Frank Jackson to Duke | The Boneyard

Frank Jackson to Duke

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Duke has taken the mantle from Kentucky as the most feared team nationally. K is getting his pick of the litter and he can actually coach, I expect Duke and UConn to have some more huge matchups deep in the tournament in coming years.
 

jleves

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Duke has taken the mantle from Kentucky as the most feared team nationally. K is getting his pick of the litter and he can actually coach, I expect Duke and UConn to have some more huge matchups deep in the tournament in coming years.
Only question is how much longer is Coach K there? He's got to be getting near the end.
 
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K is obviously one of the best ever, maybe the best ever, but if he were held to the same standard Cal is I think your perspective would be much different.
 

gtcam

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Who cares, NEXT......................................
 
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Coach K is a terrific recruiter but I wouldn't say he is a terrific coach, is he? I mean it's hard to judge when you're constantly getting the cream of the crop - or if the cream of the crop is going to KY you're still getting that terrific layer of cream right below it.

Remember when we constantly mocked Coach K for being overrated (losing to a 10pt dog in 99, making poor coaching decisions which ultimately to a collapse in the final 3 minutes in 2004, sitting on his ass against Arizona in 2011 as is team was getting hit by a mack truck and refusing to call timeouts to stop the bleeding?

To be clear, I'm not saying he's a *bad* coach, but I do think he's overrated, unless you think recruiting skill is as important as in-game coaching, which I dont. And there's the thing of him using USA basketball as an extra recruiting tool. And he clearly doesn't care to much about going after "student athletes" any more, does he?
 

BUConn10

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Coach K surpassed Wooden after this past season. Now everything else is just gravy.
 
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He's a great coach.

It's not even a debate.
Overall, yes. In-game, eh,I'm not as afraid.

I will give him credit in this past championship, his whining went to extremes and he got the officials to really play a part in the final result. So in that regard, he did a great job of coaching in a big spot.
 
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K is obviously one of the best ever, maybe the best ever, but if he were held to the same standard Cal is I think your perspective would be much different.
What's the standard Cal is held to? Coach K and Calhoun coach circles around Cal.
 
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Coach K has sold his soul to the devil. He is in the process of dethroning Calipari for one-and-dones.
 
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superjohn said:
What's the standard Cal is held to? Coach K and Calhoun coach circles around Cal.

For example, if the Corey Magette scandal hit a Calipari coached team, we're talking a vacated championship game appearance. Instead it was barely a blip on the radar. I think that's what champs was getting at.
 
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The Viking said:
Remember when we constantly mocked Coach K for being overrated (losing to a 10pt dog in 99, making poor coaching decisions which ultimately to a collapse in the final 3 minutes in 2004, sitting on his ass against Arizona in 2011 as is team was getting hit by a mack truck and refusing to call timeouts to stop the bleeding? To be clear, I'm not saying he's a *bad* coach, but I do think he's overrated, unless you think recruiting skill is as important as in-game coaching, which I dont. And there's the thing of him using USA basketball as an extra recruiting tool. And he clearly doesn't care to much about going after "student athletes" any more, does he?

Yes, he is a terrific coach. Stop. Ask Calhoun who the best coach of his generation is.

That student athlete point is silly. A kid who's ready to go to the league after one year isn't automatically less of a student than a kid who takes one more year.
 
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For example, if the Corey Magette scandal hit a Calipari coached team, we're talking a vacated championship game appearance. Instead it was barely a blip on the radar. I think that's what champs was getting at.
Yes dirty Shenanigans have gone on at Duke under K, most coaches have some stuff going on when you look into it but Calipari wrote the book on being a scumbag. I was only talking about pure coaching and K is a way better coach than Cal. Coach K is the best coach of all time, with Calhoun and Knight not too far behind.
 

Fishy

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The Maggette stuff had nothing to do with K.

The problem there was that it didn't have anything to do with any of the teams that had recruited Piggie players, but almost all suffered some sort of penalty whereas Duke's problems just 'went away'. (UConn recruited off that AAU team as well - I think Deng actually played a few games for them, too.)

That said, you're just plain nuts if you don't think K is a great coach. He's won over a thousand games and has built the touchstone program in the game - you can't even get a toehold trying to argue otherwise.
 
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K is the greatest "program builder" in the history of the sport. He's understood how to create a mythology about and aura around Duke, to the point that it does 95% of the recruiting work for him. For the last 5%, he also happens to be a great recruiter. It's a tough combo to beat, especially when combined with their academics.

I don't think he's a great Xs and Os coach, though. Capable of being very good, but not at the level of Bobby Knight, or Rick Pitino, or Jim Calhoun.
 

CAHUSKY

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K is the greatest "program builder" in the history of the sport..

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh................I can think of another coach who took over a program with much less history and did pretty well.
 
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Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh......I can think of another coach who took over a program with much less history and did pretty well.
Sure - what St. Jim did was arguably even more impressive, especially since he stuck the landing by picking the perfect successor.

But before K, Duke was the third best program in North Carolina and maybe the fifth-best in the ACC, as well as being outside the top 20 all time. Now they're arguably No. 1, and certainly no worse than No. 3. And all the while he's done it by maintaining an image - justified or not - that's squeaky clean, keeping his kids mostly out of off-court trouble, never having problems with grades or academics overall, and putting a bunch of them into the league. Duke was nothing much before K; now it sells itself the way UCLA and UNC used to. There's a mystique about the program even though their history of consistent, high-level of success is only about five years longer than ours.

I absolutely wouldn't trade places with them, and I'm not certain K could have done for UConn what Calhoun did. I'm also certain that Calhoun wouldn't - maybe couldn't - have built Duke in the way that K did.
 
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Sure - what St. Jim did was arguably even more impressive, especially since he stuck the landing by picking the perfect successor.

But before K, Duke was the third best program in North Carolina and maybe the fifth-best in the ACC, as well as being outside the top 20 all time. Now they're arguably No. 1, and certainly no worse than No. 3. And all the while he's done it by maintaining an image - justified or not - that's squeaky clean, keeping his kids mostly out of off-court trouble, never having problems with grades or academics overall, and putting a bunch of them into the league. Duke was nothing much before K; now it sells itself the way UCLA and UNC used to. There's a mystique about the program even though their history of consistent, high-level of success is only about five years longer than ours.

I absolutely wouldn't trade places with them, and I'm not certain K could have done for UConn what Calhoun did. I'm also certain that Calhoun wouldn't - maybe couldn't - have built Duke in the way that K did.
The program build Calhoun did at a small state agricultural University in the middle of nowhere eastern Connecticut is the greatest program build ever. Duke has always been a fantastic school, it already had the built in rivalry with UNC and the Tobacco Road mystique and several final fours. What K did is pretty amazing, what Calhoun did was unthinkable at the time. Calhoun is responsible for UConn going from a cow town regional college to one hell of a national University.
 

intlzncster

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K also has 2 Olympic Gold Medals and 2 FIBA Golds to boot. Can coach.
 
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K is a heck of a coach, but you have to consider the talent he gets year in, year out. How many more NCs do you think JC would have had if he had the talent K has had at dook all these years? He's had what, 4 to 5 times the number of Burger-AAs over the years. Roy is another one who I think sometimes has done less with more talent, while JC and now KO have done more with less. For years I've wanted someone to put together some statistical data on what coaches have achieved most or least based on some combination of the following:

Take the combined total ranking of a program's (or coach's) recruits and calculate in the total # wins, total number of tournament wins, their plus or minus results against their tournament seeding (+ & - as in did they perform better or worse than their NCAA Seeding), NBA Drafted players and their draft positions against their composite HS rankings, etc.

I have little doubt that Roy and even K would get dinged due to some early bounces from the NCAA tourney as high seeds, highly ranked recruits that never made it to the NBA and were complete flops, etc.

Now to K's, Roys, and why don't we add Self to the list, credit they're all big time recruiters that stock the shelf with blue-chip recruits year after year and rack up tons of regular season Ws year in, year out.

I just don't think these 3 have been great big-game coaches, especially when it comes to making adjustments. K did a great job early on going deep with okay talent, but since the early 90s, he's been loading up with some of the best. He does a great job of building confidence in his kids, and might be the best there is at that part of the game. He was clearly out-coached by JC twice. Now don't get me wrong. He's come up huge a whole bunch of times, though based on the talent he's had, I would have expected him to have even more NCs under his belt. Though to his credit he does lead all coaches in the after disappointing loss hugging and crying category.

As some have already mentioned, I'd love to see some Coach K vs KO F-4 or Championship match-ups over the next few years. I like our chances with KO at the helm and the talent he's recruiting.

As much as I wouldn't want UConn and KO to turn away a boat load of Burger-AAs, I'm more than pleased with our Huskies being stocked with talented 3 and 4 year players who are good at taking down teams stocked with a bunch of 1 and/or 2-and-done's. Seems the talent is being spread out throughout the collage hoops landscape, though a few teams seem to load up annually such as Dook, UNC, UK, KU to name a few...maybe you can add Zona to that list as well.

Getting back to the topic at hand, K is among the best there is, but I doubt he'd be nearly as successful if he didn't have to over-the-top talent he's been getting over the years and lately that level is getting even better. With the talent he's getting, he should be making -4 every year and winning it more than he is. Just my opinion, and not any sour grapes. I'm proud of how JC and KO have built our program and wouldn't want it any other way. I'd love to see KO get more of his Plan-A recruits, which he might be experiencing in the 2016 class and I'd love to see us get back into a P-5 conference. With that said, I hope we get to see KO KO K and his dookies in the NCAA Tourney over the next few years.
 

Fishy

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He's won over a thousand games, wins at an 80% clip, has 12 final fours and five titles.

But he's not a 'great big-game' coach and you think he should have won more titles.

When someone is such an outlier like K in men's hoop or Geno in women's hoop, you can't explain it away by saying that they simply get good players.

F---, this place is painful at times.
 
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Krzyzewski is the greatest coach in the 64 game era by all conventional measures. That's inarguable.
Was building Duke to 5 titles a greater feat than building CT to 4? That's easily arguable.

But "winning a 1,018 games" and "winning at a 76% clip " aren't nearly as compelling as they sound.

The Nose Picker has 966 wins and a 74% win percent with one less year coached. Which is almost identical to Krzyzewski's record. Is Nose Picker a top 10 coach all time? Suppose it depends on how you gauge it.

The thing that the Boeheims and Ks have going for them is substantially momentum. The kids being recruited today have not only seen them on TV for their entire lives, their father and grandfathers and uncles and coaches all have as well. That alone is very powerful in maintaining a stranglehold on recruiting and success. It's like the original Kardashian - Zha Zha Gabor (Lord I'm dating myself here) - she was famous for being famous.

The difference between Boeheim and K is their ultimate success. K won when it mattered. B did not.

Ultimately, IMO, you have to ask, "what did you do with the talent you had?" That's a fair question. It's one that damns Roy, and B, and Barnes, and Self, to one extent or another.

And we have KO. And he already appears to have made substantial headway into the Boeheim and K realm of powerful because he's powerful. Fine by me.
 
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