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OT: GOAT of all GOATs

Who is the GOAT of all GOATs?

  • Tom Brady

    Votes: 42 19.6%

  • Michael Jordan

    Votes: 55 25.7%

  • Wayne Gretzky

    Votes: 29 13.6%

  • Tiger Woods

    Votes: 12 5.6%

  • Serena Williams

    Votes: 3 1.4%

  • Babe Ruth

    Votes: 17 7.9%

  • Muhammad Ali

    Votes: 18 8.4%

  • Michael Phelps

    Votes: 15 7.0%

  • Simone Biles

    Votes: 4 1.9%

  • Usain Bolt

    Votes: 4 1.9%

  • Pele

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • Roger Federer

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • Rafael Nadal

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • Novak Djokovic

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other (please feel free to comment below)

    Votes: 12 5.6%
  • Total voters
    214
Brady for team sports. 7 rings and playing into his 40s might not be replicated during my lifetime.

I’ll just throw Jon Jones out there for individuals. People hate him, but denying his greatness is silly. The most complete MMA athlete I’ve ever seen. Being the best at something that threatens your physical safety gets you extra points in my book. So Ali is up there of course.
 
Joe Dimaggio

My Dad saw the Yankees in all their glory years from the twenties through the fifties and always said Joe D was the best.

A great stat - he hit 361 home runs and only stuck out 369 times.

On top of that he was a classy guy.
 
Palatine said:
A big part of Brady's goat status belongs to Gisele. She allowed Brady to play for less salary than his elite status demanded. This allowed the Patriots to play with a salary cap larger than the rest of the league. So they were able to add a Randy Moss or elite defender while the rest of the league could not. It gave them an advantage over the rest of the NFL.

Patriot fans know this even if they don't acknowledge it.

And yes, LT would sent Brady into space.
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That is a weird take. Is there a subtraction for whatever $ Brady owes to Bridget Moynihan? Offset by TB12 income or did that not manifest until after the 4th or 5th or 7th Super Bowl win when the alleged supermodel income enable the Patriots dynasty?
Do you have a precise amount to apply for the family or individual net worth that permits taking less salary?
Any other athletes historically that you are mad at for family money or other instances where a wife can be used to discount an athlete and team success?
 
Dogdeacon said:
That is a weird take. Is there a subtraction for whatever $ Brady owes to Bridget Moynihan? Offset by TB12 income or did that not manifest until after the 4th or 5th or 7th Super Bowl win when the alleged supermodel income enable the Patriots dynasty?
Do you have a precise amount to apply for the family or individual net worth that permits taking less salary?
Any other athletes historically that you are mad at for family money or other instances where a wife can be used to discount an athlete and team success?
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Brady played for less money than he was worth. That helped the Patriots not Brady, so his business dealing don't come into it.

Gisele was making enough for the family on her own. Probably enough to even carry her husband's poor business ventures.

It's not a weird take. It's a fact. The Patriots were playing with one salary cap the the rest of the NFL was playing with another -lesser- salary cap. The Patriots still had to make good decisions with their roster and the team still had to be coached and play well. However, any assessment of Brady's career must include the financial advantage the Patriots had in constructing their roster. The Pats were able to surround Brady with a cast that other teams -who payed their elite QBs what they were worth- simply could not.
 
Palatine said:
Brady played for less money than he was worth. That helped the Patriots not Brady, so his business dealing don't come into it.

Gisele was making enough for the family on her own. Probably enough to even carry her husband's poor business ventures.

It's not a weird take. It's a fact. The Patriots were playing with one salary cap the the rest of the NFL was playing with another -lesser- salary cap. The Patriots still had to make good decisions with their roster and the team still had to be coached and play well. However, any assessment of Brady's career must include the financial advantage the Patriots had in constructing their roster. The Pats were able to surround Brady with a cast that other teams -who payed their elite QBs what they were worth- simply could not.
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In every team sport, players on rookie - initial contracts make way less than established veterans = your take requires discounting every team sport championship based on some psychotic scale of what each player deserved for a salary and then what they actually got paid. The are constant examples EVERY YEAR of players with below 'market' contracts enabling more salaries for rosters. Lots of basketball guys have taken less money purposefully. The GOAT Michael Jordan is almost inarguably the most underpaid athlete ever (salary wise) for what he generated. Is he too less of a GOAT b/c of bad contracts or Nike deals that enabled even the uber cheap Bulls to construct championship rosters.
Your line "Patriots fans know this but don't acknowledge it" speaks to your pathology. I assume in this fantasy of yours New Englanders twist & turn in bed riddled with guilt & imposter syndrome - fearing deep down that it was ALL (after the 1st 3 Super Bowls) Giselle Bundchen!
 
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Dogdeacon said:
In every team sport, players on rookie - initial contracts make way less than established veterans = your take requires discounting every team sport championship based on some psychotic scale of what each player deserved for a salary and then what they actually got paid. The are constant examples EVERY YEAR of players with below 'market' contracts enabling more salaries for rosters. Lots of basketball guys have taken less money purposefully. The GOAT Michael Jordan is almost inarguably the most underpaid athlete ever (salary wise) for what he generated. Is he too less of a GOAT b/c of bad contracts or Nike deals that enabled even the uber cheap Bulls to construct championship rosters.
Your line "Patriots fans know this but don't acknowledge it" speaks to your pathology. I assume in this fantasy of yours New Englanders twist & turn in bed riddled with guilt & imposter syndrome - fearing deep down that it was ALL (after the 1st 3 Super Bowls) Giselle Bundchen!
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True. But Brady took team friendly contracts almost to the end. He did this because he was able to because of his wife. She deserves a portion of the credit for the Pats "dynasty." And the dynasty is why we talk about Brady as the GOAT.

I am not talking about a player being paid less than he "generated." I am talking about Brady taking team friendly contracts to help the Pats build a roster because he could depend on Gisele.

It's a factor in his greatness.
 
storrsroars said:
Someone hasn't been watching/reading any of the Marilyn Monroe biopics.
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Those biopics - not really my interest.

Maybe wrong about Joe D the person but still one of the greatest ballplayers of all time.

But he did love to dunk his dinky donuts
 
Palatine said:
True. But Brady took team friendly contracts almost to the end. He did this because he was able to because of his wife. She deserves a portion of the credit for the Pats "dynasty." And the dynasty is why we talk about Brady as the GOAT.
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Brady made a quarter of a billion dollars over his tenure with the Patriots. Let's not act like he was making $40k a year. He was fine, rich wife or no rich wife.
 
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Palatine said:
True. But Brady took team friendly contracts almost to the end. He did this because he was able to because of his wife. She deserves a portion of the credit for the Pats "dynasty." And the dynasty is why we talk about Brady as the GOAT.

I am not talking about a player being paid less than he "generated." I am talking about Brady taking team friendly contracts to help the Pats build a roster because he could depend on Gisele.

It's a factor in his greatness.
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Ok that's reasonable. I'm just not sure how you can state the wife angle as a fact. It is a fact that Brady took less money than he could have and that helped the team but there are a myriad of reasons why and his wife's independent wealth probably isn't #1 and of course the team salary max spending are proven to not guarantee championships (see Yankees, NY).

And then in every team sport the teams/teammates players play with are a factor that influences their greatness. The team, owner, cities as well, eras; too much and too little money sometimes makes or breaks a player too. It is a subjective discussion, made more impossible if discounting the athlete's performance by even more subjective theories of off field circumstances & their impact. Heck, Secretariat might not be the goat if his owner hadn't lost a coin flip.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Brady made a quarter of a billion dollars over his tenure with the Patriots. Let's not act like he was making $40k a year. He was fine, rich wife or no rich wife.
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Not my point. My point is other elite QBs like Roethlisberger were piling up huge pay days out earning Brady. It was clear Brady should have been paid as well as many others. He took less because his family situation (wife) allowed it. It gave the Pats an off the field competitive edge.
 
Palatine said:
Not my point. My point is other elite QBs like Roethlisberger were piling up huge pay days out earning Brady. It was clear Brady should have been paid as well as many others. He took less because his family situation (wife) allowed it. It gave the Pats an off the field competitive edge.
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Actually, it is your point. You're saying that his rich wife allowed him to take less money. I'm saying that you're wrong - even taking team friendly deals he made literally hundreds of millions of dollars. It's a really dumb argument.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Actually, it is your point. You're saying that his rich wife allowed him to take less money. I'm saying that you're wrong - even taking team friendly deals he made literally hundreds of millions of dollars. It's a really dumb argument.
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This is why my specific question about what annual salary or what net worth enables such a decision is unanswerable. Maybe the argument is the supermodel salary or net worth is so high it makes any earnings irrelevant, but that's also true about any star athletes salary these days. No star 'needs' even the annual salaries they make & despite not maxing out his money Brady is in top-5 NFL earners ever. Brady's salaries do not factor into any objective evaluation of his performances on the field & to say his wife discounts the performances is absurd.
 
i went with brady, considering his record and on which stage he performed, but
u forgot Breanna. other world record of achievement. basically, the mvp of every championship tourney she's in, since middle school. unreal. she crushed the ncaa's (4 for 4!), then crushed the wbna.
she's still playing, and should be for a while more. good luck to anyone, anywhere, trying to even come close to her record of accomplishment.
seems like bill russell should be on this, too.
 
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You could make a case that Red Auerbach is the GOAT of GOATs. He is undeniably the biggest winner in the history of sports.
 
Palatine said:
You could make a case that Red Auerbach is the GOAT of GOATs. He is undeniably the biggest winner in the history of sports.
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Jack Nicklaus had 18 Golf major titles plus a US Amateur title... Red had 16 NBA Titles. I vote for Jack
 
No Michael Phelps? But really, they literally changed the scoring criteria for womens gymnastics as Biles was en route to the Olympics. She was soo other worldly that she eased through highest difficulty stunts. She really is above all else. As far as team sports isn’t Wayne really the great one? He didn’t need 40 years like Brady
 
MervthePurvis said:
No Michael Phelps? But really, they literally changed the scoring criteria for womens gymnastics as Biles was en route to the Olympics. She was soo other worldly that she eased through highest difficulty stunts. She really is above all else. As far as team sports isn’t Wayne really the great one? He didn’t need 40 years like Brady
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Some of Gretzky's stats are incredible.

He is the all-time leading point scorer, all-time leader in assists and all-time leader in goals. If you take away his all his goals, he is still the all-time leading scorer. He has more assists than any other player has goals and assists combined.
 
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Kolumbo said:
Bo
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IMG_20221118_090341.jpg
 
All this "blah blah blah" about Brady, and all wrong.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Actually, it is your point. You're saying that his rich wife allowed him to take less money. I'm saying that you're wrong - even taking team friendly deals he made literally hundreds of millions of dollars. It's a really dumb argument.
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It a fact. That's not in doubt. The Pats gained a significant advantage over the rest of the NFL because of it.

Yes, he made lots of money. But he made less than his market value. What's not to understand?
 
jibsey said:
What a joke. Babe Ruth at 8%?
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I know I choose Ruth without hesitation. Was the first superstar athlete. Yes I know it was different times back then as no one threw 95 plus. Also back then there was zero technology or film or scouting reports, no athlete to model his game after. Also did it all on cigars and beer.

Created a dynasty in Boston and turned the Yankees from the loser team from NY into the Yankee dynasty.
 
If Brady is the greatest football player ever shouldn’t he be able to catch passes. Your the GOAT football player right?
 
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