Fun Fact on Carlton

[nelsonmuntz]

The hate for Carlton is really disturbing. We have become one of those s-hole state SEC football fanbases that take it personally when their team's players don't win enough for the "fans" tastes.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nobody is trying to run him out, just want a better big to come in and have Carlton as a bench player.

LOL

 

[navery12]

You have a lot invested in the hate of a player on a team you claim to love.

Replace this sentence with coach and take a look in the mirror

 

[storrsroars]

You have a lot invested in the hate of a player on a team you claim to love.

Nice assumption, while missing the point that my post was all about you and your posting history/style, not about Carlton...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Replace this sentence with coach and take a look in the mirror

So saying that I think Carlton should play 7-10 more minutes a game is equivalent to saying I hate Hurley?

If I hate a coach, I will make no secret about it. I hated Diaco before he had finished hiring his staff.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nice assumption, while missing the point that my post was all about you and your posting history/style, not about Carlton...

So you are attacking me personally for saying I think Carlton should play a little more?

 

[navery12]

So saying that I think Carlton should play 7-10 more minutes a game is equivalent to saying I hate Hurley?

If I hate a coach, I will make no secret about it. I hated Diaco before he had finished hiring his staff.

To each their own but I don't think you've exactly made it a secret you hate Hurley

 

[storrsroars]

So you are attacking me personally for saying I think Carlton should play a little more?

I'm commenting on your topical monotony and delivery, which is specifically why I chose a post from another forum to make that point.

Think of it this way, here in the hoops forum, you're Kolumbo, Carlton is Barr, Hurley is Schiff and so on. Hopefully that gets through to you.

 

[Fatroony5]

The hate for Carlton is really disturbing. We have become one of those s-hole state SEC football fanbases that take it personally when their team's players don't win enough for the "fans" tastes.

No one is personally hating on him, were just stating facts. He’s not playing well, could he turn it around? Sure. But he might not. Take a look at his numbers from last year conference play to this year...
2019 conference play : 10.2 PPG 7.4 reb 1.8 blocks 61.5% FG, 60% free throw offensive rating 111, Player efficiency rating 21.6

2020 conference play: 5.2 PPG 5.8 reb 1 block 43% FG 45.8 %FT offensive rating 93.5, PER 13.9

That’s a stark contrast. If he was providing similar production to last season, I don’t think there’d be much complaining about his play. They need his physical play against bigger teams, but the numbers are what they are. Why posters can’t see that is beyond me.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Nobody doubles down on stupid like Waylon

 

[tuvent08]

I’ll never get those few minutes of reading this back.

 

[nadav]

The hate for Carlton is really disturbing. We have become one of those s-hole state SEC football fanbases that take it personally when their team's players don't win enough for the "fans" tastes.

Here is a fun fact. Being critical of certain parts of a kids game (be it Carlton or Vital, etc) does not mean you hate them.

 

[ctchamps]

No one is personally hating on him, were just stating facts. He’s not playing well, could he turn it around? Sure. But he might not. Take a look at his numbers from last year conference play to this year...
2019 conference play : 10.2 PPG 7.4 reb 1.8 blocks 61.5% FG, 60% free throw offensive rating 111, Player efficiency rating 21.6

2020 conference play: 5.2 PPG 5.8 reb 1 block 43% FG 45.8 %FT offensive rating 93.5, PER 13.9

That’s a stark contrast. If he was providing similar production to last season, I don’t think there’d be much complaining about his play. They need his physical play against bigger teams, but the numbers are what they are. Why posters can’t see that is beyond me.

Good analysis. Towards the end of last season many of us felt Josh was going to be a big factor towards an improved season this year.

The question is why the regression. Is it a loss of confidence? Is it that our poor 3pt shooting has allowed more double and triple teaming of Josh? Is it because he’s too muscle bound?
Is it because Akok was not a complementary player for Josh? Perhaps Akok’s .261 3pt shooting percentage plus Akok primarily staying on the perimeter allowed Akok’s defender to double Josh quicker than happened last season when Tyler with his better 3pt shooting played the four? Any other possibility?

My guess is it’s a combination of these factors. I haven’t seen any attempt in this thread to explain the regression or consider factors that contribute to his regression. Without that consideration the Boneyard is throwing one of our players under the bus especially when the primary hope is to find a replacement as opposed to offering advice on how Josh can get back or improve over last season.

 

[navery12]

Good analysis. Towards the end of last season many of us felt Josh was going to be a big factor towards an improved season this year.

The question is why the regression. Is it a loss of confidence? Is it that our poor 3pt shooting has allowed more double and triple teaming of Josh? Is it because he’s too muscle bound?
Is it because Akok was not a complementary player for Josh? Perhaps Akok’s .261 3pt shooting percentage plus Akok primarily staying on the perimeter allowed Akok’s defender to double Josh quicker than happened last season when Tyler with his better 3pt shooting played the four? Any other possibility?

My guess is it’s a combination of these factors. I haven’t seen any attempt in this thread to explain the regression or consider factors that contribute to his regression. Without that consideration the Boneyard is throwing one of our players under the bus especially when the primary hope is to find a replacement as opposed to offering advice on how Josh can get back or improve over last season.

It's been discussed ad nauseum what could have contributed to Carlton's plateau/regression this year. Maybe not in this thread but this is the 100th iteration this month alone and the consensus seems to be that he gained too much muscle and can't move as well now

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

yeah, uh no. josh and james, having played the same amount of minutes so far, each average around 2 tos a game. ag and cv, about 2.5 per game. james gets the freshman pass, cv gets the hustle pass, ag gets no pass, and josh could be better, even tho often there are 2 or 3 mice up in his grille when he gets the ball.

2019-20 American Athletic Conference - UConn

Different competition, different times, but Josh's stats are touch better than those of Oriakhi in his Junior year when so much more was expected than was shown.
Then again, Drummond came to UConn and Cockburn didn't.

 

[ctchamps]

It's been discussed ad nauseum what could have contributed to Carlton's plateau/regression this year. Maybe not in this thread but this is the 100th iteration this month alone and the consensus seems to be that he gained too much muscle and can't move as well now

So @Chief00 is to blame?

If that’s the case it should be reversible. Maybe with different conditioning he progresses from the end of last season. It’s not guaranteed but it’s certainly the preferable outcome for a kid who stuck with the program.

Nelson’s point is we prefer to discard kids when they go through tough times instead of supporting them.

Go back to the end of last season and review the comments the majority of us made regarding Josh. They were quite similar to the threads we are now making about Whaley. I agree with Nelson in that there are far too many fans with a “what have you done for me lately” attitude pretending it is something more noble they’re arguing for. I disagree with him that this is something new.

 

[Chief00]

So @Chief00 is to blame?

Chief also advocates for flexibility and stretching, see my recent Akok posts.

 

[navery12]

So @Chief00 is to blame?

If that’s the case it should be reversible. Maybe with different conditioning he progresses from the end of last season. It’s not guaranteed but it’s certainly the preferable outcome for a kid who stuck with the program.

Nelson’s point is we prefer to discard kids when they go through tough times instead of supporting them.

Go back to the end of last season and review the comments the majority of us made regarding Josh. They were quite similar to the threads we are now making about Whaley. I agree with Nelson in that there are far too many fans with a “what have you done for me lately” attitude pretending it is something more noble they’re arguing for. I disagree with him that this is something new.

I can only speak for myself but I certainly don't want to discard Josh, even if this season is what he brings next year. And I don't expect that to be the case, I think like you said he can find a good balance of strength and agility this offseason.

I don't want him as the starter next year because I just don't think he fits Hurley's system well. But playing 15-20 minutes as a role player off the bench is fine with me

 

[businesslawyer]

Most of the time Carlton is going to give us something, fights hard for rebounds with a big body inside. Yes he can’t finish but we need the combo with Whaley for it all to work. And Josh tries very hard, can’t fault him for that, but there are times you want to rip him out of the game. But we same the same about CV every so often.

This, to me, is the point. You can't count on Javonte Brown Ferguson for next year, and there will be matchups that IW, as good as he's been recently, just can't handle defensively.

Josh hasn't been good enough offensively. But absent a grad transfer coming in he is going to be part of our Center rotation next year, and there is no reason his offensive game can't rebound to where it was last year.

 

[ctchamps]

Chief also advocates for flexibility and stretching, see my recent Akok posts.

The winky face was meant to indicate I knew you advocate flexibility. Do you have any idea on the Sal(?) did not monitor Josh’s flexibility?

 

[HuskyHawk]

This, to me, is the point. You can't count on Javonte Brown Ferguson for next year, and there will be matchups that IW, as good as he's been recently, just can't handle defensively.

Josh hasn't been good enough offensively. But absent a grad transfer coming in he is going to be part of our Center rotation next year, and there is no reason his offensive game can't rebound to where it was last year.

Yeah, I still think he has value. Clearly Whaley could not begin to handle Vogt and Josh did a good job on him. He actually looks slimmer and a little more energetic lately and even hit that nice jumper. Unfortunately, his foul problems against Temple were brutal or he would have played more. He is missing layups like crazy after shooting 60% last year, and my only guess is that he's just taking different shots now.

The main challenge with Josh is that he can't roam outside the paint and recover, which Hurley clearly wants his 5 to be able to do. So teams game plan against him, drag him out and exploit us at the rim. Akok helped prevent that some, and now we don't have any rim protection in that situation.

Hurley is going to play the guy who is getting the job done based on the matchup we have. And he's going to value defense over offense.

 

[Chief00]

The winky face was meant to indicate I knew you advocate flexibility. Do you have any idea on the Sal(?) did not monitor Josh’s flexibility?

Well, we now have 2 guys you can legitimately question flexibility and stretching regiments. (Josh and Akok).

 

[Chief00]

Yeah, I still think he has value. Clearly Whaley could not begin to handle Vogt and Josh did a good job on him. He actually looks slimmer and a little more energetic lately and even hit that nice jumper. Unfortunately, his foul problems against Temple were brutal or he would have played more. He is missing layups like crazy after shooting 60% last year, and my only guess is that he's just taking different shots now.

The main challenge with Josh is that he can't roam outside the paint and recover, which Hurley clearly wants his 5 to be able to do. So teams game plan against him, drag him out and exploit us at the rim. Akok helped prevent that some, and now we don't have any rim protection in that situation.

Hurley is going to play the guy who is getting the job done based on the matchup we have. And he's going to value defense over offense.

I agree with this assessment.

 

[FroginCT]

I honestly believe Carlton could benefit from a sports psychologist. IMO his biggest issues are confidence, frustration, and pressing too hard.

 

[businesslawyer]

I honestly believe Carlton could benefit from a sports psychologist. IMO his biggest issues are confidence, frustration, and pressing too hard.

Actually, I think he's playing with more confidence. But he's pressing too hard and being overaggressive, leading to too many silly fouls. You may be right. He may just need the offseason to get his mind straight again.