Geno out-Coached? Or not? | The Boneyard

Geno out-Coached? Or not?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
547
Reaction Score
2,226
Once Kim put Jordan Madden on KLM, she was mostly quiet, to the tune of no points for 13:16 of the second half. Could Geno have made an adjustment? If so, what?

Also, for all the plaudits given to HB, she didn't do much in the second half. Yes, the argument can be made that she wasn't afforded enough minutes to do much, but did Geno calculate that Griner would make the necessary adjustments on her and kept her on the bench for that reason?
 

Icebear

Andlig Ledare
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,788
Reaction Score
9,890
Why is it that every time UConn loses a game, we have to have the "was Geno out-coached" discussion? Why can't the other team just be better on a given night?
Amen. Made some choices he might have done differently, absolutely possible, out coached, not likely.
 

HuskyNan

You Know Who
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
17,761
Reaction Score
48,864
Amen. Made some choices he might have done differently, absolutely possible, out coached, not likely.
I can find coaching decisions I may not necessarily agree with even in UConn's blow-out wins.
 

Icebear

Andlig Ledare
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,788
Reaction Score
9,890
I can find coaching decisions I may not necessarily agree with even in UConn's blow-out wins.
Always. I agree 100%, as I said I would have liked to have given Brianna a shot at guarding Simms.
 

Ruffian75

Uncle Mo of Posters
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
236
Reaction Score
38
At least he kept coaching. I can think of four occasions when he quit...twice v ND in '01. Against Duke at the HCC in '04 and in the FF in '08 v Stanford. When he starts chewing that cheek, it is all over.
 

Icebear

Andlig Ledare
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,788
Reaction Score
9,890
At least he kept coaching. I can think of four occasions when he quit...twice v ND in '01. Against Duke at the HCC in '04 and in the FF in '08 v Stanford. When he starts chewing that cheek, it is all over.
that is always when he senses the team has stopped listening to him.
 

alexrgct

RIP, Alex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
10,096
Reaction Score
7,842
My apologies if my knee-jerk response was a little harsh. I stand by the sentiment, but I could have phrased it differently.

I think there are coaching decisions you could question in any game, especially with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

However, last night, Baylor simply had the better team at this point in the season. Kim had Griner, and Geno didn't. It would have taken an extraordinary coaching job by Geno to win this one on the road, and as is, his kids nearly pulled it off. As is, I thought the gameplan was solid, but Baylor had just one more half-level that UConn couldn't match at the end.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,864
Reaction Score
1,796
Once Kim put Jordan Madden on KLM, she was mostly quiet, to the tune of no points for 13:16 of the second half. Could Geno have made an adjustment? If so, what?

Also, for all the plaudits given to HB, she didn't do much in the second half. Yes, the argument can be made that she wasn't afforded enough minutes to do much, but did Geno calculate that Griner would make the necessary adjustments on her and kept her on the bench for that reason?

Coach Auriemma was not outcoached. UConn played quite well. Baylor was better; Better becasue the best player on the floor played like the best player on the floor, and she severely impacts both ends of the floor. Women's College Basketball has never had a player have as much impact on both ends.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
1,141
Reaction Score
1,078
My apologies if my knee-jerk response was a little harsh. I stand by the sentiment, but I could have phrased it differently.

I think there are coaching decisions you could question in any game, especially with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

However, last night, Baylor simply had the better team at this point in the season. Kim had Griner, and Geno didn't. It would have taken an extraordinary coaching job by Geno to win this one on the road, and as is, his kids nearly pulled it off. As is, I thought the gameplan was solid, but Baylor had just one more half-level that UConn couldn't match at the end.
But Alex, surely you can make a plausible case that keeping Heather in throughout the second half would have given UConn a great shot to win it.

I'm not saying it's a slam dunk case, but given the night and day comparison between Griner v Dolson and Giner v Buck, it's at least plausible, doncha think?
 

alexrgct

RIP, Alex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
10,096
Reaction Score
7,842
But Alex, surely you can make a plausible case that keeping Heather in throughout the second half would have given UConn a great shot to win it.

I'm not saying it's a slam dunk case, but given the night and day comparison between Griner v Dolson and Giner v Buck, it's at least plausible, doncha think?
In my mind, those are two separate questions. One question is whether Geno was outcoached. The other was whether there are in-game decisions Geno could/should have made differently.

I can see both sides of the Heather-Stef argument. In hindsight, Heather did a more effective job than Stef guarding Griner, albeit with a more limited sample size of minutes played. However, Geno may have had a "dance with who brung you" mentality, or may have had a "get the better offensive player on the floor" mentality (especially with Kelly not shooting well), or simply a "in the long run, this is a lesson Stef needs to learn first-hand for us to be successful at the highest level" mentality. It's a fair question, and one Geno will certainly be asked. I will be very interested to hear his thoughts.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
116
Reaction Score
84
Geno was not out coached. He just made a mistake with Heather, that's all. Kaleena went 1 for 6 from three point land in the last 20 minutes, but I don't attribute it to Jordan Madden. She had good open looks, but they just did not fall. We didn't win last night, but I think down the road if we meet again, they are quite beatable.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
1,141
Reaction Score
1,078
In my mind, those are two separate questions. One question is whether Geno was outcoached. The other was whether there are in-game decisions Geno could/should have made differently.

I can see both sides of the Heather-Stef argument. In hindsight, Heather did a more effective job than Stef guarding Griner, albeit with a more limited sample size of minutes played. However, Geno may have had a "dance with who brung you" mentality, or may have had a "get the better offensive player on the floor" mentality (especially with Kelly not shooting well), or simply a "in the long run, this is a lesson Stef needs to learn first-hand for us to be successful at the highest level" mentality. It's a fair question, and one Geno will certainly be asked. I will be very interested to hear his thoughts.
As long as you acknowledge it's a fair question, then we're on the same page. All of your points in favor of keeping Stef in are valid. I lean toward thinking it would have been better to have Heather on Griner (if she was healthy enough) for the whole 2nd half, but I cut Geno infinite slack.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
199
Reaction Score
47
Once Kim put Jordan Madden on KLM, she was mostly quiet, to the tune of no points for 13:16 of the second half. Could Geno have made an adjustment? If so, what?

Also, for all the plaudits given to HB, she didn't do much in the second half. Yes, the argument can be made that she wasn't afforded enough minutes to do much, but did Geno calculate that Griner would make the necessary adjustments on her and kept her on the bench for that reason?


Geno was in error on a couple of accounts, had Geno put BB in for doty and given HB ten or more minutes in the 2nd half this would have helped relieve pressure on KML and we would have more likely won the game, BG scored on SD at will all game, Doty was far to slow to guard her opponent, BB is much quicker than CD and is not afraid to drive the hoop or shoot the three etc, HB all but shut down BG's scoring while she played her in the 1st half, doing these things would have added a shooter (BB) two better defenders to counter Simms? and BG, It was not offense that won this game for Baylor but our lack of defense, if we had our better defenders on the court in the 2nd half again we would have likely won. and yes both HB and BB are better defenders in this circumstance. Geno had options he chose not to impliment.
 

Zorro

Nuestro Zorro Amigo
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
17,809
Reaction Score
20,968
Geno, who it should go without saying is the most successful head coach in the game, looks much further down the road than we do. He does not set out to lose games, but there are more important considerations than winning or losing any particular game. The game that he is by far most concerned about, is the last game of the season. Everything else is a preliminary to that. He may have had a trick or two that he could have played last night that he thought it better to save for tournament time, in the probable case that we will meet Ms. Griner & co. again. To boldly assert that "Geno was in error" or "Geno made a mistake" or "Geno got outcoached" is breathtakingly presumtuous, and probably should be accompanied by the poster's qualifications for making the assertion. imho, of course.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
254
Reaction Score
106
Geno was in error on a couple of accounts, had Geno put BB in for doty and given HB ten or more minutes in the 2nd half this would have helped relieve pressure on KML and we would have more likely won the game, BG scored on SD at will all game, Doty was far to slow to guard her opponent, BB is much quicker than CD and is not afraid to drive the hoop or shoot the three etc, HB all but shut down BG's scoring while she played her in the 1st half, doing these things would have added a shooter (BB) two better defenders to counter Simms? and BG, It was not offense that won this game for Baylor but our lack of defense, if we had our better defenders on the court in the 2nd half again we would have likely won. and yes both HB and BB are better defenders in this circumstance. Geno had options he chose not to impliment.

It sounds like all we had to do was have Polizano coach UConn??? It is possible all the things you suggest may have worked better but they also may have been worse. How do you know BB could function at this level. It was clear Kiah couldn't and Geno obviously felt BB couldn't. It is clear to me we couldn't defend Simms and her 23 points were the difference. Griner got what was expected and Heather might not have done a better defensive job in the second half than Stef, especially since she hurt her wrist.

Unfortunately, Caroline couldn't play at the speed of this game and none of the other guards could contain Simms. Was it worth a shot to try BB. You and I might, but Geno , who knows her best, didn't think so.

In my mind, the real reason we lost is that Baylor was a better team last night. My guess, is they will be even harder to beat at the end of the season because Griner is getting better every game she plays. She is the dominant player in WCBB.
 

Joobie

Bookie
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
614
Reaction Score
406
Out coached? Nope! Griner is a FORCE. Plain & simple. I would've liked to have seen Kia play more minutes. She could have provided another big body & 5 more fouls. Everyone knows that HB is not offensive minded & should from this time forward be known as "pass the Buck". Stef, good as she is, just didn't have an answer. I guess the only thing I would have done that Geno didn't, was let Kia play more minutes; not that I think that Geno will be asking for my advice!
 

Biff

Mega Monster Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
3,152
Reaction Score
11,629
...breathtakingly presumtuous...

Nice. But I like alliteration. I'd go with something like "preposterously presumptuous". Awesome alliteration like that would be breathtakingly brilliant. Not sure why I like alliteration so much but mostly I think because I get tongue tied and the same letters want to keep coming out.
 

Icebear

Andlig Ledare
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,788
Reaction Score
9,890
And now that we know that Heather is injured and unavailable on Weds we need to recognize debates about Geno needing to play Heather are moot. That option does not seem to have been available.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
37
Reaction Score
24
Geno, who it should go without saying is the most successful head coach in the game, looks much further down the road than we do. He does not set out to lose games, but there are more important considerations than winning or losing any particular game. The game that he is by far most concerned about, is the last game of the season. Everything else is a preliminary to that. He may have had a trick or two that he could have played last night that he thought it better to save for tournament time, in the probable case that we will meet Ms. Griner & co. again. To boldly assert that "Geno was in error" or "Geno made a mistake" or "Geno got outcoached" is breathtakingly presumtuous, and probably should be accompanied by the poster's qualifications for making the assertion. imho, of course.

The same can be said for Mulkey. Destiny Williams is arguably the third best player on Baylor's team but appears to have been firmly in Mulkey's doghouse since suffering injuries in an on-campus scooter accident. Destiny played all of 16 minutes against UConn. Both coaches wanted to win last night but neither coach was willing to sacrifice team or player development to win a game in December.
 

MilfordHusky

Voice of Reason
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
34,114
Reaction Score
52,142
A few key points in my mind:

Hindsight is easy, especially after a loss. We should have tried something differently. But what? And would it have been even worse?

Geno makes mistakes, but is on target far more than anyone else, especially in terms of preparation. Regarding in-game decisions, he may not be as strong there as in developing players and planning.

There have been a few cases where I have disagreed with Coach, but he would have been right far more than me or any of the rest of us.

As noted, particularly with a December game, he may coach more for the long run than for the game in question. For example, let the kids figure something out, even if it risks losing that game. The gain would be that it would not happen again, especially in a more important setting in March or April. He could also create a teaching moment: here is why we lost, and here is what you need to do to prevent another loss.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
547
Reaction Score
2,226
Who is sphendrik? When you see these posts you have to wonder, UCONN fan ?
I am Schmendrick and yes, I am an admirer of UConn's women's basketball.

Perhaps I could have phrased my post better--out-coached was a breathtakingly bad choice of verbiage--but it was intended less as a criticism of Geno and more to elicit responses as I wondered at these questions while watching the game last night and have neither the expertise nor the insight to understand how easily these adjustments could have been made in the heat of competition.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,488
Reaction Score
307
Nope. Baylor has Griner, he doesn't

Really good game though
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
352
Guests online
1,048
Total visitors
1,400

Forum statistics

Threads
169,813
Messages
4,192,816
Members
9,085
Latest member
Jalan2121


Top Bottom