Hartley and Stewart...

[Joe6cats]

Sorry, I tell it like it is and don't sugar coat things like I was talking about a 6 and under peewee team.

Yeah what fun. I don't get what it is about this team that draws such a chorus of self-righteous Gloomers. Tweaking the rosy expectations of most of us with fact-free hand-wringing must be cheap thrills. I guess nobody here here would begrudge you guys your fun, but in the face of far better informed responses from experienced husky fans, I'd think you guys would lighten it up.

 

[diggerfoot]

Is it my imagination...not being a statistics buff and not exactly sure where to find the info...that KML is a less effective offensive threat in the 2nd half.
If true goes along with my minutes concept posted in Nan's thread.
Hartley, Faris and KLM all played over 35 minutes yesterday.
Tuck played 3, Doty 4, and Mo 14
Injuries may play a role but isn't Kelly injured?
Seemed like ND was able to sub out its entire starting 5 in garbage time
On the other hand, their starters seemed sluggish in the first half.
I continue to have a difficult time understanding coach's master plan.

Sigh. I suppose it's because of your admirable "mea culpas" that I respect you rather than just deem you as a malcontent. Anyways, first some data.

Jefferson has the worst A/T ratio of a guard. She has the second worst T/min ratio. Admittedly, Hartley's is slightly worse than Jefferson's, but she also has a much higher A/min ratio. Fourteen minutes in a tournament game is not chopped liver, unless you are to be considered one of the regulars. I understand that data is not everything; the trillion plus synaptic connections in our brain allow us to make interpretations of experience that even a limited computer might miss. OK, then, here are my counter perceptions from last night.

When Syracuse pressed last night Jefferson looked flustered, Hartley did not. Granted, Hartley at times just lost focus and had some inexcusable plays, but she was up to the task of external adversity more than Jefferson. My problem with Hartley has never been with shooting, slashing or ball-handling. She just seems too slow to see plays develop in the post, either for post players or for other guards. Yet even in regards to that there's a reason why her A/min ratio is so much better than Jefferson's. It's not just that Jefferson is slow to see those plays develop, even when they develop right in front of her she seldom passes it in. Her passes are either around the perimeter or dishing off as she drives to the basket, and the latter occurs very rarely ... fans and opponents can pretty much assume she's going to take the shot herself if she's driving.

Ah, but that's your point, isn't it? Jefferson should have been given way more minutes before now, even though she has received more minutes than you realize. She would be a regular by now that's familiar with how teammates are going to move on the court and be the playmaker she's tabbed to be. Fine in theory. I mentioned earlier, if this was like the year when Montgomery was a freshman I have no doubt that Jefferson would have been given the keys early on and she would not be looking so flustered when Syracuse applies a press. I absolutely agree she could have been groomed to be a competent lead guard by the time postseason play came around.

Yet any good coach is going to look at his existing All-American guard and, noticing that there is a bit of a problem in seeing plays develop, would be thinking "all she needs is another season's experience," rather than immediately jump ship and groom a freshman for that role. In convenient armchair scapegoating hindsight we can go "Harumph! Auriemma should have been grooming Jefferson all along!" Perhaps even Auriemma is thinking that himself. Yet if he bailed on an All-American Hartley for a freshman to be the lead guard from near the beginning, a freshman he still gave significant minutes to throughout the year, he would be destroying team chemistry and sending out an unfortunate message to future recruits.

Let's forget all that now. UConn had a subpar performance against Syracuse in the conference tournament. Notre Dame and Baylor had even worse performances against even lower ranked opponents in the conference tournaments. You no doubt must conclude that McGraw and Mulkey must be even worse than Auriemma with their coaching strategies and tactics. I'd love to hear you elaborate on their obvious shortcomings.

 

[msf22b]

Doggy

Thanks for finding the KML stats

With regard the ND subbing pattern below,
I was just musing that she had a long enough bench to be able to do that. Your correction is spot on.
- - - - -
Seemed like ND was able to sub out its entire starting 5 in garbage time
On the other hand, their starters seemed sluggish in the first half.

McGraw was able to rest her starters as they built a huge lead. No comparison in the two games and strategy by the coaches.
____________________________________________________________________
Hartley, Faris and KLM all played over 35 minutes yesterday.
Tuck played 3, Doty 4, and Mo 14
Injuries may play a role but isn't Kelly injured?
Geno is going to play who he thinks will help UConn win the game. SU was pressuring hard and he wanted who he trusted the most out there. Nothing more, nothing less.


- - - - - - - -

Again, I'm sure you're statement is correct, but I continue to have a problem understanding the strategy, don't you?
Fsrris is somewhat injured and not playing her best, yet plays virtually the whole game.
Mo seems to be really effective yet plays limited minutes.
The game becomes a game in the 2nd half when our (perhaps) tiring (trusted) Vets. are wearing down, yet Morgan hardly gets in. Perhaps the answer is that they were playing 4 guards and the matchups didn't work...but that still does not explain the absence of Mo.


The real question is: can we not scrutinize and voice concern over these decisions?

 

[blackbird]

I don't think playing Jefferson had anything to do with Hartley. I would guess Hartley herself prefers to be the shooting guard. She certainly plays better when Jefferson is on the floor with her. She can help out Moriah, but she can also play off the ball..which is what she's best at. She's a combo guard, but asking her to play 40 minutes of PG against the best teams with little help from the person playing the point is just too much to ask. At the end of the day, DT got a lot more help from Maria than Bria was getting from Caroline, and that was a huge problem..especially considering Bria was struggling herself.

Geno's issue was always what to do with Caroline. He didn't want to do what was best for the team. He resisted doing what was best for the team. Caroline had to repeatedly prove to Geno that she just couldn't handle it in the big games for him to look elsewhere. He didn't want to have to do it. I didn't want him to have to do it either. But the reality was that Stewart and Moriah needed to get Caroline's minutes.

 

[doggydaddy]

Doggy

Thanks for finding the KML stats

With regard the ND subbing pattern below,
I was just musing that she had a long enough bench to be able to do that. Your correction is spot on.
- - - - -
Seemed like ND was able to sub out its entire starting 5 in garbage time
On the other hand, their starters seemed sluggish in the first half.

McGraw was able to rest her starters as they built a huge lead. No comparison in the two games and strategy by the coaches.
____________________________________________________________________
Hartley, Faris and KLM all played over 35 minutes yesterday.
Tuck played 3, Doty 4, and Mo 14
Injuries may play a role but isn't Kelly injured?
Geno is going to play who he thinks will help UConn win the game. SU was pressuring hard and he wanted who he trusted the most out there. Nothing more, nothing less.


- - - - - - - -

Again, I'm sure you're statement is correct, but I continue to have a problem understanding the strategy, don't you?
Fsrris is somewhat injured and not playing her best, yet plays virtually the whole game.
Mo seems to be really effective yet plays limited minutes.
The game becomes a game in the 2nd half when our (perhaps) tiring (trusted) Vets. are wearing down, yet Morgan hardly gets in. Perhaps the answer is that they were playing 4 guards and the matchups didn't work...but that still does not explain the absence of Mo.


The real question is: can we not scrutinize and voice concern over these decisions?

Did I tell you you couldn't scrutinize and voice concerns? It seems that if someone disagrees with you, you take it as a directive not to post. I've never told you not to post.

It seems that no matter how logical the counter is to your concerns, you don't accept them at all and just go back to, "I don't understand".

 

[CONNFAN23]

Yeah what fun. I don't get what it is about this team that draws such a chorus of self-righteous Gloomers. Tweaking the rosy expectations of most of us with fact-free hand-wringing must be cheap thrills. I guess nobody here here would begrudge you guys your fun, but in the face of far better informed responses from experienced husky fans, I'd think you guys would lighten it up.

Experienced fans? Are you kidding me? To put it bluntly I have forgot more about this game than you will ever know! I will not sit here and let some people on this board whose highest athletic achievement in life was not getting picked last in Gym Class take shots at me about being "experienced" or "informed".

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Experienced fans? Are you kidding me? To put it bluntly I have forgot more about this game than you will ever know! I will not sit here and let some people on this board whose highest athletic achievement in life was not getting picked last in Gym Class take shots at me about being "experienced" or "informed".

Try relaxing and post to issues rather than throwing an angry break dance on the floor when you feel affronted.

 

[VAMike23]

Well, there is consolation in this discussion. Nobody stated (when analyzing the second half) that "Syracuse wanted it more."

True!

But actually I have seen the players [quoted] using that phrase in their post-game talk. Last week it was Kelly.

 

[vtcwbuff]

It would help if telling it like it is means being factual.

She had 11 points and 7 assists. She has only 62 TO's this year in 30 games.

BTW, Diggins has 108 in 31 games.

Sorta' factual but I think the ball handling comparison needs to factor in minutes played and somehow consider the difference between a primary ball handler and a player that alternates between the 1 and 2 guard positions.

With that said, I never considered Hartly a good ball handler until I looked at the stats. Too many travels and lazy passes stuck in my mind. Now I might have to reconsider my opinion. I was surprised to see that she's ranked 47th in A/TO. Not great but very respectable. Diggens is 68th.

Faris was ranked 14th until last night's performance. I think she drops to 25-30.

 

[doggydaddy]

Experienced fans? Are you kidding me? To put it bluntly I have forgot more about this game than you will ever know! I will not sit here and let some people on this board whose highest athletic achievement in life was not getting picked last in Gym Class take shots at me about being "experienced" or "informed".

Then why didn't you know about Hartley's excellent A/TO ratio when you make your insulting and inaccurate comment about her TO's?

You certainly weren't "informed" about that, were you.

 

[doggydaddy]

Sorta' factual but I think the ball handling comparison needs to factor in minutes played and somehow consider the difference between a primary ball handler and a player that alternates between the 1 and 2 guard positions.

With that said, I never considered Hartly a good ball handler until I looked at the stats. Too many travels and lazy passes stuck in my mind. Now I might have to reconsider my opinion. I was surprised to see that she's ranked 47th in A/TO. Not great but very respectable. Diggens is 68th.

Faris was ranked 14th until last night's performance. I think she drops to 25-30.

My response was to the insulting comment about Hartley just needing to be on the court 1+ minutes to turn the ball over. It was just ignorant.

 

[vtcwbuff]

True!

But actually I have seen the players [quoted] using that phrase in their post-game talk. Last week it was Kelly.

The players say pretty much exactly what they are told to say by their handlers. Canned statements prepared for them. I don't know why they bother with player interviews because it's very rare to hear something fresh and ad libbed.

It's probably a good thing.

 

[OneTrickPony]

You certainly weren't "informed" about that, were you.

Relax, DD...he said he'd forgotten more than any of us know...he didn't actually say he remembered much...

 

[UConnChapette]

she wasn't "on the floor" as much last night

yup. She wasn't being pulled down at every turn.

 

[blackbird]

Sorta' factual but I think the ball handling comparison needs to factor in minutes played and somehow consider the difference between a primary ball handler and a player that alternates between the 1 and 2 guard positions.

With that said, I never considered Hartly a good ball handler until I looked at the stats. Too many travels and lazy passes stuck in my mind. Now I might have to reconsider my opinion. I was surprised to see that she's ranked 47th in A/TO. Not great but very respectable. Diggens is 68th.

Faris was ranked 14th until last night's performance. I think she drops to 25-30.

Hartley was never a poor ball handler.

She is turnover prone though. She'll make passes that are a little too adventurous. She'll dribble a little too "cutely" in front of two defenders. But she also gets called for some travels that I'm not sure are travels. ( I think her excellent ball fakes out smart the refs.) And although sometimes I think her longer arms allow for defenders to steal the ball by reaching around...I also think she's often fouled in that situation and it's not called. (Diggins, for example, doesn't get ball. She intentionally wacks the side of Hartley's arm, and Bria..of course, loses the ball.)

But in general, that is what you are going to get from Bria. If she's passing a lot, like she was last night. You'll get some excellent plays and passes. She made more plays than the 7 assists she got credited for. But she'll also make a few too many "gutsy" passes..that are either impossible for her teammates to catch, or put her teammates in a bad spot.

I don't mind. Diana was turnover prone too.

 

[svetbird]

It looked like Geno was going to blow a gasket at Bria yesterday after her turnovers and instead he directed it at Stewart. I think that might be a good idea. Stewarts head seems to be in a better place right now. Bria seems to be just getting her game back! I don’t want to see her lose what little confidence she is building

 

[vtcwbuff]

It looked like Geno was going to blow a gasket at Bria yesterday after her turnovers and instead he directed it at Stewart. I think that might be a good idea. Stewarts head seems to be in a better place right now. Bria seems to be just getting her game back! I don’t want to see her lose what little confidence she is building

I saw that and thought "Why is he yelling at Stewart? She's the only one with her head in the game."

 

[sparky]

I would really like to see a fake before the pass. I think we are too predictable and teams ND play the passing lanes which ends up for us as a turnover. Bria is a little better, but she has been distracted all year which caused hesitation and at times she is zoned out. If we play tonight like we did last night we will be in trouble. I sure don't want ND taking this thing with them bolting in July. Hopefully the women will stick it in their ear tonight.

 

[blackbird]

He yelled at Stewart because she had missed a defensive assignment, messed up on offense, than missed another defensive assignment.

Who was it that threw the ball out of bounds so that Geno caught it? That was hilarious.

 

[CONNFAN23]

Then why didn't you know about Hartley's excellent A/TO ratio when you make your insulting and inaccurate comment about her TO's?

You certainly weren't "informed" about that, were you.

You cant rely solely on stats to tell the whole story. For example how many times has BH made a bad pass either to a corner allowing a trap, a post player on a fast break 30ft from the basket who then travels, or a cutter whose defender is in great position to take a charge? All of these are TOs but don't show on BH stats.

 

[doggydaddy]

You cant rely solely on stats to tell the whole story. For example how many times has BH made a bad pass either to a corner allowing a trap, a post player on a fast break 30ft from the basket who then travels, or a cutter whose defender is in great position to take a charge? All of these are TOs but don't show on BH stats.

I don't know, how many?

It still doesn't make your original post any smarter.

 

[UConnChapette]

He yelled at Stewart because she had missed a defensive assignment, messed up on offense, than missed another defensive assignment.

Who was it that threw the ball out of bounds so that Geno caught it? That was hilarious.

It was a great catch by Geno, and then he promptly traveled with it.