Has Conference Realignment at Last Reached a Lull?

[StevieDude]

I don't know anything about the Big Ten, never watch the Big Ten, and don't have any real interest in the Big Ten. Therefore I have not a clue what the Big Ten bylaws are. I've never read them or seen them in my life. I know how their teams perform against national competition in the major sports and some others, but that's about it. I have to look up anything to talk about it.

I must say this board was readable on your hiatus. Do you have a vacation coming up?

 

[upstater]

Point being agreed to Big Exit Penalties in both cases, therefore neither are punitive. Pay up!

They agreed to a $20m exit penalty in the poor league and a GOR in the rich league.

Are you dense?

 

[06029]

They agreed to a $20m exit penalty in the poor league and a GOR in the rich league.

Are you dense?

Except the league they are leaving has a fee more than $20 million. Isn't that what this is all about? It went up to over $50mm and that is what MD does not want to pay even though it was (assumption on my part coming up) agreed to and approved by the conference in accordance with its bylaws. As part of the ACC at the time it was passed and implemented, MD was subject to it, unless a court decides otherwise. They had not accepted an invite to the B1G before it was approved.

Sometimes, when you are part of a larger group, you don't get what you vote for but you still have to abide by the result. Of course, given some recent rulings by the SCOTUS, I have serious doubts about that being correct going forward.

 

[btstimpy]

They agreed to a $20m exit penalty in the poor league and a GOR in the rich league.

Are you dense?

Maryland agreed to be bound by the bylaws of the conference that state that the vote of a certain percentage of the council of presidents binds the entire membership to what it votes on. Maryland voted against adding Florida State to the league, but last I checked FSU is a member. They don't have to be part of the majority that passes legislation to be bound by it.

I know the difference in a GOR and exit fee, but both carry a financial component and the one they just signed up for is larger than the one they are disputing. So if you signed up for one bigger than what you are claiming is too big, you look quite silly.

 

[Pat125]

Except the league they are leaving has a fee more than $20 million. Isn't that what this is all about? It went up to over $50mm and that is what MD does not want to pay even though it was (assumption on my part coming up) agreed to and approved by the conference in accordance with its bylaws. As part of the ACC at the time it was passed and implemented, MD was subject to it, unless a court decides otherwise. They had not accepted an invite to the B1G before it was approved.

Sometimes, when you are part of a larger group, you don't get what you vote for but you still have to abide by the result. Of course, given some recent rulings by the SCOTUS, I have serious doubts about that being correct going forward.

However, Maryland is arguing that the ACC did not follow its own bylaws when the next exit fee "passed." and the question also is if the new fee is punitive. Maryland agreed to join the Big Ten shortly after the new exit fee "passed."

You are right that any member would be bound by any by-laws (that did not violate the law), that were passed using the proper procedures, even if opposed. The court will decide if the exit fee was passed in a valid manner, and if the exit fee is legal.

Further, if any other university was under similar circumstances, only the most incompetent and imbecilic president would have accepted the new exit fee.

 

[bobbyinaz]

I don't know anything about the Big Ten, never watch the Big Ten, and don't have any real interest in the Big Ten. Therefore I have not a clue what the Big Ten bylaws are. I've never read them or seen them in my life. I know how their teams perform against national competition in the major sports and some others, but that's about it. I have to look up anything to talk about it.

You are so full of !!!!! You troll every conference realignment board on the internet, you have spent the last year on the BY talking about the B1G and now you have the balls to say you "don't know anything about the Big Ten, never watch the Big Ten, and don't have any real interest in the Big Ten". Get the duck out of here & go die in a hole!!!!!

Sorry Fishy, if you need to send me to timeout for a while I'll understand but I can't take this jerkoff anymore

 

[06029]

However, Maryland is arguing that the ACC did not follow its own bylaws when the next exit fee "passed." and the question also is if the new fee is punitive. Maryland agreed to join the Big Ten shortly after the new exit fee "passed."

You are right that any member would be bound by any by-laws (that did not violate the law), that were passed using the proper procedures, even if opposed. The court will decide if the exit fee was passed in a valid manner, and if the exit fee is legal.

Further, if any other university was under similar circumstances, only the most incompetent and imbecilic president would have accepted the new exit fee.

Which is why I said it was an assumption on my part. If the ACC did not learn from the BE to dot the i's and cross the t's when changing fees, they deserve to lose. That is what gets decided first.

The punitive question is another whole issue that becomes moot if the increase was not passed correctly. Assuming (see I said it again) it was, then punitive is MD's only hope. Not knowing how a court interprets punitive in NC, MD may want to settle for higher than $20mm if they lose the procedure point.

 

[btstimpy]

You are so full of !!!!! You troll every conference realignment board on the internet, you have spent the last year on the BY talking about the B1G and now you have the balls to say you "don't know anything about the Big Ten, never watch the Big Ten, and don't have any real interest in the Big Ten". Get the out of here & go die in a hole!!!!!

Sorry Fishy, if you need to send me to timeout for a while I'll understand but I can't take this jerkoff anymore

I said I know how their teams perform and their records in the major sports and some others, but I don't know Big Ten bylaws, and I don't have or watch the BTN. I really don't. I was responding to someone who said I should know the Big Ten Exit Fee. How the hell should I know? I've never seen the bylaws.

 

[StevieDude]

I said I know how their teams perform and their records in the major sports and some others, but I don't know Big Ten bylaws, and I don't have or watch the BTN. I really don't. I was responding to someone who said I should know the Big Ten Exit Fee. How the hell should I know? I've never seen the bylaws.

I have to agree with bobby you are a jerkoff

 

[pj]

Did you actually read this Stimpy? The three attorneys aren't NC counsel so that asked for permission to represent MD in NC courts for this case only. Two of the three weren't allowed to the third one was. That's a different thing then being "kicked off the case"

Here's the actual order

Yeah ... it's not unusual to have your main attorneys do all the out-of-court strategy and legal argument work and have some local attorney represent you in the courtroom. The judge didn't say these attorneys couldn't work for Maryland, just that they couldn't represent them in court. Small loss.

 

[Pat125]

Which is why I said it was an assumption on my part. If the ACC did not learn from the BE to dot the i's and cross the t's when changing fees, they deserve to lose. That is what gets decided first.

The punitive question is another whole issue that becomes moot if the increase was not passed correctly. Assuming (see I said it again) it was, then punitive is MD's only hope. Not knowing how a court interprets punitive in NC, MD may want to settle for higher than $20mm if they lose the procedure point.

I missed the "assumption" part. My apologies. I agree with your points.

 

[btstimpy]

I still say Virginia has reason to move, but they need a partner.

I missed this. Where are we supposed to be going? As far as I can tell, we're in the best possible place we could be already.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I missed this. Where are we supposed to be going? As far as I can tell, we're in the best possible place we could be already.

Happens to all of us...

 

[upstater]

I missed this. Where are we supposed to be going? As far as I can tell, we're in the best possible place we could be already.

$20m

 

[upstater]

Maryland agreed to be bound by the bylaws of the conference that state that the vote of a certain percentage of the council of presidents binds the entire membership to what it votes on. Maryland voted against adding Florida State to the league, but last I checked FSU is a member. They don't have to be part of the majority that passes legislation to be bound by it.

I know the difference in a GOR and exit fee, but both carry a financial component and the one they just signed up for is larger than the one they are disputing. So if you signed up for one bigger than what you are claiming is too big, you look quite silly.

They tried to leave as soon as the exit fee became onerous.

 

[specialisthusky]

Maryland's Lawyers just got tossed off the case.
http://www.ncbusinesslitigationrepo...sity-of-marylands-lawyers-on-a-pro-hac-basis/

Do you know what the size of the Big Ten Exit Fee is? If it is higher than the ACC's how can Maryland argue that the ACC's is punitive if it signed up for one larger in the B1G? I see zero reason for the ACC to settle for anything below $52 million.

How does one get thrown from a case they were never admitted pro hac?

 

[btstimpy]

How does one get thrown from a case they were never admitted pro hac?

If you want to call it blocked, that will work. In any event, they won't be there.

 

[specialisthusky]

If you want to call it blocked, that will work. In any event, they won't be there.

The Maryland AG and whatever seat fillers the nonadmitted attorneys hire as local counsel will do just fine.

 

[billybud]

They have statues in Richmond for Confederate heros. What do you expect?

My GG Grandfather, Thomas Pleasant Preston, and two of his brothers left Bedford, Virginia to fight for the CSA...and died in combat after a grueling defensive campaign.

Thomas P Preston died in the battle of Resaca and is buried in an unmarked grave. My GG Grandmother and her brother drove a wagon all of the way to the battle site to retrieve his body, only to find that his was one of the mass burials where soldiers were buried near where they fell.

I honor his valor as much as I honor the valor of my fathers G Grandfather who fought in the Wisconsin 3rd Cavalry, my father who fought in Normandy.

 

[btstimpy]

I must say that the one thing that causes me to doubt my reasons for Virginia not wanting to come to the Big Ten is that it lists every Big Ten University except Nebraska as its peer. GT, VT, FSU and NCST also list many Big Ten as peers as well. Because the Big Ten can provide extra money and has sound academics and the CIC, one can never totally exclude one ACC school leaving. And there are so many of them. You could say that the law of large numbers and time could work for the Big Ten. On the other hand, it has not yet worked for China with Taiwan.

Where is Virginia listing Big Ten schools as peer institutions? I've always seen UVA list Michigan as a peer institution along with North Carolina-Chapel Hill, William & Mary, and California-Berkley listed on a regular basis or spoken about in interviews with the UVA President. And I've seen some listings that include private institutions like Duke, Northwestern, Pennsylvania, and Vanderbilt due to some research associations. Just curious where the rest of the Big Ten are listed.

 

[CL82]

Point being agreed to Big Exit Penalties in both cases, therefore neither are punitive. Pay up!

You realize that just using the word "therefore" between two statements doesn't automatically win an argument, right?

"A dog is mammal, therefore fire trucks smell like lemons."

 

[billybud]

You realize that just using the word "therefore" between two statements doesn't automatically win an argument, right?

"A dog is mammal, therefore fire trucks smell like lemons."

Works for me....

Fire trucks always rushin', therefore they are painted red.

Fire trucks are painted red because there are 12 inches in a rule
and England rules the seas
And fish swim in the sea
and fish have fins
and the Finns fought the Russians
Russians are called the Reds
Fire engines are always rushin'
That's why they are painted red.

That bit about smelling like lemons was just a red herring, I'm onto you.

 

[Calamitous]

Where is Virginia listing Big Ten schools as peer institutions? I've always seen UVA list Michigan as a peer institution along with North Carolina-Chapel Hill, William & Mary, and California-Berkley listed on a regular basis or spoken about in interviews with the UVA President. And I've seen some listings that include private institutions like Duke, Northwestern, Pennsylvania, and Vanderbilt due to some research associations. Just curious where the rest of the Big Ten are listed.

Maybe UVa is being confused with VPI&SU I know my school lists every B1G school as a peer except for Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska and Indiana.

 

[Pat125]

You realize that just using the word "therefore" between two statements doesn't automatically win an argument, right?

"A dog is mammal, therefore fire trucks smell like lemons."

Here's another "valid" therefore argument.

I. M. Becile: I want to let you know I broke this item.
Merchant: No problem, it will be a $50 charge.
IMB: But the item only cost $20.
Merchant: We just voted and decided that it is now $50 and also unilaterally decided it is not punitive. Therefore, pay up.
IMB: Okay, here is my $50. If others get in this situation, I will assist you in obsessively insisting they pay $50, and forgo their rights to challenge your arbitrary decision.
Merchant: No thanks, that would be a bit too pathetic.

 

[btstimpy]

Maybe UVa is being confused with VPI&SU I know my school lists every B1G school as a peer except for Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska and Indiana.

I can see that because there are several land grant technical schools in the Big Ten. It could be listed somewhere by UVA, but I haven't seen it. I was just curious where he saw it listed.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

http://chronicle.com/article/Peers-Interactive-Data/134262/? Now to be fair, and to be sure that it is clear that I do not see my comments as gospel, UVA now lists Fifty-Nine schools. Maybe many of those schools are relative peers, but aside from schools like Wisconsin and Michigan, many might not be in the inner 20. I think that UVA's choices have been updated and grossly expanded (and thus less selective). Originally, I thought that UVA had around 10 choices and only Michigan was in that elite 10. In view of the current status of the Big Ten as an "invader", it is most interesting that so many ACC schools list Big Ten schools as "Peers." I was surprised. Check other ACC schools in tune with your degree of curiosity.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

Maybe UVa is being confused with VPI&SU I know my school lists every B1G school as a peer except for Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska and Indiana.

No, I did not confuse them. As I mentioned in another post, the lists on several schools seemed to have been expanded from a couple of months ago. Maybe the previous data was dated. And maybe some schools were waiting to be acknowledged first. As in exchanging Christmas cards and asking for signatures in a yearbook. Yes, I realize that College Administrators are adults, but I suppose that we can dismiss human frailties as a known quantity. BTW, I have no idea if VT would be at all interested in the Big Ten, but being a little less blue blood and traditional than UVA, it might consider a move to the Big Ten under favorable or necessary circumstances. And it is a fine school and an obvious football power. Not having AAU, but similar solid academics as with UConn could make a fine pair in my humble opinion.

 

[btstimpy]

http://chronicle.com/article/Peers-Interactive-Data/134262/? Now to be fair, and to be sure that it is clear that I do not see my comments as gospel, UVA now lists Fifty-Nine schools. Maybe many of those schools are relative peers, but aside from schools like Wisconsin and Michigan, many might not be in the inner 20. I think that UVA's choices have been updated and grossly expanded (and thus less selective). Originally, I thought that UVA had around 10 choices and only Michigan was in that elite 10. In view of the current status of the Big Ten as an "invader", it is most interesting that so many ACC schools list Big Ten schools as "Peers." I was surprised. Check other ACC schools in tune with your degree of curiosity.

Ok. That to me looks like they selected just about everyone in the AAU and called them peers. I guess in a way they could be. But the ones I mentioned (Michigan, California-Berkley, William & Mary, and North Carolina-Chapel Hill) are who I hear mentioned the most when someone from the UVA administration talks about it. William & Mary mostly because in the same state.

 

[billybud]

The whole Maryland-ACC thing is by now a little tired.

Not much to talk about...Maryland will pay something....the ACC & the Terps will then go on about their business....whether that payment be $20 million or $30 million doesn't seem that material.

 

[Calamitous]

BTW, I have no idea if VT would be at all interested in the Big Ten, but being a little less blue blood and traditional than UVA, it might consider a move to the Big Ten under favorable or necessary circumstances. And it is a fine school and an obvious football power. Not having AAU, but similar solid academics as with UConn could make a fine pair in my humble opinion.

I personally am more apt to lean toward the B1G than SEC if the ACC should crumble some day. But the B1G won't push for Tech unless 3 things happen: 1) Tech has to acquire AAU status and Steger/Tim Sands have them moving that way (maybe sooner than later), 2) Tech needs to grow and get the living alumni numbers larger (30K seems like a lot to me, but the B1G schools are much larger) and 3) Tech needs to expand it's athletic programs to have as many as 10 more new sports to be on the same page as the B1G. As for football power, I think that is more a myth lately. Tech is in the middle of the pack of the ACC these days, as they would in the B1G as well.

I do agree, of all the ACC schools, Tech fits the B1G profile the best. NC State and Clemson to a certain degree as well. UMCP was a perfect fit IMO. I do get frustrated by the ACC at times with the addition of all the private schools, but I understand where it all comes from. I'd love to see a new eastern conference with FSU, GT, Clemson, NCSU, UNC, VT, UVA, WVU, UMCP, PSU, Pitt, RU, Syracuse (the sole private school) and UCONN. That feels like the other P5s than the current ACC, to me at least.