Hanley Ramirez to Boston

[The Viking]

Mau, you need to calm down. My point wasn't to criticize the NY payroll. It was to say the sox would get skewered for spending 100 million less than NY if they sit on their hands and wait for the perfect free agent while there offense continues to drag along.
They had to spend to get panda and Hanley and both have there warts but at least they are certainly upgrades over what they had last year.

 

[The Viking]

What the... I'm shocked at this one. I know the Yankees are in need of a SS, and if there was ONE I did NOT want to see in pinstripes - the defensive liability, overrated, trending downhill Hanley Ramirez.

How is this not Carl Crawford and Adrien Gonzalez, best team EVAH 2.0 ?!!?

Stupefying

Am I gleaning from your comments that as a Yankees fan you are glad the sox just added Sandoval and Hanley?
You think this makes them a worse team?

 

[methodology]

There are two key ingredients to these signings. The first is David Ortiz. They are counting on Ortiz to be a positive influence on Ramirez, who he sees as something of a mentor. With respect to Sandoval, I think you are looking at a corner infielder with a similar body type to Ortiz at the same age. Ortiz looks better now than he did then, and I think he'll try to convince Panda why he needs to get in better shape.

Ortiz might be a leader and set an example for Panda but that will not change Panda's skill set that he has shown throughout his career. Panda has a 0.50 BB/K compared to Ortiz having about 0.75. Panda walked 39 times all last year and hasn't walked more than 52 times in any season. He also swings at over 45% of pitches out of the strike zone in his career. He is a free swinger. Ortiz is quite the opposite in regards to their offensive profile,

Panda also worked very hard last offseason to lose weight and get in better shape (which he did) and it resulted in his worse offensive season since 2010 and his 2nd worst of his career.

 

[60'sfan]

Ortiz might be a leader and set an example for Panda but that will not change Panda's skill set that he has shown throughout his career. Panda has a 0.50 BB/K compared to Ortiz having about 0.75. Panda walked 39 times all last year and hasn't walked more than 52 times in any season. He also swings at over 45% of pitches out of the strike zone in his career. He is a free swinger. Ortiz is quite the opposite in regards to their offensive profile,

Panda also worked very hard last offseason to lose weight and get in better shape (which he did) and it resulted in his worse offensive season since 2010 and his 2nd worst of his career.

I notice that you've chosen to ignore the fact that the Panda played in more games in 2014 than he ever did before and had his best season defensively ever. His season offensively was pretty close to average for him.

Also, while he does not walk a lot, his strikeouts per at bat are very good meaning that he puts the ball into play.

Finally, is there anyone else you would rather have in the post-season?

 

[mauconnfan]

There are two key ingredients to these signings. The first is David Ortiz. They are counting on Ortiz to be a positive influence on Ramirez, who he sees as something of a mentor. With respect to Sandoval, I think you are looking at a corner infielder with a similar body type to Ortiz at the same age. Ortiz looks better now than he did then, and I think he'll try to convince Panda why he needs to get in better shape.

Second, trade flexibility. Ramirez is going to the OF, my guess is it will be RF until/unless Victorino can come back and contribute. He's relatively fast and has a left of the infield arm. Mookie does not have the arm, in my opinion, to play right in Fenway. It will be interesting to see who they keep and who goes. I would be very surprised to see Bogaerts or Owens traded, and Swihart as well. Everybody else is on the table. I expect them to try to get somebody like Matt Latos.

That's fn hilarious - similar body to Ortiz? One guy actually owns a glove......Ortiz "looks better now than he did then"? Of course he does he hasn't done anything but hit for 10 years WTF? You're not real smart are you? LOL

 

[methodology]

I notice that you've chosen to ignore the fact that the Panda played in more games in 2014 than he ever did before and had his best season defensively ever. His season offensively was pretty close to average for him.

Also, while he does not walk a lot, his strikeouts per at bat are very good meaning that he puts the ball into play.

Finally, is there anyone else you would rather have in the post-season?

He did not have his best season defensively last year. In 2011 he had his best season and it was most likely an anomaly. He was +15 defensive runs saved which is GG caliber defense. Last year was his 2nd best year in his career and he was +4 which is slightly above average.

Panda is great at making contact but he is still a free swinger and has decent power but those walk numbers and swinging outside the zone also means his strikezone judgment isn't the best. He might see a bump in his OPS going to the AL East but his best offensive days are behind him, IMO.

And what happens if he becomes the 1st baseman or Dan Hurley during his final 2 years or towards the end. His bat doesn't produce enough power for those positions given his contract.

 

[The Viking]

He did not have his best season defensively last year. In 2011 he had his best season and it was most likely an anomaly. He was +15 defensive runs saved which is GG caliber defense. Last year was his 2nd best year in his career and he was +4 which is slightly above average.

Panda is great at making contact but he is still a free swinger and has decent power but those walk numbers and swinging outside the zone also means his strikezone judgment isn't the best. He might see a bump in his OPS going to the AL East but his best offensive days are behind him, IMO.

And what happens if he becomes the 1st baseman or Dan Hurley during his final 2 years or towards the end. His bat doesn't produce enough power for those positions given his contract.

Panda will look like Wade Boggs after the most recent Will Middlebrooks experiment.

 

[boba]

He did not have his best season defensively last year. In 2011 he had his best season and it was most likely an anomaly. He was +15 defensive runs saved which is GG caliber defense. Last year was his 2nd best year in his career and he was +4 which is slightly above average.

Panda is great at making contact but he is still a free swinger and has decent power but those walk numbers and swinging outside the zone also means his strikezone judgment isn't the best. He might see a bump in his OPS going to the AL East but his best offensive days are behind him, IMO.

And what happens if he becomes the 1st baseman or Dan Hurley during his final 2 years or towards the end. His bat doesn't produce enough power for those positions given his contract.

Ummm... do you recognize that you are relegating to end of career (the Dan Hurley position) a player who will 32? I don't believe you watched enough of Sandoval to make an informed opinion. I suspect the friendly confines of Fenway are going to be quite a benefit to the free swinging Panda, and I've been watching him since 2007.

 

[mauconnfan]

That's fn hilarious - similar body to Ortiz? One guy actually owns a glove.Ortiz "looks better now than he did then"? Of course he does he hasn't done anything but hit for 10 years WTF? You're not real smart are you? LOL

Ok I take back the swearing LOL.......36 holes at Fairview and lots of beers and cocktails (wasn't driving) later I had drunken passion. The words were correct and opinion still reminds but the swearing was unnecessary - but funny now that I see it!

Hey Sandoval is fat and Ortiz is big but both will be nice in the lineup. We will have a guy who hasn't played in a year and who knows who at SS so I'm jealous of the spending. Yanks are gonna blow!

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's fn hilarious - similar body to Ortiz? One guy actually owns a glove.Ortiz "looks better now than he did then"? Of course he does he hasn't done anything but hit for 10 years WTF? You're not real smart are you? LOL

WTF are you talking about? Yes, similar body...and both were productive despite it. Panda however, breaks down more often. Ortiz realized he wouldn't be playing to age 40 unless he got in shape. Sandoval isn't going to be productive into his mid 30's unless he gets in better shape. Since Ortiz went through that, he can help Sandoval do it. I am merely suggesting that this huge risk of giving a 5 year deal to an out of shape Sandoval might be mitigated if he follows Ortiz's lead and realizes what he needs to do once he gets out of his 20's. If Sandoval looks the same in year five as now, the Red Sox are in trouble with this contract.

 

[mauconnfan]

WTF are you talking about? Yes, similar body...and both were productive despite it. Panda however, breaks down more often. Ortiz realized he wouldn't be playing to age 40 unless he got in shape. Sandoval isn't going to be productive into his mid 30's unless he gets in better shape. Since Ortiz went through that, he can help Sandoval do it. I am merely suggesting that this huge risk of giving a 5 year deal to an out of shape Sandoval might be mitigated if he follows Ortiz's lead and realizes what he needs to do once he gets out of his 20's. If Sandoval looks the same in year five as now, the Red Sox are in trouble with this contract.

Oh yeah and the "you aren't real smart are you" was also generated from multiple liquids LOL

Panda made a lot of money with his playoff heroics because a .273 16/74 guy who is overweight and has had his age questioned should never be making money like that. But things have changed as we can see by these 2 signings. Not a lot of really good players available these days!

 

[HuskyHawk]

Oh yeah and the "you aren't real smart are you" was also generated from multiple liquids LOL

Panda made a lot of money with his playoff heroics because a .273 16/74 guy who is overweight and has had his age questioned should never be making money like that. But things have changed as we can see by these 2 signings. Not a lot of really good players available these days!

I'm looking forward to some nice liquids once I leave work today for Thanksgiving. Happy holiday to all!

 

[methodology]

Ummm... do you recognize that you are relegating to end of career (the Dan Hurley position) a player who will 32? I don't believe you watched enough of Sandoval to make an informed opinion. I suspect the friendly confines of Fenway are going to be quite a benefit to the free swinging Panda, and I've been watching him since 2007.

Panda will turn 29 in August of this coming up year. That will make him 34 in the last year when his contract is up and if the club uses the option he will be 34/35 during that year.

I've had MLB extra innings for the past 10 years. I watch a lot of west coast baseball. Panda is not a great defensive 3rd baseman. There is not reason to think a league average defender throughout his entire career will get better as he ages and starts to lose mobility. I wouldn't be surprised for him to replace Ortiz when the time comes and they find a better defensive 3rd baseman to take over.

 

[60'sfan]

Oh yeah and the "you aren't real smart are you" was also generated from multiple liquids LOL

Panda made a lot of money with his playoff heroics because a .273 16/74 guy who is overweight and has had his age questioned should never be making money like that. But things have changed as we can see by these 2 signings. Not a lot of really good players available these days!

Actually the reason the Sox paid as much as they did, is covered in your last sentence. It's the old supply and demand issue. 2014 was a bad year offensively for many teams and there is not a lot of hitters available. The Sox grabbed two of them and paid a healthy premium. Despite the extra bucks, they are off to a good start. Neither player cost them any prospects, and they are in good position to make a deal for a pitcher. If they can sign Lester, this will have been one of their best off-seasons ever.

 

[methodology]

Actually the Sox did give up prospects. They gave up their 2nd and 3rd picks in the upcoming draft to sign both Hanley and Pablo. Only reason they didn't lose their first round pick is because it's protected being in the top 10

 

[The Viking]

Actually the Sox did give up prospects. They gave up their 2nd and 3rd picks in the upcoming draft to sign both Hanley and Pablo. Only reason they didn't lose their first round pick is because it's protected being in the top 10

You're getting a little cute there - They gave up the possibility to get prospects in the 2nd and 3rd round, no certainty though. Every team has 2nd and 3rd round picks over the past 5 years that have flamed out quickly.

For what it's worth, they also have a pick in the Comp Round B from the A's because of the Cespedes deal- that round occurs after the 2nd round.

So basically they get an early pick in the 1st round and a pick just past the 2nd round and no 3rd pick, they are still doing OK as of this moment regarding the draft. So no real issues there. Plus I don't recall them being linked to any other free agent that is tied to a qualifying offer

 

[The Viking]

Panda will turn 29 in August of this coming up year. That will make him 34 in the last year when his contract is up and if the club uses the option he will be 34/35 during that year.

I've had MLB extra innings for the past 10 years. I watch a lot of west coast baseball. Panda is not a great defensive 3rd baseman. There is not reason to think a league average defender throughout his entire career will get better as he ages and starts to lose mobility. I wouldn't be surprised for him to replace Ortiz when the time comes and they find a better defensive 3rd baseman to take over.

If the Sox pick up the option that year he will pretty damn good and we'll all be surprised. It's a 17 million dollar option, he'll be 34 and probably 300 pounds by then.
The worst spot on the team last year was 3B and they've replaced it with a good player who is a historically great player in the postseason. Is he worth 19 million a year no, but they have a lot of payroll flexibility over the next 5 years so it doesn't really hurt them that much. they just got better and other than a Chase Headley (who I like) who is 4 years older and will probably get a 3-4 year deal, I don't know who else they could have gotten to plug the weakest hole on the team.

 

[mauconnfan]

If the Sox pick up the option that year he will pretty damn good and we'll all be surprised. It's a 17 million dollar option, he'll be 34 and probably 300 pounds by then.
The worst spot on the team last year was 3B and they've replaced it with a good player who is a historically great player in the postseason. Is he worth 19 million a year no, but they have a lot of payroll flexibility over the next 5 years so it doesn't really hurt them that much. they just got better and other than a Chase Headley (who I like) who is 4 years older and will probably get a 3-4 year deal, I don't know who else they could have gotten to plug the weakest hole on the team.

You guys kill me with your confidence in Chase Headley. I watched him at the end of last year after the trade and he's OK at best. His .280-.300 days have shot past him and he's lucky to be a .250 hitter with very little pop. It's a power position and if you don't have that you better hit well and drive in clutch runs - don't see it. Wish you guys went in that direction!!

 

[60'sfan]

You guys kill me with your confidence in Chase Headley. I watched him at the end of last year after the trade and he's OK at best. His .280-.300 days have shot past him and he's lucky to be a .250 hitter with very little pop. It's a power position and if you don't have that you better hit well and drive in clutch runs - don't see it. Wish you guys went in that direction!!

I agree with Mau. I watched Headley for all the years in was in San Diego and he had one good year. I'm not going to speculate on what caused that one good year but he is not the solution for the Sox or the Yanks.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Sandoval is not a $19M a year player. Not even close. But he is lucky with his timing. He's average on D, and an above average, but not elite hitter. Should be paid, maybe $13-14M a year. If the Giants hadn't low-balled him at even less than that and only 3 years, they could have signed him for that earlier in the year.

The issue for Boston and others is the position. 3B is now the weakest position in the league across the board. There aren't any great 3B, and few who are even good. It's pretty awful. My main complaint is that the position is so terrible, that someone like Cechini is probably not far from league average. Hanley Ramirez, if healthy and playing average D at 3B, might have been the best in the game. It's a disaster of a position.

 

[60'sfan]

Sandoval is not a $19M a year player. Not even close. But he is lucky with his timing. He's average on D, and an above average, but not elite hitter. Should be paid, maybe $13-14M a year. If the Giants hadn't low-balled him at even less than that and only 3 years, they could have signed him for that earlier in the year.

The issue for Boston and others is the position. 3B is now the weakest position in the league across the board. There aren't any great 3B, and few who are even good. It's pretty awful. My main complaint is that the position is so terrible, that someone like Cechini is probably not far from league average. Hanley Ramirez, if healthy and playing average D at 3B, might have been the best in the game. It's a disaster of a position.

I wouldn't call it a disaster. There are some pretty good third basemen out there. Let's start with Adrian Beltre who is probably the best and who the Sox should never have let go. Then there is Evan Longoria, David Wright, Aramis Ramirez, Josh Donaldson, Lonnie Chisenhall, Anthony Rendon, Niel Walker and Kyle Seager. 2014 was a bad year for hitters in general and the third basemen suffered as well. Sandoval would have to be rated in the top five. He was fortunate to have come off of a great performance in the World Series which certainly increased his value. I agree that the Sox paid too much but they need to find a way to bring the fans back.