Geno kills the traditional post player in WBB

[oldude]

???????????????

That's great and all but I wasn't talking about SC's conditioning in relation to UCONN's.. call SC out of shape and slow, that's fine, I'm not arguing that. That's another conversation.

But that's not the reason Wilson didn't produce as effectively in the 2nd half.. its because she was double and triple teamed. Wilson is well equipped to play 4 quarters. Her effectiveness decreased because she was being defended differently (and fouled).

I agree with your analysis. While we tend to focus on Wilson & Coates, they were not the real problem for the Gamecocks last night,

Gray, Davis & Harris were a combined 7-28 (25%) from the floor, and an anemic 3-17 from 3. We had heard so much about Gray & Davis in particular that I was truly concerned that they would make the Huskies pay a price when they tried to double-team Wilson & Coates.

With no one to take the pressure off from outside UConn could swarm SC's bigs all night long.

 

[bags27]

???????????????
That's great and all but I wasn't talking about SC's conditioning in relation to UCONN's.. call SC out of shape and slow, that's fine, I'm not arguing that. That's another conversation.
But that's not the reason Wilson didn't produce as effectively in the 2nd half.. its because she was double and triple teamed. Wilson is well equipped to play 4 quarters. Her effectiveness decreased because she was being defended differently (and occasionally fouled, but I digress on THAT subject as well).

Well, ?????????????? right back at ya!

I think I've offered an explanation that is fuller than just saying she was double teamed. If that was all it takes, every alpha player would be double teamed and therefore no longer be an alpha player. It takes a huge amount of energy to double and triple team a player, and it takes a huge amount of energy for that double/triple teamed player to respond appropriately by finding the open teammate. Energy counts a lot in this. That's called conditioning.

 

[SCGamecock]

Well, ?????????????? right back at ya!

I think I've offered an explanation that is fuller than just saying she was double teamed. If that was all it takes, every alpha player would be double teamed and therefore no longer be an alpha player. It takes a huge amount of energy to double and triple team a player, and it takes a huge amount of energy for that double/triple teamed player to respond appropriately by finding the open teammate. Energy counts a lot in this. That's called conditioning.

You're entitled to your opinion. I was at the game, sitting relatively close to the South Carolina bench and Wilson's conditioning didn't seem like an issue to ME. But spin this however you want.. Good game last night, good luck the rest of the way.

 

[Geew1992]

You're entitled to your opinion. I was at the game, sitting relatively close to the South Carolina bench and Wilson's conditioning didn't seem like an issue to ME. But spin this however you want.. Good game last night, good luck the rest of the way.

I am not saying she was or wasn't conditioned but her frustration wasn't a very good look.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

You're entitled to your opinion. I was at the game, sitting relatively close to the South Carolina bench and Wilson's conditioning didn't seem like an issue to ME. But spin this however you want.. Good game last night, good luck the rest of the way.

Wilson's body language suggested to me that she was frustrated with her teammates. She needs to just play on.

IAC, she is a fine player. No need to spin anything for anyone...SC just got beat. Most of us knew it would happen in the second half. Make of that what you will.

 

[bags27]

You're entitled to your opinion. I was at the game, sitting relatively close to the South Carolina bench and Wilson's conditioning didn't seem like an issue to ME. But spin this however you want.. Good game last night, good luck the rest of the way.

I don't dispute that she's a well-conditioned athlete. She certainly is (just as Falcon's football players were well-conditioned). I'm just pointing out that there are situations in which super-conditioning can be the difference in implementing a successful strategy. Even from body-types, it's apparent that the UConn front line can simply run at a higher motor. Not that Geno even recruited for that. But it just happens when you pair Gabby and Pheesa against Coates and Wilson, you have to make the best of your virtues against your deficits. And the virtue is that UConn players are in even better conditioned than the (well-conditioned) SC players.

 

[BroadwayVa]

View attachment 19747
"I don't know about you," as Andy Rooney used to say, but I'll be very happy next year to have Azura and Batouly playing around the key. OD's point, however, about versatile Bigs certainly is true about those transfers; they can do more than act as monoliths.

I didn't like him as much as his son Mickey Rooney--.

 

[nyfanofwbb]

Both of them have temperament issues to a greater or lesser extent
that Dawn has not been able to modify
Reminds me a wee bit of UTenn
Dawn's mea culpa the other day with regard getting the kids to listen (or perform to a standard)
is evidence of a certain weakness in her program, not apparent in the best ones.
Even Muffet complained this year (after a poor loss) of a similar issue.

Geno complains as well that kids have changed..and them he changes them back..or whatever magic he performs.

When Wilson (I think, I don't remember) got T'd up for colorful language Dawn did not address the issue. She said in the presser afterwards that she wasn't going to either. Temperament issues need to be nipped in the bud early or you spend your coaching career tape dancing around them. Could be why they are always coming up short in big games (IMO). Imagine one of Geno's players gettting a tech for that, he would lose his mind!

 

[BroadwayVa]

That's just what I was thinking. Conditioning+Athletic Ability, that's where Uconn excels.
That is why they pulled away and padded the lead in the second half.

I;ve posted that as Geno's secret weapon--every year he works hard during summers on conditioning--it's not so secret. Geno has had great success with bigger team due to fast/quick/ conditioned smaller players--which alone is amazing. Geno's lazy comments are directed toward the younger players who find conditioning as work--and not a needed Basketball asset.

 

[CL82]

PLEASE--NO freak!! She uses her parent given talent to an extent never seen--but certainly---she is not in any terms of the meaning of the word--a freak!! She is OUR girl!! She is OUR talent. She is OUR savior in the USC game. She is OUR Gabby!!! No freak!! Please.

Lol, freak is pretty much the ultimate complement. Her athleticism, speed, strength reaction time is super human.

I've used that phrase from time to time on the board and have awaited someone making your post. I get your point but know it is meant with admiration and respect.

 

[Waquoit]

Wilson all but disappeared in the 2nd half.

I think it was her shorts. They were a bit too short.

 

[BroadwayVa]

???????????????

That's great and all but I wasn't talking about SC's conditioning in relation to UCONN's.. call SC out of shape and slow, that's fine, I'm not arguing that. That's another conversation.

But that's not the reason Wilson didn't produce as effectively in the 2nd half.. its because she was double and triple teamed. Wilson is well equipped to play 4 quarters. Her effectiveness decreased because she was being defended differently (and occasionally fouled, but I digress on THAT subject as well).

\

As a dyed in the wool Uconn Fan--I agree with you. Your kids, for the most part, ran with Uconn. Aja was , like Katie Lou, held in check by defense. The University of South Carolina played their best and played hard--Geno and us fans would have it no other way.
USC as Uconn were hampered by bad calls, ticky tack, invisible call---a couple near the end terrible. But we both were hammered by the refs--which to me is fair calling--if a ref can't call a game with talent, then at least call it fairly--they did. 17 uconn fouls 18 USC..

 

[UcMiami]

Oldude - interesting but I don't think it is all that accurate for a few reasons:
1. One of the issues with the big man/woman center is god only makes a few of them every decade it seems, and there are a lot more teams than 'bigs' to go around, so it has always been an issue for most teams to figure out a way to counteract the few teams that have the big guys. Three point shooting certainly helps, and speed and smarts and passing have all been countermeasures. But the Griners and Jabars will always have a place at the table when they come along because they do pose serious issues for the teams that aren't lucky enough to snag one of them. In the pros where true zone defenses are not allowed you can force them outside on defense usually and that creates a problem for them, but in college where defensive three seconds doesn't exist ...

2. Geno certainly didn't create the idea of multifunctional undersized posts, most people attribute it to European basketball imports to the pros. Rebecca, Lauren Jackson, EDD, and Stewart all have exhibited that inside and outside skill, but they have all performed best when paired with a more traditional post player. If Geno had Tina Charles still on hist roster she would being taking a lot of minutes away from Gabby or Napheesa and Geno would be more relaxed about the outcome of the season! Next year and the year after he will be really happy to have BIG options in the lineup. This team is lots of fun to watch and root for and they are playing fabulous basketball, but the NC trophy hasn't been engraved yet!

3. For just a moment, fantasize about what might have been had Wilson chosen UConn! I think she and Geno would have made a pretty good match, and UConn would be even more dominant right now. OK - back to reality, love this team, and what they have done, but Gabby and Napheesa are also pretty unique players, and I wouldn't like to plug two other 6'1/5'11 players into their roles - can't think of another two playing college ball right know that would be getting it done, can you? So ... the formula depends on two unique players, not something that will start a trend!

 

[SCGamecock]

Wilson's body language suggested to me that she was frustrated with her teammates. She needs to just play on.

IAC, she is a fine player. No need to spin anything for anyone..SC just got beat. Most of us knew it would happen in the second half. Make of that what you will.

"SC just got beat"... exactly. I thought the 2nd half adjustment that Geno made on our post players worked marvelously.. sure, conditioning is a part of the game.. but it wasn't as big a part of the game as some here are trying to suggest it was. Some here are comparing Gabby and Napheesa's conditioning to Coates and Wilson.. . that's ridiculous, of course they are in better shape to run the floor.. they are GUARDS.. Wilson and Coates are post players, big ones at that. Maybe they should compare Wilson and Coates to Natalie Butler. Wilson has played longer stretches in far more physical games (Mississippi State for example).. her conditioning was not the reason she faltered in the 2nd half. The bottom line is that she was well defended, and that's kudos to Geno and UConn.

 

[nyfanofwbb]

I;ve posted that as Geno's secret weapon--every year he works hard during summers on conditioning--it's not so secret. Geno has had great success with bigger team due to fast/quick/ conditioned smaller players--which alone is amazing. Geno's lazy comments are directed toward the younger players who find conditioning as work--and not a needed Basketball asset.

Those younger players never know what real conditioning is until they step up to the college level. They got by in HS on what conditioning was offered to them or what they did on their own. Not all take it seriously to do on their own. I would guess they are shell shocked when they hit the gym in college which is probably why he starts in the summer. Women in general lack upper body strength which (IMO) is needed to compete in the post to put that ball back up over and over again. That could take the wind out of one if they aren't is shape.

 

[Waquoit]

Your kids, for the most part, ran with Uconn.

I agree, but that "for the most part" represents the margin of victory; a handful of trips down the floor. There's fit, then there's UConn fit.

 

[magic]

You're entitled to your opinion. I was at the game, sitting relatively close to the South Carolina bench and Wilson's conditioning didn't seem like an issue to ME. But spin this however you want.. Good game last night, good luck the rest of the way.

I agree with you SGGamecock. I think Aja is a vey skilled and athleic player who seems well conditioned. Problem is they do not have great floor balance, nor the overall starting five " talent " the huskies have. But then , noone does. Eventually , it does come down to talent, and how the talented pieces fit togeher. As I stated in pre-ame post. Gamecocks would have to either find way to score more, or stop huskies from scoring. Hack and grab worked for almost a whole half.

 

[SCGamecock]

I agree with you SGGamecock. I think Aja is a vey skilled and athleic player who seems well conditioned. Problem is they do not have great floor balance, nor the overall starting five " talent " the huskies have. But then , noone does. Eventually , it does come down to talent, and how the talented pieces fit togeher. As I stated in pre-ame post. Gamecocks would have to either find way to score more, or stop huskies from scoring. Hack and grab worked for almost a whole half.

I'm blown away by Gabby Williams. It's one thing to see her on TV, but in person.. it's breathtaking. If she's not a 1st or 2nd team All-American then the entire thing is a scam.

 

[oldude]

Oldude - interesting but I don't think it is all that accurate for a few reasons:
1. One of the issues with the big man/woman center is god only makes a few of them every decade it seems, and there are a lot more teams than 'bigs' to go around, so it has always been an issue for most teams to figure out a way to counteract the few teams that have the big guys. Three point shooting certainly helps, and speed and smarts and passing have all been countermeasures. But the Griners and Jabars will always have a place at the table when they come along because they do pose serious issues for the teams that aren't lucky enough to snag one of them. In the pros where true zone defenses are not allowed you can force them outside on defense usually and that creates a problem for them, but in college where defensive three seconds doesn't exist ..

2. Geno certainly didn't create the idea of multifunctional undersized posts, most people attribute it to European basketball imports to the pros. Rebecca, Lauren Jackson, EDD, and Stewart all have exhibited that inside and outside skill, but they have all performed best when paired with a more traditional post player. If Geno had Tina Charles still on hist roster she would being taking a lot of minutes away from Gabby or Napheesa and Geno would be more relaxed about the outcome of the season! Next year and the year after he will be really happy to have BIG options in the lineup. This team is lots of fun to watch and root for and they are playing fabulous basketball, but the NC trophy hasn't been engraved yet!

3. For just a moment, fantasize about what might have been had Wilson chosen UConn! I think she and Geno would have made a pretty good match, and UConn would be even more dominant right now. OK - back to reality, love this team, and what they have done, but Gabby and Napheesa are also pretty unique players, and I wouldn't like to plug two other 6'1/5'11 players into their roles - can't think of another two playing college ball right know that would be getting it done, can you? So .. the formula depends on two unique players, not something that will start a trend!

Agree with most of your points, but would point out that you can play zone in the NBA so long as you don't camp in the lane.

Jabbar is my exhibit A on what has changed in basketball. When he played the Lakers would dump the ball into him over & over again and he would shoot skyhook after skyhook over some hapless defender.

Griner is Exhibit B. She was the most dominant player in WBB for the 4 yrs she played at Baylor and they only won a single national championship.

One final point, and this may be sacrilegious, given the importance Geno places on athletic, multi-skilled BIGS, he might not have recruited Tina Charles out of HS, although she developed tremendously throughout her time at UConn and into the pros.

 

[BroadwayVa]

???????????????

That's great and all but I wasn't talking about SC's conditioning in relation to UCONN's.. call SC out of shape and slow, that's fine, I'm not arguing that. That's another conversation.

But that's not the reason Wilson didn't produce as effectively in the 2nd half.. its because she was double and triple teamed. Wilson is well equipped to play 4 quarters. Her effectiveness decreased because she was being defended differently (and occasionally fouled, but I digress on THAT subject as well).

\

As a dyed in the wool Uconn Fan--I agree with you. Your kids, for the most part, ran with Uconn. Aja was , like Katie Lou, held in check by defense. The University of South Carolina played their best and played hard--Geno and us fans would have it no other way.
USC as Uconn were hampered by bad calls, ticky tack, invisible call---a couple near the end terrible. But we both were hammered by the refs--which to me is fair calling--if a ref can't call a game with talent, then at least call it fairly--they did. 17 uconn fouls 18 USC..

 

[SCGamecock]

I agree with your analysis. While we tend to focus on Wilson & Coates, they were not the real problem for the Gamecocks last night,

Gray, Davis & Harris were a combined 7-28 (25%) from the floor, and an anemic 3-17 from 3. We had heard so much about Gray & Davis in particular that I was truly concerned that they would make the Huskies pay a price when they tried to double-team Wilson & Coates.

With no one to take the pressure off from outside UConn could swarm SC's bigs all night long.

Exactly. I thought our guards would get more shots to drop last night. The funny thing is that they got plenty of open looks but couldn't get barely anything to go through. I think Davis and Gray spent so much energy trying to take KLS out of the equation that it threw them off offensively. If just a few more of their shots had fallen the complexion of last night's game would've been different in my opinion.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Agree with most of your points, but would point out that you can play zone in the NBA so long as you don't camp in the lane.

Jabbar is my exhibit A on what has changed in basketball. When he played the Lakers would dump the ball into him over & over again and he would shoot skyhook after skyhook over some hapless defender.

Griner is Exhibit B. She was the most dominant player in WBB for the 4 yrs she played at Baylor and they only won a single national championship.

One final point, and this may be sacrilegious, given the importance Geno places on athletic, multi-skilled BIGS, he might not have recruited Tina Charles out of HS, although she developed tremendously throughout her time at UConn and into the pros.

Not religion of any kind--that's what Geno does with player who have a modicum of talent--Tina was a work in progress for 2 plus year as were many successful players (Gabby??). Although I though UCLA's lew Alcindor was a great a talent as Kareem!!
In terms of athletic--and not bulky--Lew Alcindor was very effective--and after he took the hook away from Yale's hook expert Tony LaValli he became effective. The Pro's early teams had smaller pretty mobile centers, for the time, today we'd call them slow. Not so Lew
Alcindor --I always how he had the energy to play with 20000 conquests.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Exactly. I thought our guards would get more shots to drop last night. The funny thing is that they got plenty of open looks but couldn't get barely anything to go through. I think Davis and Gray spent so much energy trying to take KLS out of the equation that it threw them off offensively. If just a few more of their shots had fallen the complexion of last night's game would've been different in my opinion.

Interesting comment on Davis and Gray--they had open looks--and drilled some--. But I wondered about the defense on Lou --whether that was a decoy for your team to concentrate on and allow Gabby and Precious to do their things--if that wasn't the plan it worked that way. But uSC used more than 2 players on Katie lou--at times she drew 4 or 5 USC's on her. Their effort was focused on the wrong player--Napheesea has been the most productive scorer for Uconn--true --Katie Lou could go off on a game but lately she has struggled a bit. With Davis and Gray--they didn't lack energy--and they missed few open shots--I think they got what they could. The Defense from Uconn was intense--much more so than i expected.

 

[Longtime fan]

Dawn is missing the experienced PG that can get the ball to the other players in the right position to score. Also Dawn's offense doesn't have a lot of motion in it which would enable A'ja and Coates to get easier shots. Will be interesting to see how Azura Stevens players next year as when she was at Duke she had a similar style of play as A'ja does. Azura does have more range in her shot then A'ja.

They have been saying that for a few years now. However; Dawn got that fine transfer guard from Duke, and she has one of the top freshman guards in the country already starting. So, the guard weakness, I think, is no longer the issue. I think the issue is that there is still too much focus on getting the ball inside to A'ja ( a recruiting promise, maybe?). And don't overlook Connecticut's defense, which is like no other. The guards, good as they now are, simply can't get a comfortable shot.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Her offense last night had a lot of motion, but only in one direction(across the lane). She was trying to foil Geno's switching by getting an unfavorable matchup on Crystal. It never worked.

By the way, where is the person who earlier this season posted about SC having the strongest four-player combo in WCBB? How is that opinion workin' for ya?!

\

The AAC teams pulled Crystal away on defense of the basket by dribble driving with Crystal guarding---Crystal drew negative comments from me on her defense--Dawn found that Geno found a way to minimize Crystals (only) weakness by quickly dropping back to protect the basket from driving guards.
Ok the person who wrote earlier about UConn having the weakest bench and strongest 4 combo players--how's that working out for you??

 

[magic]

I'm blown away by Gabby Williams. It's one thing to see her on TV, but in person.. it's breathtaking. If she's not a 1st or 2nd team All-American then the entire thing is a scam.

I wish I could have been there last night. I had to settle for 70 inch HD. Before this season began , I thought her niche was still 6th player. I am stunned by her athletic ability and never ending " will " to compete for every ball , on every possession. If there are 5 better players in wcbb, I would like to know who they are. By the way, I was impressed in the way Harris handled herself last night. I think she will have a bright future with the gamecocks.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I thought that our girls did a great job of shutting down the dribble penetration by South Carolina guards and forced them into situations that minimized their interior post height advantage....the traditional big can be an incredibly effective scorer for teams that have a guard(s) who can take the ball inside, draw the defense and then find the open big witness the play Crystal Dangerfield made Q4 when finding Nat open alone for the uncontested bunny a second before the 30-second clock expired...South Carolina had some success with that early on but as the game went on their guards seemed more inclined to try to lob the ball into the post players who were already being beaten to their preferred up-close and personal comfort zone before immediately being swarmed on by 2 or 3 UConn defenders...Wilson's Q4 frustration became increasingly evident to all when it was obvious how the game was going to play out...with sincere apologies to Tyasha Harris' split lip, in the immortal words of Mike Tyson, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

The one weakness of UConn Wbb over the past few years has been their inability to stop the effective dribble driving teams.
USC has some success with that --but for the most part Geno was able to mask that weakness with 5 mobile, quick, hard working kids.
In the NCAA's with good athletic teams --Texas has a couple of guards that are good, Miss St, UW---it is good to have this practice prior to theBig Games.

 

[hardcorehusky]

To me the game of basketball changed in the Olympics. European bigs shooting 3's, opening up the lane for dribble drive and spreading the floor. 3 pointers are game changers and even if you get a 20 -20 from a big, you have to have some 3 's to open things up for everyone else.

Last night, I thought slowing the game down worked well for South Carolina, but also took them out of rhythm. Trying to execute at the end of the shot clock for 40 minutes against UCONN is difficult. UCONN kept hurrying things up and in the second half, and to me, it was the mental exhaustion rather than physical that did the Gamecocks in. They had the game in control until the final minute of the 2nd quarter and then the last minute of the 3 rd quarter UCONN jumped further ahead. Mentally draining and frustrating.

 

[SCGamecock]

I wish I could have been there last night. I had to settle for 70 inch HD. Before this season began , I thought her niche was still 6th player. I am stunned by her athletic ability and never ending " will " to compete for every ball , on every possession. If there are 5 better players in wcbb, I would like to know who they are. By the way, I was impressed in the way Harris handled herself last night. I think she will have a bright future with the gamecocks.

I really think she's going to answer all of our questions at point guard for the next three years after this season. She's a true freshmen and handled herself very well in that environment. What I like most about her is that she's a true point guard.. not scoring point guard, etc.. she's a true point guard that has offense and defense, and she'll develop and get better. SC's poise in the first half was all Harris controlling the tempo..

 

[BroadwayVa]

Or she was being triple teamed the entire 2nd half. Great half time adjustment by Geno, it worked.

Dawn knows this---Geno see's what's happening and --when possible--makes that half time adjustment--he could have done that 10 minutes into the game--but Dawn would have seen the correction and corrected her team during half time. Geno always waits for the half --his half time corrections over the years --some are just short of miraculous !!