Hire Brad Stevens NOW!!!!!!!! | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Hire Brad Stevens NOW!!!!!!!!

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Waquoit

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I'd go a step further and say that about a huge percentage of our fans. they aren't really UConn fans. they are Calhoun fans.

I don't agree with this. Maybe it's true about folks on the Boneyard, but I don't think that's the case with the fans in general. They love the fact that JC made the program a winner, but UConn sold out the Civic Center for all of the Big East games before Calhoun. I think many long-time fans are upset with Calhoun for the probation and post-season ban. I truly believe that's a factor affecting attendance.
 
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I don't agree with this. Maybe it's true about folks on the Boneyard, but I don't think that's the case with the fans in general. They love the fact that JC made the program a winner, but UConn sold out the Civic Center for all of the Big East games before Calhoun. I think many long-time fans are upset with Calhoun for the probation and post-season ban. I truly believe that's a factor affecting attendance.
I can actually buy that argument to a degree. Except for the sell out the Big East games at the civic Center part. I walked up and bought tix to see St johns with Chris Dudley and Georgetown, back in the day and neither game was close to a sell out. Syracuse, though, for some reason always was. I do think that most boneyarders are Calhoun fans first, though.
 
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That's what bothers me about this entire kerfluffle. Reading quotes like the ones from Donny Marshall leads me to believe that the old players don't see themselves as "UConn guys". Theysee themselves as "Calhoun guys". Not the same thing.

Freescooter is going to like that quote? Really? After not being here for weeks? Really?

They are loyal to Calhoun, and Calhoun decided Ollie is best. They are UConn guys. The world is not divided.
Did you see what happened when the Michigan guys knocked the RichRod hire? Were they Michigan guys? That whole crew is 100% behind Hoke. They were 99% against RichRod.
 
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You two should get a bed.

A great many fans here were UConn fans long before Calhoun showed up. What you are discussing is absurd.
 
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I'd go a step further and say that about a huge percentage of our fans. they aren't really UConn fans. they are Calhoun fans. Much like political scientists now see the election of G H W Bush as "Ronald Reagan's 3rd term" many of our fans see the appointment of Ollie as Jim Calhoun's 3rd term. And for that matter, if Calhoun had proposed that the seat in the 3rd row of section 105 be named the head coach to succeed him, we'd be reading the same weepy paeans to that chair that we now read to Ollie. he's done a "great job" despite the fact that his team got taken to ot by a middle of the pack team from one of the weakest conferences in the country and lost to a mid-major from a decidedly average mid-major conference.

Freescooter shows up after a loss. Not a peep from him after Michigan St.

I'd be embarrassed.
 
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Freescooter shows up after a loss. Not a peep from him after Michigan St.

I'd be embarrassed.

That's why I won't even bother engaging him and I hope others follow suit. Was nowhere to be found for two weeks while they won and then was back on the scene instantly following a loss. He's a chump, ignore him.
 
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Brad Stevens is doing just fine at Butler (under contrat thru 2022!! at $1MM per year) and has turned down major programs in the past. Its simply faulty logic to assume UConn can get him and that they can even pursue him without some collateral damage - at best there is 50-50 risk you alienate the current players and coach during a critical season. Anyone criticizing UConn's AD or administration in general for their coaching hires but then REACTING TO ONE GAME and proposing a very risky bet is by definition not qualified to weigh-in on the coach selection process. I know Stevens has a body of work, but this thread is prompted by them having a nice game plan and dominating a bunch of disorganized UNC freshman in Hawaii. So what?!

UConn needs to make a thoughtful, strategic long-term decision and the overnight game-by-game reviews of the coaching future are by their definition flimsy and posters are in essence disqualifying themselves from having a valid opinion by reacting on a game-by-game basis JUST LIKE they would think the AD or UConn adminstration isn't treating this thoughtfully if they were to base their decision on any singular piece of evidence.
 

caw

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I can actually buy that argument to a degree. Except for the sell out the Big East games at the civic Center part. I walked up and bought tix to see St johns with Chris Dudley and Georgetown, back in the day and neither game was close to a sell out. Syracuse, though, for some reason always was. I do think that most boneyarders are Calhoun fans first, though.

I actually don't completely disagree with the idea that many are Calhoun fans, Calhoun was the head coach of UConn for 26 years. He was UConn men's basketball for those 26 years.

I would argue most fans 30-35 and under never experienced a non-Calhoun team (prior to this year), or at the least they don't really remember pre-Calhoun teams.

For many younger fans it has nothing to do with not being a fan of UConn, or being a fan of Calhoun first. It's a simple matter of the two being inseparably and indelibly linked in many of the younger poster's minds. If you are a fan of UConn men's basketball you are a fan of Jim Calhoun.

Those in the older generation probably have fond memories of pre-Calhoun teams, however, I would guess that the younger generation quotient on an internet messageboard is fairly high. I'm betting you fall in the older, if not much older, category which is fine, but you can't expect younger posters to have the same fondness for the pre-Calhoun era.
 

8893

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That may be the most confident post of vagueness ever seen here. Tell me why it's simplistic or misguided or a misunderstanding. I have no problem having an intelligent debate of different opinions about things but I have to have something to work with.

Fair enough. Here goes:


It is simplistic because this is not a fantasy league. You don’t get to drop coaches, pick up other ones and immediately inherit their stats and successes, and then go back to the previous choice if that doesn’t work out, etc. Fit matters. Timing matters. Loyalty matters. Integrity matters. Tradition matters. Your word matters. I have no idea how old you are, but I see your mentality increasingly among the younger generation of young adults and I’m guessing that you are at least one generation younger than me chronologically and two in mindset (I'm 46). Perhaps it’s a function of growing up in an instant gratification and increasingly removed and detached world that is less accustomed to real time, in person, human interaction. I don’t know what it is, but I know that you can’t just treat people like parts, and your approach assumes that you can.

It is misguided and evidences a fundamental misunderstanding for several reasons, the most fundamental of which is the timing. You said you would take Stevens “all day long right now” if you think you can get him come April. That’s actually one course of action that is even worse than what Manuel did. I can understand wanting to bring in a proven “name” coach who is viewed as the next up-and-comer du jour, like Stevens, Smart or Miller (I think Stevens is the worst choice of the three for UConn, but I’ll come back to that). But if that’s what you were set on doing, you don’t give Ollie and the world your word that you are going to give Ollie a legitimate shot to earn it. In that event, you put the interim tag on Blaney, Hobbs or Miller and you start your national search and auditions outside the program now, with it known that you will be making a new hire by the Spring. Having told Ollie and the world that he has shot to earn the spot permanently, you have to give him that shot. And it has to be a real shot. If it’s just a façade to placate everyone for a short while, you will certainly alienate every ounce of institutional good will you have with respect ties to Calhoun and the players who played for him. Good luck funding your practice facility. But most importantly, you will have lied, and that will never, ever be forgotten by anybody, including your new hire. Which, in turn, means that you will never be trusted, and you can expect to be treated the same by those with whom you deal. In other words, your new head coach knows that you can’t be trusted, too, and he’ll continue to keep his eyes out for better opportunities to jump to if (more likely, when) you hit a rough patch. If you read the recent AO interview, that is exactly his mentality. And he is being killed here for it. Because, here, loyalty matters. It’s what Calhoun sold and it is what Ollie is selling. If you want to change the culture, ties and bedrock principles on which Calhoun built the program, the fastest way to do that is to do what you suggest.

The other most fundamental problem is that you simply don’t believe in Ollie and his ability to be successful here. That’s fine, but at least have the courage to admit it. All the hopes and good thoughts are nice, but what else are you going to say? Of course you’re not rooting against him. Who would? But believing in his ability to succeed is something entirely different, and what you and others are suggesting shows unequivocally that you are betting against him because you want to go in an entirely different direction right now. Again, if that’s what you want to do, you don’t lead him on. And you don’t have the luxury of keeping him around as your second (more likely fifth, I’m guessing) choice. He won’t be there once he knows that. Your word matters. If he knows you’re just waiting for something better to come along, he’ll do the same. You think Calhoun would have turned down South Carolina if he though that’s what the AD thought of him? These are people. They react to what they observe. Acting like you’re assuming that you’ve got Ollie locked up if nothing better comes along is not going to pay dividends in the long run.

I have to get some actual work done myself today, but I wanted to respond to your request for my reasons for my opinion. I only have time for some of them, but the final thing I should mention is fit—and as I’ve suggested elsewhere, I think Stevens just is not a good fit here culturally for reasons I've mentioned before. The Northeast is very different from the Midwest. This ain't Hickory. For better or worse, most of the recruits we target have legitimate NBA aspirations. Our success in producing long-tenured NBA players is one of the greatest single selling points we have. If there is one asset Ollie has to compensate for his lack of head coaching experience, it is his NBA experience. What does Stevens have to show for that? What experience does he have coaching a team of several players with those aspirations? Do his system and style of play suggest that he can help them more than others? Otherwise, what does he have to sell the potential recruits we want to sell?

As you might expect, I have a lot more thoughts on this. But I’ll leave it there for now so I can get home on time tonight and not alienate my family.
 
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Fair enough. Here goes:


It is simplistic because this is not a fantasy league. You don’t get to drop coaches, pick up other ones and immediately inherit their stats and successes, and then go back to the previous choice if that doesn’t work out, etc. Fit matters. Timing matters. Loyalty matters. Integrity matters. Tradition matters. Your word matters. I have no idea how old you are, but I see your mentality increasingly among the younger generation of young adults and I’m guessing that you are at least one generation younger than me chronologically and two in mindset (I'm 46). Perhaps it’s a function of growing up in an instant gratification and increasingly removed and detached world that is less accustomed to real time, in person, human interaction. I don’t know what it is, but I know that you can’t just treat people like parts, and your approach assumes that you can.

It is misguided and evidences a fundamental misunderstanding for several reasons, the most fundamental of which is the timing. You said you would take Stevens “all day long right now” if you think you can get him come April. That’s actually one course of action that is even worse than what Manuel did. I can understand wanting to bring in a proven “name” coach who is viewed as the next up-and-comer du jour, like Stevens, Smart or Miller (I think Stevens is the worst choice of the three for UConn, but I’ll come back to that). But if that’s what you were set on doing, you don’t give Ollie and the world your word that you are going to give Ollie a legitimate shot to earn it. In that event, you put the interim tag on Blaney, Hobbs or Miller and you start your national search and auditions outside the program now, with it known that you will be making a new hire by the Spring. Having told Ollie and the world that he has shot to earn the spot permanently, you have to give him that shot. And it has to be a real shot. If it’s just a façade to placate everyone for a short while, you will certainly alienate every ounce of institutional good will you have with respect ties to Calhoun and the players who played for him. Good luck funding your practice facility. But most importantly, you will have lied, and that will never, ever be forgotten by anybody, including your new hire. Which, in turn, means that you will never be trusted, and you can expect to be treated the same by those with whom you deal. In other words, your new head coach knows that you can’t be trusted, too, and he’ll continue to keep his eyes out for better opportunities to jump to if (more likely, when) you hit a rough patch. If you read the recent AO interview, that is exactly his mentality. And he is being killed here for it. Because, here, loyalty matters. It’s what Calhoun sold and it is what Ollie is selling. If you want to change the culture, ties and bedrock principles on which Calhoun built the program, the fastest way to do that is to do what you suggest.

The other most fundamental problem is that you simply don’t believe in Ollie and his ability to be successful here. That’s fine, but at least have the courage to admit it. All the hopes and good thoughts are nice, but what else are you going to say? Of course you’re not rooting against him. Who would? But believing in his ability to succeed is something entirely different, and what you and others are suggesting shows unequivocally that you are betting against him because you want to go in an entirely different direction right now. Again, if that’s what you want to do, you don’t lead him on. And you don’t have the luxury of keeping him around as your second (more likely fifth, I’m guessing) choice. He won’t be there once he knows that. Your word matters. If he knows you’re just waiting for something better to come along, he’ll do the same. You think Calhoun would have turned down South Carolina if he though that’s what the AD thought of him? These are people. They react to what they observe. Acting like you’re assuming that you’ve got Ollie locked up if nothing better comes along is not going to pay dividends in the long run.

I have to get some actual work done myself today, but I wanted to respond to your request for my reasons for my opinion. I only have time for some of them, but the final thing I should mention is fit—and as I’ve suggested elsewhere, I think Stevens just is not a good fit here culturally for reasons I've mentioned before. The Northeast is very different from the Midwest. This ain't Hickory. For better or worse, most of the recruits we target have legitimate NBA aspirations. Our success in producing long-tenured NBA players is one of the greatest single selling points we have. If there is one asset Ollie has to compensate for his lack of head coaching experience, it is his NBA experience. What does Stevens have to show for that? What experience does he have coaching a team of several players with those aspirations? Do his system and style of play suggest that he can help them more than others? Otherwise, what does he have to sell the potential recruits we want to sell?

As you might expect, I have a lot more thoughts on this. But I’ll leave it there for now so I can get home on time tonight and not alienate my family.

8893 -you're the man! Totally agree on everything you posted, and like you, I have a lot more I could add. One of the best posts of the year!
 
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Coaches that have sucked this year:

  • Williams - lost to unranked Butler, was never in the game, obvious failure of a coach
  • Howland - lost to Georgetown team, struggled against Georgia
  • Izzo - lost to an undermanned, unranked UConn team with a first year coach (with no head coaching experience)
  • Stevens - lost to a Xavier team by 15, Xavier had no returning starters and only 8 scholarship players.
  • Calipari - he exists
  • Self - lost to MSU, who had just lost to UConn and flown thousands of miles
  • Gottfried - Lost to an unranked OKSt team, blown out
  • Drew - Well everyone knew he couldn't coach

Shaka @ VCU is putrid. Lost at home to unranked Wichita State who is picked 4th in the MVC.
 
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I actually don't completely disagree with the idea that many are Calhoun fans, Calhoun was the head coach of UConn for 26 years. He was UConn men's basketball for those 26 years.

I would argue most fans 30-35 and under never experienced a non-Calhoun team (prior to this year), or at the least they don't really remember pre-Calhoun teams.

For many younger fans it has nothing to do with not being a fan of UConn, or being a fan of Calhoun first. It's a simple matter of the two being inseparably and indelibly linked in many of the younger poster's minds. If you are a fan of UConn men's basketball you are a fan of Jim Calhoun.

Those in the older generation probably have fond memories of pre-Calhoun teams, however, I would guess that the younger generation quotient on an internet messageboard is fairly high. I'm betting you fall in the older, if not much older, category which is fine, but you can't expect younger posters to have the same fondness for the pre-Calhoun era.

As a 26-year old, this is spot on for me. UConn and Calhoun are nearly one and the same in my mind, tto the point that it's hard to imagine one without the other. Calhoun is UConn. Now Ollie is too.

I hope that in 20-30 years, I will be able to say the same thing, that all those young whippersnappers are Ollie fans.
 

CTBasketball

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Is Stevens a good coach? Yes. But there's no telling how well he'd do at a big-time program. The differences between Butler and UConn are huge. Big step up.
 
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Frankly, we also need to consider the other side of things. If I'm Brad Stevens, I need a lot to pull me from Butler, and if I'm going to go, I'm going to pick a school that has more conference stability than we do (and some of the came concerns that we have about him being out of his geographic home base are concerns that he should have too).

His predecessor at Butler jumped at the first big gig that came along and lasted three years at Iowa. He knows what can happen when you mess with a good thing.

As for his coaching ability, in his first year, he led a team he inherited to 30 wins and a sweet 16, and then brought in a whole new group (other than Matt Howard) that went to two NC games. That group is all gone (other than a couple bench guys), so this performance is essentially his third group that he has made a national splash with. Not too shabby.
As for us, right now, we have a guy who bleeds UConn colors and will happily guide us through any conference changes and deal with any obstacles he faces. He's not going to sit in the head coach's office and wonder what he got himself into. Maybe he doesn't pan out, but I'm content with him at the moment. Following a legend is tough, but that won't phase him.

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8893

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Frankly, we also need to consider the other side of things. If I'm Brad Stevens, I need a lot to pull me from Butler, and if I'm going to go, I'm going to pick a school that has more conference stability than we do (and some of the came concerns that we have about him being out of his geographic home base are concerns that he should have too).

His predecessor at Butler jumped at the first big gig that came along and lasted three years at Iowa. He knows what can happen when you mess with a good thing.

As for his coaching ability, in his first year, he led a team he inherited to 30 wins and a sweet 16, and then brought in a whole new group (other than Matt Howard) that went to two NC games. That group is all gone (other than a couple bench guys), so this performance is essentially his third group that he has made a national splash with. Not too shabby.
As for us, right now, we have a guy who bleeds UConn colors and will happily guide us through any conference changes and deal with any obstacles he faces. He's not going to sit in the head coach's office and wonder what he got himself into. Maybe he doesn't pan out, but I'm content with him at the moment. Following a legend is tough, but that won't phase him.

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Totally agree. As I mentioned in another thread, I don't think Stevens would see us as the best spot for him, either.
 

jleves

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Fair enough. Here goes:


It is simplistic because this is not a fantasy league. You don’t get to drop coaches, pick up other ones and immediately inherit their stats and successes, and then go back to the previous choice if that doesn’t work out, etc. Fit matters. Timing matters. Loyalty matters. Integrity matters. Tradition matters. Your word matters. I have no idea how old you are, but I see your mentality increasingly among the younger generation of young adults and I’m guessing that you are at least one generation younger than me chronologically and two in mindset (I'm 46). Perhaps it’s a function of growing up in an instant gratification and increasingly removed and detached world that is less accustomed to real time, in person, human interaction. I don’t know what it is, but I know that you can’t just treat people like parts, and your approach assumes that you can.

It is misguided and evidences a fundamental misunderstanding for several reasons, the most fundamental of which is the timing. You said you would take Stevens “all day long right now” if you think you can get him come April. That’s actually one course of action that is even worse than what Manuel did. I can understand wanting to bring in a proven “name” coach who is viewed as the next up-and-comer du jour, like Stevens, Smart or Miller (I think Stevens is the worst choice of the three for UConn, but I’ll come back to that). But if that’s what you were set on doing, you don’t give Ollie and the world your word that you are going to give Ollie a legitimate shot to earn it. In that event, you put the interim tag on Blaney, Hobbs or Miller and you start your national search and auditions outside the program now, with it known that you will be making a new hire by the Spring. Having told Ollie and the world that he has shot to earn the spot permanently, you have to give him that shot. And it has to be a real shot. If it’s just a façade to placate everyone for a short while, you will certainly alienate every ounce of institutional good will you have with respect ties to Calhoun and the players who played for him. Good luck funding your practice facility. But most importantly, you will have lied, and that will never, ever be forgotten by anybody, including your new hire. Which, in turn, means that you will never be trusted, and you can expect to be treated the same by those with whom you deal. In other words, your new head coach knows that you can’t be trusted, too, and he’ll continue to keep his eyes out for better opportunities to jump to if (more likely, when) you hit a rough patch. If you read the recent AO interview, that is exactly his mentality. And he is being killed here for it. Because, here, loyalty matters. It’s what Calhoun sold and it is what Ollie is selling. If you want to change the culture, ties and bedrock principles on which Calhoun built the program, the fastest way to do that is to do what you suggest.

The other most fundamental problem is that you simply don’t believe in Ollie and his ability to be successful here. That’s fine, but at least have the courage to admit it. All the hopes and good thoughts are nice, but what else are you going to say? Of course you’re not rooting against him. Who would? But believing in his ability to succeed is something entirely different, and what you and others are suggesting shows unequivocally that you are betting against him because you want to go in an entirely different direction right now. Again, if that’s what you want to do, you don’t lead him on. And you don’t have the luxury of keeping him around as your second (more likely fifth, I’m guessing) choice. He won’t be there once he knows that. Your word matters. If he knows you’re just waiting for something better to come along, he’ll do the same. You think Calhoun would have turned down South Carolina if he though that’s what the AD thought of him? These are people. They react to what they observe. Acting like you’re assuming that you’ve got Ollie locked up if nothing better comes along is not going to pay dividends in the long run.

I have to get some actual work done myself today, but I wanted to respond to your request for my reasons for my opinion. I only have time for some of them, but the final thing I should mention is fit—and as I’ve suggested elsewhere, I think Stevens just is not a good fit here culturally for reasons I've mentioned before. The Northeast is very different from the Midwest. This ain't Hickory. For better or worse, most of the recruits we target have legitimate NBA aspirations. Our success in producing long-tenured NBA players is one of the greatest single selling points we have. If there is one asset Ollie has to compensate for his lack of head coaching experience, it is his NBA experience. What does Stevens have to show for that? What experience does he have coaching a team of several players with those aspirations? Do his system and style of play suggest that he can help them more than others? Otherwise, what does he have to sell the potential recruits we want to sell?

As you might expect, I have a lot more thoughts on this. But I’ll leave it there for now so I can get home on time tonight and not alienate my family.

First, I decided we can address the personal stuff off line - nobody here wants to hear how old you think I am or my response that.

1st paragraph: I agree it's not a fantasy league and I wasn't just dropping in a hot name. There are many coaches I would go with in a fantasy league before Stevens. There has been some media attention given to the idea that Stevens may have turned down the last big offer because he might want to consider a shot at UConn when Calhoun retired. Who knows how accurate or correct that is? But it's out there so that's why we're talking about Stevens and not Smart or Coach K or Izzo. While I agree tradition, loyalty and integrity matters, a lot of that goes out the window when it comes to producing results at this level. It's a business first and if you don't believe that, you have missed all the crap around conference realignment. The bottom line for the AD is he has to keep UConn on the map and winning if he wants to keep his job. At this level, people are parts and if you can get a better part, you get it. You 'recruit over' (hate that term) your two year point guard if he isn't working out the way you thought. You strongly suggest a bench player would get more playing time elsewhere to free up a scholarship. That in no way is a reflection on how I think about people - it's a reflection of the system. It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with reality. If this was kumbaya let's keep everyone happy, I'd give Ollie a 30 year contract today. But that's not how it works and I prefer to deal with reality rather than peewee football where everyone gets a trophy.

2nd paragraph: You have some contradiction in giving Ollie a 7 month contract and telling him he has a shot to get the gig long term and them maybe going elsewhere. It's actually the most honest way you can treat the guy. He has the team for 30 games. At the end of that, the AD will evaluate that effort vs what is available and make a decision. He has a shot to run the team for a year and see how he does. If he shows great coaching acumen, he'll be considered as the long term coach. If there is something better after that trial period, he'll go another direction. It's way more honest than giving him a three year contract and buying it out after one year cause he doesn't like what he's seen. The AD has an obligation to the University, not the former coach, to put the basketball program on the best footing he can. To do anything other than giving a totally unproven coach a one year trial and then evaluating would be remiss in his duties. Nobody knew what we have (and still don't). What if we're 0-5 right now with kids having attitudes and not caring. Would you want a 3+ year contract in that situation? Coach Ollie is being evaluated on what he can do and there's nothing wrong with that and at the end of the year, you have to make the best decision for UConn - not Coach Ollie or Coach Calhoun. You can bring in tradition, loyalty and such in that decision when it comes due, but those things aren't the entirety of what makes up the final decision on a future UConn coach. As for the practice facility, the majority of that money will not come from former players, it will come from long term donors. Long term donors want a winning program, not a happy ex coach. The people giving most of the money have been around a lot longer than JC has been here. They want to see winning UConn basketball and couldn't give a rats ass if Calhoun's guy is getting that done or a guy from the midwest. Finally, if you go elsewhere, you didn't lie - you gave him 7 months to run the program and see how he stacks up to what is available. If you gave someone else an interim title, you gave him no shot. If he or someone else is chosen in April/May, it will be a multi year contract - nobody will be on a short trial. Bedrock, as you call it, for this program is winning and if you bring in someone else who wins, everybody will be on board. You and me included.

3rd paragraph: I don't believe Ollie can't be successful. I honestly think he can. At least I hope he can. OK - again, he's totally unproven and he's playing with a bad hand. Great win again MSU, but since then, the team doesn't look good. While the front court is mild, they have one of the best back courts in bball. They shouldn't be losing to or going into double overtime against mid majors. JC had some bad hands and they almost never lost to teams like this. That seriously concerns me. If you have watched the last three games and aren't concerned about their ability to execute then you might be missing something. How many times do you have to see Olander take an 18 footer or get the ball down low and never think about passing out, or how many times do you need to see Boat gamble on defense only to see the rest of the defense be put in a bad position or how many times do you need to see a team with much better athletes get out rebounded by mid majors before you start to question how they are being coached? If he doesn't want to be my, or more importantly, the ADs 5th choice, he has to fix some of these things. We're better than these teams and it isn't showing.

4th paragraph: Your concerns about Stevens are totally legitimate and like Ollie being the coach going forward, there's no telling what happens if UConn goes with someone like Stevens. But, I can also take your concerns and turn them into positives. Imagine if he can take non NBA players to national championships, what he could do with NBA players. Imagine if he suddenly has a footprint to recruit in the North East and still has a pipeline to the midwest. Imagine if he can game plan totally new concepts with better players. For my money a coach that can show he can do it with less talent, ala Jim Calhoun, can probably do great things with better talent.

My final thought on this - remove yourself from the emotion/sentiment of wanting Ollie to succeed and be the next coach and put yourself in this position. You are suddenly the AD for UConn and there are only two options. You do a great job and keep your job for 10 years and then retire with benefits for life or if you don't do a great job, you get fired and never get another job in your life. ie. It's do or die. Not only is your job on the line, but your way of life. Do you choose Coach Ollie or do you go with something more probable to keep your job, your wife and kids eating, etc.? And something more likely to keep the program winning?
 
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jleves, that was Smart who may have turned down Illinois for a shot at UConn, not Stevens.
 

8893

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@jleves:

It was Smart, not Stevens, who reportedly turned down his last offer because he had his eye on the UConn job.

The business of conference realignment is different than the business of hiring a head coach. The schools all know they are lying to each other and that it's every man for himself no matter what they say to each other. That's business and that's survival and they all understand that. Individuals do not forgive or forget being lied to by other individuals whom they trusted about their jobs, and other people who are aware of it do not trust the liar. It gets around pretty quickly.

You said you wanted to choose Stevens over Ollie right now. You did not say you were willing to give Ollie even the rest of this season to prove himself worthy of the job. That's what I was responding to. That's why I said it was a lie to pretend you were giving him a tryout. Manuel may be, and I hope he is. Taking you at your word that started this discussion, you are not giving him the chance. That's why I said you should never have pretended that you are.

If I was faced with Manuel's decision, I either would have gone the interim route with Hobbs while performing a national search, or I would have given Ollie a two-season contract, with both a buyout and an option for a third year. Most likely the latter, but either would have been good, defensible choices. I do not think what Manuel did is; and I still maintain that what you suggest is the worst of all possible choices. You admit that he's playing with a bad hand, but you're the one that dealt it to him. And in the next breath you claim that he should be doing better than he is with this team. I don't share your belief about that; this team had serious problems last year, and I don't know how anyone expected that to improve with the premature departures of three starters. No doubt both Bazz and Boat are very good players, but I was not sold on their chemistry last season and I'm still not now. I don't want to belabor that point because that's not our focus here, except that I don't think Wooden in his prime would be doing any better with this team up to this point. Your approach means either you are giving Ollie no shot at all, or that you've already seen enough to decide that you don't want him. I simply don't find either one of those options remotely fair or acceptable ways of dealing with this situation or the people involved with it.

All of which really underscores the fundamental issue: You don't believe in Ollie. Everything you say screams it, especially when you dance around it by saying that you "hope" and "think" he can be successful, and that "you don't believe that [he] can't be." It is telling that you can't say that you believe that he will be successful. You may recall that "believing" was the entire theme Calhoun stressed on the day he retired, both in explaining how he did what he did to build the program, and what it would take for Ollie to be successful.

And it's fine not to believe in him. But you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Really could not disagree more with your belief that people are parts at this, or any, level. But especially not here. And if that's the direction the program goes, I will lose interest in it. I have professional sports for that already. Yeah, college sports are becoming more and more of a professional business every day, but there's a reason why college basketball is my favorite sport of all. The more it becomes indistinguishable from pro sports, the less use I will have for it. Its differences are what attract me, but perhaps I'm a dinosaur.
 
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Some great discussion between Jleves and 8893. Nice job guys.

The jury is in deliberation. Verdict after we stuff our faces with turkey and pumpkin pie. :D
 
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My final thought on this - remove yourself from the emotion/sentiment of wanting Ollie to succeed and be the next coach and put yourself in this position. You are suddenly the AD for UConn and there are only two options. You do a great job and keep your job for 10 years and then retire with benefits for life or if you don't do a great job, you get fired and never get another job in your life. ie. It's do or die. Not only is your job on the line, but your way of life. Do you choose Coach Ollie or do you go with something more probable to keep your job, your wife and kids eating, etc.? And something more likely to keep the program winning?
That is neither how we nor any AD should think about this. The AD has a fiduciary responsibility to UConn as a whole. Making decisions based on one's personal security or financial security has nothing to do with it and could easily lead to CYA type actions or faulty decision making process as personal success should be an ancillary benefit/result. At any job top or bottom you do things the right way first. All the other stuff comes from making thoughtful decisions not from deciding based on some fear about or desire to guarantee your personal future
 
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I think he changed his name to Brad Masters I heard that somewhere
 

CL82

NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions - Again!
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I think he changed his name to Brad Masters I heard that somewhere

Okay now you are just baiting him. Yes, I did just call you a Masters baiter.
 

caw

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BTW Butler did get crushed by Illinois yesterday.
 
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