Geno on Sarah

[BobbyJ]

Obviously we disagree, and I think she has substantial offensive potential, but IMO will never be a very good rebounder or shot blocker. I do think her position defense is ok, and I expect offensive performance to improve, but a look at her overall numbers is not encouraging.

On the season her PER was somewhere around 12, which is by definition below average which is 15. Now that doesn't mean she is a below average player, compared to all Division 1 players, because Uconn plays a way above average schedule, but it does mean that her numbers incorporating all stats were below average relative to the schedule played.

Where many will disagree with me is her performance in the BET and NCAAT. Is it impressive to play 40 minutes? Of course and some slack must be given for that in the numbers because of fatigue, but the numbers for 40 minutes were still not impressive, nor was her performance in the tournament. Many seem to think that there was this dramatic turnaround starting with the BET, but I think the numbers don't support that.

Ice got minutes last year because she was better than Amari and was the only big option left. The reason I say a quantum leap is necessary is twofold. If her PER improved by 25% to 15, that would be bring her up to average. She would need to be near 20 for me to consider her a good backup, at least by Uconn's standards. Aubrey for example has been upper 20's as a backup, Dorka was well into the 20's when she was the third big. On the greatest teams we have had backup bigs in the 30's, I know Gabby was and maybe Pheesa, and Liv in her freshmen season was about 20, and later as a starter moved to upper 20's.

It doesn't matter who it is, if Uconn has a player in the rotation with PER numbers below average, at least for a national contender that is a relative weakness that I would hope could be fixed. A normal level improvement from freshmen to sophomore doesn't get me there in her case. I hope she does show a dramatic improvement and eliminates concern I have for the backup 5, but see nothing in the numbers or late season performance that suggests she is close to getting there. Maybe it will show up this season.

The main area of disagreement is that numbers and stats mean very little to me. The very best shot blockers get maybe 2-3 a game. Those mean nothing if your team has a 20 point deficit or lead but sound good. And what stat reflects consistent box outs that allow teammates to get rebounds? I value timely and winning plays not sometimes empty numbers. If a player piles up 22 ppg against a soft conference schedule and does nothing in the 3-4 toughest games of the year, those numbers mean nothing to me. If a kid piles up 5-6 assists in the first half with a 15-20 point lead, it looks great. Then her team coughs up the lead in the second and she can’t distribute down the stretch and they lose, what good are those numbers? I’ll wait and see if Auriemma considers her a decent backup or more this season.

 

[Bone Dog]

I am not a numbers guy either and like to invoke supposed “unquantifiables.” But the fact is numbers are necessarily an indirect measure of even those things, especially PER. The question is how accurate this measure is, and that is mainly a function of sample size. The more data the more closely PER reflects the unquantifiable factors.

Ice got a ton of minutes in the BET, but that was still a small sample size. And in the NCAA tournament she got rather fewer minutes. if eye turn to the infamously inaccurate eyeball test, what I mainly saw was that Ice kept opposing teams from crushing us in the paint. That is, she did enough to allow Paige & Co to thrive. I agree that she’ll never dominate by the usual “big” measures, like shot blocking. But she is likely to do enough to support Jana. The key is that Sarah will do so much — if we can guess from her HS numbers — to take a lot of the pressure off our post players.

 

[hoophuskee]

Sarah's game is the absolute perfect fit for UCONN. First off, one of her top strengths is rebounding. With AE gone UCONN is depurate for this. And it's what she is more than likely going to be very good at. As a result, she easily allows someone like Ice to play Center. If you have a team that plays fast pace in which you are not looking to win games 56-55 but 81-80, then that great 2nd rebounder is not needed as much. One terrific rebounder is enough. It was "enough" last year for UCONN to get to FF and seconds away from the Finals. And even Iowa getting there- what great 2nd rebounder did they have? If your team is looking to press as well, then that 2nd rebounder isn't as important. You just need to be good enough. Adn anyone that saw the Big East Tourney and saw her last 2 games in clutch vs SoCal and Iowa- certainly we could see she is "good enough" leading into her soph year (I expect her to start).

And as far as Sarha's defense on the perimeter guarding "3's," -- why would UCONN want to do this? In other words, why would UCONN put her in the position of guarding very good perimeter 3's that can slash to the basket when she is probably their best inside rebounder???? When we discuss her versatility this shouldn't mean she has to be "an All-Defensive" player that can shutdown anyone at the 1-5 positions (ofc sarcasm). But she is versatile enough that for example we go against SoCarol she can play the SF if needed when SoCar elects to go big and UCONN wishes to counter. Or if Ayanna is back to being much quicker like her h/s days and is healthy or when Aubrey comes back as examples - they could guard the quick 3's but on Offense they are more like 4's while Sarah defends and rebounds inside but plays more outside on Offense.

On Offense you can put her anywhere. She can cover for any deficiencies because she can score from both inside and out and can pass ta a supposed elite level. This is what makes her versatile offensively. On Defense, one her highlighted strengths has been a rebounder I believe. Therefore she can cover for other players that aren't rebounders. this is what makes her so versatile. This could be in parts why Geno says Sarah is better than he thought because her strengths allow another player's to perform better. Ie that is what great players tend do is make others better.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

Judging Ice based on the circumstances of her freshman play is rather harsh.

Judging Ice’s ceiling when she still has 3 years of eligibility left is rather silly.

In a way, the front court of Jana, Ice, Sarah, and Ayanna is analogous to that of Tamika, Swin, Asha and Kelly (Schumacher). Geno and company figured it out then, and they will figure it out now.

Plus Geno is quite giddy about his roster. It is rather mystifying that his stance has not rubbed off more broadly.

 

[JoePgh]

If you are going to make a numbers comparison, I would be interested in how Ice's "freshman" year (2023-24) compares to the freshman years of Morgan Tuck and Kiah Stokes. I suspect that the comparison would show that Ice's freshman performance was fairly comparable to theirs.

If Ice's 4-year career at UConn is comparable to either of theirs, she should be proud and The Boneyard should be satisfied. Kiah's game never developed much beyond the rebound-and-block-shots role that she had at UConn, but she is now in the 9th or 10th year of her WNBA career, and she is starting for one of the best teams in that league -- stepping into what had been Candace Parker's role.

 

[yhun89]

Judging Ice based on the circumstances of her freshman play is rather harsh.

Judging Ice’s ceiling when she still has 3 years of eligibility left is rather silly.

Agree. Y’all seem to really forget that Ice came off a spontaneous patella injury. Not only was she unable to practice with the team for months, but you’re gonna have nerves going back in the court. If it happened once, it could certainly happen again. And for all this to happen to a freshman? Did we really expect Ice to be a dominant force this season given all that? I get her performance up until the BE tourney and onward was rough but come on.

 

[BobbyJ]

If you are going to make a numbers comparison, I would be interested in how Ice's "freshman" year (2023-24) compares to the freshman years of Morgan Tuck and Kiah Stokes. I suspect that the comparison would show that Ice's freshman performance was fairly comparable to theirs.

If Ice's 4-year career at UConn is comparable to either of theirs, she should be proud and The Boneyard should be satisfied. Kiah's game never developed much beyond the rebound-and-block-shots role that she had at UConn, but she is now in the 9th or 10th year of her WNBA career, and she is starting for one of the best teams in that league -- stepping into what had been Candace Parker's role.

Tuck FR year: 6P, 3R, 1A. Stokes FR year: 4P, 4R, 0A. Stokes SO year: 2P, 3R, 0A. Brady RFR year: 4P, 3R, 1A. This means Tuck and Stokes weren't even "good backups".

 

[Sluconn Husky]

If you are going to make a numbers comparison, I would be interested in how Ice's "freshman" year (2023-24) compares to the freshman years of Morgan Tuck and Kiah Stokes. I suspect that the comparison would show that Ice's freshman performance was fairly comparable to theirs.

Player Efficiency Rating: Tuck 22, Stokes 28, Brady 11

Win Shares: Tuck: 3.6, Stokes 3.8, Brady 2.1

Offensive Rating: Tuck 107.4, Stokes 118.6, Brady 92

Defensive Rating: Tuck 73.4, Stokes 61.6, Brady 84.2

 

[Alydar]

How Brady played in the 1st 3/4 of the season was below what I expected. Isn't how she played in the last 25% of the season much more important? Do others think she is going to regress? I also discounted that it took time for her to trust her knee again. Given that and an expected sophomore jump it's reasonable to see her in a front court rotation of El Alfy, Brady, Strong and maybe Patterson. Besides that group Cheli, Griffin and Ducharme have enough size and skill to play some minutes inside or against smaller opponents.

Everything is going to depend on who plays best with whom this summer. And health.

 

[ju6381]

How Brady played in the 1st 3/4 of the season was below what I expected. Isn't how she played in the last 25% of the season much more important? Do others think she is going to regress? I also discounted that it took time for her to trust her knee again. Given that and an expected sophomore jump it's reasonable to see her in a front court rotation of El Alfy, Brady, Strong and maybe Patterson. Besides that group Cheli, Griffin and Ducharme have enough size and skill to play some minutes inside or against smaller opponents.

Everything is going to depend on who plays best with whom this summer. And health.

I don't think any player was effected as much as Ice by the constant injuries and shuffle of the lineup. Coming off a serious injury and playing your freshman year was a tough combination, I think she could be prime for a huge leap this coming season.

 

[Zinethar]

I was a math teacher. As such I am fully aware there are tons of statistics and it is easy to always find a few to back whatever position you are trying to prove. If Geno plays someone I believe he thinks they are worth the time. My opinion doesn't matter. I'm still entitled to it as all of you are also. I just prefer to like the players we have and am sure looking forward to seeing how they all will progress.

 

[Crossover]

For those questioning her defense, watch the 3x3 tournaments that she's played in. She was guarding down low, at the 3-point line, pick-n-roll, etc. She really dominates at 3x3. That's not even mentioning her offensive game. Nobody could contain her underneath and it seemed like she never missed 3-pointers. She never showed any sign of pressure. When it comes to learning, listening to the coaches (and other players), and wanting to be great: both of her parents played college and pro bball. And she's been coached by her dad (at least for the last several years) for non-school bball. She knows how to listen and learn and is coming to UConn to be the best. At least, that is my opinion after following her since she was in junior hs.

Thanks for this. I suspect that many who question Sarah's ability to guard on the perimeter are basing their doubts on her body type rather than on observation of her actual play. As you point out, 3x3 tournaments require great agility and switchability. Your evidence-based reporting is exceedingly helpful.

 

[Cuango]

I think that Sarah’s quiet, unassuming personality has resulted in a lack of appreciation by many as to just how good she really is! (I know, I know, she is the #1 ranked player but I still think she is underappreciated!) She is a player who dominates under the radar, if that makes any kind of sense. She could score 35-14-7 to some other player’s 25-11-3 and everyone would be raving about the other player! That is one of the reasons she reminds me of Maya! She is so good that she doesn’t really look as though she is dominating as much as she is. This girl is the total package, and she is going to put UConn back on top very quickly!

I think she is going to be another one of Geno’s “special” players who become almost literal extensions of Geno on the floor! Sue, Dee, Maya, Stewie, and Paige are all examples of players who in addition to their obvious talent, seemed to have a deeper, almost spiritual connection with Geno and were able to take his vision and, to a much greater degree than others, translate it onto the floor! I see that same potential in Sarah! She has been preparing to play for him her whole life and having her and Paige together with this roster is going to result in something very special! I truly believe she will be ranked alongside those UConn greats by the time she leaves here. She is a very special player and if they can just stay healthy, she, Paige, and the rest of this roster are going to give UConn fans yet another taste of glory! November cannot get here soon enough for me!

 

[oldhusky]

If you are going to make a numbers comparison, I would be interested in how Ice's "freshman" year (2023-24) compares to the freshman years of Morgan Tuck and Kiah Stokes. I suspect that the comparison would show that Ice's freshman performance was fairly comparable to theirs.

If Ice's 4-year career at UConn is comparable to either of theirs, she should be proud and The Boneyard should be satisfied. Kiah's game never developed much beyond the rebound-and-block-shots role that she had at UConn, but she is now in the 9th or 10th year of her WNBA career, and she is starting for one of the best teams in that league -- stepping into what had been Candace Parker's role.

You asked, so here goes with freshmen PER's for the players you mentioned and quite a few more forwards or centers for comparison.
Ice 11.1
Tuck 22.1
Stokes 24.7
Dolson 25.5
Liv 20.4
AE 28.6
Aubrey 28.5
Mir 21.9
Caroline 20.9
Makurat 19.4
Megan W, 17.7
Dorka at Ohio State 22.4

There were a few that were good comparisons for Ice.

Kyla Irwin 14.3
Ayanna 11.1
Amari 12.0

My point is not to beat up on Ice, I hope she has a great career and I expect her to be better. Rather it is saying Uconn rotation bigs generally are very good, and do way way better than Ice or Ayanna have showed us thus far. The comments about needing a quantum leap offended some, but were made in the context of knowing that most Uconn bigs as shown above, have been way better in their first year.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Obviously is too early to make assessments on Sarah, but she gives me Maya Moore vibes. I think her demeanor and aesthetics as an athlete, correlate with Maya's very much. Maya's freshman year, when you saw her play on the court, her composure, made you think she was a senior. I think Sarah is going to be just that. I think with Sarah on the floor, there's going to be so many easy lay ups for our bigs, it's going to feel like a scrimmage.

Physically speaking, Sarah reminds me a lot of KML.

 

[Bone Dog]

Physically speaking, Sarah reminds me a lot of KML.

I get the comparison, which Sarah’s perimeter shooting certainly suggests. But physically speaking, Sarah is much stronger than Kaleena was and has a good deal more foot speed. Kaleena struggled to keep faster guards in front of her on defense, but knew her defensive assignments well enough that this wasn’t catastrophic. Sarah won’t have this problem in part because she’s quicker, but also because she’ll often be guarding 4s and 5s rather than the speediest guards. Once she gets up to speed on her defensive assignments she will be formidable.

One thing I noticed in the few longer clips of her high school play I’ve managed to find is that Sarah uses that perimeter shot to spread the floor and set up other aspects of her game and that of others. Often she’ll take a quick, almost preemptive 3 from the top of the key one time down the floor, and the next few times the defense is much softer for her passing game or driving the lane. She’s a very strategic thinker on the court.

 

[Stinger92860]

I believe Geno also said Sarah is better than they expected. Considering he recruited her and she was rated #1, that is a significant statement.

 

[JellyBean]

I am just looking forward to the season and watching each player measure themselves against the competition. Who steps up in the heat of the moment vs who stands back and watches. If Sarah is being compared to Kerry Bascom, who was low key personality wise but would become hyper-competitive on the court, we are in good shape. Kerry was a beast when she played at UConn.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

You asked, so here goes with freshmen PER's for the players you mentioned and quite a few more forwards or centers for comparison.
Ice 11.1
Tuck 22.1
Stokes 24.7
Dolson 25.5
Liv 20.4
AE 28.6
Aubrey 28.5
Mir 21.9
Caroline 20.9
Makurat 19.4
Megan W, 17.7
Dorka at Ohio State 22.4

There were a few that were good comparisons for Ice.

Kyla Irwin 14.3
Ayanna 11.1
Amari 12.0

My point is not to beat up on Ice, I hope she has a great career and I expect her to be better. Rather it is saying Uconn rotation bigs generally are very good, and do way way better than Ice or Ayanna have showed us thus far. The comments about needing a quantum leap offended some, but were made in the context of knowing that most Uconn bigs as shown above, have been way better in their first year.

The PER Stat has a negative adjustment for personal fouls.

• Where do you think Ice’s freshman PER would be if she fouled less (which she did by the BET and later)?
• Do you think her freshman PER if she didn’t foul as much would still relegate her to the cohort you mentioned?
• Isn’t not fouling a learned skill?

Ice Brady (79 fouls in 39 games)
Kiah Stokes (46 fouls in 36 games)
Ayanna Patterson (49 fouls in 30 games (7 games with less than 5 minutes))
Kyla Irwin (20 fouls in 31 games)
Amari DeBerry (8 fouls in 16 games)

Comparison to Morgan Tuck (37 fouls in 35 games):

• Minutes Played: 17.5 (IB) vs 15.8 (MT)
• FG out of FGA: 71 out of 163 (IB) vs 89 out of 196 (MT)
• Total Rebounds: 127 (IB) vs 120 (MT)
• Assists: 41 (IB) vs 47 (MT)
• Steals: 18 (IB) vs 19 (MT)
• Blocks: 16 (IB) vs 9 (MT)

Except for fouls, ice’s and Morgan’s freshman stats are comparable. Yet, per your freshman PERs, Ice is 11.1 vs Morgan’s 22.1.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I get the comparison, which Sarah’s perimeter shooting certainly suggests. But physically speaking, Sarah is much stronger than Kaleena was and has a good deal more foot speed. Kaleena struggled to keep faster guards in front of her on defense, but knew her defensive assignments well enough that this wasn’t catastrophic. Sarah won’t have this problem in part because she’s quicker, but also because she’ll often be guarding 4s and 5s rather than the speediest guards. Once she gets up to speed on her defensive assignments she will be formidable.

One thing I noticed in the few longer clips of her high school play I’ve managed to find is that Sarah uses that perimeter shot to spread the floor and set up other aspects of her game and that of others. Often she’ll take a quick, almost preemptive 3 from the top of the key one time down the floor, and the next few times the defense is much softer for her passing game or driving the lane. She’s a very strategic thinker on the court.

No you didn’t get it, because it wasn’t a comparison. I guess I should’ve just said they look like each other. That’s all I meant. Nothing else.

 

[Bone Dog]

No you didn’t get it, because it wasn’t a comparison. I guess I should’ve just said they look like each other. That’s all I meant. Nothing else.

Sorry. I guess that misunderstanding was inevitable. I give zero attention to what the players look like, only to how they play.

 

[Gus Mahler]

If you are going to make a numbers comparison, I would be interested in how Ice's "freshman" year (2023-24) compares to the freshman years of Morgan Tuck and Kiah Stokes. I suspect that the comparison would show that Ice's freshman performance was fairly comparable to theirs.

If Ice's 4-year career at UConn is comparable to either of theirs, she should be proud and The Boneyard should be satisfied. Kiah's game never developed much beyond the rebound-and-block-shots role that she had at UConn, but she is now in the 9th or 10th year of her WNBA career, and she is starting for one of the best teams in that league -- stepping into what had been Candace Parker's role.

And before that, Dearica Hamby's.

 

[KCD]

I am just looking forward to the season and watching each player measure themselves against the competition. Who steps up in the heat of the moment vs who stands back and watches. If Sarah is being compared to Kerry Bascom, who was low key personality wise but would become hyper-competitive on the court, we are in good shape. Kerry was a beast when she played at UConn.

That is exactly how I view Sarah. She'll rip down the defensive rebound and take it full court for a layup, or a pullup 3, or a perfect zip pass to an open teammate. She might also take that rebound and through a beautiful full court pass for a breakaway layup. She has excellent vision on the court, very good passing, high BBIQ, and is fully team first. Not that she can't or won't take over if needed.

As for Ice, I believe that it took her a while to get back into bball shape and even then for most of last year she was struggling mentally with her injury. It takes each individual their own amount of time and playing time to work through those demons. You could see by the way she was playing, she tentative. That was not the way she played in HS, AAU, or USA bball. She always played very confidently and aggressively. The way she played in the BE and NCAA tournaments was the way that she normally played. To me, it looked like she got over her mental hurdle and got her confidence back. I believe that we will see Ice with improved confidence and the sophomore jump and will be very happy the version that see for this year.

 

[reelfan]

WHAT does Coach P think ?

 

[BRS24]

Sarah Strong impressing in early days at UConn

Even though summer workouts just began, Strong is already opening eyes with the Huskies.

www.uconnwbbweekly.com

Yet for as much time as UConn spent recruiting Strong, it didn’t take long for her to open some eyes once she stepped on campus for the start of summer workouts. ​

​

“Sarah’s been great. She surprised some people. We thought she was good and she's maybe even better than that,” Auriemma said.​