OT: Hats off to Tom Brady

[HuskyHawk]

Quarterbacks get all the glory, terrible time to be a defensive player or running back. It's always been a qb centric league but now it's to the point of absurdity...the way all the rules are now designed for the qb, the way they're coddled, and glorified sometimes makes it seem like it's just the qb's out there.

It frustrates me. So many dumb football fans out there. My fellow Patriots fans are all concerned about the next QB, and upgrading the "weapons", better WR, TE etc. Sure, they need a guy to throw the ball. Between veterans and the draft, there are more of them than there are teams right now. QB is the most important position, but the caliber of play is now very high across the league.

What I'm concerned about are a pro-bowl C and LG that are free agents to be, mediocre left tackle play, and a DL that is the worst Patriots DL I've seen since before Parcells arrived. The LB Corps, aside from Hightower (assuming he comes back) and rookie Uche, is terrible.

So we get hot takes about trading everything for Watson, when we need a competent QB, maybe one WR with speed, and to put everything else into the front 7 and OL.

 

[Scoe]

Nope. Eli is not hall of fame caliber. 2 super bowl wins/ rings - yes. Great accomplishment. And I'm a Giants fan.

Not all time great but HOF if you look at who is in there such as Namath look at the stats and the durability factor. Those 2 rings on those playoff runs and beating Brady on game winning drives do matter they absolutely matter or else there wouldnt even be a discussion about Eli and the HOF, Eli beating an undefeated team will have the same historical significance as Namath winning the Super Bowl setting up the merger. It will help that Eli has the anti Schilling relationship with the media and being in the NY market and Peyton will have some pull with getting Eli in I'm sure, not even offering my opinion just stating what will probably happen.

Big Ben has had more Super Bowl caliber teams then Eli and should have more then 2 superbowls. Im gonna go out on a limb that if Eli had the same team, coaching and front office as Big Ben after 2011 he would have at least a 3rd Super Bowl win.

 

[superjohn]

It frustrates me. So many dumb football fans out there. My fellow Patriots fans are all concerned about the next QB, and upgrading the "weapons", better WR, TE etc. Sure, they need a guy to throw the ball. Between veterans and the draft, there are more of them than there are teams right now. QB is the most important position, but the caliber of play is now very high across the league.

What I'm concerned about are a pro-bowl C and LG that are free agents to be, mediocre left tackle play, and a DL that is the worst Patriots DL I've seen since before Parcells arrived. The LB Corps, aside from Hightower (assuming he comes back) and rookie Uche, is terrible.

So we get hot takes about trading everything for Watson, when we need a competent QB, maybe one WR with speed, and to put everything else into the front 7 and OL.

Exactly, if you have great line play you can win with most starting quarterbacks, it's a wide open game now designed for QB play. Brady got great protection, Rodgers All-pro tackle was out and both of Mahomes All-pro tackles and his All-pro guard were out and he got no protection. Bowles should get the most credit, he was able to get constant pressure all while doubling and keeping Tyreek Hill in front of them.

Daniel Jones is a prefect example, people who say he sucks while totally disregarding the fact he's been running for his life since he's a Giant and the Giants prioritize skill positions over line play, you see it with other teams too.

 

[Deepster]

Not all time great but HOF if you look at who is in there such as Namath look at the stats and the durability factor. Those 2 rings on those playoff runs and beating Brady on game winning drives do matter they absolutely matter or else there wouldnt even be a discussion about Eli and the HOF, Eli beating an undefeated team will have the same historical significance as Namath winning the Super Bowl setting up the merger. It will help that Eli has the anti Schilling relationship with the media and being in the NY market and Peyton will have some pull with getting Eli in I'm sure, not even offering my opinion just stating what will probably happen.

Big Ben has had more Super Bowl caliber teams then Eli and should have more then 2 superbowls. Im gonna go out on a limb that if Eli had the same team, coaching and front office as Big Ben after 2011 he would have at least a 3rd Super Bowl win.

Calvin Johnson just got in. Really, he had 3 maybe 4 "HOF" caliber years. For 3 seasons (2011-12-13) he was uncoverable. Pretty routine otherwise. Almost like Don Mattingly's stats in baseball. Generally, I think the Football HOF is pretty squishy on the "guidelines" to get in.

 

[Umami Zen]

Quarterbacks get all the glory, terrible time to be a defensive player or running back. It's always been a qb centric league but now it's to the point of absurdity...the way all the rules are now designed for the qb, the way they're coddled, and glorified sometimes makes it seem like it's just the qb's out there.

As HOF LB for the Steelers.Jack Lambert once said. "They should just put a skirt on the QBs to distinguish them from the real players".

Brady needs a line to keep him upright and give him the time to read the defense and react. He does this as well as anyone. However,he would probably lose a 100yd dash race to Gisele 7 out of 10 times.

BTW. No one knows the value of linemen more than Tom B. He's still playing at 43 because of their protection.

If they allowed coaches to receive SB MVP votes. Bowles would have gotten my vote.

 

[Scoe]

Brady put his team in position to take over the game. He would probably even tell you himself he couldn't get into a shoot out against Rodgers and Mahomes. TB has more talent overall then the Chiefs more weapons too Brady isnt stupid. If KC had an early lead and Brady tried to get into a shootout with Mahomes its probably a different game.

 

[Scoe]

Maybe athletes shouldn't be in State Farm commercials anymore if they wanna win. Chris Paul, and James Harden, then Rodgers and Mahomes, not to mention Drake in that commercial was a bad omen. Getting a team haircut also was a bad omen your supposed to grow a playoff beard or playoff hair not cut it off.

 

[Waquoit]

As HOF LB for the Steelers Jack Lambert once said. "They should just put a skirt on the QBs to distinguish them from the real players".

That was silly, even at the time.

 

[superjohn]

That was silly, even at the time.

Was a little silly for the time because QB's back then got mauled, it's really accurate for today's game.

 

[Husky25]

The more Brady wins the more it helps Eli’s case for the hall of fame.

How?

 

[Scoe]

How?

Look at the history and think about it. Look at the teams in superbowls that were more talented then those Giants team like the Legion of Boom Seahawks, the Falcons, the Chiefs who shook in their boots against Brady, could even argue the Rams were more talented. Yes its a team sport and qbs tend to get more credit then they deserve when they win. The Hall of fame will factor in Eli having 2 gw super bowl drives against Brady and the Pats (you can call it what you want undeserved whatever). It will be a factor though.

 

[MexicoHusky]

He's transcended that, man. It's just the truth. As much as any NY fan wants to deny it, it's time more than ever to start putting Tom up against the greatest athletes who have ever existed, not just NFL players.

Very true. But I'm not sure you even take it far enough. Brady appears to be on some sort of quest to maximize his potential and maximize life in general. So a strict discussion about sports and his place in sports doesn't quite do Brady justice.

The haters on this post want to stress that Eli beat him twice. Which is cool. Good for Eli. I rooted for him as well. But Brady's accomplishments should probably be compared to less typical athletes. Or they can be. Alex Honnald, Evel Knievel....those guys aren't quite right considering the risks they took.... but someone like that. Someone on a different life journey.

This is why I think the story/narrative about Brady is likely to change. He's not just trying to be the best at football.... I mean he is. But he's doing something else as well. Something that his football peers didn't really do. Or if they did, it wasn't apparent.

It's funny because I've tried to comment about this in this thread already. I was labeled as a Brady Fan Boi. I suppose I am, but not really because what he's done on the football field. Like anyone on this board who was born in Connecticut in the 70s and grew up in the 80s and early 90s. I was a Giants fan. The Patriots mostly sucked in that time frame. So the GMen were the only option.

 

[Waquoit]

Was a little silly for the time because QB's back then got mauled, it's really accurate for today's game.

Nah, grown-ups don't use "wear a skirt" as a pejorative anymore.

 

[superjohn]

Nah, grown-ups don't use "wear a skirt" as a pejorative anymore.

Lolz, the locution is the problem.

 

[superjohn]

Craziest part is I'm sure Brady will be the favorite to win again next year, Tampa is absolutely loaded.

 

[CL82]

So who is the GOAT?

 

[8893]

Craziest part is I'm sure Brady will be the favorite to win again next year, Tampa is absolutely loaded.

I read this morning that the Chiefs are the favorites for next year, followed by Tampa and Green Bay.

 

[Waterbury]

I read this morning that the Chiefs are the favorites for next year, followed by Tampa and Green Bay.

Every here knows to put your money on Br8dy. An investment on that man is never a bad one.

 

[jdb50]

I am not a Brady fan. Been a life long Giants fan. I was rooting for the Pats against the Bears. The only Super Bowl he played in that I wanted the Patriots to win was the first one and mainly because of Tebucky Jones being on the team. Brady's preparation and understanding of the game so that he rarely makes mistakes are his keys to success. Then he consistently makes accurate throws. The TD to Antonio Brown was amazingly accurate. Brady's workout nutrition regime keep him looking like he is not aging. Another thing he he has done his whole career is not take many hits. For him to go from the Pats and wind up on a team that protected him quite well was a great business decision. It takes some luck too for your O-line to stay healthy. If Brady had KC's offensive line yesterday with his current state of mobility and had to face Tampa's D he would be announcing his retirement today.

 

[Kolumbo]

That interception was a game changer. Let's face it. Whether it was the refs or bad defensive plays, he's one lucky sob.

 

[HitDog]

Calvin Johnson just got in. Really, he had 3 maybe 4 "HOF" caliber years. For 3 seasons (2011-12-13) he was uncoverable. Pretty routine otherwise. Almost like Don Mattingly's stats in baseball. Generally, I think the Football HOF is pretty squishy on the "guidelines" to get in.

Speaking of Calvin Johnson another one of those things that I find “interesting “.


from peter king's column this morning

• April 2000. Tom Brady drafted by the Patriots. Calvin Johnson is in eighth grade in Tyrone, Ga.

• February 2002. Brady wins his first Super Bowl in New England. Johnson’s midway through his sophomore year in high school.

• January 2004. Brady on his way to his second Super Bowl title. Johnson, a wide receiver, commits to Georgia Tech.

• April 2007. Brady about to embark on his first MVP season, and the Patriots’ 16-0 regular season. Johnson drafted second overall by Detroit.

• February 2012. Brady plays in his fifth Super Bowl, losing to the Giants. Johnson sets an NFL single-season record with 1,964 receiving yards.

• March 2016. Brady, coming off a season with a league-leading 36 TD passes, says he’ll play into his forties. Johnson, 30, announces his retirement after nine seasons.

• November 2016. Brady en route to fifth Super Bowl title at 39. Johnson and partner Lindsay Arnold finish third in Dancing With the Stars, acing “Tutti Frutti” on the final number.

• February 2019. Brady and the Pats top the Rams for his sixth Super Bowl title. Johnson and his wife open a cannabis dispensary in Michigan.

• February 2021. Brady, 43, plays in his 10th Super Bowl in Tampa. Johnson, 35, elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame five years after retiring.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I read this morning that the Chiefs are the favorites for next year, followed by Tampa and Green Bay.

Tampa's defense looked great yesterday but with a reasonably competent offensive line for Mahomes it would have been a different story. Makes sense for them to be 1-2 with Tampa going into next season.

 

[Umami Zen]

Tampa's defense looked great yesterday but with a reasonably competent offensive line for Mahomes it would have been a different story. Makes sense for them to be 1-2 with Tampa going into next season.

No question Patrick would have had more time with his best OL guys.. But as we know in the NFL with injuries its a war of attrition over the course of a season. At the end of the year and during playoff time. You don't always have all of the guys you started the year with and you have to play with the guys you have.

"Stuff" happens and you have to deal with it.

 

[87Xfer]

Calvin Johnson just got in. Really, he had 3 maybe 4 "HOF" caliber years. For 3 seasons (2011-12-13) he was uncoverable. Pretty routine otherwise. Almost like Don Mattingly's stats in baseball. Generally, I think the Football HOF is pretty squishy on the "guidelines" to get in.

Yikes, totally forgot about Johnson.

 

[auror]

Calvin Johnson just got in. Really, he had 3 maybe 4 "HOF" caliber years. For 3 seasons (2011-12-13) he was uncoverable. Pretty routine otherwise. Almost like Don Mattingly's stats in baseball. Generally, I think the Football HOF is pretty squishy on the "guidelines" to get in.

He has the all time single season receiving yards record. Would be hard to leave him out. Like leaving out Eric Dickerson (they actually had pretty similar career totals and both 6x pro bowlers, Dickerson had 1 extra year and 1 extra all pro).

 

[Husky25]

Look at the history and think about it. Look at the teams in superbowls that were more talented then those Giants team like the Legion of Boom Seahawks, the Falcons, the Chiefs who shook in their boots against Brady, could even argue the Rams were more talented. Yes its a team sport and qbs tend to get more credit then they deserve when they win. The Hall of fame will factor in Eli having 2 gw super bowl drives against Brady and the Pats (you can call it what you want undeserved whatever). It will be a factor though.

Manning and Brady played the same position and were never on the field at the same time. Eli's team played Brady's, The two never played each other. Brady's performance has no bearing on Eli's or vice versa.

 

[FriarJ]

As HOF LB for the Steelers.Jack Lambert once said. "They should just put a skirt on the QBs to distinguish them from the real players".

Brady needs a line to keep him upright and give him the time to read the defense and react. He does this as well as anyone. However,he would probably lose a 100yd dash race to Gisele 7 out of 10 times.

BTW. No one knows the value of linemen more than Tom B. He's still playing at 43 because of their protection.

If they allowed coaches to receive SB MVP votes. Bowles would have gotten my vote.

LOL, many many QB's have had great offensive lines. Where he separates himself is he gets rid of the ball quicker than anyone who has played and he has an otherworldly pocket presence to go along with incredible calm foot movement around the inside of the pocket. Brett Favre said this weekend that he has talked to many other HOF QB's and they all agree to a man that that is what separates him from the rest and if they could have one trait of Brady that would have made them better players they all say it's his pocket presence and ability to read quickly.

 

[UconnU]

As HOF LB for the Steelers.Jack Lambert once said. "They should just put a skirt on the QBs to distinguish them from the real players".

Brady needs a line to keep him upright and give him the time to read the defense and react. He does this as well as anyone. However,he would probably lose a 100yd dash race to Gisele 7 out of 10 times.

BTW. No one knows the value of linemen more than Tom B. He's still playing at 43 because of their protection.

If they allowed coaches to receive SB MVP votes. Bowles would have gotten my vote.

Very true that lines are super undervalued especially interior lineman. But Brady has won super bowls with bad lines. He had a makeshift line with a bunch of journeymen in a couple of his Super Bowls. His line this year wasn’t great much of the year. He’s made a living on quick hitters; the slant, slips, screens, etc. He doesn’t really need much time.

 

[Deepster]

He has the all time single season receiving yards record. Would be hard to leave him out. Like leaving out Eric Dickerson (they actually had pretty similar career totals and both 6x pro bowlers, Dickerson had 1 extra year and 1 extra all pro).

Meh. Look at Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald and Randy Moss. Johnson didn’t have near the ticker those guys have.

 

[upstater]

This is amazing. Dan O says Mahomes scrambled, before throwing, for 458 yards. He also said it it was a "clinical mauling" of the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball by Tampa. I agree. Brady had all day, and the Chiefs OL looked like me playing OL on a UConn intramural team (we did win the title).

I thought it was an amazing stat until I considered that if you drop back 7-10 yards on 60 passes, that's 510 yards. Given what I saw of him evading tacklers every which way, I now think he probably ran for 800 yards.