Geno and UConn and NIL | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Geno and UConn and NIL

As a taxpayer funded and maintained institution UCONN there needs to be open and transparent visibility relative to the sources of collective money and how and where it is distributed.
Yes. True for all publicly funded institutions. And unfortunately that will never ever ever happen.
There is no taxpayer money in the collective and UConn doesn’t manage the it, booster Mark D’Amelio does. There is a lot of info at the link below

 
There is no taxpayer money in the collective and UConn doesn’t manage the it, booster Mark D’Amelio does. There is a lot of info at the link below

The lack of transparency however as indicated by the authors of the nil report on a separate thread remains a troubling issue. The institution benefits directly from the work of these third party collectives and as indicated Connecticut was one of the states that passed legislation that attempts to block transparency and reporting of these sons of money.
 
And I think UConn will only remain where they are in the pecking order (especially for women's basketball) until Geno and Chris retire. It will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to maintain the program status once the builders are gone.
Ozimoto, while I agree that UConn will remain where they are in the pecking order while Geno and CD are still leading the way, I am no longer inclined to think that the program will hit a down turn once they retire. Rather, I think this year's championship cemented the notion that it is not so much about Geno, as it is about the program culture that he and CD built.

I will go one step further. I think it is quite probable that the way that $$ are being offered for 1-2 years of hired talent, that most of the other WCBB quality programs will continue to fall short in consistently bringing together Final Four contenders. There are some that will - South Carolina, Iowa, Duke and possibly Texas - because these schools, like UConn, focus on a building a "team first" chemistry. But the majority of the other top programs - i.e., the ones trying to buy an All-American squad, will have to be content with Sweet Sixteen appearances, vying for Elite Eight, and an occasional Final Four. Meanwhile, UConn, S Carolina, Iowa, Duke, and Texas will continue to attract top HS and international freshman talent, and deliberately mold them into high performing teams that will be FF competitive every year.

At least until the other programs come to the realization you can't buy National Championships. You have to build and develop them.

Armed with this thought, I think it is quite plausible that the other UConn coaches can continue with the same similar "team first" concept which they have been exposed to and inculcated by Geno and CD over the past few decades. The exceptional culture is there, the successful history is there, the superb assistant coaching is there (as evidenced by the game scouts), the devoted fan base (sell-out crowds and frenetic student body) is there, and top programs' interest in competing against the UConn mystique will still be there.

If just one of the current assistant coaches has learned how to identify HS and international talent to fit the program culture the way Geno has, then I think UConn WBB will continue to sustain greatness. In light of the current environment of throwing bags of $$ to individual players in order to attain immediate results, I am more than very optimistic about the future post-Geno environment. I am confident.
 
N I L is a monster created by NCAA. Has yet to be tamed.
It's not. It's an unintended consequence, however, of the NCAA and universities' insistence that revenue-generating athletes aren't also employees entitled to a cut. NIL is a byproduct of a Supreme Court case that allowed athletes to profit over use of their image. It's still side-stepping the original problem and claim by some athletes: that they deserve to be treated like revenue-generating workers (versus now, pitchpeople for products or products with their images on them.)
 
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I believe Geno is targeting international players cause he doesn't have to pay them NIL.
NIL has ruined the game in my opinion. So has the "transfer portal".....This goes for all college sports and especially football....

They are not really "amateurs" anymore when they are getting paid to play.....I just read somewhere where that Arch Manning of Texas (who was a backup QB for his first two years) is the highest paid NIL athlete at $6.5 million....

They are not "student athletes" anymore as far as I am concerned either. They are basically pro's now....

I am with Geno on this...It's a shame that money has ruined college athletics.... If someone argues that these athletes make the schools a ton of money, I would counter with the free tuition should be good enough.

A four year tuition at Uconn for out of staters is about $253, 656...

As a graduate from of Uconn myself, I don't remember anyone paying my way...

Just my opinions on this matter..
 
I wonder if that's why I never see Paige in local ad campaigns, but I do see the rest of the team all the time. There's a couple of billboards on 95 in Bridgeport with KK and Ashlynn.
I wonder if it may have more to do with avoiding dilution of brand?
 
A four year tuition at Uconn for out of staters is about $253, 656...
In this context, that’s just an accounting fiction. A body in a seat in a classroom is the only reality here. The scholarship doesn’t cost the university any more if it’s an out-of-state student-athlete. It’s only money the school pays to itself. It’s real cost is the minimum the university is willing to charge any student to sit in that seat.
 
In this context, that’s just an accounting fiction. A body in a seat in a classroom is the only reality here. The scholarship doesn’t cost the university any more if it’s an out-of-state student-athlete. It’s only money the school pays to itself. It’s real cost is the minimum the university is willing to charge any student to sit in that seat.
My point is that if you are an out of state student going to Uconn for 4 years that would be the estimated costs for tuition/room/board....

I believe every single Uconn player is from out of state..

My other point regarding the free tuition (ie: a full ride scholarship) is that it should be all they get because that is more than enough.

No college player ever deserves to be paid millions and no college player should be allowed to become basically free agents at the end of the year and go to the highest bidder....

Call me old fashion but that is how I feel. I guarantee that Geno feels the same way but has Zero control over the situation.

This is one of the reasons Nick Saben retired too.
 
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I don't think it works to conflate regular scholarships with athletic ones, at least as far as the revenue-generating sports. My daughters went to private universities at almost no cost, simply due to academic achievements and qualifications. However, they earned nothing for the school while they were there. In actual fact, students cost a university money. Outside of major sports and medical research, departments lose money for a college. The hope is that the college generates superb citizens (and earners) who then return the favor by donating large sums of money. The athletes in the major sports start earning money for the institution from day one, and as is the case at UConn, by elevating the prestige of the university, allowing them to be more selective in their admissions (and fewer need based scholarships awarded.) The closest parallel would be the teaching graduate assistants, who get paid very little for teaching a course curriculum that the "star academic" designed. It's pretty common for graduate students to pick a program based on the fame of the professor in order to hopefully advance their own careers.
 
My point is that if you are an out of state student going to Uconn for 4 years that would be the estimated costs for tuition/room/board....

I believe every single Uconn player is from out of state..

My other point regarding the free tuition (ie: a full ride scholarship) is that it should be all they get because that is more than enough.

No college player ever deserves to be paid millions and no college player should be allowed to become basically free agents at the end of the year and go to the highest bidder....

Call me old fashion but that is how I feel. I guarantee that Geno feels the same way but has Zero control over the situation.

This is one of the reasons Nick Saben retired too.
I have to pinch myself to ensure that I'm still in the here and now. It's easy to forget that these millionaires are kids who recently turned 18. I don't want to see kids get taken advantage of, but this is nuts. Talk about the pendulum swinging in the other direction...
 
I believe Geno is targeting international players cause he doesn't have to pay them NIL.
This has been a common talking point recently, but it doesn't make sense in my opinion. Geno focuses on the best available players, regardless of country. Doubt that will ever change.

The other challenge with international players, especially overseas, is that NIL may not be enough to entice a player to come to the US. The pathway to be a pro for top talent is available in various leagues and they can become eligible for the draft sooner. Not to mention the cultural differences as living in North America is very different.
 
Ozimoto, while I agree that UConn will remain where they are in the pecking order while Geno and CD are still leading the way, I am no longer inclined to think that the program will hit a down turn once they retire. Rather, I think this year's championship cemented the notion that it is not so much about Geno, as it is about the program culture that he and CD built.

I will go one step further. I think it is quite probable that the way that $$ are being offered for 1-2 years of hired talent, that most of the other WCBB quality programs will continue to fall short in consistently bringing together Final Four contenders. There are some that will - South Carolina, Iowa, Duke and possibly Texas - because these schools, like UConn, focus on a building a "team first" chemistry. But the majority of the other top programs - i.e., the ones trying to buy an All-American squad, will have to be content with Sweet Sixteen appearances, vying for Elite Eight, and an occasional Final Four. Meanwhile, UConn, S Carolina, Iowa, Duke, and Texas will continue to attract top HS and international freshman talent, and deliberately mold them into high performing teams that will be FF competitive every year.

At least until the other programs come to the realization you can't buy National Championships. You have to build and develop them.

Armed with this thought, I think it is quite plausible that the other UConn coaches can continue with the same similar "team first" concept which they have been exposed to and inculcated by Geno and CD over the past few decades. The exceptional culture is there, the successful history is there, the superb assistant coaching is there (as evidenced by the game scouts), the devoted fan base (sell-out crowds and frenetic student body) is there, and top programs' interest in competing against the UConn mystique will still be there.

If just one of the current assistant coaches has learned how to identify HS and international talent to fit the program culture the way Geno has, then I think UConn WBB will continue to sustain greatness. In light of the current environment of throwing bags of $$ to individual players in order to attain immediate results, I am more than very optimistic about the future post-Geno environment. I am confident.
History says you are wrong. I agree with history, Geno, CD recruit when that stops things change. It may be a shortchange or it may not be so short, but it will be there. It does not matter one bit who the new coach will be. Think about this if you ignore all else. Which coach is the goat of WCBB? Where does the goat coach? OK, so if Geno is the goat and he coaches at UConn when the goat retires will the program be the same? If you are honest, no matter how many ideas, theories, or suppositions you have common sense tells us that things will be different. Will any new coach be the goat? Sorry that ship will have sailed, and whoever comes in will not be Geno, CD or the rest of his staff. I am confident that while we may still be a top team, we will not match the teams of the Geno era, with 12 Nattys and counting.
 
History says you are wrong. I agree with history, Geno, CD recruit when that stops things change. It may be a shortchange or it may not be so short, but it will be there. It does not matter one bit who the new coach will be. Think about this if you ignore all else. Which coach is the goat of WCBB? Where does the goat coach? OK, so if Geno is the goat and he coaches at UConn when the goat retires will the program be the same? If you are honest, no matter how many ideas, theories, or suppositions you have common sense tells us that things will be different. Will any new coach be the goat? Sorry that ship will have sailed, and whoever comes in will not be Geno, CD or the rest of his staff. I am confident that while we may still be a top team, we will not match the teams of the Geno era, with 12 Nattys and counting.
MooseJaw, I appreciate your post and your opinion. Don't take this response as me disagreeing with you disagreeing with me, but rather as me elaborating on my contentions. FWIW, I agree with you (and history) that there will be a change after Geno and CD eventually move on. Nor am I suggesting that Geno/CD are not the best of all-time, or that their level of achievements will ever be approached. They are the GOATs for sure.

I am posturing, however, that the change will likely not be as drastic or as cataclysmic as some might think (or as some UConn opponents might hope). I believe Geno/CD have set the program up for continued very high-level success - i.e., competing annually for Final Fours and NCs. My contention is based on the culture that they have established - one that recent recruits and their families have bought into, and one that has been validated by this year's championship. Player development and team chemistry are both required to sustain greatness. Top talent is not enough.

Thanks to Geno/CD, the ingredients are in place to sustain greatness. The only question is whether the next head coach continues with the same modis operandi, or tries to institute a new way of doing things.

My second posture (which is in-line with the topic of this thread) is that the current NIL/transfer portal environment will underscore the legitimacy of Geno/CD's approach, as contrasted against many top-25 programs who will opt for the path of throwing bags of $$ at 1-2 year mercenaries.

No doubt player agents will disagree with my second posture (as will some parents), as they try to sell the notion that a WCBB program can buy All-American talent every year and quickly mold it into a NC team. However, there is no evidence of that being reality. The only recent program that quickly assembled a team that won a national championship - LSU three years ago (in Mulkey's second year) - hasn't been able to get back to the FF since, despite heavy recruitment via the portal. On the contrary, UConn, South Carolina, and Iowa have made it to multiple Final Fours over the same period with minimal portal recruitment.

Once schools and athletic directors see for themselves the evidence that money can't buy instant championships, the selling point from player agents and chase-the-money parents will shift to "money can buy your WCBB program legitimacy in conference". Basically the same salesmanship/rationale ADs grasp at for hiring new head coaches, but with a much shorter time frame to deliver.

Recent evidence suggests the transfer portal success can elevate a school's position in their conference (re: USC, UCLA, TCU, Kentucky), which is probably the objective of most ADs and a concern for most head coaches. However, that mindset is not a concern for UConn who can focus on pinpointing the right player to fit inside a team culture and chemistry aimed at Final Fours and National Championships.
 
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MooseJaw, I appreciate your post and your opinion. Don't take this response as me disagreeing with you disagreeing with me, but rather as me elaborating on my contentions. FWIW, I agree with you (and history) that there will be a change after Geno and CD eventually move on. Nor am I suggesting that Geno/CD are not the best of all-time, or that their level of achievements will ever be approached. They are the GOATs for sure.

I am posturing, however, that the change will likely not be as drastic or as cataclysmic as some might think (or as some UConn opponents might hope). I believe Geno/CD have set the program up for continued very high-level success - i.e., competing annually for Final Fours and NCs. My contention is based on the culture that they have established - one that recent recruits and their families have bought into, and one that has been validated by this year's championship. Player development and team chemistry are both required to sustain greatness. Top talent is not enough.

Thanks to Geno/CD, the ingredients are in place to sustain greatness. The only question is whether the next head coach continues with the same modis operandi, or tries to institute a new way of doing things.

My second posture (which is in-line with the topic of this thread) is that the current NIL/transfer portal environment will underscore the legitimacy of Geno/CD's approach, as contrasted against many top-25 programs who will opt for the path of throwing bags of $$ at 1-2 year mercenaries.

No doubt player agents will disagree with my second posture (as will some parents), as they try to sell the notion that a WCBB program can buy All-American talent every year and quickly mold it into a NC team. However, there is no evidence of that being reality. The only recent program that quickly assembled a team that won a national championship - LSU three years ago (in Mulkey's second year) - hasn't been able to get back to the FF since, despite heavy recruitment via the portal. On the contrary, UConn, South Carolina, and Iowa have made it to multiple Final Fours over the same period with minimal portal recruitment.

Once schools and athletic directors see for themselves the evidence that money can't buy instant championships, the selling point from player agents and chase-the-money parents will shift to "money can buy your WCBB program legitimacy in conference". Basically the same salesmanship/rationale ADs grasp at for hiring new head coaches, but with a much shorter time frame to deliver.

Recent evidence suggests the transfer portal success can elevate a school's position in their conference (re: USC, UCLA, TCU, Kentucky), which is probably the objective of most ADs and a concern for most head coaches. However, that mindset is not a concern for UConn who can focus on pinpointing the right player to fit inside a team culture and chemistry aimed at Final Fours and National Championships.
All said and done, I hope you are right, just understand I won't be betting the mortgage money on it. I just look at the sure thing dynasties in BB. Men's UCLA, women's Tenn. any other you wish. No team has ever continued to be the top dog after a legend has retired, ever.
We are still at the top, the longest run in BB ever, men's or women's. If we find the right coach, we can remain an excellent team. It isn't realistic to expect any hire to match what the Geno years brought us. No coach in history has come close to doing what Geno and staff have accomplished. Right now, there is one coach above all others that I would trust in enough to hand the team to. Shea.
 
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First of all, while the term "student athlete" is sort of by the board I believe it will still apply to schools like Uconn. There will always be recruits who will want the comfort of being able to form relationships with players other than on the court. And the great players crave that discipline that will enable them to reach their full potential.
 
N I L is a monster created by NCAA. Has yet to be tamed.
This "monster" is about to get worse....The NCAA committee just passed new rules on Monday which allows the Universities to pay "student athletes" directly...

After decades of forbidding this practice. They are just waiting on a federal judge to approve everything later this month.

People can Google the story on their own. (I don't want to post links here)
 
All said and done, I hope you are right, just understand I won't be betting the mortgage money on it. I just look at the sure thing dynasties in BB. Men's UCLA, women's Tenn. any other you wish. No team has ever continued to be the top dog after a legend has retired, ever.
We are still at the top, the longest run in BB ever, men's or women's. If we find the right coach, we can remain an excellent team. It isn't realistic to expect any hire to match what the Geno years brought us. No coach in history has come close to doing what Geno and staff have accomplished. Right now, there is one coach above all others that I would trust in enough to hand the team to. Shea.
Or Carla. After Geno and CD leave will it be the same? Absolutely not, but the UConn brand will still be the UConn brand. UCLA is still UCLA and Tenn is still Tenn. What will be interesting is the next coach's approach to the portal. Will the new coach be very selective with the portal like Geno or go nuts as some programs have? I feel abandoning 4 year player development would hurt the UConn brand. I don't think Carla or Shea would do that.
 
Or Carla. After Geno and CD leave will it be the same? Absolutely not, but the UConn brand will still be the UConn brand. UCLA is still UCLA and Tenn is still Tenn. What will be interesting is the next coach's approach to the portal. Will the new coach be very selective with the portal like Geno or go nuts as some programs have? I feel abandoning 4 year player development would hurt the UConn brand. I don't think Carla or Shea would do that.
I’m not sure “Tenn is still Tenn.” Caldwell seems to be well on the way to making Tenn a formidable program again. But there doesn’t seem to be a lot of continuity with the program Pat built. Choosing successors from the coaching tree seems not to have worked for Tenn and a break began to look attractive.

I’m with you and would like to see someone like Shea or Carla have a shot at extending the dynasty, if they want it. We’re both believers in the creed of 4 year player development, as are most folks here. But I’m not at all confident that a simple hand-off will be enough to achieve the sort of continuity we all long for. I suspect there will be some stretch of wandering in the desert, so to speak, before the torch can be relit. The real question is whether we, the fans, will be patient enough to let that process play out. Maybe this last dry spell willl teach us all patience.
 
No. It was NOT created by the NCAA. It was forced down the throat of the NCAA by the courts,
That's very true. The transfer portal however was from the NCAA, no doubt created due to the fact that there was so much criticism and litigation over the old "hardship" rules that were so unevenly applied by them. I think there is a great deal of misunderstanding by BYers and the public about how this all came about, the rules, what is happening now, the effects on college and high school sports and all the unintended consequences of the current system and policies. 14 teams from the SEC in the men's NCAA Tournament this year. You don't need a roadmap to see the future here if something isn't done on a federal level.
 
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14 teams from the SEC in the men's NCAA Tournament this year. You don't need a roadmap to see the future here if something isn't done on a federal level.
You’re probably not wrong overall. But I really can’t see why this is a matter of federal concern, unless of course there’s some fraud or other crime being committed. Otherwise, I would not want my congressman paying any attention to it, no matter how much it threatens to change college athletics. I certainly wouldn’t want them to get talked into carving out some sort of exemption for the NCAA or any related organization.
 
… and the current Wild West system will continue and get worse.
I think I understand what you’re getting at, and what strikes me about it is a presupposition that some sort of regulation is necessary. As long as that’s true, then it should become a federal case, merely because it’s an interstate commerce problem.

But is there really a problem with “the current Wild West system”? Or better, what exactly is wrong with it? Kids are playing sports in college. And they’re going to classes. And most of them are graduating with degrees and going on to productive lives. Sure, NIL and the Portal are undermining our pleasure in watching them play, and the sort of basketball we’d like to see more of is threatened. But this does not appear to be something our government needs to respond to, and perhaps should not pay any attention to.
 
I’m not sure “Tenn is still Tenn.” Caldwell seems to be well on the way to making Tenn a formidable program again. But there doesn’t seem to be a lot of continuity with the program Pat built. Choosing successors from the coaching tree seems not to have worked for Tenn and a break began to look attractive.

I’m with you and would like to see someone like Shea or Carla have a shot at extending the dynasty, if they want it. We’re both believers in the creed of 4 year player development, as are most folks here. But I’m not at all confident that a simple hand-off will be enough to achieve the sort of continuity we all long for. I suspect there will be some stretch of wandering in the desert, so to speak, before the torch can be relit. The real question is whether we, the fans, will be patient enough to let that process play out. Maybe this last dry spell willl teach us all patience.
Hmm, you could be right. After all who did they beat this year? Oh wait, they beat UConn.
 
I think I understand what you’re getting at, and what strikes me about it is a presupposition that some sort of regulation is necessary. As long as that’s true, then it should become a federal case, merely because it’s an interstate commerce problem.

But is there really a problem with “the current Wild West system”? Or better, what exactly is wrong with it? Kids are playing sports in college. And they’re going to classes. And most of them are graduating with degrees and going on to productive lives. Sure, NIL and the Portal are undermining our pleasure in watching them play, and the sort of basketball we’d like to see more of is threatened. But this does not appear to be something our government needs to respond to, and perhaps should not pay any attention to.
It's a really interesting and important subject we are discussing. I think the request for change, barring some scandal, will come from the colleges themselves. I see the mid majors and lower tier teams, even in a conference like the Big East, being unable to compete for quality players and not holding onto them after they develop. It's happened already to the men's team at Seton Hall for example and at Providence. No contracts so no deterrent or penalty for jumping ship for a better deal after a year in which the player was paid, was developed, and received a free education. There has to be a balance to the system and there isn't now. Also, the current graduation rate in the SEC for football, perhaps the highest NIL money sport, is 56% so I don't see a strong educational impact there. One thing it has done however is make it more lucrative to stay in school and get paid so that is probably why the overall student athlete graduation rate is at 91%. That latter stat includes women which is self explanatory.
 
It's a really interesting and important subject we are discussing. I think the request for change, barring some scandal, will come from the colleges themselves. I see the mid majors and lower tier teams, even in a conference like the Big East, being unable to compete for quality players and not holding onto them after they develop. It's happened already to the men's team at Seton Hall for example and at Providence. No contracts so no deterrent or penalty for jumping ship for a better deal after a year in which the player was paid, was developed, and received a free education. There has to be a balance to the system and there isn't now. Also, the current graduation rate in the SEC for football, perhaps the highest NIL money sport, is 56% so I don't see a strong educational impact there. One thing it has done however is make it more lucrative to stay in school and get paid so that is probably why the overall student athlete graduation rate is at 91%. That latter stat includes women which is self explanatory.
I’m not sure where the 91% comes from, but it’s worth pointing out that for many years the college graduation rate for student-athletes has exceeded the graduation rate for non-athletes. In the most recent study it’s 70% vs 67% respectively.

The higher graduation rate for student-athletes is generally attributed to having a more structured schedule, the requirement to meet NCAA academic standards on eligibility and the fact that athletes more readily integrate into the college community through their association with a team.
 
No contracts so no deterrent or penalty for jumping ship for a better deal after a year in which the player was paid, was developed, and received a free education.
I appreciate your analysis. And I know it feels like there’s an injustice of some sort here that needs to be addressed. It’s just that I don’t see universities as entities that can suffer an injustice. Neither are fans like us. I say this as both a fan and a university professor. I’m deeply tied to both perspectives. If anyone should feel aggrieved over what NIL and the Portal seems to be doing to my favorite sport, it’s me.

As far as I can see, the only group here that can suffer an injustice is the student-athletes, and they have suffered over the years quite a bit. The current “Wild West” appears not to do an injustice to them and may even benefit them greatly. I’m sad and frustrated to see the impact on WCBB, but I am also alert to the possibility that the system I’ve enjoyed watching for so many years is of dubious ethical standing. This unsettling thought won’t stop me from watching next season and every subsequent one.
 
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