Geno - This one was on you

[RockyMTblue2]

I have not read this whole thread but hope a few see some causality in two years of recruiting misses. ONO should be understuding an AA caliber Big and Forward and Guard positions should be deeper. We'll be bad for a lot of WCBB this year, just not bad enough.

 

[Dove]

Makurat needs to turn herself loose.

When she has her first big game and gets the confidence boost that comes with it, we’ll quickly forget about her early woes.

@meyers7 @Kaizen @Bama fan

 

[Martin]

I don’t have a problem with anyone questioning the coach. That’s the fun part of
sporys talk. Why has Uconn lost the past few years? Lack of depth a big contributing factor. You can blame it on lack of recruiting or you can blame it on not developing a bench. I’d be happy with a 23-7 record if it meant Aubrey Anna Kayla even Molly got quality minutes in important games to gain that experience. Without contributions from these players they aren’t winning a championship this year. And if your Uconn and you aren’t playing for a Nation Championship what are you playing for? Coaching victories? Point differential against weak AAC teams?

 

[HuskyNan]

I have not read this whole thread but hope a few see some causality in two years of recruiting misses. ONO should be understuding an AA caliber Big and Forward and Guard positions should be deeper. We'll be bad for a lot of WCBB this year, just not bad enough.

One of the best typos I’ve ever seen. And quite true

 

[Big Mick]

Final comments:

UCONN could have won that game, except for the reasons previously mentioned.

Look for the Irwin experiment to begin to disappear shortly.

Geno will start to up-talk Griffin and how she is turning the corner, etc., etc., etc.

Some good comments in this thread and then some airhead ones as well.

OH well.....

 

[hoophuskee]

Don't agree with the tone of the OP. I don't think there is an understanding of what UCONN is trying to do. They are trying to spread the floor with 4 shooters surrounding ONO. Anyone that has ever followed Geno must realize that he isn't trying to build his team to win games 50-49. He wants a free-flowing offense.

He'll review the tape to determine if Kyla can defend. If she out there starting he is telling us he has a belief what she brings offensively is of high enough value vs her defense. But he's not about to change his entire coaching philosophy in January in order to play CViv-Stringer-Rutgers-type-of-basketball. This is why Geno continues to get number 1 ranked recruits. They don't want to play 50-49 basketball. They want an open court. Kyla is an option for this team to open up the court. And if you play Aubrey and ONO together you are in no way opening up the court. If their defense or offense isn't a big impact you can key in on the other 3 also.

 

[Twolf]

I think you're taking this too seriously. Seeing people as being upset. It's fans being fans, not life and death. I don't think there is a single person on this board who doesn't appreciate GA and the program. Given that, GA isn't beyond fans voicing an opinion.

I have zero issues with fans being fans- opining, criticizing, observations, or theories. What I do take seriously are “fans” who think that posting demeaning, personal criticism aimed at amateur athletes is their right. They may have the right to do it, but I would not categorize them, then, as fans. And, yes, this is just me voicing an opinion.

 

[Jingo]

Aubrey will be a good player but, no, she isn’t there yet. Too many mistakes, Everyone wants to anoint her now. She’ll get there. Just not now.

Aubrey and ONO both need game time in order to get better .. ESPECIALLY against good competition like Baylor .. they should have been in the entire 4th quarter .. they are the future of the franchise .. i m with Big Mick...

 

[Huskygamble19]

I really don't understand all the angst over this game. It is a fact that it was close until the last 6 mins of the game and considering that only 3 players were doing the scoring,that aint bad. The most glaring statistic that is alarming is the 8 assists in the game. this team is going to have to learn to finish a game against good opponents and i am sure Geno will get them to this end. It is disappointing that they lost, but it is just another teaching moment for the team. Being named No 1 in the nation puts a target on your back.

 

[cohenzone]

Same story as the losses to NDx2 and miss st

too many missed layups and not enough boxing out on the defensive end. Fix those 2 and you can win that game..and probably do.

The problem was, ONO was important to the D and rebounding but was no help on O. In the first quarter that worked out ok. Maybe that was the way to go for more of the game. Using the more mobile Anna, more of a scoring mentality, instead of Kyla would I think have helped. Aubrey maybe. All the unknowable. But few teams go unbeaten, look at this year. It’s the way the ball bounces.

 

[willtalk]

The Uconn team this year had/has a number of weaknesses. Those manifest in the post positions and overall depth. Those are something that can be mitigated via scheme but not totally corrected even by Geno. These issues existed before the season even started.

Uconn has some good players but not in the numbers that fans are used to having. A lot of their players still need development in order to reach their still unfulfilled upsides. Ono being one. The reality is that players are seldom as good as their fans see them or as bad as their detractors view them. In fact, they tend to vacillate between their top and bottom ends throughout the season. It takes a while to figure out where a player's median is. Neither a good game or a bad game define their actual ability.

I can not understand the criticism of Geno just because he did not spin straw into gold. This Uconn team is actually playing better than realistic expectations should have projected them to play. You are holding them and Geno, not too realistic standards, but to your own inflated expectations.

Before the season began the college basketball talk was for rebuilding and reduced expectations for Uconn because they had lost the heart of their offense. But Uconn fans stated that Geno would have them contending because he is Geno. Well as that was also reflected by pollsters and early game success, some Uconn fans expectations expanded to the belief that they were actually the best team in the country. So now that they were beaten by an actual better team there is disappointment in Geno and some players.

The reality is that the players have been playing really well and gave an excellent account of themselves against a better team. Not only that but Baylor is a really bad matchup for Uconn because their strengths expose Uconns weaknesses. Match ups are always important. Could they have beaten Baylor on a given day? Yes, as evidenced by all the upsets that have already happened. But it was not a realistic expectation. Could they advance to the final four? Yes, but they would need the fortune to avoid teams like Baylor who have posts that Uconn can not match up with. Avoiding unfavorable matchups has been what most teams have always had to deal with.

Geno has also done what the Uconn faithful projected him to do, which was to elevate the level of the players he had to work with. Just not enough to match the level of their own inflated expectations. To put it simply. The fans were not concerned about a thin roster because the expected Geno to work his magic and elevate them to a higher level. Now they blame Geno and the players for not being elevated high enough.

Is Geno perfect? No! Who could have done better? Muffet? Remember that he also is still dealing with the after-effects of a serious operation. Some Uconn fans are just spoiled and do not fully appreciate what they still have while they yearn for an impossible past.

 

[the Q]

The problem was, ONO was important to the D and rebounding but was no help on O. In the first quarter that worked out ok. Maybe that was the way to go for more of the game. Using the more mobile Anna, more of a scoring mentality, instead of Kyla would I think have helped. Aubrey maybe. All the unknowable. But few teams go unbeaten, look at this year. It’s the way the ball bounces.

I mean they scored 2 points like 3/4 of the way through the 4th so it’s hard to say geno was wrong.

it’s more frustrating that the same things that cost them their last 3 seasons are still the issues. But that’s the nature of cbb. You can’t fix your team mid season

 

[hoopsfan22]

I will say there is a stark difference between the way Geno handled the post-game versus how ND does it after a loss.

 

[Jingo]

I really don't understand all the angst over this game. It is a fact that it was close until the last 6 mins of the game and considering that only 3 players were doing the scoring,that aint bad. The most glaring statistic that is alarming is the 8 assists in the game. this team is going to have to learn to finish a game against good opponents and i am sure Geno will get them to this end. It is disappointing that they lost, but it is just another teaching moment for the team. Being named No 1 in the nation puts a target on your back.

Teaching moment? For whom? The fact that only 3 players were doing the scoring IS bad! It shows you that UConn's offense [as it stands] is easy to defend. And those 3 players needed to go one-on-one to get their points - that is not team [or good] basketball. CW and CD can go one-on-one but MW can't because MW needs a structured offense to be effective.
UConn's offense needs a high post 'presence' to work. Someone like Lauren Cox who, when left wide open, is willing and able to shoot. When the defense is forced to guard the high post, it opens up the lane for a lot of goodies.
Likely candidates to play the high post are Liv and Griff. But they were sitting during the decisive 4th quarter, weren't they? Over the course of the first ten games, were they encouraged to score from the high post ... or discouraged? Development? Teaching moments?
With their amazing athleticism, Liv and Griff only need one bounce from the high post to score a layup. I didn't see any of THAT over the first 10 games either. Are we getting ready for March or not???
One final thought. Eschewing offense, what is the purpose of having our two best rebounders and defensive aces sitting on the bench during an important and close basketball game? What are they learning?
Again I question, "Teaching Moments"?

 

[UConnCat]

Volnation has nothing on the Boneyard. We have a Coach Jumper too. Several, perhaps.

 

[hoophuskee]

Aubrey and ONO both need game time in order to get better .. ESPECIALLY against good competition like Baylor .. they should have been in the entire 4th quarter .. they are the future of the franchise .. i m with Big Mick...

UConn's offense needs a high post 'presence' to work. Someone like Lauren Cox who, when left wide open, is willing and able to shoot. When the defense is forced to guard the high post, it opens up the lane for a lot of goodies.
Likely candidates to play the high post are Liv and Griff. But they were sitting during the decisive 4th quarter, weren't they? Over the course of the first ten games, were they encouraged to score from the high post ... or discouraged? Development? Teaching moments?

I'm with Geno and think you are way off base.

First off- Aubrey and ONO can't even hit open free throws at an acceptable rate, yet you want them possibly taking 15 foot shots? If you're the defense-- you have little worry of them taking a 15 ft jump shot. You won't leave them completely open-- but enough so you can contest enough and not worry about much more about either.

Third- they can't make decisions with the ball after putting the ball on the floor unless it is wide open. And it won't be. Look at their assist to TO ratio now - and it's not very good. So by putting more pressure on them you think it's going to improve?

In terms of ONO-- she can't put the ball on the floor in any traffic. And for Griffin her strength is offense rebounding and now you've pulled her away from the basket. None of these players are efficient scorers from 10-15 feet nor are they efficient passers. So you want to take the ball out of more efficient players hands and give the ball to either player who is not very efficient at 15 feet and you think that's an improvement?

ONO is not a very good shooter and Griffin is worse. The good teams aren't going to let you drive like you think. That's just fantasy. They have tremendous talent too. Bottomline is if you have one or the other in the high post - they are not much a triple-threat at all. They aren't even close to the passers or ballhandlers you think other than an occasional play. Sure long term get them a little practice every now and then and through experience see how they can evolve. But in a game like Baylor or to feature them in this set - no way.

You want the ball as much as possible in Danger, CW and MW's hands. You want to limit the ballhandling and decision-making of players like ONO and Griffin vs the other 3. In addition, they aren't very good ft shooters.

 

[Jingo]

I'm with Geno and think you are way off base.

First off- Aubrey and ONO can't even hit open free throws at an acceptable rate, yet you want them possibly taking 15 foot shots? If you're the defense-- you have little worry of them taking a 15 ft jump shot. You won't leave them completely open-- but enough so you can contest enough and not worry about much more about either.

Third- they can't make decisions with the ball after putting the ball on the floor unless it is wide open. And it won't be. Look at their assist to TO ratio now - and it's not very good. So by putting more pressure on them you think it's going to improve?

In terms of ONO-- she can't put the ball on the floor in any traffic. And for Griffin her strength is offense rebounding and now you've pulled her away from the basket. None of these players are efficient scorers from 10-15 feet nor are they efficient passers. So you want to take the ball out of more efficient players hands and give the ball to either player who is not very efficient at 15 feet and you think that's an improvement?

ONO is not a very good shooter and Griffin is worse. The good teams aren't going to let you drive like you think. That's just fantasy. They have tremendous talent too. Bottomline is if you have one or the other in the high post - they are not much a triple-threat at all. They aren't even close to the passers or ballhandlers you think other than an occasional play. Sure long term get them a little practice every now and then and through experience see how they can evolve. But in a game like Baylor or to feature them in this set - no way.

You want the ball as much as possible in Danger, CW and MW's hands. You want to limit the ballhandling and decision-making of players like ONO and Griffin vs the other 3. In addition, they aren't very good ft shooters.

Glad we can disagree!
No, of course I don't want the ball as much as much as possible in Danger, CW and MW's hands. That's what went wrong in the Baylor game.
UConn runs a high post offense. That person MUST have lots of touches and MUST take the shot from the high post when they are open. It's basic basketball. Liv and Griff are both shooting over 60% from the foul line, more than enough to take that shot. And they are usually wide open in the top of the circle.
If the defense steps up to contest their shot, it opens up the lane for everyone,including Griff and Liv.
Griff can certainly put the ball on the floor, and so can Liv against a big, slow less-athletic center.
I stick to my guns here and call for 5-man basketball, not 3-man basketball, just basic hoops!

 

[Centerstream]

I really don't understand all the angst over this game. It is a fact that it was close until the last 6 mins of the game and considering that only 3 players were doing the scoring,that aint bad. The most glaring statistic that is alarming is the 8 assists in the game. this team is going to have to learn to finish a game against good opponents and i am sure Geno will get them to this end. It is disappointing that they lost, but it is just another teaching moment for the team. Being named No 1 in the nation puts a target on your back.

So does having UCONN on the front of your jersey.
Just saying.

 

[hoophuskee]

Glad we can disagree!
No, of course I don't want the ball as much as much as possible in Danger, CW and MW's hands. That's what went wrong in the Baylor game.
UConn runs a high post offense. That person MUST have lots of touches and MUST take the shot from the high post when they are open. It's basic basketball. Liv and Griff are both shooting over 60% from the foul line, more than enough to take that shot. And they are usually wide open in the top of the circle.
If the defense steps up to contest their shot, it opens up the lane for everyone,including Griff and Liv.
Griff can certainly put the ball on the floor, and so can Liv against a big, slow less-athletic center.
I stick to my guns here and call for 5-man basketball, not 3-man basketball, just basic hoops!

No.
Basic basketball is NEVER to allow players who are as limited as triple threat (dribble, pass, shoot) as these two are and make them a focus of the offense. Further, they lost in part because other than Danger, MW and CW-- the others weren't good enough to pick up additional load.

Regarding ft shooting -- Shaq O'Neal one year in 02-03 shot 62.2% from the FT line. He should've been at top of the key in the high post too? That's what ONO is shooting and what Aubrey isn't even shooting. It's a bad%. It's "more than enough" evidence to show us that they shouldn't be doing it. Think about it. They are WIDE OPEN - can take their time-- and they still shoot not very good. They shoot ft's at Shaq level. What happens during game time when they aren't wide open/ can't take their time during chaotic movement of play? They'll miss a lot. A lot. A lot.
Noo - also - if the defense steps up - ONO can't dribble. They cant come close to doing what you think they can. ONO can't dribble hard. Aubrey doesn't see the floor well. Plus AUbrey can't shoot. We saw today she was scared to take an 8 footer. Look at her passing stats. They are terrible. Why are you ignroing the passing stats?

And NO -- you're not talking "basic hoops" -- you are talking Kindergarten hoops in which you want everyone to play equally. That's not how competitive hoops is played. The two players you want to give the ball to more were 0-11 vs Baylor. Their combined assist to TO ratio combined isn't even 1-to-1. Danger was regarded as the #3 recruit in H/s, while Walker and CWill were number 1. Currently, overall they shoot the 3 ball better, they shoot free throws better, and their assist to ratio is over 1.3 to 1 vs ONO and Aubrey combined. SO if they pass and shoot better, how is it logical to not give them the ball more? They didn't get to be top ranked recruits mostly because of their defense while Aubrey and ONO did.

That gun you are sticking to while you might think it is pointing outward, it's actually pointing inward. You're looking at things from the wrong direction. They all have to play better but the features on offense must come from Danger, CWill and MW. If they lose-- they just weren't good enough.

 

[JoePgh]

Griff can certainly put the ball on the floor, and so can Liv against a big, slow less-athletic center.
I stick to my guns here and call for 5-man basketball, not 3-man basketball, just basic hoops!

Your last sentence seems to imply that Kyla and Anna contribute nothing to UConn's offense. That was, in fact, almost true in the Baylor game (never mind that it was equally true in that game for Liv and Aubrey), but going into that game, Kyla was 12-for-18 on 3-point shots, and she got at least three open 3's which she took and missed in that game. I don't know whether it was just a random occurrence or if she got nervous because of the gravity of the game, but there was no reason to predict that prior to the game. Kyla also usually makes good passes and avoids turnovers, so it was reasonable to expect that she would do that against Baylor, but for the most part she didn't.

Really, the question you pose is whether on Thursday night (not next year or the year after), Geno could reasonably have expected Liv and Aubrey to contribute more to the offense than Kyla and Anna. In fact, in the third quarter Geno tried the experiment that you and Big Mick seem to be advocating. For about the first 8 minutes of the third quarter, he played Liv and Aubrey along with the three scorers, and the result was that the score changed from 35-34 Baylor at halftime to 53-46 Baylor with about 2:09 left in the third quarter. Neither ONO nor Aubrey scored or did all that much else to commend themselves to Geno during those 8 minutes (although Liv got a couple of blocks and some rebounds, but failed on several shot attempts against Cox), and the lead widened. Then Anna and Kyla came in at that point, and the quarter ended where it began with a 55-54 Baylor lead. So Geno had some reason to think that the team played more effectively with Anna/Kyla than with Liv/Aubrey in the lineup.

This is just another reflection of the typical fan's focus on athletic talent over all else, largely because it makes the game more fun to watch. But a good coach like Geno knows that athletic talent is not a get-out-of-jail-free card that should cause him to overlook all the shortcomings in someone's play. He is right about that.

 

[Jingo]

Your last sentence seems to imply that Kyla and Anna contribute nothing to UConn's offense. That was, in fact, almost true in the Baylor game (never mind that it was equally true in that game for Liv and Aubrey), but going into that game, Kyla was 12-for-18 on 3-point shots, and she got at least three open 3's which she took and missed in that game. I don't know whether it was just a random occurrence or if she got nervous because of the gravity of the game, but there was no reason to predict that prior to the game. Kyla also usually makes good passes and avoids turnovers, so it was reasonable to expect that she would do that against Baylor, but for the most part she didn't.

Really, the question you pose is whether on Thursday night (not next year or the year after), Geno could reasonably have expected Liv and Aubrey to contribute more to the offense than Kyla and Anna. In fact, in the third quarter Geno tried the experiment that you and Big Mick seem to be advocating. For about the first 8 minutes of the third quarter, he played Liv and Aubrey along with the three scorers, and the result was that the score changed from 35-34 Baylor at halftime to 53-46 Baylor with about 2:09 left in the third quarter. Neither ONO nor Aubrey scored or did all that much else to commend themselves to Geno during those 8 minutes (although Liv got a couple of blocks and some rebounds, but failed on several shot attempts against Cox), and the lead widened. Then Anna and Kyla came in at that point, and the quarter ended where it began with a 55-54 Baylor lead. So Geno had some reason to think that the team played more effectively with Anna/Kyla than with Liv/Aubrey in the lineup.

This is just another reflection of the typical fan's focus on athletic talent over all else, largely because it makes the game more fun to watch. But a good coach like Geno knows that athletic talent is not a get-out-of-jail-free card that should cause him to overlook all the shortcomings in someone's play. He is right about that.

You make some good points!

 

[Jingo]

No.
Basic basketball is NEVER to allow players who are as limited as triple threat (dribble, pass, shoot) as these two are and make them a focus of the offense. Further, they lost in part because other than Danger, MW and CW-- the others weren't good enough to pick up additional load.

Regarding ft shooting -- Shaq O'Neal one year in 02-03 shot 62.2% from the FT line. He should've been at top of the key in the high post too? That's what ONO is shooting and what Aubrey isn't even shooting. It's a bad%. It's "more than enough" evidence to show us that they shouldn't be doing it. Think about it. They are WIDE OPEN - can take their time-- and they still shoot not very good. They shoot ft's at Shaq level. What happens during game time when they aren't wide open/ can't take their time during chaotic movement of play? They'll miss a lot. A lot. A lot.
Noo - also - if the defense steps up - ONO can't dribble. They cant come close to doing what you think they can. ONO can't dribble hard. Aubrey doesn't see the floor well. Plus AUbrey can't shoot. We saw today she was scared to take an 8 footer. Look at her passing stats. They are terrible. Why are you ignroing the passing stats?

And NO -- you're not talking "basic hoops" -- you are talking Kindergarten hoops in which you want everyone to play equally. That's not how competitive hoops is played. The two players you want to give the ball to more were 0-11 vs Baylor. Their combined assist to TO ratio combined isn't even 1-to-1. Danger was regarded as the #3 recruit in H/s, while Walker and CWill were number 1. Currently, overall they shoot the 3 ball better, they shoot free throws better, and their assist to ratio is over 1.3 to 1 vs ONO and Aubrey combined. SO if they pass and shoot better, how is it logical to not give them the ball more? They didn't get to be top ranked recruits mostly because of their defense while Aubrey and ONO did.

That gun you are sticking to while you might think it is pointing outward, it's actually pointing inward. You're looking at things from the wrong direction. They all have to play better but the features on offense must come from Danger, CWill and MW. If they lose-- they just weren't good enough.

Basketball is a 5-man game, not a 3-man game .. pretty logical .. basic hoops, eh?

 

[hoophuskee]

Basketball is a 5-man game, not a 3-man game .. pretty logical .. basic hoops, eh?

Yeah and if you read JoePughs post which you did-- you'd realize Kyla just missed her shots. You seemed to have acknowledged that, didn't you?

And if she hit her shots-- which she was doing all season-- wouldn't that have probably created more opportunities for ONO inside just like it has the whole season?

You see- there's your 5 man game. That's basic hoops.

 

[Jingo]

Yeah and if you read JoePughs post which you did-- you'd realize Kyla just missed her shots. You seemed to have acknowledged that, didn't you?

And if she hit her shots-- which she was doing all season-- wouldn't that have probably created more opportunities for ONO inside just like it has the whole season?

You see- there's your 5 man game. That's basic hoops.

You make some good points here.
Don't get me wrong, I like Kyla and everyone else on the team .. what's not to like?
And I think Kyla deserves important minutes but Baylor is a bad match-up for her IMO.
Now if AG could only score like I saw her [several times] in high school .. hmmm...

 

[hoophuskee]

You make some good points here.
Don't get me wrong, I like Kyla and everyone else on the team .. what's not to like?
And I think Kyla deserves important minutes but Baylor is a bad match-up for her IMO.
Now if AG could only score like I saw her [several times] in high school .. hmmm...

Thanks for having friendly back-and-forth posts!

I am freaked over AG's athleticism.

I used to hate posters suggesting fullcourt pressing for many teams but next year -- and especially her-- wow. WHat a pressure weapon I think she would be.