Give Kevin a Chance

[HuskyHawk]

He is to blame more than even you would like to acknowledge Top Dog but mostly I agree with much of what you say. I mean no matter how many question marks were there heading into the season there so many who already gave up instead hoping they'd have their day. Well they have it, it's here and it's time to celebrate because they were right. Hope they feel real good about that because it seems they're happy.

Time to move on, will be interesting times for our program but there won't be the same fan base ever again. It will never feel the same, even on the Boneyard. It's a very sad time for a proud program yet the chests are being pounded.

I agree that it is sad. But here is what will deepen the divide...Kevin fighting to keep his job or holding UConn hostage for the full buyout. Honestly, while you can say that anyone would do that, I won't forgive him if he does. He's killing the program, and the one thing that can put a nail in the coffin is him refusing to walk away on some sort of negotiated settlement. If he does that, I think he'll be a happier man, and most here will come to remember him fondly again. It's beyond obvious that he isn't any happier than we are. I know he wants to win...I don't think he knows how. And it's killing him. He needs to move on for himself and for the program.

 

[SeattleHoop]

I agree with your conclusion. I would like for UConn and Kevin to find a way to part ways, where both win. Maybe Kevin gets a new NBA assistant job and partial buyout. If he is back, the team will probably be slightly better. As for real progress, I think it can only occur when Kevin realizes that he is in over his head. That his schemes don't work, the players don't buy in, he can't seem to evaluate talent (not just recruiting, but among the guys on the roster) and he doesn't prepare well for specific opponents or adjust in games. He has a lot to learn about being a head coach.

Exactly. The UConn men’s basketball head coaching position isn’t an internship. It’s a job for top tier professionals. We don’t have time for a big learning curve.

I love Ollie as a person. But this job is above his level at this time.

I’ve been fired from a job before. It sucked at the time. But I was in way over my head working in a field I really had no business working in.

I am now going to be a doctor and I wouldn’t change a thing. I am even friends with the guy who fired me.

Everything works out eventually. You have to read the writing on the wall. Often times parting ways if needed, is the best move for both parties.

 

[JMick]

Reality Sucks and that’s pretty much Reality

No actually it is the website rules

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You assume he is leaving money on the table. What if the NCAA comes back hard on violations UConn committed under his watch. He leaves with 0. Its called negotiation for a reason. Leave now, get something. Leave later, potentially get fired for cause and leave with 0. Please, for the sanctity of the boneyard, think before you post. It may be hard, but give it a try.

Considering the speed that NCAA investigations normally travel, waiting for the outcome will at a minimum guarantee KO another year at the helm.

If this is how you negotiate I want to know what business you are in so we can negotiate some deals between our firms.

 

[Stainmaster]

I have just as much connection to this University and this athletic program as Kevin Ollie.

Nope, not true. Recognizing the ridiculousness of that statement doesn't make me a relative of Ollie or someone who doesn't want him fired.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Nope, not true. Recognizing the ridiculousness of that statement doesn't make me a relative of Ollie or someone who doesn't want him fired.

Don't be so sure Stainmaster, for all we know Freescooter is Jim Penders.

 

[Huskybass]

I'm not actually advocating for Ollie to get another year, but I hate when people disregard the 2014 natty. It is part of the tapestry that is KO's tenure at UConn and a big part of it at that.

That said, KO looks lost. I don't think he sees a way out of the hole he's dug, except to keep right on digging. Ending KO's tenure at UConn is a mercy killing at this point. I appreciate all he's done for us as a player, an assistant and head coach, but it is time for him to go.

You reached the exact same conclusion that I reached, so digging back five seasons instead of four did nothing to alter the same rationale conclusion and that is that it is indeed time for a change. If you are going to quote someone's post quote it, don't change it to fit your agenda.

You painted the rosiest picture possible by including the national championship of the 2013-14 season, yet still reach the same conclusion that a change needs to be made.

 

[djct1999]

Considering the speed that NCAA investigations normally travel, waiting for the outcome will at a minimum guarantee KO another year at the helm.

If this is how you negotiate I want to know what business you are in so we can negotiate some deals between our firms.

You have no idea about the speed of the NCAA and this investigation. Nor do you have any idea of the severity or if KO is in trouble. My guess is KO has more answers than you do and depending on those answers, it could serve him well to leave now.

 

[ASweet3781]

Ignore what you see on the court. Ignore the losses. The record breaking losses. The middle of the pack to near bottom finishes in a mid major league. The bad coaching and management during games. The stagnant offense. The transfers. The bad evaluations of players. Him sitting there on his chair with a confused look on his face. Again ignore it all. That is fine.

Can the Ollie second chance crowd give any evidence of Ollie himself promising to turn this thing around? That he is fed up with the losing? That he finds it unacceptable? That he takes responsibility? That he promises to fix it? His NOT A DIME BACK moment? Anything that can inspire confidence in himself going forward? You can't point to it because it's not there. The body language he showed last press conference wouldn't get you hired for an entry level job.

 

[Austin316]

Yeah let's wait until the season is over and we go through the process before we start speculating on transfers and decommits

Next season is going to look like a wagon on fire... blaze.

 

[NCHusky91]

The team is #130 in the Sagarin Ratings. If this were soccer he would have been fired in '15 after missing the tournament.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You have no idea about the speed of the NCAA and this investigation. Nor do you have any idea of the severity or if KO is in trouble. My guess is KO has more answers than you do and depending on those answers, it could serve him well to leave now.

Before this goes off on a tangent I will lead with a) I believe the school will replace KO this ofseason and b) I believe this is the correct move.

I've seen enough over the years to realize that in order for the current investigation to be used against KO at the time we would want to dismiss him (April, not July), the results would need to come oiut very soon. I don't see in any way, judging from experience with the NCAA that the results will be announced in any real time,and even if they were, there still would be the appeals process.

What you are suggesting is basically bluffing in a high stakes poker game where all the cards are facing up.

I don't know what KO's thought process is but there are a number of cases (Pappas at UMass, Ruland at Iona) where coaches negotiated down the total balance of a contract to delays getting fired, all on the belief in their abilities, feeling the additional year would prove they were worth keeping (those two failed but Tom Coughlin,after the 2006 seasondid the same and ended up winning the super bowl).

If you want to guaranty that KO remains for another year your approach will work.

 

[JMick]

Next season is going to look like a wagon on fire... blaze.

Next year is going to be bad no matter what. Might as well rip the band aid off now

 

[djct1999]

Before this goes off on a tangent I will lead with a) I believe the school will replace KO this ofseason and b) I believe this is the correct move.

I've seen enough over the years to realize that in order for the current investigation to be used against KO at the time we would want to dismiss him (April, not July), the results would need to come oiut very soon. I don't see in any way, judging from experience with the NCAA that the results will be announced in any real time,and even if they were, there still would be the appeals process.

What you are suggesting is basically bluffing in a high stakes poker game where all the cards are facing up.

I don't know what KO's thought process is but there are a number of cases (Pappas at UMass, Ruland at Iona) where coaches negotiated down the total balance of a contract to delays getting fired, all on the belief in their abilities, feeling the additional year would prove they were worth keeping (those two failed but Tom Coughlin,after the 2006 seasondid the same and ended up winning the super bowl).

If you want to guaranty that KO remains for another year your approach will work.

Again, you have no idea what those cards faced up are showing. Your presumptions are as good or bad as mine. In this game of poker, AD DB risks time while KO risks money. Advantage, DB. I am not saying KO should leave money on the table, I am saying there are very real reasons to believe he may not get the full buyout.

 

[JMick]

Again, you have no idea what those cards faced up are showing. Your presumptions are as good or bad as mine. In this game of poker, AD DB risks time while KO risks money. Advantage, DB. I am not saying KO should leave money on the table, I am saying there are very real reasons to believe he may not get the full buyout.

Ollie is probably more likely to negotiate if he knows he broke the rules. If he doesn't think he did or actually didn't then the chance of talking him down is probably pretty slim. Unfortunately that puts our AD in a tough spot unless we have more information on the situation than Ollie knows about

 

[PAHusky]

We had an awful season. We had an awful season last year. We're not crushing it on the recruiting end of things. We're under NCAA investigation (which some on this board seem to overlook due to other programs also being in hot water). Attendance is poor.

If this were any other coach they'd be gone by the end of the season. KO was a great player, and his leading us to a championship was an impressive feat that certainly bought him good will for a few years. That well has run dry and then some. Not sure what the debate is even about re: keeping him.

 

[Huskybass]

We had an awful season. We had an awful season last year. We're not crushing it on the recruiting end of things. We're under NCAA sanctions (which some on this board seem to overlook due to other program's also being in hot water). Attendance is poor.

If this were any other coach they'd be gone by the end of the season. KO was a great player, and his leading us to a championship was an impressive feat that certainly bought him good will for a few years. That well has run dry and then some. Not sure what the debate is even about re: keeping him.

Perfectly stated. Some are just unwilling to see it.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Nope. I’m not like Tenspro or BUconn running around and crowing about how their initial read on Ollie was correct as the program burns.

Pessimists can hope that they’re wrong. When you posted about how Ollie should be fired after the Kansas game, were you actively rooting for him to prove your point in the two years that followed.

I have never rooted for the team or KO to fail. I hoped to be wrong that JC's shoehorned-in inexperienced assistant was woefully unprepared to run a major program, that Warde acquiescing to that maneuver did not signify a small-time outlook for the program.

After 2 years it appeared that I was wrong, and I was ecstatic for that to be the case.

However, the next 4 years have shown that I was mostly right, and our program's situation saddens and angers me as it does most everyone here.

The only thing KO was qualified to do was coach up someone else's hand-selected recruits, who already had a lot of the raw material (toughness, skill, basketball IQ) and were eager to be coached into a winning team. Everything else, recruiting, retention, development of those recruits, i.e. those things that required some understanding of major college basketball, he was completely in over his head.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Again, you have no idea what those cards faced up are showing. Your presumptions are as good or bad as mine. In this game of poker, AD DB risks time while KO risks money. Advantage, DB. I am not saying KO should leave money on the table, I am saying there are very real reasons to believe he may not get the full buyout.

As I said before, I would love to enter a business negotiation with you.

If KO leaves money on the table (a distinct possibility) it won't be out of fear of losing more.

 

[DMIL]

T

You can certainly respect him for what he did in the past. I would never presume to attack his character, because nobody is in a position to do that.

But, he's currently paid $3MM to be a head coach and is failing. I don't think it's fair to conflate his past as a player with his current situation either in regards to notion we "owe" him anything.

There is no conflation here and what I said isn't mutually exclusive. Simply put we can be upset, frustrated, irate, manic, all the above however we do not have to treat our UCONN brother like someone that is not part of the family and has not contributed to the program we all love. We don't have to treat him like someone we don't know off of the street. There is a line between that and being disrespectful to our brother. We all know what he did for the program the first 3 to 4 years which includes our 4 National Championship in 19 years at the time. We know the really good teams he was a part of as a player. We know the good teams that he was a part of as an Assistant Coach. That is worth something and should be for all of us. It's certainly worth at a minimum giving him our respect no matter if he continues to be our coach or not until something comes out that suggests the contrary.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

So Kevin chose to be in this conference? Kevin chose to have half is roster injured and his future star PG injured two straight seasons? He chose to have to fill last minute roster spots last summer after soft players decided to transfer out because they didn't want to work hard and do it the UConn way?

He did choose to stay at UConn and turn down much more money in NBA coaching. Says a lot about his dedication to the university. But after the way he has been treated, he probably wishes he wasn't so loyal to people who could care less about him.

Strip out the innuendo and insults, childish arguments and vulgarities, and you have a solid group of caring posters, who are watching with eyes wide open, have great respect the past, and would like to see good basketball in the future. I include myself in this group.

I spend much of my time alternating between ignoring the most negative bloviators and trying to upgrade the tone of discourse ion this board, so I don't appreciate being lumped in with the harshest critics simply because I have sadly concluded that my eyes & ears recognize sustained lack of success over enough time for a reasonable person to argue in favor of a change.

 

[KemBaller]

I don’t think so. If we had a tough season but a winning record and were losing close games instead of getting blown out, then I think KO could be back, but it’s gotten to a point where he has to be taken out of his misery regardless of the negative public and political outcry coming because of the large buyout.

Wasn't the majority of Calhoun's "not a dime back" speech about how much money the program makes for the university? How long would it really take to pay off Ollie's buyout and then some once the program is up and running again? Nobody talks about this aspect.

 

[KemBaller]

Strip out the innuendo and insults, childish arguments and vulgarities, and you have a solid group of caring posters, who are watching with eyes wide open, have great respect the past, and would like to see good basketball in the future. I include myself in this group.

I spend much of my time alternating between ignoring the most negative bloviators and trying to upgrade the tone of discourse ion this board, so I don't appreciate being lumped in with the harshest critics simply because I have sadly concluded that my eyes & ears recognize sustained lack of success over enough time for a reasonable person to argue in favor of a change.

If I ever

As I said before, I would love to enter a business negotiation with you.

If KO leaves money on the table (a distinct possibility) it won't be out of fear of losing more.

KO is going to get every dollar available to him and it ultimately won't matter.

 

[HuskyHawk]

T

There is no conflation here and what I said isn't mutually exclusive. Simply put we can be upset, frustrated, irate, manic, all the above however we do not have to treat our UCONN brother like someone that is not part of the family and has not contributed to the program we all love. We don't have to treat him like someone we don't know off of the street. There is a line between that and being disrespectful to our brother. We all know what he did for the program the first 3 to 4 years which includes our 4 National Championship in 19 years at the time. We know the really good teams he was a part of as a player. We know the good teams that he was a part of as an Assistant Coach. That is worth something and should be for all of us. It's certainly worth at a minimum giving him our respect no matter if he continues to be our coach or not until something comes out that suggests the contrary.

Yes, I get all that. But this word "respect" doesn't mean what people have come to believe it means. It's earned...constantly. You don't get respect for behavior 20 years ago, if your behavior today doesn't warrant it. A WWII veteran turned criminal doesn't get a pass. So I respect him...a little less than I did, but I still do. Here is what will cause me to lose my remaining respect for him though: if he insists on coming back, knowing full well that he can't do the job he was hired to do, or as an alternative decides to damage UConn and the basketball program by insisting on his full buyout if he is fired. Those are the actions of someone who is trying to harm UConn basketball. Nothing will make me respect Kevin Ollie more at this point than for him to realize he needs to move on, and for him to make that as painless for UConn as possible.

 

[DMIL]

H

If everyone asked themselves objectively -- if we had a head coach from outside the UConn family instead of KO and we give said coach KO's record, all the good and bad including the present state of the program. Would you be willing to give that coach one more year? It's hard for me to be dispassionate about KO too but if I go with my head I say ANY coach whose program is on the trajectory similar to UConn's the last four years should be fired.

Honestly...it's 50 /50 based on his ability, capacity before relative to now. It feels like there is something we do not know about the situation and some of the key dynamics behind the scenes which can be a big red flag. It's not our fault that we don't have that kind of clarity so yes the coach, staff and administration has to be accountable for this incredible build up of frustration. We don't know what we don't know. Honestly, absent of scandal a National Title gets you at least 4 to 5 years post title and we are about at that point anyway. Some people would say more. What wasn't expected by anyone was complete sudden nose dive of our program and the product that we see on the court. I'd say these are extenuating circumstances that deserve considerable review and scrutiny. Maybe there is a story here, maybe not. It's hard to expect us to decipher all of these factors with the dense "FOG" we are in at this time. It's all fair.

 

[djct1999]

As I said before, I would love to enter a business negotiation with you.

If KO leaves money on the table (a distinct possibility) it won't be out of fear of losing more.

So if he leaves money on the table, what reason would it be? He will only do so with fear of firing with cause.

Lets do business. Whatever the hell you do.

 

[SubbaBub]

I'm not actually advocating for Ollie to get another year, but I hate when people disregard the 2014 natty. It is part of the tapestry that is KO's tenure at UConn and a big part of it at that.

That said, KO looks lost. I don't think he sees a way out of the hole he's dug, except to keep right on digging. Ending KO's tenure at UConn is a mercy killing at this point. I appreciate all he's done for us as a player, an assistant and head coach, but it is time for him to go.

That's what makes this so difficult to process. He was not a Mike Davis. He absolutely won that title by coaching.

Yes, he had upperclassmen and a couple NBA quality players but that team isn't winning without him.

That guy is not the same guy as these last two years. Is he that bad a picking players? Maybe his personal life got in the way? That is all I got. I'm sure JC picked most of the guys on the 14 team.

 

[djct1999]

Ollie is probably more likely to negotiate if he knows he broke the rules. If he doesn't think he did or actually didn't then the chance of talking him down is probably pretty slim. Unfortunately that puts our AD in a tough spot unless we have more information on the situation than Ollie knows about

Exactly. He will only negotiate if he fears there is cause.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

... quite honestly the "detractors" have almost all the ammunition given the body of work over the past 2 to 4 seasons.

Enough ammunition to cease acting poorly and take the lead in necessary healing, I'd say. But it doesn't play out that way.

 

[CL82]

You reached the exact same conclusion that I reached, so digging back five seasons instead of four did nothing to alter the same rationale conclusion and that is that it is indeed time for a change. If you are going to quote someone's post quote it, don't change it to fit your agenda.

You painted the rosiest picture possible by including the national championship of the 2013-14 season, yet still reach the same conclusion that a change needs to be made.

Um, maybe to highlight the point that you excluded the the national championship from your post entirely? Kind of a relevant point, don't you think?

Pro tip: If you get butt hurt when someone comments on your post, you probably shouldn't be posting in the BY.