Golden age?

[CardiacAndre7]

Yeah UConn is probably a bad example because it's a team we all root for. But I think you're in a pretty massive minority in rooting for rivalry matchups over the best teams. That's a very outdated mindset

Agreed. If it was #1 Michigan vs #2 Washington, I would rather watch that than #1 Michigan vs #10 Ohio State.

If they were same ranked I guess i’d rather watch the rivalry more, but it wouldn’t really impact me too much.

 

[superjohn]

Not reading what the old heads need to say in this thread and causing myself undo stress.

The answer is simple to me. The talent level, skill and athleticism are all better than every before. Better training, S&C, analytics, and a bigger pool of players to draw from internationally have all made that possible.

Golden age? Depends how you define it. The league is certainly not more watchable despite the high level of play. Outside of UConn alum and the Celts I get pretty bored watchi g tje game. It's too expensive for your average fan to watch. Young people only watch highlights.

NBA players now aren't bigger, stronger, faster, don't jump higher than the players in the 90's and 2000's.

 

[navery12]

I'm not. You said as a neutral supporter, you're not a neutral supporter of any UConn game. I tried to give examples of teams being in somewhat even standing playing each other and I would much rather watch "rivals" play each other in those instances.

I used UConn as an example because it's a team and rivalry we're a familiar with. If you'd rather I use Michigan/Ohio State or Duke/UNC as an example I can.

I understand you would rather watch 2 rivals than 2 good teams play, I am telling you that's a minority opinion. That is why these rivalries are fading into the abyss, fans care less and less about rivalries and more about watching the best teams play

 

[navery12]

Agreed. If it was #1 Michigan vs #2 Washington, I would rather watch that than #1 Michigan vs #10 Ohio State.

If they were same ranked I guess i’d rather watch the rivalry more, but it wouldn’t really impact me too much.

This is exactly my point, all things equal then sure a rivalry game might be a little better. But I just want to watch the best teams play each other

 

[superjohn]

I used UConn as an example because it's a team and rivalry we're a familiar with. If you'd rather I use Michigan/Ohio State or Duke/UNC as an example I can.

I understand you would rather watch 2 rivals than 2 good teams play, I am telling you that's a minority opinion. That is why these rivalries are fading into the abyss, fans care less and less about rivalries and more about watching the best teams play

Again, you aren't understanding what I'm saying. That's not at all what I said.

Using UConn is fine but you're obviously not a neutral observer when it comes to UConn games.

 

[superjohn]

This is exactly my point, all things equal then sure a rivalry game might be a little better.

That's what I was trying to convey to you but I would much rather watch the rivalry game between teams on equal footing/similarly ranked than watch a game between two teams who have no real connection who are on equal footing/similarly ranked.

 

[HW611]

I used UConn as an example because it's a team and rivalry we're a familiar with. If you'd rather I use Michigan/Ohio State or Duke/UNC as an example I can.

I understand you would rather watch 2 rivals than 2 good teams play, I am telling you that's a minority opinion. That is why these rivalries are fading into the abyss, fans care less and less about rivalries and more about watching the best teams play

As a Michigan fan, I miss our rivalry with Notre Dame in the OOC. Texas and Oklahoma games were very meh.

 

[navery12]

Again, you aren't understanding what I'm saying. That's not at all what I said.

Using UConn is fine but you're obviously not a neutral observer when it comes to UConn games.

Obviously, I only used UConn because it was the most recent title game that matched up #1 vs #2 that I could remember. And I'm saying OTHER actual neutral observers would rather see UConn/Purdue than UConn/Syracuse

 

[thekollieman]

College basketball All-American teams recently...

2024-2025
1st team- Johni Broome, Walter Clayton, Cooper Flagg, Mark Sears, Braden Smith

2nd team- PJ Haggerty, Kam Jones, RJ Luis, John Tonje, JT Toppin

3rd team- LJ Cryer, Hunter Dickinson, Eric Dixon, Ryan Kalkbrenner, Zakai Zeigler

2023-2024
1st team- RJ Davis, Zach Edey, Dalton Knecht, Tristen Newton, Jamal Shead

2nd team- Hunter Dickinson, Kyle Filipowski, DaRon Holmes, Tyler Kolek, Mark Sears

3rd team- Johni Broome, Jaedon LeDee, Caleb Love, Baylor Scheierman, Terrence Shannon

Back in the day...

1984-1985
1st team- Patrick Ewing, Keith Lee, Xavier McDaniel, Chris Mullin, Wayman Tisdale

2nd team- Len Bias, Johnny Dawkins, Jon Koncak, Mark Price, Kenny Walker

3rd team- AC Green, Alfrederick Hughes, Roy Tarpley, Sam Vincent, Pearl Washington

1983-1984
1st team- Patrick Ewing, Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Sam Perkins, Wayman Tisdale

2nd team- Sam Bowie, Michael Cage, Devin Durrant, Chris Mullin, Leon Wood

3rd team- Lorenzo Charles, Keith Lee, Alvin Robertson, Melvin Turpin, Michael Young

1982-1983
1st team- Dale Ellis, Patrick Ewing, Michael Jordan, Ralph Sampson, Wayman Tisdale

2nd team- Clyde Drexler, Derek Harper, Keith Lee, Steve Stepanovich, Darrell Walker

3rd team- Antoine Carr, Kenny Fields, Sam Perkins, John Pinone, Ennis Whatley

1981- 1982
1st team- Terry Cummings, Quintin Dailey, Sleepy Floyd, Kevin Magee, Ralph Sampson

2nd team- Lester Conner, Dale Ellis, Keith Lee, Terry Teagle, James Worthy

3rd team- Dan Callandrillo, Ricky Frazier, Ricky Pierce, Paul Pressey, Dominique Wilkins

I'm not even getting into the late 70s teams with Bird, Magic, and Moncrief

To be fair, it is fundamentally impossible for the names of college players from the past two seasons to carry the weight of those you’re contrasting them with because their lasting legacies or lack thereof has yet to be determined.

 

[superjohn]

Obviously, I only used UConn because it was the most recent title game that matched up #1 vs #2 that I could remember. And I'm saying OTHER actual neutral observers would rather see UConn/Purdue than UConn/Syracuse

Oklahoma State isn't a very good power conference team, same goes for Syracuse. It's why I used them as an example. I would rather see UConn play the old "rival" Syracuse.

I used Washington as an example because I think they are on pretty equal footing with Michigan. I'll make it a point to tune into Ohio State playing Michigan. I don't know if Ohio State has Washington on the schedule but if they do I don't care about that game.

 

[Husky68]

So many great players, hard to count for 1960 MLB.

4.	Hank Aaron	Milwaukee Braves	OF
6.	Joe Adcock	Milwaukee Braves	1B
Ed Bailey	Cincinnati Reds	C	Did Not Play
5.	Ernie Banks	Chicago Cubs	SS
Ken Boyer	St. Louis Cardinals	3B
Bob Buhl	Milwaukee Braves	P
Smoky Burgess	Pittsburgh Pirates	C
Orlando Cepeda	San Francisco Giants	OF
Roberto Clemente	Pittsburgh Pirates	OF
8.	Del Crandall	Milwaukee Braves	C
Roy Face	Pittsburgh Pirates	P
9.	Bob Friend	Pittsburgh Pirates	P	Starting Pitcher
Dick Groat	Pittsburgh Pirates	SS
Bill Henry	Cincinnati Reds	P	Did Not Pitch
Larry Jackson	St. Louis Cardinals	P	Did Not Pitch
Norm Larker	Los Angeles Dodgers	1B
Vern Law	Pittsburgh Pirates	P
3.	Eddie Mathews	Milwaukee Braves	3B
1.	Willie Mays	San Francisco Giants	OF
7.	Bill Mazeroski	Pittsburgh Pirates	2B
Mike McCormick	San Francisco Giants	P
Lindy McDaniel	St. Louis Cardinals	P
Stan Musial	St. Louis Cardinals	OF
Charlie Neal	Los Angeles Dodgers	2B
Vada Pinson	Cincinnati Reds	OF
Johnny Podres	Los Angeles Dodgers	P	Did Not Pitch
2.	Bob Skinner	Pittsburgh Pirates	OF
Tony Taylor	Philadelphia Phillies	2B
Bill White	St. Louis Cardinals	1B
Stan Williams	Los Angeles Dodgers	P	Did Not Pitch

[td]

1960 All-Star Game #1​

National League All-Star Squad​

[/td]​

[td]

Lineup​

[/td][td]

Name​

[/td][td]

Team​

[/td][td]

Position​

[/td][td]

Notes​

[/td]​

[td]

BOLD = Manager / player / coach choice to start the game.​

[/td]​

Luis Aparcio	Chicago White Sox	SS
Gary Bell	Cleveland Indians	P
6.	Yogi Berra	New York Yankees	C
Jim Coates	New York Yankees	P
Bud Daley	Kansas City Athletics	P
Chuck Estrada	Baltimore Orioles	P
Whitey Ford	New York Yankees	P	Did Not Pitch
Nellie Fox	Chicago White Sox	2B
Jim Gentile	Baltimore Orioles	1B
8.	Ron Hansen	Baltimore Orioles	SS
Elston Howard	New York Yankees	C
Al Kaline	Detroit Tigers	OF
Harvey Kuenn	Cleveland Indians	OF
Frank Lary	Detroit Tigers	P
Jim Lemon	Washington Senators	OF	Replaced Pascual
Sherm Lollar	Chicago White Sox	C
2.	Frank Malzone	Boston Red Sox	3B
4.	Mickey Mantle	New York Yankees	OF
3.	Roger Maris	New York Yankees	OF
1.	Minnie Minoso	Chicago White Sox	OF
9.	Bill Monbouquette	Boston Red Sox	P	Starting Pitcher
Camilo Pascual	Washington Senators	P	Replaced - Injury
Vic Power	Cleveland Indians	1B	Did Not Play
Brooks Robinson	Baltimore Orioles	3B
7.	Pete Runnels	Boston Red Sox	2B
5.	Bill Skowron	New York Yankees	1B
Al Smith	Chicago White Sox	OF
Gerry Staley	Chicago White Sox	P	Did Not Pitch
Dick Stigman	Cleveland Indians	P	Did Not Pitch
Ted Williams	Boston Red Sox	OF
Early Wynn	Chicago White Sox	P	Did Not Pitch

[td]

1960 All-Star Game #1​

American League All-Star Squad​

[/td]​

[td]

Lineup​

[/td][td]

Name​

[/td][td]

Team​

[/td][td]

Position​

[/td][td]

Notes​

[/td]​

[td]

BOLD = Manager / player / coach choice to start the game.​

[/td]​

Game Number	29
Date / Box Score	07-13-1960
Location	Yankee Stadium
Attendance	38,362
M.V.P. Award	Not Awarded Until 1962
Starting Pitchers	Whitey Ford	Vern Law
Managers	Al Lopez	Walt Alston
Coaches	Tony Cuccinello	Solly Hemus
Don Gutteridge	Fred Hutchinson

[td]

1960 All-Star Game #2​

1960 All-Star Game #2 Official Program
The 1960 Midsummer Classic At-A-Glance​

[/td]​

[td]

1960 All-Star Game #2 Fast Facts​

[/td]​

[td]

League Items​

[/td][td]

A.L.​

[/td][td]

N.L.​

[/td]​

[td]

1960 All-Star Game #2 Fast Facts​

[/td]​

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Not reading what the old heads need to say in this thread and causing myself undo stress.

The answer is simple to me. The talent level, skill and athleticism are all better than every before. Better training, S&C, analytics, and a bigger pool of players to draw from internationally have all made that possible.

Golden age? Depends how you define it. The league is certainly not more watchable despite the high level of play. Outside of UConn alum and the Celts I get pretty bored watchi g tje game. It's too expensive for your average fan to watch. Young people only watch highlights.

I'm not sure I follow your post.

It seems like you initially dismiss the opinion of people preferring basketball from 30 years only to conclude by saying the game isn't as watchable today?

 

[Deepster]

NBA players now aren't bigger, stronger, faster, don't jump higher than the players in the 90's and 2000's.

Even if they were, that doesn’t equate to better basketball. The Bird era Celts, Duncans Spurs, the Malone/Stockton Jazz. All played great team basketball that I’d put over anything on the court today.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I'm not sure I follow your post.

It seems like you initially dismiss the opinion of people preferring basketball from 30 years only to conclude by saying the game isn't as watchable today?

I think his point was that better quality of play does not necessarily mean a better viewing product for the average fan. NBA as probably the most obvious example, just unquestionably a higher level of play now than historically. That said, I’m very open to people just preferring a different style of play even if we know that’s not the analytically optimal style.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Even if they were, that doesn’t equate to better basketball. The Bird era Celts, Duncans Spurs, the Malone/Stockton Jazz. All played great team basketball that I’d put over anything on the court today.

I agree. I dont watch sports to see the heights of athleticism necessarily, nor do I listen to music to hear an 8 octave singer.

Musicians have gotten technically better. Advances in technology have made anything possible. But NOBODY would call the 2010s the Golden Age of music.

Malcolm Gladwell talks about the Heinz ketchup phenomenon. He says that newer ketchups have food science and more advanced techniques at their disposal but you cant touch Heinz Ketchup.

Super Mario Bros and Zelda look horrible compared to today's games but its hard to argue that this age of video games was better than the Nintendo era.

For whatever reason, maybe the way the game has changed, but I'll keep it simple- it was way more fun to watch Bird than it is to watch Wemby.

 

[TheHorde]

I agree with the posts that mentioned that this would break down between old school and new school NBA, and that proponents of each won’t give an inch. I’d argue that today’s NBA has the best athletes and best shooting it’s ever had, while saying I think early to mid 80s and 90s NBA was the golden age for me.

 

[RuffRuff]

I agree. I dont watch sports to see the heights of athleticism necessarily, nor do I listen to music to hear an 8 octave singer.

Musicians have gotten technically better. Advances in technology have made that possible. But NOBODY would call the 2010s the Golden Age of music.

Malcolm Gladwell talks about the Heinz ketchup phenomenon. He says that newer ketchups have food science and more advanced techniques at their disposal but you cant touch Heinz Ketchup.

Super Mario Bros and Zelda look horrible compared to today's games but its hard to argue that this age of video games was better than the Nintendo era. Mario is a universe. An entity.

For whatever reason, maybe the way the game has changed, but I'll keep it simple- it was way more fun to watch Bird than it is to watch Wemby.

It’s the personality profiles. Players back then just played with more moxy, edge, hate in their veins for the competition. They all had something to prove. In part it’s why C Clark is so popular, she plays with that kind of fire.

 

[boog204]

I'm biased because it was MY golden age, but I think pretty much all sports were better in the 80s and 90s, and really almost all aspects of existence, too. I have zero frame of reference to decades before, but I am eternally grateful I grew up in the era that I did.

 

[cullaville]

Professional Pickleball has never been better! 😎

don't forget corn hole and axe throwing

 

[TheHorde]

Even if they were, that doesn’t equate to better basketball. The Bird era Celts, Duncans Spurs, the Malone/Stockton Jazz. All played great team basketball that I’d put over anything on the court today.

The Magic Johnson led Showtime Lakers too

 

[Jumpman62114]

Taking skill level and style of play out of the equation, I do miss the 2005-early 2010s era when I got into the sport and there was more roster continuity and regional rivalries were more prevalent. Seeing players develop and their roles grow was one of the best parts of following a team. I’m glad Hurley still supports that to some extent but I dont think it will ever be the same with NIL.

 

[Deepster]

It’s the personality profiles. Players back then just played with more moxy, edge, hate in their veins for the competition. They all had something to prove. In part it’s why C Clark is so popular, she plays with that kind of fire.

Michael Cooper had a personal library of 150 games of Larry Bird tape. He took those videos on a family trip to Italy once and sat in his hotel room watching them nonstop because Bird had gotten the best of him the last time they played.

There's no one in the NBA right now who's even close to doing something like that.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

So many great players, hard to count for 1960 MLB.

4.	Hank Aaron	Milwaukee Braves	OF
6.	Joe Adcock	Milwaukee Braves	1B
Ed Bailey	Cincinnati Reds	C	Did Not Play
5.	Ernie Banks	Chicago Cubs	SS
Ken Boyer	St. Louis Cardinals	3B
Bob Buhl	Milwaukee Braves	P
Smoky Burgess	Pittsburgh Pirates	C
Orlando Cepeda	San Francisco Giants	OF
Roberto Clemente	Pittsburgh Pirates	OF
8.	Del Crandall	Milwaukee Braves	C
Roy Face	Pittsburgh Pirates	P
9.	Bob Friend	Pittsburgh Pirates	P	Starting Pitcher
Dick Groat	Pittsburgh Pirates	SS
Bill Henry	Cincinnati Reds	P	Did Not Pitch
Larry Jackson	St. Louis Cardinals	P	Did Not Pitch
Norm Larker	Los Angeles Dodgers	1B
Vern Law	Pittsburgh Pirates	P
3.	Eddie Mathews	Milwaukee Braves	3B
1.	Willie Mays	San Francisco Giants	OF
7.	Bill Mazeroski	Pittsburgh Pirates	2B
Mike McCormick	San Francisco Giants	P
Lindy McDaniel	St. Louis Cardinals	P
Stan Musial	St. Louis Cardinals	OF
Charlie Neal	Los Angeles Dodgers	2B
Vada Pinson	Cincinnati Reds	OF
Johnny Podres	Los Angeles Dodgers	P	Did Not Pitch
2.	Bob Skinner	Pittsburgh Pirates	OF
Tony Taylor	Philadelphia Phillies	2B
Bill White	St. Louis Cardinals	1B
Stan Williams	Los Angeles Dodgers	P	Did Not Pitch

[td]
​

1960 All-Star Game #1​

National League All-Star Squad

[/td]

[td]

Lineup​

[/td][td]

Name​

[/td][td]

Team​

[/td][td]

Position​

[/td][td]

Notes​

[/td]

[td]

BOLD = Manager / player / coach choice to start the game.​

[/td]​

Luis Aparcio	Chicago White Sox	SS
Gary Bell	Cleveland Indians	P
6.	Yogi Berra	New York Yankees	C
Jim Coates	New York Yankees	P
Bud Daley	Kansas City Athletics	P
Chuck Estrada	Baltimore Orioles	P
Whitey Ford	New York Yankees	P	Did Not Pitch
Nellie Fox	Chicago White Sox	2B
Jim Gentile	Baltimore Orioles	1B
8.	Ron Hansen	Baltimore Orioles	SS
Elston Howard	New York Yankees	C
Al Kaline	Detroit Tigers	OF
Harvey Kuenn	Cleveland Indians	OF
Frank Lary	Detroit Tigers	P
Jim Lemon	Washington Senators	OF	Replaced Pascual
Sherm Lollar	Chicago White Sox	C
2.	Frank Malzone	Boston Red Sox	3B
4.	Mickey Mantle	New York Yankees	OF
3.	Roger Maris	New York Yankees	OF
1.	Minnie Minoso	Chicago White Sox	OF
9.	Bill Monbouquette	Boston Red Sox	P	Starting Pitcher
Camilo Pascual	Washington Senators	P	Replaced - Injury
Vic Power	Cleveland Indians	1B	Did Not Play
Brooks Robinson	Baltimore Orioles	3B
7.	Pete Runnels	Boston Red Sox	2B
5.	Bill Skowron	New York Yankees	1B
Al Smith	Chicago White Sox	OF
Gerry Staley	Chicago White Sox	P	Did Not Pitch
Dick Stigman	Cleveland Indians	P	Did Not Pitch
Ted Williams	Boston Red Sox	OF
Early Wynn	Chicago White Sox	P	Did Not Pitch

[td]
​

1960 All-Star Game #1​

American League All-Star Squad

[/td]

[td]

Lineup​

[/td][td]

Name​

[/td][td]

Team​

[/td][td]

Position​

[/td][td]

Notes​

[/td]

[td]

BOLD = Manager / player / coach choice to start the game.​

[/td]​

Game Number	29
Date / Box Score	07-13-1960
Location	Yankee Stadium
Attendance	38,362
M.V.P. Award	Not Awarded Until 1962
Starting Pitchers	Whitey Ford	Vern Law
Managers	Al Lopez	Walt Alston
Coaches	Tony Cuccinello	Solly Hemus
Don Gutteridge	Fred Hutchinson

[td]
​

1960 All-Star Game #2​

1960 All-Star Game #2 Official Program

The 1960 Midsummer Classic At-A-Glance

[/td]

[td]

1960 All-Star Game #2 Fast Facts​

[/td]

[td]

League Items​

[/td][td]

A.L.​

[/td][td]

N.L.​

[/td]

[td]

1960 All-Star Game #2 Fast Facts​

[/td]​

Lost interest in the all-star game after the fans got the vote. 60's were great mlb years.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Super Mario Bros and Zelda look horrible compared to today's games but it’s hard to argue that this age of video games was better than the Nintendo era.

Oh man, I would have agreed with you until I ignored my buddy’s warnings and fired up golden eye for the first time in 20+ years. Woof. What a dog of a game on all levels. Video games today are MASSIVELY better.

 

[HW611]

Oh man, I would have agreed with you until I ignored my buddy’s warnings and fired up golden eye for the first time in 20+ years. Woof. What a dog of a game on all levels. Video games today are MASSIVELY better.

Idk what video game today is beating Halo 3