Future of the XL Center as a Home Site

[Storrs South]

You’re in the city right? How many home games do you make it to? Complaining about the difference in getting to Storrs over Hartford from somewhere like Fairfield is such a joke when we have die hards who travel much further to make it to games.

I think you mistook my comment. I've been to 3 games in Hartford this year and 4 or 5 in Gampel this season and I'm coming from NYC.

I don't want to go through my entire opinion of the topic but I do see value in both venues. However if politicians in CT think UConn must always be in Hartford regardless of terms that's where I find it ridiculous.

The terms from a monetary, scheduling prioritization, and quality of building need to be completely overhauled for UConn to consider Hartford going forward.

 

[husky429]

This is precisely why in many countries, there's differential tuition. At U. Toronto, you pay a lot less for a liberal arts degree than you do an engineering degree. The charge almost doubles.

Always thought this is the way it should be.

 

[krinklecut]

I think you mistook my comment. I've been to 3 games in Hartford this year and 4 or 5 in Gampel this season and I'm coming from NYC.

I don't want to go through my entire opinion of the topic but I do see value in both venues. However if politicians in CT think UConn must always be in Hartford regardless of terms that's where I find it ridiculous.

The terms from a monetary, scheduling prioritization, and quality of building need to be completely overhauled for UConn to consider Hartford going forward.

Oh no, I wasn’t trying to comment on anything you said or misconstrue, just replied to that post since it was your most recent one.

If you can make the trip to Storrs from the city, people can make it from in state.

 

[uconnfan68]

$4M cut is not nothing. Entire departments exist on less than that.

Now try $360 million over the next 2 years. Are we closing UConn?

 

[CL82]

The agreement in vacuum is less favorable to UConn if you view it as an independent entity from the state, but viewing through the lense of a political arrangement it becomes a lot more mutually beneficial

But none of those benefits are contingent upon UConn losing money every time it plays at the XL Center, right? If the state wants to use its funds to spur the economy for Hartford, it certainly can do that. It doesn’t need to do use UConn as a conduit.

 

[CL82]

Capacities were 18,000, 20,000, 20,738. Different terms for each venue on rev share for suites, concessions, and parking.

So all were larger venues and one offs, rather than a yearly lease. For all of them, the lessee got some varying percentage of suites, concessions, and parking for their $40,000. Not really an apples to apples comparison to the UConn’s lease at the XL Center but still good information.

 

[CL82]

The only sensible way forward for UConn is to start planning for the replacement for Gampel.

I don’t know that we need to replace Gampel. I think it is about “right sized” for us. I suspect that the proposed concourse project would allow for some addition to seats, as well as upgrading concessions and bathrooms. That would seem to be all we need in the near term.

 

[Kolumbo]

The biggest issue is that these small city civic centers never make money. New, old - doesn’t matter, they all lose cash.

So the state can’t afford the $700M to build a new one and it would not be able to afford operating a new one or even the old one. (Eventually, they will slap a bandaid on the old one and call it grand.)

The only sensible way forward for UConn is to start planning for the replacement for Gampel.

I was going under the assumption that UConn Basketball will be played in Hartford no matter what which does have its benefits. I agree the best and most sensible solution is a new arena on campus.

 

[drayenob]

She's in charge of $1.7bn. Not the $3.3bn budget.

The $160m cut is to the enterprise that has a $1.7bn budget. This is almost a 10% budget cut. I can't even begin to describe for you how catastrophic this is, since very little of that budget is fungible. This would devastate UConn.

As for the $3.3bn, there's an additional $160m being cut from the other side which she isn't responsible for.

By any measure, the state of Connecticut is nowhere near a good partner for the university. It's bottom of the barrel lowest quintile in support. You're quickly entering Pennsylvania territory as you drop below 20% in state subsidy,

Your comment took me by surprise. I went looking for data and found this which suggests that CT provides one of the highest subsidies per student:

State Support for Higher Education per Full-Time Equivalent Student | National Science Foundation - State Indicators

Public universities rely on state support for a substantial share of their operating revenues, most of which support their education function.

ncses.nsf.gov

I'm sure its more complicated than this. How do you arrive at the bottom quintile?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Since when is 10% a rounding error?

The vast majority of the $$ in that budget is already allocated. A 160M cut is not a rounding error.

The rounding error comment is directed at the $4M it costs UConn to play basketball at the civic center and football at the rent. That again, is only the expense and doesn't provide any revenue numbers like tickets and seat donations.

But none of those benefits are contingent upon UConn losing money every time it plays at the XL Center, right? If the state wants to use its funds to spur the economy for Hartford, it certainly can do that. It doesn’t need to do use UConn as a conduit.

Again you keep saying that UConn loses money playing at the civic center but fail to account for seat donations. That's a massive omission.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I don't have much to say other than to re-emphasize that this is correct. Liberal arts departments have super low expenses compared to other departments.

Lab costs and facilities are pretty small.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I don’t know that we need to replace Gampel. I think it is about “right sized” for us. I suspect that the proposed concourse project would allow for some addition to seats, as well as upgrading concessions and bathrooms. That would seem to be all we need in the near term.

If, and only if, UConn stopped playing any games at XL, then Gampel needs expanding.

 

[CL82]

Again you keep saying that UConn loses money playing at the civic center but fail to account for seat donations. That's a massive omission.

But there are seat donations for Gampel as well, right? Again, if you have those specific numbers post a link to them. If not, it’s just speculation.

 

[Hunt for 7]

This has been going on since Gampel opened. They should of made it bigger then but they wanted a cozy on campus facility and the we became a consistent national power. I thought they already expanded Gampel once not an architect but there will be limits to how much bigger you could make it where it becomes more efficient to build a new building. There is no good answer to this. The state and university got on the road with the two venues and now there is no off ramp. There will be political concessions on both sides and there will be slight upgrades to XL and the it will go away. Of course there is always the chance the roof at XL collapse again and that would change everything.

 

[Fishy]

I don’t know that we need to replace Gampel. I think it is about “right sized” for us. I suspect that the proposed concourse project would allow for some addition to seats, as well as upgrading concessions and bathrooms. That would seem to be all we need in the near term.

It’s 10,000 seats. We sold 15,000 the other night.

The concourse project is DOA.

Lord, you people and your “near term” bandaids.

How many of them need to fail before the lightbulb goes off?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

But there are seat donations for Gampel as well, right? Again, if you have those specific numbers post a link to them. If not, it’s just speculation.

I'm bringing seat donations into the discussion as a relevant piece of information but not drawing any definitive conclusions based off of it.

You have claimed they lose money on the games played in Hartford multiple times in this thread by passing that off as a fact, when by your own admission have said you didn't take into account seat donations.

If anyone has those numbers it would be UConn, right? UConn is trying to make a compelling case as to why they shouldn't play in Hartford and the only numbers the President cites are expenses. You would think it would make their case more definitively compelling could they state we're a net money loser. But they don't, which leads me to believe it's break even at worse and most likely a net positive.

 

[August_West]

Horrible idea. Alienating half the fan base and capping the number of people who can go to games is not going to work out.

Great idea, we are not Hartford’s economic nursemaid

 

[CL82]

It’s 10,000 seats. We sold 15,000 the other night.

The concourse project is DOA.

Yeah, but we aren’t selling 15,000 every night. 12,500, which, if I recall correctly, was the original goal for Gampel before the legislature downsized it to protect the Hartford Civic Center, and the New Haven Coliseum. It’s probably about right. I don’t know that an additional 2500 seats justifies building a new arena.

What killed the concourse project? Is that a fact or speculation? That seemed like such a sensible and cost effective way to add seats and upgrade facilities to improve the fan experience at Gampel.

 

[CL82]

I'm bringing seat donations into the discussion as a relevant piece of information but not drawing any definitive conclusions based off of it.

You have claimed they lose money on the games played in Hartford multiple times in this thread by passing that off as a fact, when by your own admission have said you didn't take into account seat donations.

If anyone has those numbers it would be UConn, right? UConn is trying to make a compelling case as to why they shouldn't play in Hartford and the only numbers the President cites are expenses. You would think it would make their case more definitively compelling could they state we're a net money loser. But they don't, which leads me to believe it's break even at worse and most likely a net positive.

You’re bringing up a number that you have zero idea of its impact. That’s the point. I could speculate that more games at Gampel would create more alumni donations to the University because they’re on campus. It’s an easy enough thing to do, but without any data, it’s meaningless.

None of that changes the fact that unless games at the XL Center are sold out, the school loses money versus playing at Gampel on a per game basis.

 

[Fishy]

Yeah, but we aren’t selling 15,000 every night. 12,500, which, if I recall correctly, was the original goal for Gampel before the legislature downsized it to protect the Hartford, Civic Center, and the New Haven Coliseum, it’s probably about right. I don’t know that an additional 2500 seats justifies building a new arena.

What killed the concourse project? That seemed like such a sensible and cost effective way to add seats and upgrade facilities to improve the fan experience at Gampel.

It’s a 33 year old building that isn’t particularly nice or comfortable. And it was not about adding seats, so while common sense should have killed it, a broke-ass state of Connecticut killed it. (It was never actually on the schedule. It was a color-pencil sketch on a plan ten years ago.)

XL is not going to get better - it will simply get worse raster or slower, depending on what they do. Gampel is not going to get better - it’s just getting older.

We need a modern 12,500-15,000 seat facility. We can pretend we don’t, but do not be surprised when “game day” atmosphere kneecaps us again when realignment comes around again. Eventually, you all will figure it out.

 

[Fishy]

I was going under the assumption that UConn Basketball will be played in Hartford no matter what which does have its benefits. I agree the best and most sensible solution is a new arena on campus.

XL is in a death spiral. It’s truly no one’s fault - it’s just that the economic realities of that type of facility do not support major investment in it.

Think about it - anyone who went to concerts at HCC back in the day….check out the concerts that are held there now. They simply cannot book those acts anymore. The economics of the building do not make sense for the promotions so those concerts go elsewhere now.

So if you are a pragmatist and not an idealist, you understand that we need to move past XL in the very near term.

We also have an aging facility on campus that will be difficult to expand. There was one plan to bump out the concourse, but that’s a bandaid in a state that absolutely loves bandaids in place of solutions.

We need a mid-term plan to replace Gampel. We will come to that conclusion probably about a ten years too late.

 

[upstater]

These both are perfectly normal ways of doing business.

There are huge inefficiencies caused by this, namely competition for students. Which is dumb. You have Engineering schools literally creating liberal arts departments inside their schools. It's a howl. But I wont get into it.

 

[August_West]

Gampel has been full so getting people there is not a problem. Plenty of other big east teams evenly split the home games between 2 arenas? Which ones? Off the top of my head nova and St. John’s play in 2 arenas, pretty sure nova only plays a few games in Wells Fargo not sure what St. John’s split is like. How many blue bloods nationally split it down the middle?

Neither more than 3, 4 tops in any given year. You’ve been shizzled. NO one in BigEast does what we do. Really no one in all of college basketball pays to play 1/2 their games and calls it “ home”

 

[CL82]

It’s a 33 year old building that isn’t particularly nice or comfortable. And it was not about adding seats, so while common sense should have killed it, a broke-ass state of Connecticut killed it. (It was never actually on the schedule. It was a color-pencil sketch on a plan ten years ago.)

XL is not going to get better - it will simply get worse raster or slower, depending on what they do. Gampel is not going to get better - it’s just getting older.

We need a modern 12,500-15,000 seat facility. We can pretend we don’t, but do not be surprised when “game day” atmosphere kneecaps us again when realignment comes around again. Eventually, you all will figure it out.

That’s a shame, because it made some sense and seemed relatively cost-effective. My assumption, and that’s all it was since there were never any interior renderings as far as I know, was that if you are installing an exterior concourse, a portion of the interior concourse could be used for seats.

For what it’s worth, Gampel is an iconic structure with the geodesic dome. Not that it ever produced the reported savings that a “modular” ceiling was supposed to produce, but it is unique. It would be a shame to see it taken down, in my opinion.

 

[upstater]

Your comment took me by surprise. I went looking for data and found this which suggests that CT provides one of the highest subsidies per student:

State Support for Higher Education per Full-Time Equivalent Student | National Science Foundation - State Indicators

Public universities rely on state support for a substantial share of their operating revenues, most of which support their education function.

ncses.nsf.gov

I'm sure its more complicated than this. How do you arrive at the bottom quintile?

Those are gov't #s so I assume they're right. I will only say that when I looked at this in a similar discussion 2 years ago they were at the bottom. Also, this government listing has them at well above 50% of FTE which is very very good, yet the President in that article is quoted as saying they dropped into the 20s%. Either the article I read on this previously is wrong, and also the president is wrong, or else this chart is wrong. I will maybe have a look in a day when I get a chance

 

[upstater]

As for @upstater comments regarding the budget I have no clue as to what that budget would entail though he seems like he does. I have no claim one way or another regarding the budget and it's outcomes on the school.

I really don't know either when it comes to UConn. I'm just hypothetically imagining it's a place like my school. I only know that when we came up short $10m, we destroyed things. I was on the highest committee overseeing it all. It takes your breath away to see units go from 50 faculty members to 25. And then students complain they can't graduate because we don't offer the courses. And your only response is, they're right!

When a President steps out of line like this, they are on the verge of leaving their job. We had a state senate bill in NY take money away from the one public law school in the state and give it to a rinky dink private law school in Rochester. I was at a private summer party standing right next to the Pres. when he got into it with a local state Senator. President was making $1m a year. He was on fire and indignant that day. He was out of there very very soon after that. Replaced.

In my state, we did a little exercise where we determined EVERYONE in state political leadership had attended private school. The President of my school at the time came out of the Cal. system and had been in the B1G for much of his career. He said to me that this state was bizarre and ass backward when it came to support of public schools. It's a private school mentality; the height of idiocy.

 

[Ha Who]

If the State of Connecticut and the politicians want UConn to play in Hartford then they need find a solution to renovating the XL Center once and for all. Stop kicking the can down the road. It’s only going to get worse which is going to make these conversations even more difficult to have.

Also, to the state politicians and Hartford business leaders - stop thinking eight or so games at the XL Center is going to make Hartford. Find a way to incentive more businesses and corporations to move back Downtown which is the only way to create economic vitality. More jobs, more people will create more demand for other things (housing, retail, nightlife, etc.). It’s not going to happen any other way.

Well put. When I walk around the city during my lunch, It is depressing how empty it is other than the occasional guy who says, sir, sir, sir, and the smell of weed by the bus stops..

Find a way to incentive more businesses and corporations to move back Downtown which is the only way to create economic vitality. More jobs, more people will create more demand for other things (housing, retail, nightlife, etc.). It’s not going to happen any other way.

 

[HuskyHawk]

With you upright and breathing, the state’s ”dumbest person” is way out of her reach.


Bingo.

The governor‘s proposed budget is ruinous to the university. He has a thousand priorities…higher education in the state is not remotely close to being one of them.

The prez is 100% right to threaten Hartford. It’s a crap deal and we should walk from it - have fun operating that pile of garbage on third-rate hockey and PAW Patrol.

For those of us who were around and attended UConn before the big funding push around 2000, this feels like a return to the way it was. The attitude was always that they've got Fairfield, Sacred Heart, Trinity, Yale, Wesleyan etc. so why bother funding UConn.

I don't mind them forcing schools to trim the fat and pet projects, there is too much administrative bloat. But this is extreme. So she's right to threaten something worth a lot more to them than they realize.

 

[XLCenterFan]

"Super suburban" is an accurate description for most of the state, although some are rural. Hartford isn't a draw for most people.

“Super suburban” is also a mindset. All encompassing for the anti-city crowd.

 

[BIIIG]

You’re basing “things to do in Hartford” around one thing to do. Not smart. And something tells me you never venture into Hartford. And your argument is what? UConn shouldn’t play in Hartford because when there’s an away game there is nowhere to watch the game in Hartford?

Sorry I expect somewhere that hosts half of the home games the team plays to be a sort of hub for the team. Its totally excusable to be a capital city and have no downtown bars that are open and have the game on at noon on a weekend because checks notes...Parkville Market and the Bushnell exist, my bad, I was wrong

These Hartford bars and restaurants all rely on UConn basketball coming into town and providing them their busiest days of the year but do absolutely nothing to retain that business, nothing to keep that UConn support a part of Hartford. Host a game watch, have a post UConn Football game party, have one of coaches roadshows in Hartford, 10% of your meal with a ticket stub. If you want UConn to play half the games in Hartford, you have to make Hartford a Home for UConn. The fact that you deem it "Not Smart." to base my opinion on whether or not I think UConn should continue to go out of their way to play in Hartford on that factor, tells me more about your intellect than mine.

I'm fine with games being played at XL, I get it, its not my preference, but I get it. But the notion that Hartford has it going on, and any one who disagrees with you is "a snob who never goes into the city" is ridiculous.