Geno on minutes and early impression of the team

[Sluconn Husky]

Minutes: About 213 - 216.

Collier/Gabby/Lou= 84 - 86
Nurse/Danger/AZ = 80
Walker/Boutaly = 28-30
Coombs = 8
Lexi/Kyla/Molly = 12

Did they extend game lengths to 43 minutes?

 

[hoophuskee]

Did they extend game lengths to 43 minutes?

We had this discussion before. If you don't think a player isn't going to sit out a game because of injury or being benched - I think you'd be wrong. Here is an example: These are stats. You can't change them. Below from the link is 210 minutes. You could see throughout Stewie's career the team goes over 200 minutes. I'm predicting that generality. Look at bballnut's she is also going over 200. I didn't understand vowelguys comment about 10 minutes.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2014-2015/teamcume.html#TEAM.TEM

Stewie 28.3
KML 28.7
Tuck 25.5
MoJeff 28.7
Nurse 25.0
Gabby 15.6
Chong 19.0
Stokes 18.3
Ekmark 9.7
Sadie 4.8
Lawlor 3.9
Pulido 2.5

 

[Sluconn Husky]

We had this discussion before. If you don't think a player isn't going to sit out a game because of injury or being benched - I think you'd be wrong. Here is an example: These are stats. You can't change them. Below from the link is 210 minutes. You could see throughout Stewie's career the team goes over 200 minutes. I'm predicting that generality. Look at bballnut's she is also going over 200. I didn't understand vowelguys comment about 10 minutes.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2014-2015/teamcume.html#TEAM.TEM

Stewie 28.3
KML 28.7
Tuck 25.5
MoJeff 28.7
Nurse 25.0
Gabby 15.6
Chong 19.0
Stokes 18.3
Ekmark 9.7
Sadie 4.8
Lawlor 3.9
Pulido 2.5

It does not matter than the individual averages add up differently.

There are 200 player minutes in a game, barring overtime. Otherwise, you are simply assuming/guessing games missed by players, variables you can't possibly know.

 

[hoophuskee]

It does not matter than the individual averages add up differently.

There are 200 player minutes in a game, barring overtime. Otherwise, you are simply assuming/guessing games missed by players, variables you can't possibly know.

No. Stop trying to change the narrative to fit your way. What do the stats say that I sent you? What do they say? What do they say? If you don't want to ignore the stats that I gave you - so be it. That's your business. My numbers are being compared to the link I provided you. I am comparing minutes to the numbers on the link. If you want to pretend that Geno won't bench anyone or there wont' be injuries etc; Have at it. Submit your own.

 

[AussieHusky]

So what do people think the lineup and minutes breakdown will be in more competitive games? Based on reports regarding Dangerfield, I'm guessing she starts over Stevens and I'd imagine it'll be along the lines of:
Collier, 28 mpg
Williams, 30 mpg
G-Samuelson, 28 mpg
G-Dangerfield, 25 mpg
G-Nurse, 25 mpg
Bench:
Stevens, 24 mpg
Walker, 18 mpg
Camara, 10 mpg
Coombs, 8 mpg
Everyone else, 5 spot minutes at the end

I am with those who think that Geno is playing mind games, and that Azura will be in the starting lineup, though the others, including Dangerfield will see significant minutes. We all know that last year's team had two major deficiencies.... depth and height in the post. To compensate for the height deficiency, Gabby and Pheesa were deployed in the paint to guard bigger, stronger players. Though they performed admirably during the season, they were badly exposed in the Mississippi State game . Fast forward to this year's team, and Geno is now oozing with depth and a very intriguing height in Azura to offset the deficiencies from last year. Why would he put a starting five on the court that would even be shorter (height-wise) than last year's team (replacing Saniya at 5'8" with Dangerfield at 5'5"-ish)? Don't you think that Morgan Williams' buzzer beater would have been a little more difficult to make over the outstretched arm of a 6'6" Azura than the 5'11" Gabby (no offense to Gabby's leaping ability). Also, why would he again expose Gabby to bigger, stronger players in the paint knowing very well that she will not play that position at the next level, and this is the last opportunity for her to work on the skills that she will need, all the while having a 6'6" "center", albeit not Stewie-like defensively, sitting on the bench. Not only does this not make sense to me, it would be utterly unfair to Gabby, who will then be required to play out of position in her senior year. If there is anything that we can all agree on, it is that UCONN prepares its players for the next level. And there is no way in Heaven for Geno to think that playing Gabby at Center in her senior year and not allowing her to work on her outside game and ball handling skills is going to prepare her for the next level. Now, regarding Azura's reported defensive shortcomings, we all know that UCONN's defensive philosophy rest on communication, switching, covering for one another, etc. In other words, the players work in unison. Granted a player who is slow afoot or out of position affects the defensive cohesion (ala Azura if the reports of her shortcomings are true), but that has not affected the team's ability to defend well in the past. In fact I would say that last year's team had players who had individual defensive shortcomings (e.g., Saniya & KLS - though they were much improved over previous years, and Dangerfield, who I think we can agree was not "there" defensively), but they defended well because they worked as a unit and covered for one another.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

No. Stop trying to change the narrative to fit your way. What do the stats say that I sent you? What do they say? What do they say? If you don't want to ignore the stats that I gave you - so be it. That's your business. My numbers are being compared to the link I provided you. I am comparing minutes to the numbers on the link. If you want to pretend that Geno won't bench anyone or there wont' be injuries etc; Have at it. Submit your own.

By that logic I can go ahead and assume 300 player minutes per game and then there will be no minutes issues. But that's not reality. Neither is pretending there are more than 200 minutes to be distributed per game.

Your way is more fun though, I have to say.

Big 6 = 168 minutes

Walker , Coombs, and Camara = 54 minutes

Gordon, Hunter, Bent, Irwin = 40 minutes

262 minutes per game.

 

[Plebe]

I hope Crystal plays just half as well as everyone is making her out to be playing. Great to hear all the raves.

I sure hope that the freshmen can be patient about the paucity of available minutes this year. Things will open up a bit after the graduation of Kia and Gabby. But this year will be slim pickings. "Dicey" is a good word for it.

This is a problem Geno hasn't had in a very, very long time.

 

[MilfordHusky]

At the risk of repetition ...

There are 200 minutes played in each regulation game, 5 players on the floor times 40 minutes. Thus, for any single game, the total is exactly 200. However, when one looks at multiple games, it is possible that at least one player on a roster of more than 5 does not play at all in one game or more. That game does not count in calculating that player's minutes per game. As a result, summing the average minutes per game across the entire team yields a number greater than 200. The math that does work exactly is: the sum of (minutes per game times number of games played) for each player equals 200 times the number of games.

When one is predicting the minutes per game of players, as we are here, there are 2 approaches one can take--force the total to exactly 200 or let it be slightly higher. If one forces the total to 200, it is assumed that no players miss any games or, alternatively, it's impossible to know who might miss games, so no accounting of that is taken. The second approach--letting the sum exceed 200 by a small margin (perhaps up to 15 or so)--actually is more consistent with empirical data from past years.

If folks want average minutes to sum to 200, they can scale someone else's numbers down from 210 or 215 to exactly 200. The relative numbers are the same. In reality, there is very little absolute difference. And that difference is probably much smaller than the error in the prediction.

Peace!

 

[MilfordHusky]

I hope Crystal plays just half as well as everyone is making her out to be playing. Great to hear all the raves.

I sure hope that the freshmen can be patient about the paucity of available minutes this year. Things will open up a bit after the graduation of Kia and Gabby. But this year will be slim pickings. "Dicey" is a good word for it.

This is a problem Geno hasn't had in a very, very long time.

Yeah, the frosh may need to bide their time a little. But Coach will play them if they bust their butts and learn the system. Geno doesn't want any biding per se.

 

[MilfordHusky]

One of the things I mentioned in the thread on the starters was how to quantify or value the amount of experience of various players, particularly transfers. There are 3 types of experience: 1. Playing at another school (Duke or Kentucky); 2. Participating in UConn practices as an ineligible player sitting out; and 3. Playing in games for UConn and being fully engaged in practices.

Some things are apparent:

One year in category 3 has more value than one year in category 1.

One year in category 3 has more value than one year in category 2. This may not have been obvious previously.

It's hard to compare when the number of years are different. It would seem, at first glance, that 2 years at Duke and 1 year in UConn practices somewhat on the periphery would have more value than 1 year in UConn games and full practices, but that's not clear now. If that is in question, then 1 year at Kentucky and 1 year in UConn practices on the periphery count for less than 1 year of playing at UConn and being fully involved in practice.

 

[MilfordHusky]

It's funny, I was just talking with Milford about that the other day. We thought that maybe there were lots of times where the starters would be on the court practicing against the male practice players. Or subs off the bench would be in there practicing against whoever.

Point being, like you said, with Azura and Batouly not being able to play last year, it's possible that they ONLY participated in drills, etc, and not in scrimmages and what not. Just a thought...

I think we have our answer from the article. Azura and Batouly observed practices and participated when appropriate, but the priority was given to those who could actually play last year. There are different degrees of being exposed to or part of the UConn system. The eligible players, who are the focus of practices and actually play in games, are more immersed in the system than are transfers.

 

[veryolddog]

What we may witness is very aggressive play on the part of the UConn players especially on defense that may result in a few more fouls. Last year, some of our folks sat out the first half after committing 2 fouls and the depth was not solid. Totally different picture this year and what me might see is an in your face UConn team that may significantly limit opponent scoring. A positive rotation would give not only rest, but a time out after a foul occurs to prevent that second foul occurring to quickly shortly afterword.

 

[meyers7]

It does not matter than the individual averages add up differently.

There are 200 player minutes in a game, barring overtime. Otherwise, you are simply assuming/guessing games missed by players, variables you can't possibly know.

Like guessing players minutes???

He is giving you players season averages (min per game). NOT an individual game. Come on it's not that difficult.

 

[Vowelguy]

I didn't understand vowelguys comment about 10 minutes.

The question above asked about minutes in KEY games.

Geno doesn't play around. He wants his best folks in as much as possible. The top 6 are more than capable -- in the big settings there wont be much time allotted for the rest.

 

[EricSD]

At the risk of repetition ...

There are 200 minutes played in each regulation game, 5 players on the floor times 40 minutes. Thus, for any single game, the total is exactly 200. However, when one looks at multiple games, it is possible that at least one player on a roster of more than 5 does not play at all in one game or more. That game does not count in calculating that player's minutes per game. As a result, summing the average minutes per game across the entire team yields a number greater than 200. The math that does work exactly is: the sum of (minutes per game times number of games played) for each player equals 200 times the number of games.

When one is predicting the minutes per game of players, as we are here, there are 2 approaches one can take--force the total to exactly 200 or let it be slightly higher. If one forces the total to 200, it is assumed that no players miss any games or, alternatively, it's impossible to know who might miss games, so no accounting of that is taken. The second approach--letting the sum exceed 200 by a small margin (perhaps up to 15 or so)--actually is more consistent with empirical data from past years.

If folks want average minutes to sum to 200, they can scale someone else's numbers down from 210 or 215 to exactly 200. The relative numbers are the same. In reality, there is very little absolute difference. And that difference is probably much smaller than the error in the prediction.

Peace!

PUHLEEZE! Math and logic being used in tandem on the BY to make a point? Hogwash! LOL... Seriously, that's a great point that is easy to misunderstand. Good stuff Mil!

 

[EricSD]

For the record, I do not think Geno plays "mind games" with players. To me that has a negative connotation. IMHO what he does is motivate them in different ways. I realize there are different variations of it, but to me, the first definition on Wikipedia is "a largely conscious struggle for psychological one-upmanship, often employing passive–aggressive behavior to specifically demoralize or dis-empower the thinking subject, making the aggressor look superior; also referred to as power games, head games", and that's what I think of when I hear "mind games".

Which is why I avoid using that phrase to describe how Geno coaches. His ultimate goal is not merely to win NC's, but in his own words, to have his team play perfect basketball. Largely impossible, but the striving for it is what motivates him to motivate his players. He wants each one to play up to their ultimate potential, which is often beyond what the individual player thought she could do. Each player is unique obviously, and each one gets pushed in different ways. Some do not respond to yelling, etc. So a big part of his job is to figure out how to get each player to be the best version of themselves.

Not so much mind games as great coaching walking a thin line between too much and not enough. It's one of the many reasons Geno is the GOAT.

 

[Big Mick]

Silly argument!

The discussion is about the 200 minutes in games when everyone is available.

When a starter is unable to play in a game, her 30 minutes obviously become available for distribution to the remaining players. And, when UCONN is up by 30 in the 4th quarter, minutes are then taken away from starters and spread downward toward the end of the bench.

AND...when a starter is unable to play in a game, her 30 minutes doesn't make that a 230 minute game to support a sum of the averages scenario

 

[JoePgh]

To get back to what I thought was the main discussion point in this thread, I think it is possible that a situation will develop where the person among the "Big 6" getting the least minutes in competitive games is (drum roll) Kia.

Let us assume (hypothetically) that the starting lineup is the Big 4 + Crystal. The first substitutes off the bench in that case would be Azura and probably Megan Walker. Over the course of the game, it might be comparatively rare for all 5 members of the starting lineup to be on the court simultaneously. But by the end of the game the minutes might show that Gabby/Pheesa/KLS have the most minutes, with Azura and Crystal right behind, followed by Kia and Megan. There might be a number of critical minutes where the lineup is Gabby / Pheesa / KLS / Azura / Crystal. Talentwise, that might be the best lineup that can be put on the floor.

A couple of other points:

• Basically anyone who gets 2 fouls in the first half will sit for the rest of the half. Anyone who commits a stupid foul or takes a possession off is also likely to sit for a long time, to give others who are playing hard and smart some well-deserved minutes.
• Anyone who is having a bad shooting night may not get much chance to straighten out her shot. With all this depth, Geno will "go with the hot hand", and not be patient with anyone who continues to misfire unless she is playing exceptionally well in other areas of the game.

 

[bags27]

Gotta say that all this playing time arguing seems like navel gazing to me. There are minutes and then there are minutes and then there are minutes:
1. minutes in close games
2. garbage minutes, where Geno may or may not want to keep the MOV reasonable (depends on who the opposing coach is, etc)
3. minutes where Geno is readying the team for a big game or the tournament.

And then there are the variables, pointed out above, such as injuries. And Geno has already said that he doesn't know yet who the 5th starter is because it will affect the whole team's dynamics and that maybe he'll adjust the team to meet the opponent.

Can't we all agree that the top 6 will get lots of playing time? What is more interesting to me is who are the 7th and 8th: Does Batouly present a very workable big on the boards and does Megan work her way through her other talented freshmen and get some meaningful playing time? We won't know the answers to these questions until late winter, but that seems to me to be part of laying the foundation for the following years.

 

[Rixxx]

I would like to add that Geno strives for "perfect basketball" while getting those players ready for the next level. Obviously, not every WCBB player will be ready for the next level. It takes a certain level of talent and development. An example of lack of development would be Nina Davis at Baylor. She had a way unorthodox shot that was never corrected, hence WNBA was not in her future as at her height (5'11"), she should have had an outside "game". Nina is a great person, but she could not live in the paint in the W like she did at Baylor.

 

[augustaTC]

Gotta say that all this playing time arguing seems like navel gazing to me. There are minutes and then there are minutes and then there are minutes:
1. minutes in close games
2. garbage minutes, where Geno may or may not want to keep the MOV reasonable (depends on who the opposing coach is, etc)
3. minutes where Geno is readying the team for a big game or the tournament.

And then there are the variables, pointed out above, such as injuries. And Geno has already said that he doesn't know yet who the 5th starter is because it will affect the whole team's dynamics and that maybe he'll adjust the team to meet the opponent.

Can't we all agree that the top 6 will get lots of playing time? What is more interesting to me is who are the 7th and 8th: Does Batouly present a very workable big on the boards and does Megan work her way through her other talented freshmen and get some meaningful playing time? We won't know the answers to these questions until late winter, but that seems to me to be part of laying the foundation for the following years.

Thank you......sanity at last.

 

[CharlesXavier]

I am with those who think that Geno is playing mind games, and that Azura will be in the starting lineup, though the others, including Dangerfield will see significant minutes. We all know that last year's team had two major deficiencies.... depth and height in the post. To compensate for the height deficiency, Gabby and Pheesa were deployed in the paint to guard bigger, stronger players. Though they performed admirably during the season, they were badly exposed in the Mississippi State game . Fast forward to this year's team, and Geno is now oozing with depth and a very intriguing height in Azura to offset the deficiencies from last year. Why would he put a starting five on the court that would even be shorter (height-wise) than last year's team (replacing Saniya at 5'8" with Dangerfield at 5'5"-ish)? Don't you think that Morgan Williams' buzzer beater would have been a little more difficult to make over the outstretched arm of a 6'6" Azura than the 5'11" Gabby (no offense to Gabby's leaping ability). Also, why would he again expose Gabby to bigger, stronger players in the paint knowing very well that she will not play that position at the next level, and this is the last opportunity for her to work on the skills that she will need, all the while having a 6'6" "center", albeit not Stewie-like defensively, sitting on the bench. Not only does this not make sense to me, it would be utterly unfair to Gabby, who will then be required to play out of position in her senior year. If there is anything that we can all agree on, it is that UCONN prepares its players for the next level. And there is no way in Heaven for Geno to think that playing Gabby at Center in her senior year and not allowing her to work on her outside game and ball handling skills is going to prepare her for the next level. Now, regarding Azura's reported defensive shortcomings, we all know that UCONN's defensive philosophy rest on communication, switching, covering for one another, etc. In other words, the players work in unison. Granted a player who is slow afoot or out of position affects the defensive cohesion (ala Azura if the reports of her shortcomings are true), but that has not affected the team's ability to defend well in the past. In fact I would say that last year's team had players who had individual defensive shortcomings (e.g., Saniya & KLS - though they were much improved over previous years, and Dangerfield, who I think we can agree was not "there" defensively), but they defended well because they worked as a unit and covered for one another.

First, the team lost 1 game last year by a bucket!

Second, they won the amount of games they did due to the defense they played throughout the year.

Third, Saniya and KLS were great, including defensively, including the Miss Sta game. Crystal has been doing really well so if Geno thinks she should be the one that earns the starting position, it will be so.

Fourth, Geno will play who he thinks in order to get the win and prepare just like last year. He did a pretty good job and has being doing it for how many years?

 

[Go/huskies]

Geno has played a deep bench when players are deserving, lack of dept did hurt the team at times last season, so with the 2 transfers and four freshmen, I think there will be a minutes for everyone who is playing well. Collier and Lou will probably lead the team in minutes followed by Gabby.

On the topic of Geno saying Z isn't where he needs her to be defensively, I think its more so defending the rim then anything else. Z has always played next to another post with size at Duke, so being asked to guard bigger bodies, could be a challenge for her right now. Also noted she isn't listed as a Center on the roster but a F/G, that's why Gabby will probably start most games at center again this year.

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[AussieHusky]

First, the team lost 1 game last year by a bucket!
Geno will tell you that he was surprised at that. I know I was, considering the competition, and what the team had to work with at the start of the season. Playing 6'2" and/or 5'11" "Centers" against the likes of Baylor, Texas, Maryland, etc., and winning those games said a lot about the UNCONN system and the grits of our players. But eventually, the law of averages regarding the physical mismatches catches up, ala Mississippi State.
Second, they won the amount of games they did due to the defense they played throughout the year.
...despite they all not being stellar individual defenders, thus reaffirming my point!
Third, Saniya and KLS were great, including defensively, including the Miss Sta game. Crystal has been doing really well so if Geno thinks she should be the one that earns the starting position, it will be so.
My only exception would be the first part of your statement. I think even those players will disagree that they "were great" defensively. Crystal has improved tremendously from last year, according to reports we are getting, including from Geno himself.
Fourth, Geno will play who he thinks in order to get the win and prepare just like last year. He did a pretty good job and has being doing it for how many years?
No one is disputing that. My opinion is that Geno will rather have a 6'6" player to balance his lineup than going even shorter (when he does not have to). Especially after he, on several occasions alluded to the lack of depth and height resulting in his players getting exhausted and banged up towards the end of the season. I just personally think he is unlikely (and it will be unfair) to play Gabby in the post again this year, with a capable post player on the bench. As they say in basketball, you can not teach height.

 

[Vowelguy]

Any husky tearing up something orange is a well trained husky,

 

[CocoHusky]

There are too many permutations, or is that the variables thing everyone is talking about? I think @JoePgh might be on to something.
Gabby will lead this team in minutes because she is the most indispensable to both the UCONN offense and Defense followed very closely by KLS.
It is beginning to look like Crystal will start joining the four starters from last year.
From there it's pretty straight forward IMO.
Azura will be first off the bench to replace Napheesa and Napheesa will rotate back into the game to spell Gabby.
Megan walker will rotate in to replace Kia Nurse when Kia is ready to return to the game she will replace Crystal at the point.
KLS is going to need a breather at some point so that sub is either going to be Kia or Megan. That is your rotation for meaningful games folks =7 Players with Geno having at least 4 starters in the game at all times.
Now since UCONN only has 8 or so meaningful games there still plenty of opportunity to pick up minutes for players that become trusted. If and when Batouly becomes trusted there should be so meaningful minutes for her in the post joining the Gabby, Napheesa and Azura rotation at the 4/5. Not to look too far ahead but it is critical that Batouly become trusted "this year" because she might be the starting 5 for UCONN next year. Because of the recruiting posture ( likely no Point Guard in 2018 ) the next position/role worth investing minutes in is the backup PG. That would mean no backup PG until Crystal is a Senior at the earliest. Saniya Chong got 17 MPG in that role as a freshmen (Brianna Banks got 14 that same season) and 19 MPG as a Sophomore was injured as a Junior and was able to start as a senior. I betting that Mikayla Coombs will become trusted in that role. My last point is that I don't these Kids come to UCONN expecting to start or a certain amount of minutes, defining and carving out a role and executing that role to the best of their ability is always the focus. I don't know, for example, how many minutes Molly is going to get but If her role was putting pressure on the ball and speeding the other team up for a few possessions every game up I'm sure that Geno could find a way to use that.
.

 

[hugefan]

Kyla can be so good. Please don't sleep on her.
Molly. Please.

I think Lexi is going to be solid. Maybe not a ton of PT early for obvious reasons but she's going to be a player.

This is in response to the Molly. Please. Not sure of your intent but Molly is considered a player with an outstanding work ethic and I think she came to Uconn to be part of a fantastic tradition, she should be embraced for those alone, and especially without knowing what this year will bring.

 

[JustinesGuy]

This is in response to the Molly. Please. Not sure of your intent but Molly is considered a player with an outstanding work ethic and I think she came to Uconn to be part of a fantastic tradition, she should be embraced for those alone, and especially without knowing what this year will bring.

Please refers too I don't think she is going to get meaningful minutes and I don't think she's a very good player. I think she's a very smart and wonderful person and clearly I rather be wrong and hope she's becomes an all American or reliable solid contributor.

Why do I think this?

A. From what I saw out of her last year. Can she greatly improve sure. Hope so.

B. The talent that returned from last year and incoming talent. I assume returning starters and bench will improve. I also think some of the incoming freshman are more talented than she is.

It would be disingenuous of me to respond to the post and say " ah there all going to be great". That's just not reality all the time. I think Irwin can be fantastic and I'm very high on Lexi. I don't see it from Molly on the court. It's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

 

[JustinesGuy]

Gotta say that all this playing time arguing seems like navel gazing to me. There are minutes and then there are minutes and then there are minutes:
1. minutes in close games
2. garbage minutes, where Geno may or may not want to keep the MOV reasonable (depends on who the opposing coach is, etc)
3. minutes where Geno is readying the team for a big game or the tournament.

And then there are the variables, pointed out above, such as injuries. And Geno has already said that he doesn't know yet who the 5th starter is because it will affect the whole team's dynamics and that maybe he'll adjust the team to meet the opponent.

Can't we all agree that the top 6 will get lots of playing time? What is more interesting to me is who are the 7th and 8th: Does Batouly present a very workable big on the boards and does Megan work her way through her other talented freshmen and get some meaningful playing time? We won't know the answers to these questions until late winter, but that seems to me to be part of laying the foundation for the following years.

Great post. 100% agree.