Geno - This one was on you

[meyers7]

I'd like to remind people: If your sense of well-being or self worth is dependent upon how some 18 to 22 year old women who you've never met play a game, you need to seek help.

Agreed, one's self worth should be based on how good looking you are, or how much money you make, or what kind of car you drive or if you sit at the cool kids lunch table. Not what basketball players do.

 

[snowkot]

I normally sit out these things as criticism of coach can be maddeningly polarizing and shrill. Troll-food for some. Opinions are opinions - they can't be wrong - they just are - agree or disagree.

With that, add mine to those voices entirely agreeing with the premise of this thread. If the goal was to win, for me, coaching malpractice with his rotations. If it was to teach, how better to learn than on the floor, competing with bigs far more physical than you. If the goal is motivation, one would hope it works - embarrassing your players in one of a few nationally televised regular season games. Not my cup of tea - horses for courses, I suppose.

Usual disclaimers - coach appears to be a remarkable person, without peer in development of those in his program, both professionally and personally. He teaches a sensational brand of basketball; team play and accomplishment above all. Given talent, he and his staff game prep impeccably.

All that in comparison with in-game, especially magnified in close games. The many last-minute losses, (in recent post-Nykesha Sales memory anyway), perhaps the Maya steal -> timeout -> Ketia Swanier's coast-to-coaster to beat DePaul 77-76, the lone example of actually winning a game in the final seconds? Given small sample size, however, the record in such is poor, exceptionally so against UConn's extraordinary record overall.

A sidenote: counter to the quote in the previous post, "Self-styled sports mavens love to reduce issues to misleading simplicity. Reductio ad absurdem, it is called." It is not.

Rather, in common use, "Reductio ad absurdem" is more around taking an opinion, exaggerating it to the point ridiculousness, then arguing against it. Webster's: "1. disproof of a proposition by showing an absurdity to which it leads when carried to its logical conclusion 2. the carrying of something to an absurd extreme." As it relates, it might be responding to a premise, "Coach's decisions lost the game." with "Well if that's the case, then coach would never have won a single game, let alone 11 championships!" But that's a story for another thread...

 

[tomcat]

I'm late to this party, but sorry, but I don't buy the OP's premise at all. Baylor was far the superior team. There was nothing -- nothing -- that the coaching staff could have done in the fourth quarter given
1. the fact that ONO had disappeared, was nowhere on defense and could not hit a shot while she was in;
2. several players who had hit shots early in the game were cold in the fourth;
3. the whole team seemed to get the yips, all at the same time;
4. Griffin gave no indication that she was ready for the big-time;
5. Baylor is a better team. They are right now, and they will be (barring injuries) in the NCAAs, too, which means it'll take an extraordinary coaching job for UConn to beat them.

One of the posters above suggested that "haters" said UConn shouldn't have been #1. Sorry, but you don't have to be a "hater," to think that. I'm far from a hater, and will put my credentials as a UConn fan up against almost anyone's, but I've consistently maintained that UConn should maybe be ranked #3. That's reality. It is reality that, as someone said, Kyla is Kyla. She plays her heart out, makes shots or not, and leaves it all on the court. ONO is learning her position and still needs to get stronger. Anyone who doesn't realize those facts (yes, facts, not opinions) is delusional and must have been stunned watching Cox womanhandle her last night. Makurat is inconsistent like most rookies, as is Griffin. They will be good, but to think they could step in and star against an experienced, very large Baylor team is to expect too much.

So we got a reality check last night. Those BYers who said UConn will lose 3 regular season games seem right on target. Without major improvement, I cannot see this team beating Oregon at all, and South Carolina is questionable as well. That's not the end of the world. It's part of the learning curve as they work toward the tournament. Let's see what the coaches do from here on out.

 

[Figurehead]

All message boards have their own version of Big Mick. Oregon State has a regular poster whose love of Oregon's WBB program shines through in all that he writes.

Perspective is often missing following a disappointing loss.

Every D1 program in the nation would take ONO and her bright future and appreciate her talents. Geno knows what he is doing with this year's squad. They will be ready in March and April. I fully expect that UConn will play an inspired game next month against Oregon and all will be well again for UConn fans.

I have seen your posts or someone with the exact monicker saying things differently in regards to UCONN. Not saying it is you but same tag.

 

[Dokey]

I'm late to this party, but sorry, but I don't buy the OP's premise at all. Baylor was far the superior team. There was nothing -- nothing -- that the coaching staff could have done in the fourth quarter given
1. the fact that ONO had disappeared, was nowhere on defense and could not hit a shot while she was in;
2. several players who had hit shots early in the game were cold in the fourth;
3. the whole team seemed to get the yips, all at the same time;
4. Griffin gave no indication that she was ready for the big-time;
5. Baylor is a better team. They are right now, and they will be (barring injuries) in the NCAAs, too, which means it'll take an extraordinary coaching job for UConn to beat them.

One of the posters above suggested that "haters" said UConn shouldn't have been #1. Sorry, but you don't have to be a "hater," to think that. I'm far from a hater, and will put my credentials as a UConn fan up against almost anyone's, but I've consistently maintained that UConn should maybe be ranked #3. That's reality. It is reality that, as someone said, Kyla is Kyla. She plays her heart out, makes shots or not, and leaves it all on the court. ONO is learning her position and still needs to get stronger. Anyone who doesn't realize those facts (yes, facts, not opinions) is delusional and must have been stunned watching Cox womanhandle her last night. Makurat is inconsistent like most rookies, as is Griffin. They will be good, but to think they could step in and star against an experienced, very large Baylor team is to expect too much.

So we got a reality check last night. Those BYers who said UConn will lose 3 regular season games seem right on target. Without major improvement, I cannot see this team beating Oregon at all, and South Carolina is questionable as well. That's not the end of the world. It's part of the learning curve as they work toward the tournament. Let's see what the coaches do from here on out.

Boston 19 points, 25 rebounds (that’s not a typo) last night.

 

[cohenzone]

Observations and opinions are one thing, but statements made as fact, or demeaning coaches or players are another thing altogether. The incomparable success that this program has attained has spoiled a lot of fans, and has fanned a great deal of jealousy among other programs, along with their supporters. When this ends, and it will, well informed people will realize just how amazing it was, and how difficult it was to attain. Those who point to recruiting failures, need to hit that trail sometime, especially at the elite level, and find out just how precarious it is to earn a commitment from an athlete when others are using your age, your demanding style, and your continued success as negatives against you. I do know for a fact that there are a greater number of players, and parents, who want immediate success at the college level, and that isn’t what Geno’s program was built around. If what UConn has achieved was easy everybody would do it.

I think you're taking this too seriously. Seeing people as being upset. It's fans being fans, not life and death. I don't think there is a single person on this board who doesn't appreciate GA and the program. Given that, GA isn't beyond fans voicing an opinion.

 

[msf22b]

The title of the thread may have more meaning than usual.

In his pre-game presser, the first question Geno was asked (that we can hear) is his concern for Baylor's guard play...His answer was that he was more concerned with Baylor's front line.
Baylor's quasi point had (not unexpected by me) a big evening...Geno playing possum?...who knows.

According to one poster (and sorry I'm not even sure on which site and I cannot confirm)
Liv was the only Husky with a plus/minor positive...plus one.
I've never completely understood the implications and subtitles of that stat and ...a big and
Liv was excluded from the 4th quarter carnage....

But if the stat is forward looking: Liv, despite her shooting woes might have had an overall positive effect on team play down the stretch... We'll never know.

Certainly, in that final quarter, we matched up poorly...just bigger and better and fresher athletes on the B side.
I also noted in another thread that our 4th quarter half-court offense left a lot to be desired.

Would it have been different on either side of the ball with our dominant big present (even having a lackluster night) ....Just no way to know.

In the past (when I was younger and more rambunctious) I was more likely to find fault with one or another of Geno's decision-making...not any more.

But I would not be surprised if some of my concerns were mulled over by him or the staff on the ride home.

One tiny aside: Kyla has come under intense scrutiny for her shortcomings on D and her (really too bad) inability to make (and later even take) her shot...But especially in the first half she defended like mad and Cox was good but more or less held in check. Can't ask anything more from a lesser athlete (much lesser). She helped us stay in the game.

 

[JoePgh]

I would have posted most of what you say and much has credibility. But if you continue to look at the replay--see that this "less talent" (not so) undersided (true) team with only 3 REAL effective STARTERS played against 11 talented taller Baylor players for 30 minutes and stayed within 3 points plus or minus. For those 30 minutes the game was anyones to win or lose.
Some believed Uconns conditioning would over come Baylor. Not so. The best conditioned players are no match for FRESH off the Bench player. I believe the talent for the FF is on this team. But that doesn't help when 4 top teams have 9,10,11, 13 players of high quality an Uconn has 3 or 4 or even 5.

Did you even look at the box score before you wrote this?

1. Baylor played only 8 players, not 11. So I don't know where this "3 vs. 11" theme in your two posts comes from.
2. The bench usage by the two teams was as follows: for Baylor, Moon Ursin had 14 minutes, Queen Egbo had 8, and Bickle had 6 (28 total bench minutes). For UConn, Anna had 18 minutes and Aubrey had 9 (27 total bench minutes). Total bench scoring was 7 points by Baylor vs. 3 points for UConn. Bench rebounds for Baylor were 5, and for UConn were 6. Not a significant difference either in minutes, rebounds, or point production between the two benches.
3. Comparing the minutes of the starters, Cox and Cooper both played the full 40 minutes for Baylor, and Nalyssa Smith played 34. Those three players scored 63 points. Didi Richards and Juicy Landrum played 30 and 28 minutes respectively, and produced 4 points between them. For UConn, Christyn played 40 minutes; Megan 38; and Crystal 39. They scored a total of 55 points. So both teams relied about equally on their top three players in both points and minutes.

So I don't think the facts support your argument that Baylor is deeper than UConn, or that its bench is more productive. I keep wondering what other top team gets significantly more production from its bench than UConn does, and I keep hearing crickets in response.

 

[Conndog]

Aubrey was getting rebounds when no on else was, she was as athletic as anyone on Baylor. If he had a private reason for benching Ono, I didn’t see Aubrey do anything wrong to earn his ire but really compete. She must be mystified and upset with him

 

[BobbyJ]

Boston 19 points, 25 rebounds (that’s not a typo) last night.

Yeah, against a team whose closest thing to a regular post player is a 6-2 freshman who plays 12 minutes a game. All other regulars are 6-1 and under. And Boston still averages less rpg than ONO.

 

[snowkot]

With ONO in the game: we have a rebounder, a shot blocker and a post player that forced Cox and Smith to defend in the blocks regardless of whether her shot was falling or not. That effectively keeps them off the perimeter, preventing them for providing help defense....We create open shots via ball movement.

This.

A bit frustrating - I'd have liked to see them play a bit together. It seemed Griffin was the better on-ball defender on Cox last night. Much better lateral movement, better positioning certainly than the other two, with hops and decent court smarts, especially for a frosh.

Rather difficult to draw conclusions last night, with Griffin's 9 minutes on the floor, the two together much less.

BTW - UConn does actually have a 6'2" post on the official roster. I mean when you're being outscored 15-zip, game's done, little time left, why not?

 

[Biff]

Aubrey was getting rebounds when no on else was, she was as athletic as anyone on Baylor. If he had a private reason for benching Ono, I didn’t see Aubrey do anything wrong to earn his ire but really compete. She must be mystified and upset with him

She may or may not be upset. But, I am reasonably sure, based on years of history, she is not mystified. Geno lays it out. It may seem harsh, it may seem rigid, but he does make it very clear what he wants from the players at all times on and off the court. Most come out the other side of the process as incredible players and incredible people. On occasion, it doesn't work out.

 

[hart2hart]

I’m disappointed we lost.......but if a few of those missed shots went in we have a game.
I’d like to see more face-guarding on the hot players on the other team. Any team on any given day can lose! We have Saturday to look forward to!! Yay!

 

[TheFarmFan]

I keep wondering what other top team gets significantly more production from its bench than UConn does, and I keep hearing crickets in response.

Stanford does, pretty much every game. But it has nothing like the starting trio of Dangerfield, Williams, and Walker.

 

[DefenseBB]

Did you even look at the box score before you wrote this?

1. Baylor played only 8 players, not 11. So I don't know where this "3 vs. 11" theme in your two posts comes from.
2. The bench usage by the two teams was as follows: for Baylor, Moon Ursin had 14 minutes, Queen Egbo had 8, and Bickle had 6 (28 total bench minutes). For UConn, Anna had 18 minutes and Aubrey had 9 (27 total bench minutes). Total bench scoring was 7 points by Baylor vs. 3 points for UConn. Bench rebounds for Baylor were 5, and for UConn were 6. Not a significant difference either in minutes, rebounds, or point production between the two benches.
3. Comparing the minutes of the starters, Cox and Cooper both played the full 40 minutes for Baylor, and Nalyssa Smith played 34. Those three players scored 63 points. Didi Richards and Juicy Landrum played 30 and 28 minutes respectively, and produced 4 points between them. For UConn, Christyn played 40 minutes; Megan 38; and Crystal 39. They scored a total of 55 points. So both teams relied about equally on their top three players in both points and minutes.

So I don't think the facts support your argument that Baylor is deeper than UConn, or that its bench is more productive. I keep wondering what other top team gets significantly more production from its bench than UConn does, and I keep hearing crickets in response.

Touche' JoePgh, Touche'!

 

[WestCoast]

I have seen your posts or someone with the exact monicker saying things differently in regards to UCONN. Not saying it is you but same tag.

I've never disparaged UConn and don't plan to start now. Check again.

 

[HuskylnSC]

I agree with the first sentence, but everything after that misses the point of a fan-lead discussion board. Everyone's opinion on here is just as qualified as yours is. Some people know more about basketball/UConn women's basketball than others. Some on this board have been coaches so they can sympathize/criticize Geno because they've been in a similar role. The rest of us can comment as spectators because that's the point of a fan-lead DISCUSSION board. We all see things a little differently and, although we are not "privy to the inner workings of the team", we still see the results in the games they play. The idea that we can't make suggestions or guesses as to what might've worked better or what issues this team will face is bogus. One last time: this is a discussion board.

I agree with your comments regarding the fan-lead discussion board. Opinions, frustrations, and speculation are a key component of the board and THIS IS THE BEST BOARD BY A LONG SHOT because of the opinions. I just got a little irritated by a couple of comments and I should have addressed those comments directly instead of making it a whole board type statement. Still strongly stand behind the first sentence.

 

[HopJim]

The concept of anyone who posts on this board telling Geno Auriemma that he doesn't know what he is doing is the height of hubris. The basis for your comment is what you saw as a SPECTATOR. You were not involved in the practice. You were not involved in the pregame shootaround or walk through. You were not involved in the coaches meeting. In other words your assessment is based in ignorance. Your lack of information is only exceeded by your arrogance. Please do not tell me how much you know about basketball or what a great coach you are. You are not privy to the inner workings of the team and as such your opinion is unqualified. Thank you

???? Why can't Geno have a bad game?

 

[ReadR00ster]

Yeah, against a team whose closest thing to a regular post player is a 6-2 freshman who plays 12 minutes a game. All other regulars are 6-1 and under. And Boston still averages less rpg than ONO.

South Carolina doesn't rely on Boston to do all the rebounding. The entire team rebounds. They had 63 rebounds vs Arkansas and Boston doesn't need to play as many minutes a game either because of SC's depth.

 

[HopJim]

Makurat's improvement since the first three games this year has been stunning. She's been open many times the past several games but has been overlooked by Williams and Dangerfield for some reason. Maybe they don't have confidence in her or maybe they think they have to do it all by themselves in tough situations ("hero ball"). At any rate here's some of what I posted last night in another thread:

Makurat, the best shooter on the team the past 8 games, had 3 points on 1 for 2 from the field and could have had more. The announcer mentioned how well she's been shooting after starting the season poorly and if you look at the stats they should be getting her the ball more:
Firsts 3 games: 1 for 13 overall (7.7%) and 0 for 10 on 3's (0%)
Games 4 and 5: 4 for 13 overall (30.8%) and 2 for 9 on 3's (22.2%)
Last 8 games: 16 for 34 overall (47.1%) and 12 for 22 on 3's (54.5%)

Geno needs to turn Makurat lose. She can drive to the basket but typically passes back to a 3 point shooter. Would be great to see her take ball all the way to basket more often to take up more defenders and vary the offense.

 

[uconnfan68]

b

Kyla is a HARD worker and a REALLY nice person, that knows UCONN system - HOWEVER LIMITED in her physical abilities

She has the best grasp of Geno’s system of anyone on the team. She tries to do all the things he expects. As I said, I wish she would shoot more, as in shoot enough to make someone have to guard her to help free up the others. We know she CAN shoot.

 

[Argonaut]

Geno needs to turn Makurat lose. She can drive to the basket but typically passes back to a 3 point shooter. Would be great to see her take ball all the way to basket more often to take up more defenders and vary the offense.

Makurat needs to turn herself loose.

When she has her first big game and gets the confidence boost that comes with it, we’ll quickly forget about her early woes.

 

[southofnorth]

I agree with your comments regarding the fan-lead discussion board. Opinions, frustrations, and speculation are a key component of the board and THIS IS THE BEST BOARD BY A LONG SHOT because of the opinions. I just got a little irritated by a couple of comments and I should have addressed those comments directly instead of making it a whole board type statement. Still strongly stand behind the first sentence.

Let me be clear I wholeheartedly agree that nobody here has the clout to say Geno’s off his rocker. I’m guilty of questioning his decisions at time and yet what’s my record? 0-0 and probably always will be. I understand the frustration and I’m glad we can all come together as a board at the end of the day and be civil (for the most part lol) and share our thoughts and insights. Oh and the bolder statement is objectively true

 

[ABCDFE]

I think that there’s some merit to this debate for this post. I think if you put Aubrey and Liv out there, defensively we are better. But I really think Geno wants to use this game as a teaching lesson for those who say the bench in the fourth. He knows Kyla would be overmatched but she played to her potential other than not shooting enough, but she battled. For Liv and Aubrey they were just bit lost out there in the moment. I’m not saying I would’ve done what Geno did but I can see both sides. Geno uses this game as a building moment because this game is not the tournament. But I think giving Liv and Aubrey the minutes to play through the game and learn also holds merit. I will defer to Geno as I’ve never coached.

 

[ScottCT]

Are people “upset” or just making observations.

From some of the comments I've seen I would say some people are upset.