Geno in Georgia to see DD

[doggydaddy]

The track record of coaches following legends is pretty dismal. And the circumstances of this case are pretty unique. But the bottom line is that PHS has earned the right to go out on her own terms as long as it doesn't hurt the program. (Contrast to Joe Paterno. Setting the Sandusky situation aside, wouldn't PSU have been much better served by a transition year where a new coach, be it O'Brien or whomever, got to take control of the program while still benefiting from the aura of the legend and allowing the legend to take a victory lap through the conference?)

I don't know how you can look at how they appear this year and say it's not hurting the program THIS year. Hanging out at practice, giving advice, running some drills...all sounds good. But if Pat is still there next year with any kind of authority, the new coach will be an afterthought. If Pat still sits on the bench, the camera will focus on her.

Based on how it looks to me (I'm no expert for sure) I can't imagine her staying on helps at all.

 

[JonB]

I don't know how you can look at how they appear this year and say it's not hurting the program THIS year. Hanging out at practice, giving advice, running some drills...all sounds good. But if Pat is still there next year with any kind of authority, the new coach will be an afterthought. If Pat still sits on the bench, the camera will focus on her.

Based on how it looks to me (I'm no expert for sure) I can't imagine her staying on helps at all.

I'm not close to the TN program, so it's not my judgement to make. It is clear that Paterno's hanging on damaged PSU, and if Pat's hanging on has the same effect, you're right, it's a negative. I'm just not sure that would be the case if a clearly identified successor came in for a hand-off year.

 

[Icebear]

I'm not close to the TN program, so it's not my judgement to make. It is clear that Paterno's hanging on damaged PSU, and if Pat's hanging on has the same effect, you're right, it's a negative. I'm just not sure that would be the case if a clearly identified successor came in for a hand-off year.

That is not clear at all. Few in PA would accept that statement. The program had made numerous adjustments to how the program was run since the mid 2000s, including Galen Hall returning to PSU to revamp the offense.

 

[JonB]

That is not clear at all. Few in PA would accept that statement. The program had made numerous adjustments to how the program was run since the mid 2000s, including Galen Hall returning to PSU to revamp the offense.

So, your thesis is that it worked at PSU but can't possibly work at TN?

 

[cabbie191]

Regarding Tennessee's future: 1) I've seen a couple of their games on television and have been saddened to see how quiet Summitt and withdrawn she sometimes appears - I miss her prowling the sidelines, and as someone put it earlier in this thread, the fire in her belly. 2) That being said, what we don't know is what Summitt brings to the table at practice, and when it comes to recruiting. She may be handling these functions quite ably. Reading the Lady Vol board I sense that she is much more engaged than may seem apparent.

Regarding who's the best coach of all time: I know it is a favorite past time of sports fans and commentators to argue these types of things, but good grief, it is after all an unanswerable question! Can't we just come to the conclusion that Pat and Geno have shown they are among the best of the best? - proven not only by their winning percentages and national championships, as well as the utter domination of their respective conferences, but also in the very high graduation rates of their players and the quality of their players as members of their respective communities and as representatives of women's basketball.

 

[easttexastrash]

Regarding Tennessee's future: 1) I've seen a couple of their games on television and have been saddened to see how quiet Summitt and withdrawn she sometimes appears - I miss her prowling the sidelines, and as someone put it earlier in this thread, the fire in her belly. 2) That being said, what we don't know is what Summitt brings to the table at practice, and when it comes to recruiting. She may be handling these functions quite ably. Reading the Lady Vol board I sense that she is much more engaged than may seem apparent.

Regarding who's the best coach of all time: I know it is a favorite past time of sports fans and commentators to argue these types of things, but good grief, it is after all an unanswerable question! Can't we just come to the conclusion that Pat and Geno have shown they are among the best of the best? - proven not only by their winning percentages and national championships, as well as the utter domination of their respective conferences, but also in the very high graduation rates of their players and the quality of their players as members of their respective communities and as representatives of women's basketball.

Well said.

 

[Bestiarius]

Based on how it looks to me (I'm no expert for sure) I can't imagine her staying on helps at all.

It's not like she's a renouned brain surgeon, an airline pilot or a bus driver, where ability to perform one's job would be an important factor. If the TN administration, fans, etc. want to keep her on for whatever reason, that's great, nobody gets hurt except perhaps the players that chose TN without knowing.

 

[doggydaddy]

It's not like she's a renouned brain surgeon, an airline pilot or a bus driver, where ability to perform one's job would be an important factor. If the TN administration, fans, etc. want to keep her on for whatever reason, that's great, nobody gets hurt except perhaps the players that chose TN without knowing.

Hey, whatever they want to do is fine with me. But the discussion was more about how her staying on helps or hurts the new coach.

 

[Icebear]

So, your thesis is that it worked at PSU but can't possibly work at TN?

To the degree that the two situations are vastly different, correct. I see all kinds of signs the Pat is not capable of participating in the type of transition you are speaking of. I have presently in my congregation 9 families dealing with dementia of several different forms. Most have Alzheimer's, two Parkinson's, on old fashioned hardening of the arteries. From what I am seeing Pat's abilities to guide a transition are significantly compromised. One thing JoePA still had was a mind that generally was sharp as a tack. It was his body that failed. Very differnet.

 

[Icebear]

It's not like she's a renouned brain surgeon, an airline pilot or a bus driver, where ability to perform one's job would be an important factor. If the TN administration, fans, etc. want to keep her on for whatever reason, that's great, nobody gets hurt except perhaps the players that chose TN without knowing.

I suggested much earlier in the season that moving/awarding Pat with the status of Coach Emeritus for life would be an excellent choice. That is something that the university needs to choose to do, however, not Pat. I do think, however, that a real coaching search needs to occur and not simply a continuation of the mess and handoff of the program that has not worked this season. Recruits need to know who they will be working with to make a true commitment.

 

[Bestiarius]

Regarding Tennessee's future: 1) I've seen a couple of their games on television and have been saddened to see how quiet Summitt and withdrawn she sometimes appears - I miss her prowling the sidelines, and as someone put it earlier in this thread, the fire in her belly. 2) That being said, what we don't know is what Summitt brings to the table at practice, and when it comes to recruiting. She may be handling these functions quite ably. Reading the Lady Vol board I sense that she is much more engaged than may seem apparent.

Regarding who's the best coach of all time: I know it is a favorite past time of sports fans and commentators to argue these types of things, but good grief, it is after all an unanswerable question! Can't we just come to the conclusion that Pat and Geno have shown they are among the best of the best? - proven not only by their winning percentages and national championships, as well as the utter domination of their respective conferences, but also in the very high graduation rates of their players and the quality of their players as members of their respective communities and as representatives of women's basketball.

No cabbie, we can't conclude that they are equals and move on to the next topic. What fun would there be in that for us? If we did as you suggest, there would be no point in even keeping score. We'd watch them play for 40 minutes, then resume our humdrum existences of which the game would be a part.

Regarding Pat's contribution in practice & recruiting, folks are reading between the lines. Most programs would be ecstatic to have just one All American player on the team. TN has a stable full, yet the program underachieved this year. One recruit recently decommitted. Let's see, what could be causing this??

 

[pap49cba]

Another BY classic. Geno recruiting DD morphs into UT and PHS.

 

[Sonny44]

Even in a diminished role, she still has something to contribute, I think. I'm suggesting a transition year in which an associate HC takes an ever-increasing role under the guidance of PHS.

This has to be an incredibly difficult situation for all concerned, and anything that can be done to ease the transition should be.

Very difficult I'm sure.
But the presence of a fallen, bleeding leader behind the bench has to be a saddening experience for players, fans and all who once knew her as the Queen.
Still has something to offer, sure ok, but not at the bench, behind the bench or even visible from the bench. Just my opinion, what do I know?

 

[doggydaddy]

Another BY classic. Geno recruiting DD morphs into UT and PHS.

And the first poster to mention Tennessesee in this thread was a Baylor fan. And the same with the second mention of Tennessee.

 

[Sonny44]

Another BY classic. Geno recruiting DD morphs into UT and PHS.

We're incredibly versatile aren't we?

 

[Bestiarius]

I suggested much earlier in the season that moving/awarding Pat with the status of Coach Emeritus for life would be an excellent choice. That is something that the university needs to choose to do, however, not Pat. I do think, however, that a real coaching search needs to occur and not simply a continuation of the mess and handoff of the program that has not worked this season. Recruits need to know who they will be working with to make a true commitment.

I think UT is caught in a political correctness catch 22 situation. They have too many constituencies to cater to. Pity the poor average coach that becomes ill (don't let the door hit you...).

 

[doggydaddy]

I think UT is caught in a political correctness catch 22 situation. They have too many constituencies to cater to. Pity the poor average coach that becomes ill (don't let the door hit you...).

There new AD is in a pickle. He recently hired a new soccer coach, replacing a female coach with male coach. And that male coach hired only male assistants. I've read complaints about that on Tennessee message boards. Not sure if this is the consensus of the general fan base.

Now, he has a legendary coach with a terrible disease. A coach that is clearly not what she was. They lost a top recruit because of the uncertanty and he can't ignore the impact to recruiting. And a legend that doesn't appear to be willing to go softly into the night and step down.

At some point he will have to make a decision if he thinks the direction they are going is not the right one. I just can't see how this isn't her last hurrah.

 

[cabbie191]

No cabbie, we can't conclude that they are equals and move on to the next topic. What fun would there be in that for us? If we did as you suggest, there would be no point in even keeping score. We'd watch them play for 40 minutes, then resume our humdrum existences of which the game would be a part.

Regarding Pat's contribution in practice & recruiting, folks are reading between the lines. Most programs would be ecstatic to have just one All American player on the team. TN has a stable full, yet the program underachieved this year. One recruit recently decommitted. Let's see, what could be causing this??

I understand your point but to clarify, I'm not suggesting that they are equal. I just don't think it is possible to objectively say one is better than the other because there are so many facets to their position, including things away from the court, that how do you determine the basis for the comparison? Not to mention that their coaching careers span different areas, the facilities they have available to help recruit athletes aren't the same, etc. So, I prefer to say that they are among the great of their sport and leave it at that. Nevertheless, arguing this stuff back and forth is great fun for many people.

As to Pat's contributions, many feel that the team has underperformed for the last 3 years. Perhaps there was something happening to her as far back as then but her demeanor on the court seemed to me to be pretty consistent up until the current season. But I would agree that her diagnosis and the uncertainty of where UT is going to go with this program doesn't bode well in the short term for their continued recruiting strength.

Someone mentioned that UT has a new athletic director. If I'm not mistaken, further complicating the situation is that up until recently, I believe the school had a separate director for women's athletics.