Geno's use of Subs

[Aluminny69]

Someone touched on this is another thread, but allow me to express my thoughts.

When Dolson got in foul trouble against ND, my first thought was, too bad Geno didn't have enough confidence in Heather to put her in.

We got some insight into Geno's thinking after the Kentucky game. One of Mitchell's strategies was to play eleven players against Uconn and wear Uconn out. When questioned about this, Geno retorted: “You can only play five at a time.”, and “When they substituted, Kentucky got weaker.”

But, there are at least two problems with only playing six players in a playoff game: players get tired and need a breather, and players get in foul trouble and you are forced to take them out.

As a former coach, I believed in developing and utilizing all my players. Then again, no one paid me specifically to win games. That being said, I think Geno bears some responsibility for not developing Heather to the point where he could have confidence to use her in a playoff game.

So, let's look at next year. Five starters coming back (counting KML.) Then Kiah, and to a lesser extent Brianna. That's seven, plus three freshmen. Personally, I don't see Heather, Michala, or Lauren getting any significant playing time next year, but I would be more than happy to be wrong.

Will Geno extend his bench for playoff type games? Based on past experience, I would think not. But it will be interesting to see if he does.

 

[UConnCat]

We got some insight into Geno's thinking after the Kentucky game. One of Mitchell's strategies was to play eleven players against Uconn and wear Uconn out. When questioned about this, Geno retorted: “You can only play five at a time.”, and “When they substituted, Kentucky got weaker.”

After the game, Mitchell said: We tried to keep running them," Mitchell said. "We tried to wear 'em down. But we weren't able to do that. They wore us down."

 

[doggydaddy]

"Will Geno extend his bench for playoff type games? Based on past experience, I would think not. But it will be interesting to see if he does. "

Great question. I guess it depends on what his regular rotation is next season.

If you assume that he will start Doty, Hartley, Dolson, Faris and Lewis and bring off the bench Stewart, Tuck, Stokes, Jefferson and Banks, that is 10 player rotation. Very unusual for a Geno team.

If Banks doesn't progress as we all hope and one or two of the frosh are not as good as we hope as well, I can see him cutting that rotation to 8. which is better than the last few years.

Way too much talent to have a 6 player rotation for playoff type games.

 

[Wonkster]

.
The case of the 2010-2011 season was an even better example of operating with too few players. The kids were just plain exhausted in the NCAA semifinal game.

Geno's sixth man was Dixon, a non-scorer in many games. Geno's problem, however, was mostly due to too short a bench because of injuries and the one-man recruiting class of 2009.
.

 

[bertieboy]

Geno has the philosophy that you earn your playing time by how you play in practice. That's fine as far as it goes but I agree that it leaves us short sometimes. If Heather and Briana had been utilized much more in games that we were not going to lose, maybe they would both be better at this point. And maybe they would have helped us against ND. The same logic applies to more playing time for Kiah.

 

[Jonathan Husky]

Someone touched on this is another thread, but allow me to express my thoughts.

When Dolson got in foul trouble against ND, my first thought was, too bad Geno didn't have enough confidence in Heather to put her in.

We got some insight into Geno's thinking after the Kentucky game. One of Mitchell's strategies was to play eleven players against Uconn and wear Uconn out. When questioned about this, Geno retorted: “You can only play five at a time.”, and “When they substituted, Kentucky got weaker.”

But, there are at least two problems with only playing six players in a playoff game: players get tired and need a breather, and players get in foul trouble and you are forced to take them out.

As a former coach, I believed in developing and utilizing all my players. Then again, no one paid me specifically to win games. That being said, I think Geno bears some responsibility for not developing Heather to the point where he could have confidence to use her in a playoff game.

So, let's look at next year. Five starters coming back (counting KML.) Then Kiah, and to a lesser extent Brianna. That's seven, plus three freshmen. Personally, I don't see Heather, Michala, or Lauren getting any significant playing time next year, but I would be more than happy to be wrong.

Will Geno extend his bench for playoff type games? Based on past experience, I would think not. But it will be interesting to see if he does.

What is it you thought Geno could have done to develop Heather that he didn't do?. She has practiced daily for three years, has played in a number of games and has never shown the ability to score or play successfully against the best teams with the exception of muscling the freshman, Griner for 7 minutes on defense.. Like all of us Geno and CD see Heather's effort and determination but also that she just doesn't have the skills to compete at the highest levels. Much as Michala and Lauren and Brianna ( areal disappointment) haven't proved they can compete at these levels. You have to play your best players. You can only use a bigger bench if you have more talented players. Next year I expect him to use a much larger bench because Breanna, Moriah and Morgan apparently have the talent to play at the highest levels of WCBB.

 

[UConnCat]

"

Way too much talent to have a 6 player rotation for playoff type games.

That's my thinking as well. A 6-player rotation next season would mean the freshmen aren't as good as we think they are.

As for Heather, she lacked confidence on offense and wasn't able to produce on a team that had to work really hard to score. Heather herself admitted it was a confidence issue. I guess responsibility for that falls on Geno and CD, though I'm not sure any of us know enough to judge where responsibility falls.

With the presence of Dolson, Stewart and Stokes, I don't expect Heather to see a lot of minutes next season.

BTW, I see UConn as the only team with the talent to challenge Baylor next year and I only see that happening if Dolson, Stewart and Stokes play significant minutes.

 

[gandydancer]

I'm not sure you can assume Doty is going to start, or if she does it will be a token start. My feeling is the fifth starting spot is up for grabs.

 

[sarals24]

What is it you thought Geno could have done to develop Heather that he didn't do?. She has practiced daily for three years, has played in a number of games and has never shown the ability to score or play successfully against the best teams with the exception of muscling the freshman, Griner for 7 minutes on defense.. Like all of us Geno and CD see Heather's effort and determination but also that she just doesn't have the skills to compete at the highest levels. Much as Michala and Lauren and Brianna ( areal disappointment) haven't proved they can compete at these levels. You have to play your best players. You can only use a bigger bench if you have more talented players. Next year I expect him to use a much larger bench because Breanna, Moriah and Morgan apparently have the talent to play at the highest levels of WCBB.

I don't agree that Brianna has been a disappointment. She had an inconsistent freshman year, is learning to play UConn basketball (on defense especially) and will hopefully add a little bulk to her very quick frame. Give her more than one season before writing her off! He played her much more than Engeln, and if she develops this summer I can see her eating into Doty's minutes next season.

 

[BrianBoru]

What is it you thought Geno could have done to develop Heather that he didn't do?. She has practiced daily for three years, has played in a number of games and has never shown the ability to score or play successfully against the best teams with the exception of muscling the freshman, Griner for 7 minutes on defense.. Like all of us Geno and CD see Heather's effort and determination but also that she just doesn't have the skills to compete at the highest levels. Much as Michala and Lauren and Brianna ( areal disappointment) haven't proved they can compete at these levels. You have to play your best players. You can only use a bigger bench if you have more talented players. Next year I expect him to use a much larger bench because Breanna, Moriah and Morgan apparently have the talent to play at the highest levels of WCBB.

Heather also played very well defensively against Griner in the game this season, post that game in had anticipated seeing Heather more, in preparation for the anticipated Griner rematch. Obviously, if Geno thought she could contibute more, she'd play more.

 

[UConnCat]

I'm not sure you can assume Doty is going to start, or if she does it will be a token start. My feeling is the fifth starting spot is up for grabs.

I'm not sure whether Doty will start or not, but she won't play as many minutes next year. UConn will need the offensive production if it wants to defeat Baylor. Beating Baylor will require making life difficult for Griner on offense (which UConn will have the size to do) and also forcing Baylor to work harder on defense which UConn can do because it should have more scoring options next year. We should expect to see a lot less of Faris and Doty on the court together, particularly against elite teams.

 

[BrianBoru]

I'm not sure you can assume Doty is going to start, or if she does it will be a token start. My feeling is the fifth starting spot is up for grabs.

Something I find perplexing about Caroline is her inabilty to hit the spot-up 3, ala Maria Conlon. Even after 3 knee surgeries, she is still appears more athletic that Maria was. I don't know whether it is because Caroline uses her legs more compared to Maria's setshot, but I would think she could adapt.

 

[UConnCat]

Something I find perplexing about Caroline is her inabilty to hit the spot-up 3, ala Maria Conlon. Even after 3 knee surgeries, she is still appears more athletic that Maria was. I don't know whether it is because Caroline uses her legs more compared to Maria's setshot, but I would think she could adapt.

A player doesn't just change his/her shot overnight, particularly after shooting a certain way for 10 years and when spending every ounce of energy on recovering from a 3rd acl surgery and working on the ability to run and cut. Also, Caroline's shot didn't really abandon her until the 2nd half of the season. A comparison to Conlon makes little sense; two different players with different shots and vastly different knees.

 

[sarals24]

Plus, as Caroline has really only played one full season before this year, the second half of the season meant fatigue set in what with all the games, practice, travel, etc. Her body probably wasn't used to it, and the legs are generally the first to go.

IMO, she isn't a pure shooter like KML is. She hit a lot her freshman and sophomore years, but her shot has a little hitch in it and when she misses it isn't soft on the rim like Maya and KML (usually).

 

[Vowelguy]

I don't understand the Buck questions. What would she have done that Stokes didnt? It's not like both were going to be on the floor at the same time.

As for development, there's only so many practice minutes at the post. You can either have the "A" team practice shuttling between Dolson, Stokes, and Buck or just two of them. Had the coaches done the former, you probably would've ended up with neither Stokes nor Buck being able to help in the ND game.

 

[rocky rococo]

Him being a Philly guy, I would guess Geno mostly uses cheese steak for his subs. It must be tough coming up to New England and facing all kinds of Brittany Grinders every day.

 

[doggydaddy]

I'm not sure you can assume Doty is going to start, or if she does it will be a token start. My feeling is the fifth starting spot is up for grabs.

Well, in order to make my point, I needed a stating lineup. Much easier to keep the same starters as this year and move Lewis in to the starting lineup as a beginning.

I don't think we need to get into who is starting and any Doty conversation.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Him being a Philly guy, I would guess Geno mostly uses cheese steak for his subs. It must be tough coming up to New England and facing all kinds of Brittany Grinders every day.

Actually, I thought he might bring out the spicy Italian sub.

As for next year, barring injuries, I also see it as Baylor's run and UConn as the team to stop'em. It will be an interesting season for both teams: UConn integrating youth, Baylor trying to repeat -- it wasn't like they didn't have a target on their back, but it was more mission-eque. Remember when Geno talked about everyone coming back in 2004 and kinda going, "Sheesh, it's all the same people." Not having lots of new blood can be hard to deal with, in an odd way. Can they maintain the drive?

 

[pap49cba]

I don't think we need to get into who is starting and any Doty conversation.

I suspect this is wishful thinking DD.

 

[doggydaddy]

I suspect this is wishful thinking DD.

I know. I just meant in this thread. I'm sure there will be PLENTY of discussion on starting lineups from now until November.

 

[Vowelguy]

I'm not sure you can assume Doty is going to start, or if she does it will be a token start. My feeling is the fifth starting spot is up for grabs.

I would be very surprised if she doesn't start. As I said elsewhere, I see her in a Pam Webber-type role -- dependable senior leadership. But overall, I imagine her minutes (23.1 in the 13 major games this year) will decline.

 

[Alexmia]

What is it you thought Geno could have done to develop Heather that he didn't do?. She has practiced daily for three years, has played in a number of games and has never shown the ability to score or play successfully against the best teams with the exception of muscling the freshman, Griner for 7 minutes on defense.. Like all of us Geno and CD see Heather's effort and determination but also that she just doesn't have the skills to compete at the highest levels. Much as Michala and Lauren and Brianna ( areal disappointment) haven't proved they can compete at these levels. You have to play your best players. You can only use a bigger bench if you have more talented players. Next year I expect him to use a much larger bench because Breanna, Moriah and Morgan apparently have the talent to play at the highest levels of WCBB.

So let me just play the devils advocate for a minute. If Geno "really' believed that Heather, Michala and Lauren as you say "haven't proved they can compete at these levels" and this is after 2 or 3 years then why wouldn't Geno just cut these players from his roster and recruit 3 new players who he "believes can compete at this level". I love all three of these kids but if I carry your statement to its logical conclusion then I have to think that he should part ways with those who can't compete and find three who can.

 

[Scotter]

Geno will go as deep as his roster demands. Coaches aren't constantly looking for reasons to shorten their rotation. They look for a reason to expand it. Geno and other coaches that demand similar things from their players in terms of reading the defense, making decisions on the court, and communication typically have shorter rotations because they rely on cohesiveness. UConn just lost to a coach that only played 6 players in an overtime game. Tara at Stanford has had to shuffle her lineups, but when it comes to a critical game she'll only play 6 players as well if that is all the roster demands. Coaches that go really deep into their rotations aren't typically asking the same things of players mentally because they aren't trying to win that way. They're far more likely to be just calling plays on offense, and not asking their players to collectively read the defense and move accordingly. Really good offensive teams rarely play deep rotations.

If Geno is going to add a player to the rotation he likely processes a number of things that relate to whether the player is demanding playing time. Questions like:

1. Has the player earned playing time in practice? This isn't just effort. It is execution, mental and physical.

2. Does the player have the confidence to play in the situation? Geno has repeatedly talked about confidence being the most important quality at UConn. He outlined why in a press conference during the tournament. When players lack confidence they stop moving. You can't run a motion offense if players freeze and stop moving. Geno asks his players to make decisions on the court and if one player lacks the confidence to make those decisions it creates problems for everyone. Many coaches ask less of their players, which makes this less of a problem.

3. Is this player a drop off from the players already in the rotation? Here we get to the Geno quote that started this thread. The games are only 40 minutes long. You only need a 7 player rotation, but can have great success with just 6 if 5 or ideally all 6 are really good players. Having 8 is a luxury, and 9 or more is really too much in a competitive 40 minute game if you want any cohesion on the court. There has to UConn is all about communication on both and defense, and communication tends to break down the more people that are involved. Players aren't in sync reading the defense. Switches don't get communicated properly on defense. Sometimes teams that go deeper into their rotation have great depth, but more typically they have starters that just aren't good enough to play 30 plus minutes and that creates the extra playing time. A deep rotation can be a sign of strength, but if a coach is playing 9 players in a competitive game it is often a sign of weakness. They typically have to play more players because they lack the complete players that can play in any situation and therefore play big minutes.

Next season Geno should have players that demand to be in the rotation. A 9 player rotation is likely next season because the talent level of the players will demand it provided that the practice performance and confidence level also are there to demand it from all 9 players. Otherwise Geno will cut back to a more comfortable number for the demands of the UConn's system.

 

[UConnCat]

Geno will go as deep as his roster demands. Coaches aren't constantly looking for reasons to shorten their rotation. They look for a reason to expand it. Geno and other coaches that demand similar things from their players in terms of reading the defense, making decisions on the court, and communication typically have shorter rotations because they rely on cohesiveness. UConn just lost to a coach that only played 6 players in an overtime game. Tara at Stanford has had to shuffle her lineups, but when it comes to a critical game she'll only play 6 players as well if that is all the roster demands. Coaches that go really deep into their rotations aren't typically asking the same things of players mentally because they aren't trying to win that way. They're far more likely to be just calling plays on offense, and not asking their players to collectively read the defense and move accordingly. Really good offensive teams rarely play deep rotations.

If Geno is going to add a player to the rotation he likely processes a number of things that relate to whether the player is demanding playing time. Questions like:

1. Has the player earned playing time in practice? This isn't just effort. It is execution, mental and physical.

2. Does the player have the confidence to play in the situation? Geno has repeatedly talked about confidence being the most important quality at UConn. He outlined why in a press conference during the tournament. When players lack confidence they stop moving. You can't run a motion offense if players freeze and stop moving. Geno asks his players to make decisions on the court and if one player lacks the confidence to make those decisions it creates problems for everyone. Many coaches ask less of their players, which makes this less of a problem.

3. Is this player a drop off from the players already in the rotation? Here we get to the Geno quote that started this thread. The games are only 40 minutes long. You only need a 7 player rotation, but can have great success with just 6 if 5 or ideally all 6 are really good players. Having 8 is a luxury, and 9 or more is really too much in a competitive 40 minute game if you want any cohesion on the court. There has to UConn is all about communication on both and defense, and communication tends to break down the more people that are involved. Players aren't in sync reading the defense. Switches don't get communicated properly on defense. Sometimes teams that go deeper into their rotation have great depth, but more typically they have starters that just aren't good enough to play 30 plus minutes and that creates the extra playing time. A deep rotation can be a sign of strength, but if a coach is playing 9 players in a competitive game it is often a sign of weakness. They typically have to play more players because they lack the complete players that can play in any situation and therefore play big minutes.

Next season Geno should have players that demand to be in the rotation. A 9 player rotation is likely next season because the talent level of the players will demand it provided that the practice performance and confidence level also are there to demand it from all 9 players. Otherwise Geno will cut back to a more comfortable number for the demands of the UConn's system.

Well said Scotter. And here's a quote from one player who intends to demand playing time:

“My goal is to get playing time [at UConn],” said Tuck, who scored 2,460 points and grabbed 992 rebounds during her high school career. “I don’t necessarily have to start, but I don’t want to sit the bench the whole year. I want to play and be able to say I made a difference in the game. I want to learn, improve, get better and become a team player with all the great players they have from all around the country.”

 

[Vowelguy]

So let me just play the devils advocate for a minute. If Geno "really' believed that Heather, Michala and Lauren as you say "haven't proved they can compete at these levels" and this is after 2 or 3 years then why wouldn't Geno just cut these players from his roster and recruit 3 new players who he "believes can compete at this level". I love all three of these kids but if I carry your statement to its logical conclusion then I have to think that he should part ways with those who can't compete and find three who can.

(1) Geno doesn't just recruit "players", he recruits personalities. Just because someone doesn't play significant minutes doesn't mean she doesn't do other important things in practice or elsewhere that helps the team in terms of attitude, worth ethic, personality, and chemistry.

(2) He made a commitment to these players.

(3) You're assuming there are other players out there that Geno would take. But he already rarely uses his full allotment of scholarships.