make us think Paige could turn out to be comparable to Diana after she's won a couple NCs, namely that she did more as a freshman (and maybe even in a shortened sophomore run) than Diana had to. She carried a weaker team to the final four twice. Diana won 3 NCs, and she carried her team to two of them. Paige hasn't done that. But Diana did her most amazing work -- carrying teams all the way -- as a junior and a senior. She had no Sue guiding the team next to her on those.

You quibbled with me that Paige hadn't "carried" the team to any final fours, though you conceded she'd carried the team to a win over NC St -- which was precisely my point. By winning that game, she carried UConn to a FF game. Those are your own words. I then conceded that you could credibly argue she didn't "carry" UConn to the FF game the previous season by beating Baylor because Christyn had a good game, too. But watching the details of that game, as @sun points out, gives any observer reason to think she was the essential player that game too.

My last word, in all of my posts concerning Bueckers I have acknowledged her abilities, but saying she is a legit AA is just not good enough praise for many of you. My only “knock” on her has been this obsession that she be included in the discussion of the greatest of all time. To me that is absolutely utter nonsense at this point in time. Could she wind up there, sure she could, but I for one seriously doubt it. Not because of any concrete reason but because the past is strewn with a million more “couldas” than there are “dids”. I don’t care one iota what could happen; IMO, the discussion should start when, and only when, it does actually happen.
As for the NC State game, I just define “carried” through a tournament more than one game, anyway, you don’t and that is fine, we just disagree.

 

[sun]

You guys can quote stats all you want, to think a game here or a game there qualifies her as an all time great, fine, I don’t. I could sit here and pluck out a plethora of names. How does Bueckers compare to Sabrina Ionescu statistically? Is Ionescu an all-time great on the level of Bird, Moore, and Taurasi? Or is her main shortcoming that she never won a NC and didn’t play for Uconn?

I didn't say that Paige was the greatest all time UConn player which you seem to attribute to me, when you replied to me regarding my mention of Paige's team high scoring & final steal against Baylor.
I said on Page 1,

So far I accredit Paige with being the greatest UConn freshman ever.
No other UConn player has ever had a rookie season as great as hers was.
Her rookie season was like the comet that she is, simply sensational.

 

[Bone Dog]

My last word, in all of my posts concerning Bueckers I have acknowledged her abilities, but saying she is a legit AA is just not good enough praise for many of you. My only “knock” on her has been this obsession that she be included in the discussion of the greatest of all time. To me that is absolutely utter nonsense at this point in time. Could she wind up there, sure she could, but I for one seriously doubt it. Not because of any concrete reason but because the past is strewn with a million more “couldas” than there are “dids”. I don’t care one iota what could happen; IMO, the discussion should start when, and only when, it does actually happen.
As for the NC State game, I just define “carried” through a tournament more than one game, anyway, you don’t and that is fine, we just disagree.

I'm with you most of the way. My optimism leads me to hope she'll get two healthy seasons and win two NCs. If she does that, I think she belongs in the conversation for Mt. Rushmore, since she'd no longer be a "coulda" but a "did." And in that conversation, she'd would then (and only then) be comparable to Diana. An NC is the ticket to that dance.

As for the "carrying the team" question, we absolutely get to disagree on that one. Disagreement is healthy... and fun. Personally, I think there was no way we could have made it to the FF either year without her, or the NC game last year. That's why I say she carried us. She didn't make every key play along the way. But I can't imagine that group getting to either FF without her. I mean, in her freshman year, I don't even see us winning against Tennessee or SC in the regular season. We just didn't have the spirit to take those games.

That win over Baylor, I think Paige stole that one from Fate, since we were outplayed for long stretches of that game. For as long as Didi was able to play deny D on Paige, we floundered. As soon as Didi went down, Paige torched them like a screaming Valkyrie. Aari was more successful at playing deny D in the next game, and the rest of the team floundered even worse. As a team, we had reached our limit -- not Paige's limit, the team's limit. I suspect if Didi hadn't suffered that injury, we would have lost the Baylor game. Every team we played in that tournament focused on stopping Paige. If the rest of the team managed to step up, that strategy failed. They didn't step up against Arizona, and almost didn't against Baylor.

The win over Stanford that got us into the NC game last year wasn't entirely Paige's doing. But I can't really imagine us achieving it if she weren't on the floor. Partly it was Stanford folding under the pressure -- I mean, we made several near-fatal errors near the end and still held them off. But mainly the threat of Paige opened things up for the others to do great things.

So yes, my claim about "carrying" the team is debatable, and that's where all the fun is. But none of it matters in the Mt Rushmore discussion if she doesn't win a NC or two.

 

[tchalla1]

Paige does not compare favorably to the mentioned comparators because all the comparators have won national championships--multiple championships mind you--and Paige is yet to accomplish this. If the comparison was qualified--for example, how does Paige compare as far as a scorer, how does Paige compare as far as a clutch player. or Paige's inherent overall value to her team, then I feel you can make cogent comparisons...

 

[WFFL]

It's been rumored that Ashlynn Shade is the reincarnation of Jackie Stiles. Time will tell!

I started that rumor with the comparison LOL