Holy Cross Coach Accused of Physical Abuse

[stamfordhusky]

You will need more than “embarrassment” and “out of control” to convince me, and hopefully a court, that he should be found legally responsible for his behavior….

I never said or implied that this would make him legally liable for anything. I was just responding to Ice's characterization, since I have seen Gibbons about a dozen times coaching competitive PL games and he was frequently out-of-control. I have no idea if that led to physical abuse, although it wouldn't stun me if it did.

 

[CL82]

Running wind sprints (suicides), lifting weights, running into screens, taking charges all cause pain, too, and are a part of development and learning to play through. What level of pain are we talking, did she end up in the trainer's office for treatment. Fine, that is an injury and is unacceptable. Did he make her say ouch, that is just a boo boo. Cuffing someone by the neck and redirecting them towards where they are supposed to be moving or cutting is cruelty, not really.

Putting people under durress is an important part of helping to prepare them to play under pressure. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways of doing it.

There suddenly seems to be a plethora of these incidents. Ambulance chasers or real protection: that is an important issue.

Grabbing a player by the neck is over the line, if accurate. You can be a disciplinarian without touching kids. I have no problem with repositioning a kid off a jersey or torso but grabbing the neck...?

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

I never said or implied that this would make him legally liable for anything. I was just responding to Ice's characterization, since I have seen Gibbons about a dozen times coaching competitive PL games and he was frequently out-of-control. I have no idea if that led to physical abuse, although it wouldn't stun me if it did.

" I have no idea if that led to physical abuse, although it wouldn't stun me if it did." Then apparently you do have an idea.

IAC, as I said earlier, he is guilty in the minds of many already. Hope he can “prove his innocence.” I certainly have "no idea".

 

[ciarlante]

It is well known that teaching is much more effective in a positive environment with proper reinforcement..it seems like a lot of people on this board yearn for the days when they got their knuckles hit by the Nuns with their yardsticks..despite what they may think people tune you out when you yell at them and I've yet to see a player want to play for a coach that hits or grabs them or whatever..these ladies that make it to play in college deserve a lot more respect than this and I doubt many of them are not "trying".. if these types of threats, intimidation, etc work so well than the Afghanistan women's team should be really good soon..amd Geno's disciplinarian style isn't what wins him championships..that would be recruiting..Of course if a girl has a personality where she wants to be pushed, yelled at, etc within reasonable boundaries then thats another story..but its not the norm..not even for the boys..

 

[JimGunther]

I disagree but, then my mom - at the beginning of each school year - gave the teacher permission (no, really, suggested) - that corporal (sp?) punishment could be employed as appropriate.
I wasn't always well behaved (smart mouth mostly) but the nun's strap never hardly left me emotionally traumatized for life. There were boundaries and if you crossed them it might cost you. Big whoop.

Grabbing a player by the neck is over the line, if accurate. You can be a disciplinarian without touching kids. I have no problem with repositioning a kid off a jersey or torso but grabbing the neck...?

 

[Icebear]

Grabbing a player by the neck is over the line, if accurate. You can be a disciplinarian without touching kids. I have no problem with repositioning a kid off a jersey or torso but grabbing the neck...?

There are numerous ways to grab a kid by the neck some acceptable and some not. I have cuffed kids at the back of their neck right in front of their parents and all parties understood it was done in fun and all laugh. It can be akin to tussling a kid's hair. It is not two hands around the throat which is the other extreme.

 

[Wbbfan1]

What's the problem Gibbs does it to Tony DiNozzo in almost every episode of NCIS? Gets his attention

 

[Artifact]

I do not know the full circumstances regarding coach Gibbons. I do know that their are now more lawyers in the USA than in the whole world. They must be fed. If someone suffers either mental or physical abuse or both, than someone must pay for this suffering. Once blood is smelt in the water, this attracts more attorneys. I do want anyone to suffer abuse but my concern is over frivolous suits. This will only weaken the the relationship between players & coaches, which will affect game performances.

 

[Dawgs Bite]

It is the Barney generation

I have always had my suspicions about Barney.

 

[ciarlante]

I disagree but, then my mom - at the beginning of each school year - gave the teacher permission (no, really, suggested) - that corporal (sp?) punishment could be employed as appropriate.
I wasn't always well behaved (smart mouth mostly) but the nun's strap never hardly left me emotionally traumatized for life. There were boundaries and if you crossed them it might cost you. Big whoop.

corporal was spelled correctly..that saves you a whack from the nun's strap ...bit if a player has a smart mouth or bad attitude you can kick her out of practice or even off the team if it's repeated..not saying they should not be punished for crossing over the line but screaming in their face with profanities and/or grabbing, pushing, hitting them brings a coach over the line.. none is getting sued for yelling or having a loud coaching voice..

 

[stamfordhusky]

Gibbons has now taken a leave of absence. This article gives more info on the allegations.

http://www.telegram.com/article/20131016/NEWS/310169841/1116

 

[stamfordhusky]

" I have no idea if that led to physical abuse, although it wouldn't stun me if it did." Then apparently you do have an idea.

Nope, not at all. If I said: "" I have no idea if it will snow on December 3rd 2017, although it wouldn't stun me if it did" - would you also conclude I have an idea that it will snow on that date 4+ years from now?

To not be stunned if something turns out to be true doesn't at all mean I think it happened. Just that it is possible.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Not the message I have from your words, but that's ok.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Not the message I have from your words, but that's ok.

That is due to your own interpretation. Not anything I wrote.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I think corporal punishment in schools should be brought back at all levels. Ditto with the work place, in churches, etc. etc. It obviously is a very effective way of education exacted by thoughtful, creative people..... And I've never read anything that has suggested that those who experienced it had any negative feelings towards it.

 

[boontonbomber]

Running wind sprints (suicides), lifting weights, running into screens, taking charges all cause pain, too, and are a part of development and learning to play through. What level of pain are we talking, did she end up in the trainer's office for treatment. Fine, that is an injury and is unacceptable. Did he make her say ouch, that is just a boo boo. Cuffing someone by the neck and redirecting them towards where they are supposed to be moving or cutting is cruelty, not really.

Putting people under durress is an important part of helping to prepare them to play under pressure. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways of doing it.

There suddenly seems to be a plethora of these incidents. Ambulance chasers or real protection: that is an important issue.

so, in your opinion, it is ok to grab some a player by the neck, with the intention of causing pain, in order to get their attention. as long as the player doesn't end up in the trainer's office, it's perfectly appropriate. i would hope that you don't really mean that.
yes, there are a plethora of these incidents coming to light, because there is a plethora of abuse, physical and mental, going on out there in society, and has been for a long while. i expect that you, in your position, are more aware of this abuse than most . of course, what's going on now is that the abused are being encouraged to speak up. and it's far beyond time for that to be happening. coaches are just the latest ones to be called on the carpet, and into courts, for abusing their position of power.

 

[boontonbomber]

I think corporal punishment in schools should be brought back at all levels. Ditto with the work place, in churches, etc. etc. It obviously is a very effective way of education exacted by thoughtful, creative people..... And I've never read anything that has suggested that those who experienced it had any negative feelings towards it.

absolutely. i bet i would have been a whole lot more successful in getting my students to solve quadratic equations if i could have just grabbed them by the back of the neck at times, and inflicted just a bit of pain.

 

[Icebear]

so, in your opinion, it is ok to grab some a player by the neck, with the intention of causing pain, in order to get their attention. as long as the player doesn't end up in the trainer's office, it's perfectly appropriate. i would hope that you don't really mean that.
yes, there are a plethora of these incidents coming to light, because there is a plethora of abuse, physical and mental, going on out there in society, and has been for a long while. i expect that you, in your position, are more aware of this abuse than most . of course, what's going on now is that the abused are being encouraged to speak up. and it's far beyond time for that to be happening. coaches are just the latest ones to be called on the carpet, and into courts, for abusing their position of power.

No, not at all, and it is the opposite of what I said. I said there is a whole range of contact from appropriate to inappropriate. I would assert that we only have one very biased side of the story and know next to nothing about the actual events that could be anywhere along the spectrum I detailed. Yes, I am very aware of abuse and I am, also, very aware of those who abuse the system for profit as well. I have been involved in support and care of both the accused and the accusers during my ministry. I have been threatened at gunpoint for protecting an abused wife and currently am supporting a couple losing contact with their grandchildren to a ex daughter in law whose mother shot and killed their son. Accusations of abuse are flying in all directions.

It is a very difficult process that one must wade through to get to some sense of the truth if that is ever fully possible to discern. Nothing good or accurate can be derived from news paper reports or on a sports bulletin board.

 

[boontonbomber]

No, not at all, and it is the opposite of what I said. I said there is a whole range of contact from appropriate to inappropriate. I would assert that we only have one very biased side of the story and know next to nothing about the actual events that could be anywhere along the spectrum I detailed. Yes, I am very aware of abuse and I am, also, very aware of those who abuse the system for profit as well. I have been involved in support and care of both the accused and the accusers during my ministry.

It is a very difficult process that one must wade through to get to some sense of the truth if that is ever fully possible to discern. Nothing good or accurate can be derived from news paper reports or on a sports bulletin board.

c'mon, you said," did she end up in the trainer's office? fine, that's an injury, and not acceptable." sounds like if she was not injured, it's acceptable. certainly there is a range of contacts, but we may not have the same opinion as to what's appropriate, and what's not. i don't think a trip to the trainer is needed to show that inappropriate contact was made. if gibbons grabbed her neck and caused pain, i think that's wrong.
i certainly understand why you're concerned that innocent people have had their lives turned upside down. no argument there from me. what bothers me is that you, and others here, may seem to think that a certain level of inflicted pain is acceptable.

 

[Icebear]

c'mon, you said," did she end up in the trainer's office? fine, that's an injury, and not acceptable." sounds like if she was not injured, it's acceptable. certainly there is a range of contacts, but we may not have the same opinion as to what's appropriate, and what's not. i don't think a trip to the trainer is needed to show that inappropriate contact was made. if gibbons grabbed her neck and caused pain, i think that's wrong.
i certainly understand why you're concerned that innocent people have had their lives turned upside down. no argument there from me. what bothers me is that you, and others here, may seem to think that a certain level of inflicted pain is acceptable.

My point about the trainer's office is that there is then evidence instead of simple "she said, he said." "It hurt," anyone can say that, was it a 1 or a 10 on a 10 point scale? Did she have to leave practice because of it? There is no way to prove there was or was not pain. That is why lawyers love pain and soft tissue damage. If the trainer saw bruising from the grip then that is evidence and potential testimony and not just a personal assertion.

 

[JS]

Why file in NYC?

Far as I can tell, it's just to make Holy Cross play on her home turf. All else being equal, that's an advantage for lots of reasons.

You can read the Complaint here.

It's not like the whatserface lawsuit where procedures for filing against employers in Connecticut are slower (more preliminary administrative process) than in New York. Plaintiff here isn't an employee of any defendant.

Not to say there isn't some specific advantage under the legal precedents in New York, or under court procedures or standards of evidence or proof. Possibly there's a statutory angle -- New York has a law, which Cole cited, against harassment of a student because of her sex.

As to why the New York court is supposed to have jurisdiction, Cole is a resident of New York and she points to a bunch of activities by Holy Cross in that state, including the residence of ten of the school's trustees, alumni clubs, recruiting activities, etc. etc. -- basically everything she could think of short of Gibbons occasionally using the George Washington Bridge.

No idea at this stage how the merits will play out, but unlike whatserface I doubt Cole will get thrown out of New York court on jurisdictional grounds.

 

[Geno-ista]

Look, I don't want to see that these charges are true, either, both because Gibbons has the reputation of being a good guy and, well, because I'm a Holy Cross grad. But this is not a case where the coach is charged with saying nasty words to players. He is charged with hitting at least one of them, hard enough to leave marks. Now, I do't know whether that's true any more than all of you do, but if that's the charge and if it's proven, it's a whole universe away from nasty words, IMHO.
http://www.masslive.com/news/worces...gibbon.html#incart_flyout_news#incart_m-rpt-2

Painful if this proves to be true- my daughter is a proud HC grad who just got married at the Chapel there. He always appears to be a class act.

 

[stamfordhusky]

He always appears to be a class act.

You clearly haven't seen a lot of his games.

 

[JimGunther]

As I assumed, make it difficult (and more costly) for HC to defend. Then there's the matter of the Attorney having compliant media outlets.

I hope it DOES get thrown-out based on jurisdiction (but, you know the system better than I do)..

When are we going to have "loser pays" ? I mean, there no "hazard of litigation" at all for the plaintiff or her attorney.

Far as I can tell, it's just to make Holy Cross play on her home turf. All else being equal, that's an advantage for lots of reasons.

You can read the Complaint here.
.

 

[Icebear]

I see that it is being reported that Gibbons has stepped down.

http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/...rmer_rumson_player_alleges_abuse_in_suit.html


Is it stepped aside or stepped down? They have very different connotations to me.