Frank Jackson to Duke

[nelsonmuntz]

When did this become a Duke board?

 

[Chief00]

We would take the same one and dones as Duke - who are we kidding? Coach K adjusted to the new realities - my belief is he doesn't like the 1 year deal but that's the landscape and he has reluctantly adjusted.

 

[Citrusdog]

He's a great coach.

It's not even a debate.

Absolutely - about K. The squid on the other hand - has proven that he can push the edges of the legal envelope - without getting caught - as much.

 

[Kitaman]

Wow a lot has changed since 1990! I'm must be nearing the check out line.

 

[Brochacho]

"K isn't a good coach because I don't think he is a good coach and I have no evidence to support my claim.. something, something, darkside"

 

[Chief00]

Coach K is a terrific recruiter but I wouldn't say he is a terrific coach, is he? I mean it's hard to judge when you're constantly getting the cream of the crop - or if the cream of the crop is going to KY you're still getting that terrific layer of cream right below it.

Remember when we constantly mocked Coach K for being overrated (losing to a 10pt dog in 99, making poor coaching decisions which ultimately to a collapse in the final 3 minutes in 2004, sitting on his ass against Arizona in 2011 as is team was getting hit by a mack truck and refusing to call timeouts to stop the bleeding?

To be clear, I'm not saying he's a *bad* coach, but I do think he's overrated, unless you think recruiting skill is as important as in-game coaching, which I dont. And there's the thing of him using USA basketball as an extra recruiting tool. And he clearly doesn't care to much about going after "student athletes" any more, does he?

At the Meadowsland last season Coach K called a timeout a few minutes into the second half after UConn went on a run. During the timeout he ripped into his team - and they came out and blew UConn out after that.
True, not against a top notch UConn team - but it was a great coaching move and result nevertheless.

 

[nomar]

At the Meadowsland last season Coach K called a timeout a few minutes into the second half after UConn went on a run. During the timeout he ripped into his team - and they came out and blew UConn out after that.
True, not against a top notch UConn team - but it was a great coaching move and result nevertheless.

It was a great coaching move to call a timeout and yell at his players? By that token, quite frankly, Jim Calhoun was the greatest coach of all time.

 

[selles]

But before K, Duke was the third best program in North Carolina and maybe the fifth-best in the ACC, as well as being outside the top 20 all time.

That is a bit of K mythology. Duke was an excellent national program through much of the 1960's. They went into a trough in the early '70s but had rebounded under Bill Foster with an appearance in the Finals in 1978 and #1 poll rankings at various times during 1979 and 1980. They went to the Final 8 in 1980, the year before K took over. The perception of K building the program from mediocrity is based on the putrid performance of his own early teams.

None of that takes away from the fact that K is without doubt an excellent coach who has done an exceptional job of building a monster program.

I do though think the perception that Duke will be invincible now that it's fully on board the 1 and done train is fueled by a healthy dose of recency bias. I think people are forgetting that Duke rode some very strong recruiting classes to first round losses against Lehigh and Mercer in 2012 and 2014. I also think people are underrating just how perfectly Jones, Okafor and Winslow fit together, and particularly how much of a chemistry beast Winslow was. We'll see....

 

[Inyatkin]

I'm just waiting for the national writers who have in the past killed Calipari for his supposed one-and-done culture will direct one-tenth that level of ire at K, who has basically fielded a completely new roster every year lately.

 

[Fishy]

Krzyzewski is the greatest coach in the 64 game era by all conventional measures. That's inarguable.
Was building Duke to 5 titles a greater feat than building CT to 4? That's easily arguable.

But "winning a 1,018 games" and "winning at a 76% clip " aren't nearly as compelling as they sound.

First, I continue to be amazed that some hayseeds cannot handle any topic without needing to fall back to what appears to be their sole frame of reference - UConn. Whether K is a great coach or not is completely independent of anything that's happened at UConn.

Second, if you think 1,018 games "aren't nearly as compelling", you're a freaking moron.

 

[8893]

I’m guessing very few of you saw this—not being Mets, Phillies or WBB fans—but Geno threw out the first pitch (strike!) at Citi Field last night and they interviewed him during the game. He had some interesting thoughts on the difference between sports like basketball and football, where players are frequently judged historically on the number of championships they’ve won, versus baseball, which has become mostly an individual sport where players are frequently judged on individual stats like HRs, hits, wins, saves, etc.

He very skillfully transitioned from that to a discussion of playing at a place like Connecticut, where championships are the expectation because of our history of basketball excellence. And then he wove the championship tradition of UConn basketball into UConn baseball, pointing out the UConn players in the Mets farm system, and concluding that college athletes in all sports now come to UConn with the expectation that winning championships is not only possible, but that it is the goal.

All of which is to say that, I think most here would agree that the best gauge of the quality of a D1 basketball program is whether, and how frequently/consistently, that team is in position to compete for championships. On that scale, I don’t think there is anyone in the post-Wooden era who comes close to K. I’ll take JC head-to-head in any game, and he is certainly in the discussion for next best after K, but there is simply no denying K’s standing and success.

 

[MexicoHusky]

Maybe Geno always was a good promoter of UCONN, but he seems to have picked it up since Calhoun left.

 

[MexicoHusky]

At the 99 final four Duke exit the building through a tunnel that was in the UCONN section. All the Duke players and some of their famous alum exit through a chorus of boos from UCONN fans. I literally could have slapped Elton Brand in the face. Grant Hill seemed cool. For whatever reason K didn't exit with his team. He must have found an alternate exit. K probably had a legit reason, but it is my contention that he WUSSED OUT! Laettner too! They were probably crying and making out in a corner some place.

Calhoun would have fought each pansy Duke fan. One at a time or all at once...K sucks.

 

[Kitaman]

First, I continue to be amazed that some hayseeds cannot handle any topic without needing to fall back to what appears to be their sole frame of reference - UConn. Whether K is a great coach or not is completely independent of anything that's happened at UConn.

Second, if you think 1,018 games "aren't nearly as compelling", you're a freaking moron.

Perhaps you should put a visual with your arguements. They seem to not be getting your verbalized methods.

 

[David 76]

Duke was a good program before K. But McDonald's AA were lining up to go there. He built that and deserves credit apart from the miracle JC did for us. K is a great coach who I have a much harder time hating than most folks here.
Now the Squid, I hate in spite of his success.

 

[Matrim55]

That is a bit of K mythology. Duke was an excellent national program through much of the 1960's. They went into a trough in the early '70s but had rebounded under Bill Foster with an appearance in the Finals in 1978 and #1 poll rankings at various times during 1979 and 1980...

Yeah, but they weren't within shouting distance of UNC or NC State, were pretty clearly behind Virginia and arguably Maryland and/or Georgia Tech at that point as well.

Duke was a good program having a lull when K took over. But they weren't a top-20 program all-time.

 

[mauconnfan]

There is no argument on how great a coach K is as well as a program builder, none. He's among the best 3 of all time at the very least in all arguments. I get the "he's had better players" and "some players never became really good under him" as he has made some errors in judgement and has fallen short with some really good teams. But he's been there a lot and we all know how hard it is to get there. The target they wear, as we are well aware of due to our "love" for the Blue Devils, is incredible so it's never easy - they always get everyone's best including the fanfare.

He's amazing, don't particularly like him all that much and he's been given a little too much rope by the NCAA in many ways, but he's taken advantage of it all and that's still not easy to do.

 

[mauconnfan]

Yeah, but they weren't within shouting distance of UNC or NC State, were pretty clearly behind Virginia and arguably Maryland and/or Georgia Tech at that point as well.

Duke was a good program having a lull when K took over. But they weren't a top-20 program all-time.

This ^^^^^- they weren't great by any means and he made them that way. But he had a lot more to work with than JC - JC's job of building is more impressive without a doubt.

 

[ctchamps]

Fishy could use this meditation right now!

 

[champs99and04]

What's the standard Cal is held to? Coach K and Calhoun coach circles around Cal.

The standard where he has been to four final fours in five years and yet still some don't think he can coach.

Look - I'm not saying Cal is a great in game coach. But please, go watch Steve Lavin or Josh Pastner or Rick Barnes coach a basketball team and tell me Cal can't coach.

Calhoun beating him by one point in the final four back in 2011 (not exactly one of Cal's most loaded teams, mind you) does not exactly constitute "coaching circles around him," IMO.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The standard where he has been to four final fours in five years and yet still some don't think he can coach.

Look - I'm not saying Cal is a great in game coach. But please, go watch Steve Lavin or Josh Pastner or Rick Barnes coach a basketball team and tell me Cal can't coach.

Calhoun beating him by one point in the final four back in 2011 (not exactly one of Cal's most loaded teams, mind you) does not exactly constitute "coaching circles around him," IMO.

Amazing that this is controversial around here.

 

[upstater]

Calipari is so hard to like that it gives some of us great pleasure to see people like Francesa ragging on his coaching skills.

Come on, you can't be surprised at this.

Plus, the guy does meltdown in tight situations.

I don't care how well you teach Xs and Os, how good your in-game strategies and decisions are, if your alarm-bell-panicking is freaking out your team, that can't be good.

 

[superjohn]

The standard where he has been to four final fours in five years and yet still some don't think he can coach.

Look - I'm not saying Cal is a great in game coach. But please, go watch Steve Lavin or Josh Pastner or Rick Barnes coach a basketball team and tell me Cal can't coach.

Calhoun beating him by one point in the final four back in 2011 (not exactly one of Cal's most loaded teams, mind you) does not exactly constitute "coaching circles around him," IMO.

I think K and Calhoun are far better coaches than Cal. My guess is most people would agree with that and I don't see how that's controversial. I'll give Calipari some credit for making all those final 4's but he had more talent than everyone else. He's a good salesman and you can say he has managed young teams well but his in game coaching just isn't all that good. His end of game coaching in both his final 4 games against UConn was horrible. He once again looked like a deer caught in headlights at the end of the Wisconsin game last year and the Wall, Bledsoe, Patterson, Cousins team losing to a WVU team with zero NBA talent is one of the biggest chokes in recent memory. Also if you remember that UConn Kentucky semifinal game we controlled the action pretty much the entire way and had a pretty comfortable lead late before we made a couple boneheaded turnovers. Still was a 4 point game minus one of the patented half court threes that always falls against us at the end when the game is already over.

 

[August_West]

I’m guessing very few of you saw this—not being Mets, Phillies or WBB fans—but Geno threw out the first pitch (strike!) at Citi Field last night and they interviewed him during the game. He had some interesting thoughts on the difference between sports like basketball and football, where players are frequently judged historically on the number of championships they’ve won, versus baseball, which has become mostly an individual sport where players are frequently judged on individual stats like HRs, hits, wins, saves, etc. He very skillfully transitioned from that to a discussion of playing at a place like Connecticut, where championships are the expectation because of our history of basketball excellence. And then he wove the championship tradition of UConn basketball into UConn baseball, pointing out the UConn players in the Mets farm system, and concluding that college athletes in all sports now come to UConn with the expectation that winning championships is not only possible, but that it is the goal. All of which is to say that, I think most here would agree that the best gauge of the quality of a D1 basketball program is whether, and how frequently/consistently, that team is in position to compete for championships. On that scale, I don’t think there is anyone in the post-Wooden era who comes close to K. I’ll take JC head-to-head in any game, and he is certainly in the discussion for next best after K, but there is simply no denying K’s standing and success.

tl;dr stopped at " geno"

 

[TasteofUConn]

. . . you're a freaking moron.

I love you Fishy.