Freshman of the Year | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Freshman of the Year

TN-Gamecock said:
Imagine if Geno had along with Paige and current roster: Catlin Clark, Cameron Brink, & Kamilla Cardoso....

It would be the greatest women's basketball team of all-time.
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Geno has the following players in 2000 - 2001 years. I will assume this is one of the best team.

G Ashley Valley 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) Fr Rice Memorial Colchester, Vermont
G/F Diana Taurasi 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) So Don Lugo Chino, California
G Maria Conlon 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) So Seymour Derby, Connecticut
G Sue Bird (C) 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) Sr Christ the King Syosset, New York
G Stacey Marron 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) Fr La Cueva Albuquerque, New Mexico
F/C Asjha Jones 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Sr Piscataway Piscataway, New Jersey
G Morgan Valley 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) So Rice Memorial Colchester, Vermont
F Ashley Battle 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) RS Fr The Linsly School, WVA Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
C Jessica Moore 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m) RS Fr Colony Palmer, Alaska
F Swin Cash (C) 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Sr McKeesport McKeesport, Pennsylvania
F Tamika Williams 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Sr Chaminade-Julienne Dayton, Ohio
 
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It's likely a 2 woman race between Watkins/Hidalgo. Hidalgo has better overall numbers, Watkins has led her team to more team success thus far. Both are incredible and should make one of the AP All America teams. These 2 are putting up a Clark/Bueckers type of battle that we saw in 2020-21.

Players like Madison Booker, Mikaylah Williams and Taliah Scott would be strong favorites to win it in most other years. Booker in particular has been incredible as of late, leading Texas to many conference wins while carrying a huge load with Harmon out. You also have a slew of really good freshmen like Addy Brown, Audi Crooks, Stailee Heard, Ashlynn Shade, Milaysai Fulwiley (plus others) who deserve mention for their play this year.
 
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The surprise freshman of the year has to be Taliah Scott from Arky. She was not highly recruited as the others but boy has she made an impact on the Arky team. ESPN Gurlz Hoops rankings are always off. Alyiah Boston was the #3 player according to them, she was definitely #1 in her class. Ryhne Howard for UK was ranked I believe in the low 30's and she was a star from day #1 at UK.

Taliah Scott was definitely underrated by ESPN.
 
Kaizen said:
Geno has the following players in 2000 - 2001 years. I will assume this is one of the best team.

G Ashley Valley 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) Fr Rice Memorial Colchester, Vermont
G/F Diana Taurasi 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) So Don Lugo Chino, California
G Maria Conlon 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) So Seymour Derby, Connecticut
G Sue Bird (C) 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) Sr Christ the King Syosset, New York
G Stacey Marron 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) Fr La Cueva Albuquerque, New Mexico
F/C Asjha Jones 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Sr Piscataway Piscataway, New Jersey
G Morgan Valley 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) So Rice Memorial Colchester, Vermont
F Ashley Battle 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) RS Fr The Linsly School, WVA Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
C Jessica Moore 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m) RS Fr Colony Palmer, Alaska
F Swin Cash (C) 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Sr McKeesport McKeesport, Pennsylvania
F Tamika Williams 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Sr Chaminade-Julienne Dayton, Ohio
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I believe you have listed the 2001-02 team.
 
Gus Mahler said:
I believe you have listed the 2001-02 team.
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You are right..

1706143586585.png
 
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Bold prediction: Tonight MK12 shows she’s the best freshman in this class.
 
triaddukefan said:
People are throwing around the term superstar and great all willy nilly. No shade towards Fudd or Harmon, but they aren't superstars in my opinion. Neither Fulwilly or Williams great players right now. Just a few pet peeves coming from a old and rapidly graying cranky citizen.
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Wasn’t the question, though, freshman of the year. I think Shade is not the most talented freshman, but she has filled in for Azzi Fudd exceptionally well. Pretty impressive. I haven’t seen Watkins but it seems like she is the one mentioned most often. Lots of pretty talented frosh. Arnold has also been an impact player.
 
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JstVisiting said:
I don’t even think she’ll be the best freshman in the game.
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I can see a big game from the freshman you speak of. I believe she thrives in the type of environment she will be in tonight. Respectfully, I don't think there's anyone on the South Carolina roster that can stop Mikayla. We'll see here soon in the coming hours.
 
BlueDevils said:
I can see a big game from the freshman you speak of. I believe she thrives in the type of environment she will be in tonight. Respectfully, I don't think there's anyone on the South Carolina roster that can stop Mikayla. We'll see here soon in the coming hours.
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She's a great player ready for a breakout game. But I think there's a lot of folks on SC who can stop her. And it will be even easier given the strength of Kamila Kitts Watkins and Feagins backing up the guards. This will allow the guards to take more chances on defense.
 
Bone Dog said:
She's a great player ready for a breakout game. But I think there's a lot of folks on SC who can stop her. And it will be even easier given the strength of Kamila Kitts Watkins and Feagins backing up the guards. This will allow the guards to take more chances on defense.
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Elite guard skills in a pro body. Bree Hall is an outstanding defender, but I think the physicality of Williams gives her the advantage. Watkins has the physicality to defend, but does she have the defensive discipline to guard someone like Mikayla without fouling? This is going to be an really exciting game with some great matchups.

For what it's worth, when I see Mikayla Williams play her offensive ability reminds me of one player... who is arguably one of the best collegiate players ever. To not get crucified on this board I'll keep that name to myself for now. LOL
 
BlueDevils said:
I can see a big game from the freshman you speak of. I believe she thrives in the type of environment she will be in tonight. Respectfully, I don't think there's anyone on the South Carolina roster that can stop Mikayla. We'll see here soon in the coming hours.
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We'll see. I've only watched one complete LSU game and parts of a handful of others.
 
BlueDevils said:
Elite guard skills in a pro body. Bree Hall is an outstanding defender, but I think the physicality of Williams gives her the advantage. Watkins has the physicality to defend, but does she have the defensive discipline to guard someone like Mikayla without fouling? This is going to be an really exciting game with some great matchups.

For what it's worth, when I see Mikayla Williams play her offensive ability reminds me of one player... who is arguably one of the best collegiate players ever. To not get crucified on this board I'll keep that name to myself for now. LOL
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I've seen Williams play in a lot of different settings and she is very talented, and stronger than most of the guards she's faced. But you seem to be imagining that she'll be playing one-on-one in the SC game. That is highly unlikely. Dawn will much more likely play a switching-man defense. Hall is indeed an excellent defender, but she doesn't have to stop the drives by herself.

LSU hasn't faced a team like this yet, with such a strong front court and a strong backcourt. And it's worth observing that she was contained effectively enough by Auburn and Colorado, teams with not nearly the talent SC has.
 
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Bone Dog said:
I've seen Williams play in a lot of different settings and she is very talented, and stronger than most of the guards she's faced. But you seem to be imagining that she'll be playing one-on-one in the SC game. That is highly unlikely. Dawn will much more likely play a switching-man defense. Hall is indeed an excellent defender, but she doesn't have to stop the drives by herself.

LSU hasn't faced a team like this yet, with such a strong front court and a strong backcourt. And it's worth observing that she was contained effectively enough by Auburn and Colorado, teams with not nearly the talent SC has.
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I agree with your take on SC defensive scheme, one of the main reason I see her having a big game. She has the elevation to shoot over any smaller defenders and the quickness in her moves to get to her "spot" against bigs. Now will that be enough to prevail LSU to a win tonight? TBD... SC frontcourt is really dominant, LSU will have the home court advantage.

The game against Auburn she looked like a freshman plain and simple. In my opinion, she looked really good in her first collegiate game against Colorado. Exciting game coming up that it's going to be great for women's basketball!
 
bballnut90 said:
It's likely a 2 woman race between Watkins/Hidalgo. Hidalgo has better overall numbers, Watkins has led her team to more team success thus far. Both are incredible and should make one of the AP All America teams. These 2 are putting up a Clark/Bueckers type of battle that we saw in 2020-21. . . .
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Been thinking about the Watkins/Hidalgo comparisons to the rookie seasons of Bueckers/Clark. When you look at the rookie stats of Bueckers, Clark, Hidalgo & Watkins, Juju is a distant 4th, and Juju's early conference efficiency numbers (which could certainly change with 12 games left) are simply not very good.

Stats as of a.m. 1/25/24
1706211801499.png

Win Shares= an advanced stat that approximates the total number of wins a player produces for their team
Per*Minutes = an estimate of the total value created by a player via Player Efficiency Rating

In thinking about AA teams, only 4 freshman have ever made one of the 5-player First-Team AA teams of AP (since 1995) or USBWA (since 1988, though many years USBWA had 10-player teams, with 5-player teams returning in 2018):

AP-Courtney Paris, Maya Moore & Paige Bueckers; and
USBWA-Paige Bueckers & Caitlin Clark.

To date, the Hidalgo comparison to the rookie years of Bueckers/Clark is reasonable, which gives her a legitimate chance to join the select group of first-year 5-player AAs. Watkins does not belong in that group.
 
BigTenGuy said:
Been thinking about the Watkins/Hidalgo comparisons to the rookie seasons of Bueckers/Clark. When you look at the rookie stats of Bueckers, Clark, Hidalgo & Watkins, Juju is a distant 4th, and Juju's early conference efficiency numbers (which could certainly change with 12 games left) are simply not very good.

Stats as of a.m. 1/25/24
View attachment 95638
Win Shares= an advanced stat that approximates the total number of wins a player produces for their team
Per*Minutes = an estimate of the total value created by a player via Player Efficiency Rating

In thinking about AA teams, only 4 freshman have ever made one of the 5-player First-Team AA teams of AP (since 1995) or USBWA (since 1988, though many years USBWA had 10-player teams, with 5-player teams returning in 2018):

AP-Courtney Paris, Maya Moore & Paige Bueckers; and
USBWA-Paige Bueckers & Caitlin Clark.

To date, the Hidalgo comparison to the rookie years of Bueckers/Clark is reasonable, which gives her a legitimate chance to join the select group of first-year 5-player AAs. Watkins does not belong in that group.
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Where do you find the advanced stats? They are so much easier to find for the men's game
 
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I think Juju is a major talent who could have had a better portfolio to bring to the awards committees if she had a better coach and team around her.
 
BigTenGuy said:
Been thinking about the Watkins/Hidalgo comparisons to the rookie seasons of Bueckers/Clark. When you look at the rookie stats of Bueckers, Clark, Hidalgo & Watkins, Juju is a distant 4th, and Juju's early conference efficiency numbers (which could certainly change with 12 games left) are simply not very good.

Stats as of a.m. 1/25/24
View attachment 95638
Win Shares= an advanced stat that approximates the total number of wins a player produces for their team
Per*Minutes = an estimate of the total value created by a player via Player Efficiency Rating

In thinking about AA teams, only 4 freshman have ever made one of the 5-player First-Team AA teams of AP (since 1995) or USBWA (since 1988, though many years USBWA had 10-player teams, with 5-player teams returning in 2018):

AP-Courtney Paris, Maya Moore & Paige Bueckers; and
USBWA-Paige Bueckers & Caitlin Clark.

To date, the Hidalgo comparison to the rookie years of Bueckers/Clark is reasonable, which gives her a legitimate chance to join the select group of first-year 5-player AAs. Watkins does not belong in that group.
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I think if USC stays around top 10 she has a very legitimate shot. I don’t think voters will analyze advanced stat metrics as much as they’ll be impressed by 26 points, 7 rebounds and 3.5 assists. A lot will depend on how well she produces in conference play (as you noted).

In regards to AA honors, I wasn’t saying both deserved to be on a top 5 player team, just that they’ll likely make one of the 3 teams (that each has 5 people). Hidalgo I’d put on 1st team, Watkins I’d put on 2nd or 3rd at the moment. All American awards are heavily dependent on team success, so conference play will make or break both IMO.
 
Bone Dog said:
I think Juju is a major talent who could have had a better portfolio to bring to the awards committees if she had a better coach and team around her.
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You know what they say about "ifs and buts". Juju chose that team knowing the concerns. Without a doubt, Hildago has had the better year according to any statistical measure. The problem is ND does not have an opportunity for any "marquee" wins except for Sat.

Juju is really good but as noted, Hildago does it on both sides of the ball and her game has been consistent with the start of conference play. Given the limitations of Gottlieb's coaching, Massey has an expected record of 7-6 for USC for the rest of the year to finish at 20-9 while ND is predicted to go 22-7 and may win the ACC.

Honestly, this is a two person race with Hildago having a clear lead over Watkins. These two are way, way ahead of Booker and Williams. Sorry to tell all my fellow BYers that yes, we can love both KK and Ash but their contributions are woefully behind these other Freshman as both KK and Ash have important but lesser roles on the UConn team that seeks title #12. Maybe Williams at LSU is the only other one whose teams aspirations have a similar aspirations of a title and is why her FOY candidacy is also doomed. She has Reese and Morrow as the two lead actors.
 
Lotsa eyes on the UConn game. If Hidalgo puts up big numbers, she wins FOY this weekend.

If not, then the edge probably goes to the player whose team finishes ranked higher.
 
maple said:
No.

www.ncaa.com

Every women’s college basketball player to dunk in a game

Beginning with Georgeann Wells and ending with Francesca Belibi, here is the list of the eight women's college basketball players to dunk in a game.
www.ncaa.com www.ncaa.com

Does it matter, though? It looks flashy and cool but a 2pt basket is a 2pt basket. It's not like there's any WBB player consistently slamming down an alley-oop like the men.
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I don't get the fascination.

I think a player like Griner who can do it casually could be an advantage.
 
DefenseBB said:
You know what they say about "ifs and buts". Juju chose that team knowing the concerns. Without a doubt, Hildago has had the better year according to any statistical measure. The problem is ND does not have an opportunity for any "marquee" wins except for Sat.

Juju is really good but as noted, Hildago does it on both sides of the ball and her game has been consistent with the start of conference play. Given the limitations of Gottlieb's coaching, Massey has an expected record of 7-6 for USC for the rest of the year to finish at 20-9 while ND is predicted to go 22-7 and may win the ACC.

Honestly, this is a two person race with Hildago having a clear lead over Watkins. These two are way, way ahead of Booker and Williams. Sorry to tell all my fellow BYers that yes, we can love both KK and Ash but their contributions are woefully behind these other Freshman as both KK and Ash have important but lesser roles on the UConn team that seeks title #12. Maybe Williams at LSU is the only other one whose teams aspirations have a similar aspirations of a title and is why her FOY candidacy is also doomed. She has Reese and Morrow as the two lead actors.
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A few things:

I would argue Hidalgo has several opportunities for a "marquee" win. Yes against UConn, but also against NC State. They also play Louisville twice and Virginia Tech once.

Not sure why you're down on Gottlieb's coaching? She brought Cal to a Final 4 and has fairly quickly brought USC back to prominence, but haven't followed her career closely.

Measuring conference efficiency rate is a bit misleading given JuJu is playing in arguably one of the toughest conferences in recent memory (with 4 teams at one point in the top 10). The Big East Paige's freshman year (and current year) is not at all close to that level. The B10 Clark's freshmen year was pretty good, sending 7 teams to the NCAA tournament; 4 of them (MD, Iowa, Michigan, Indiana) made it at least to the Sweet 16.

Which is all to say, the start of JuJu's Pac12 career has been..tough:

@UCLA (NET 7)
vs Oregon St (NET 22)
vs Oregon (NET 89)
vs UCLA (NET 7)
@ Utah (NET 5)
@ Colorado (NET 17)

Whereas Hidalgo has faced:
@ SYR (NET 47)
@ PITT (NET 179)
vs BC (NET 85)
vs UNC (NET 28)
vs MIA (NET 41)
@UVA (NET 68)
@WF (NET 154)
vs SYR (NET 47)

They are both amazing players, who are obviously on very different teams, in very different conferences. But I think it's pretty unequivocal that JuJu has played a tougher conference schedule; so i'm not surprised her numbers have fallen.
 
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